Glass half full?

[bythesea]

After Pandora I'm wary of small golden boxes and their contents.

<-- innocently blinking che vuoi?

[NowMoreSerious]

How do we know we've found the right questions and the right critical objects? And, what are they for Zizek, I wonder? I haven't read enough of him to confidently say

(And, is it just me or does he look perpetually coked-up? )

How do we know? When they are either blasting us with rubber bullets or offering us lots of money or secure positions? Or maybe their compromise: blasting us with bean bags full of lots of money?

[thestage]

The modern university is in fact the means of social control in a world that supports its power structures via appeal to freedom. Wait for the educational bubble to burst and you'll see what I mean.

[koolherc]

The modern university is in fact the means of social control in a world that supports its power structures via appeal to freedom. Wait for the educational bubble to burst and you'll see what I mean.

I would say that public school (K-12) and public healthcare (especially through mind-altering drugs) are much more strongly this than university schooling.

Isn't the teach - publish - tenure track, regardless of the product, itself a fetishized and commodified product?

Aren't we all subscribing to the mechanisms of oppression?

Uh huh, definitely. I think you expanded beyond my focus here a bit, though I definitely agree. What I'm pointing to is knowledge (specifically reason, expertise, and certain cognolinguistic aspects of natural language itself) as a tool of oppression. So, personally, for me, going into the university and arguing against knowledge (by publishing/teaching/etc about that) sounds pretty good to me.* Of course, I figure many of the rest of us professors, especially those that argue for universal truths and such, will be doing the exact opposite. Every posited truth that a professor "knows" (that is, makes up) is directly taking power away from Joe Shmoe on the bus that doesn't "know" it, especially if that truth is used by interested parties to argue about things on a larger, social scale. ---Though we knew this already: religious institutions have always used secret made up knowledge as power.

*Of course, this argument is made for the intellectual to understand and hear. They're the ones who need to hear it---at least this part of it.

But this is all going way off topic. My original thought was simply that the liberal arts might be defended from approximately this position, in being its own form of anti-knowledge-as-end. This might seem strange (that one sort of knowledge might be ends-oriented and another not), but, quite frankly, whenever the state+media is willing to take a position on these kinds of things (as it has), I think this tells us quite a bit and suggests to us where we might at least start looking.

Edited February 19, 2012 by koolherc

[ComeBackZinc]

The university has always been complicit in the capitalist enterprise and it always will be. That doesn't mean that how you operate within that enterprise is unimportant.

In any event, whatever anybody's orientation towards epistemology, the people who control the economic apparatus of the university want to see English (and its funding) justified in certain terms. And that goes for public and private alike. Obama has just proposed a major new assessment regime that is directly tied to federal aid, and there isn't a single college in the country that can afford to turn its back on federal funding. Not Harvard, not Yale, nobody. Moving forward, we can either refuse to use those terms, and find ourselves on the outside looking in, or we can speak to them in those terms while we maintain a skepticism and critical orientation towards that language.

But not playing the game at all just isn't an option anymore. When the feds come to check the numbers, if we just refuse to engage, they'll hire people who will. And those people will have an ideological disposition that's got far worse things in it than belief in truth. The process has already begun at the state level, and now with this "college report card" it's coming to the federal level. I'm sorry if that's unpalatable, but it's just reality.

Edited February 19, 2012 by ComeBackZinc

[ComeBackZinc]

The beauty of it is that nobody who cares about that kind of research or agrees with the ideas behind it has to do it. I would hate if people felt that pressure. I just think that the people who can and do work that way are performing a valuable service if they can help defend the broader discipline of English. (But then again, I would say that, wouldn't I?)

[lolopixie]

I take two weeks off of gradcafe in order to preserve my sanity and miss out on so much.

[Two Espressos]

I take two weeks off of gradcafe in order to preserve my sanity and miss out on so much.

Exactly the same for me: I have to check thegradcafe daily!

[Silent_G]

Also, am I old-fashioned and naive to believe that we can also actually offer some kind of counter-veiling force, rather than just being satisfied with not overtly adding to the mechanisms of oppression?

I would say that public school (K-12) and public healthcare (especially through mind-altering drugs) are much more strongly this than university schooling.

So, personally, for me, going into the university and arguing against knowledge (by publishing/teaching/etc about that) sounds pretty good to me.*

The university has always been complicit in the capitalist enterprise and it always will be. That doesn't mean that how you operate within that enterprise is unimportant.

All of this. I do realize that I'm being idealistic and quite probably incredibly naive, but I want to become a professor to do what I can to subvert the use of a dominant type of knowledge/education as a tool/weapon of oppression. I would say that kind of work would probably be most powerful in an elementary or middle school setting, where children are getting their largest and most potent doses of socialization, but I'm just not cut out for that. So I hope to do what I can with the means I have. If many of us are feeling the same way, dare we hope that we may actually achieve some results?

Of course, first I need to be accepted somewhere.

[koolherc]

^I'm rootin' for ya.

[TripWillis]

Just a suggestion for you guys. A couple of my professors often publish here: http://www.radicalteacher.org/

I agree that the university is essentially a form of containment, but you also get to influence a lot of young minds, even if they've already been brainwashed and there's no hope left.

[antecedent]

All of this. I do realize that I'm being idealistic and quite probably incredibly naive, but I want to become a professor to do what I can to subvert the use of a dominant type of knowledge/education as a tool/weapon of oppression. I would say that kind of work would probably be most powerful in an elementary or middle school setting, where children are getting their largest and most potent doses of socialization, but I'm just not cut out for that. So I hope to do what I can with the means I have. If many of us are feeling the same way, dare we hope that we may actually achieve some results?

Of course, first I need to be accepted somewhere.

I am right there with you.

Are you in school in SF? Do you mind if I ask where? I applied to SFSU for an MA and I'm curious about living/studying in the city and the break down of institution demographics there. Feel free to ignore/PM me if you want

[rawera]

All of this. I do realize that I'm being idealistic and quite probably incredibly naive, but I want to become a professor to do what I can to subvert the use of a dominant type of knowledge/education as a tool/weapon of oppression. I would say that kind of work would probably be most powerful in an elementary or middle school setting, where children are getting their largest and most potent doses of socialization, but I'm just not cut out for that. So I hope to do what I can with the means I have. If many of us are feeling the same way, dare we hope that we may actually achieve some results?

Of course, first I need to be accepted somewhere.

These days, in the US, teachers are the only revolutionaries.

[TripWillis]

These days, in the US, teachers are the only revolutionaries.

Which is sad, since we're not much of a threat to any of the hegemonic powers.

[DorindaAfterThyrsis]

Which is sad, since we're not much of a threat to any of the hegemonic powers.

I dunno....I wield a mean piece of chalk.

[rainy_day]

Just a suggestion for you guys. A couple of my professors often publish here: http://www.radicalteacher.org/

I agree that the university is essentially a form of containment, but you also get to influence a lot of young minds, even if they've already been brainwashed and there's no hope left.

Trip, it's like you read my mind! I've been on the look-out for some teaching resources of just this sort. Thanks!

Edited February 19, 2012 by rainy_day

[Silent_G]

I am right there with you.

Are you in school in SF? Do you mind if I ask where? I applied to SFSU for an MA and I'm curious about living/studying in the city and the break down of institution demographics there. Feel free to ignore/PM me if you want

If you count taking night courses at City College, then technically I am in school. But I was born and raised here, then went away to UCSC for my undergrad, and eventually moved back. I have a friend who got her MA in Queer Cinema at SFSU, and my mom graduated from there many years ago, so I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you might have. As far as living and studying in the city, though, I can tell you that most SFSU students can't afford to actually live in the city and instead find cheaper housing either in Daly City or in the East Bay.

[Silent_G]

^I'm rootin' for ya.

Ditto

[bythesea]

What I'm pointing to is knowledge (specifically reason, expertise, and certain cognolinguistic aspects of natural language itself) as a tool of oppression. So, personally, for me, going into the university and arguing against knowledge (by publishing/teaching/etc about that) sounds pretty good to me.* Of course, I figure many of the rest of us professors, especially those that argue for universal truths and such, will be doing the exact opposite. Every posited truth that a professor "knows" (that is, makes up) is directly taking power away from Joe Shmoe on the bus that doesn't "know" it, especially if that truth is used by interested parties to argue about things on a larger, social scale. ---Though we knew this already: religious institutions have always used secret made up knowledge as power.

*Of course, this argument is made for the intellectual to understand and hear. They're the ones who need to hear it---at least this part of it.

But this is all going way off topic. My original thought was simply that the liberal arts might be defended from approximately this position, in being its own form of anti-knowledge-as-end. This might seem strange (that one sort of knowledge might be ends-oriented and another not), but, quite frankly, whenever the state+media is willing to take a position on these kinds of things (as it has), I think this tells us quite a bit and suggests to us where we might at least start looking.

I hope that liberal arts can be defended from many positions. The anti-knowledge is one; another is a conduit for the voice of Joe Schmoe, who does need to understand and hear that 'truth' is used to concentrate power in the hands of the few. We all do. University work is, by its nature, all-consuming and also de-localizing. I, as an academic, would like to be aware of this and be careful to act in academia and simultaneously act outside of the containment vessel that is the university, i.e. work in the local community, know my POI's articles, but also my university's investment practices; etc. This is Paulo Freire/Augusto Boal's pedagogy/theatre of the oppressed.

Perhaps there is a rhet/lit/comp of the oppressed? Thanks, everyone, for the ideas, and Mr. Trip for the radicalteacher.org link - gonna carry it over to the education side!