Canadian PhD program offers good stipend but wants full tuition, as I'm an "international student." Normal?

[rasta723]

Hello all,

I am from the US and was recently admitted McGill's Ph.D. program in History. While still waiting to hear from a few more US-based programs, I am giving this offer some seriously consideration: $20k guaranteed in annual stipend for all 4 years plus approx. $4500 per semester when serving as a TA for the department. At the same time, however, I am expected to pay full graduate-level tuition, which is estimated at $16k annually for years 1 and 2, then $4k year 3, onward, once I enter dissertation stage and go into 'part-time' status.

In comparison to the retail cost of tuition at most graduate programs in the US ($40k or more per year if I had pursued law school!), I realize this sum isn't so large, but all my American peers currently at various Ph.D. programs across the US are, stipends aside, not paying a dime for tuition. So I am just wondering if this is a situation faced by other international students getting offers from Canadian schools? Maybe this is normal, especially for the humanities which may not be as well funded as other disciplines? Thanks for any insight you can provide!

Cheers.

[Frozenroses]

Heya,

As far as I am aware this is typical for Canada.. I am sure someone can give you a more detailed answer tho

[juilletmercredi]

Keeping in mind that a history PhD easily can take 6-8 years to complete, we're talking about $48,000-$56,000 or more. Personally, I think tuition remission should be a standard part of any PhD package. However, how much do you really want to go to McGill? Is it a top-ranked program in the field? How likely are you to get a job in the future? Other important questions are how much undergraduate debt do you have? It's generally accepted that you shouldn't take on more debt than you are going to make in salary. A history professor can reasonably expect to make ~$50-60K as an assistant professor, but if you've already got like $30K of debt from undergrad we're talking about $80-90K in debt for a job that doesn't pay that much for years. Also keep in mind that the humanities market is bad right now; there are decent chances that you'll be making $30K as an adjunct for a while.

Whether or not it's normal for Canada should have little bearing on your decision; it's about whether or not you feel like you can afford the debt plus whatever undergrad debt you have, if any. And then if you can afford it, whether the debt is worth it to you for getting a history PhD from McGill.

[rising_star]

First, let me say that it is normal for Canada. Canadian schools don't offer tuition remission, though they do offer scholarships to cover the cost of tuition like what you've been offered. Second, it seems like you should be considering the financial package like this: $13K/year for the first two years then $25K/year for years 3 and 4. But, I'd also say the following. You want to investigate the average time to degree for McGill students (I'm guessing since it's a Canadian program many students come in with a MA so it may not take the 6-8 years that US PhDs in history typically take).

The real question is if McGill is the right program for you to do the research you want to do and receive the advising and mentorship you need.

[Gertrude]

I like the don't go into debt more than you earn rule of thumb.

I'm not sure what is considered "normal" for International PhD admits, but I received an offer from a humanities department at the University of Toronto. They offered five years of tuition, healthcare, a 15k stipend, an assistantship, and entry into a competitive scholarship that would be worth an additional 4-5k per year.

I don't think that you should have to pay tuition for a PhD program, but it probably depends on what offers you get. If you hear from other universities, you may want to try and negotiate.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Gertrude

[Frozenroses]

do you think its actually possible to negotiate more if you have multiple offers tho? How on earth do you approach it tactfully?

[Andsowego]

It is completely normal for a PhD student in Canada to have to pay tuition (domestic students included in that). Not all PhD offers include a tuition waiver (e.g., as a domestic student, my own tuition was only covered for the first of four years). But, your overall offer amount from McGill looks like a pretty good deal. As an aside... something else that caught my eye... you put "international student" in quotations, as if that somehow isn't the case. As an American, you ARE an international student in Canada. It's unfortunate that your high level of tuition will reflect that, but it's reality! (and as a final aside... Congrats on the offer in general from McGill! It's regarded as one of the top universities in Canada, arguably the hardest school to get into, which I'm sure you know since you applied there!).

[TakeruK]

Also here to agree with others that all students in Canada pretty much pay tuition. Some schools may quote your financial package after subtracting out tuition though. McGill has a reputation of lower funding/stipend levels than other schools, but the cost of living in Montreal is also lower than other big cities. Like someone said above, you should really think about this as $13k/yr stipend for years 1-2 and then $25/yr for years 3-4, or an average of $19k/year. $19k/year isn't a huge amount but I think that is about standard for a Canadian grad student without an external award. For comparison: my minimum University funding is $18k/year and our tuition (for domestics!) is $7k/year. Fortunately the minimum funding for my program is at least $24k/year so after tuition, we still take home about $17k/year.

In general, you aren't really penalised as an international student because Canadian universities usually increase the stipend for internationals so that their take-home income is the same as a domestic student. Overall, I'd say you have a decent funding package considering the cost of living in Montreal and that you don't have any external awards. That is, you are not getting tricked into a bad deal, as far as I can tell. You just have to decide whether living on $19k/year is worth pursuing that degree!

[rasta723]

Thanks everyone for your comments!

My primary faculty advisor in the program has said completing the Ph.D. by end of year 4 is realistic and that he will "push [me] to do so." As someone above noted, the average time for a history grad in a US program is 6 years or longer, so I appreciate this aspect of the Canadian system, where those holding Master's have a shortened program. So that is approx. $40k of debt, if I fail to win any of the various grants he has been urging me to apply for once I get on campus in the fall.

I was surprised to learn that McGill offers need-based US federally subsidized loans (like one would be eligible for in the States by filling out the FAFSA). Worst-case scenario as I see things would be earning the Ph.D., failing to land some tenure track job within a year or two (I'm not interested in scraping along as a post-doc much longer than that), then taking a position with the federal government, where most departments have pretty generous student-loan forgiveness incentives when you sign on to civil-service positions. Obviously I do hope to be a professor someday, but know the reality out there!

Cheers