Decisions, Decisions

[oseirus]

Oseirus, I'll make a match for you if you serenade me with this song. A classic!

Girl they call me the black Tevye ... that's how well I know this movie .... might even bust out "If I were a Rich Man" and throw in a dougie for a good measure

[crazedandinfused]

I actually met Chaim Topol when he was on his farewell tour in 2009. As if that isn't cool enough, I might be related to him (my great-grandmother was a Topol). We briefly discussed that possibility and I got his autograph on my playbill. Very cool guy.

But with regards to the actual topic of the thread, it's going to be very difficult for me not to sign a contract when I'm doing my visits. I can be very impulsive, so no signing until I get home and discuss it with my better half.

Edited March 14, 2012 by crazedandinfused

[oseirus]

I actually met Chaim Topol when he was on his farewell tour in 2009. As if that isn't cool enough, I might be related to him (my great-grandmother was a Topol). We briefly discussed that possibility and I got his autograph on my playbill. Very cool guy.

But with regards to the actual topic of the thread, it's going to be very difficult for me not to sign a contract when I'm doing my visits. I can be very impulsive, so no signing until I get home and discuss it with my better half.

and now back to the REEEEAAAAAAL topic at hand ... better halves for Oseirus ... j/k ... in all honesty I think you should go with her if she can make the trip ... no better deterrent like a spouse or a parent who will gladly rain on our parade when we want to make that impulse purchase ... if it wasn't for my parents I would have owned EVERY single super soaker ... but thanks to them I've only owned 4

[uhohlemonster]

i got my official funding letter from NYU! eeeep! i'm a happy camper. i'm meeting with my POI tomorrow. i'm going to be so sweaty and nervous! erp

[oseirus]

i got my official funding letter from NYU! eeeep! i'm a happy camper. i'm meeting with my POI tomorrow. i'm going to be so sweaty and nervous! erp

wait is this the same girl who was kvetching but a few days ago about no school wanting her?!?!? Well let's enjoy these moments ... it is in the words of Carroll a most 'frabjous day'!

[uhohlemonster]

I know, I know. I was clearly being paranoid.

[oseirus]

I know, I know. I was clearly being paranoid.

I hope you aren't the super paranoid type ... b/c then I'm gonna be upset I didn't apply to NYU just so I can steal your coffee and see you freak out: "WHO TOOK MY COFFEE?!?!? I just brewed a fresh batch! I know it was you Derrick! And definitely you too Marcy! With those cot'damn beady eyes of yours!"

[diasporabound]

I'm struggling over my decision. Program #1 is private and ranked top-10 nationally. However in my region/subfield, there are only two faculty members at the school (incredibly acclaimed), and the program is very small. I'm concerned about not having a large cohort to draw on and the concerns of attending a small program (i.e. not getting along with your advisor, illness, leaving, etc.). I'm fully confident that I would receive stellar training and would be well-prepared for the job market. However, this program has semi-standard packages, and although they've awarded me an additional fellowship, they are offering substantially less research funding than Program #2.

Program #2 is a large public university and traditionally offers smaller stipends. However, I've received a prestigious fellowship and substantial research funding. The program is generally ranked top 30s. There are many more faculty that I can work with- also rigorous- and a larger cohort. However it's a commuter school and I'm concerned about actually being able to draw on the cohort experience. This program is in a city that costs more to live in than the private university, but the funding package is much larger than that of Program 1 (in the tens of thousands). I am confident that I will receive excellent training at both programs, and neither program at this point is preferred over the other, but I don't want superficial factors to break the tie (i.e. proximity to family and friends, more "fun" options). A number of factors are at play:

-national rank of program -Program 1- will that be preferred on a job market that may not be as familiar with my region's subfield rankings?

-number of professors to work v. the prestige of the professors who are there

-better ranked program with decent funding (full funding, no extras) v. lower ranked program with much better funding

Thanks very much for your responses!

[oseirus]

I'm struggling over my decision. Program #1 is private and ranked top-10 nationally. However in my region/subfield, there are only two faculty members at the school (incredibly acclaimed), and the program is very small. I'm concerned about not having a large cohort to draw on and the concerns of attending a small program (i.e. not getting along with your advisor, illness, leaving, etc.). I'm fully confident that I would receive stellar training and would be well-prepared for the job market. However, this program has semi-standard packages, and although they've awarded me an additional fellowship, they are offering substantially less research funding than Program #2.

Program #2 is a large public university and traditionally offers smaller stipends. However, I've received a prestigious fellowship and substantial research funding. The program is generally ranked top 30s. There are many more faculty that I can work with- also rigorous- and a larger cohort. However it's a commuter school and I'm concerned about actually being able to draw on the cohort experience. This program is in a city that costs more to live in than the private university, but the funding package is much larger than that of Program 1 (in the tens of thousands). I am confident that I will receive excellent training at both programs, and neither program at this point is preferred over the other, but I don't want superficial factors to break the tie (i.e. proximity to family and friends, more "fun" options). A number of factors are at play:

-national rank of program -Program 1- will that be preferred on a job market that may not be as familiar with my region's subfield rankings?

-number of professors to work v. the prestige of the professors who are there

-better ranked program with decent funding (full funding, no extras) v. lower ranked program with much better funding

Thanks very much for your responses!

I know this is going to sound callow, but put the money aside for a minute and ask yourself which school do you feel you will be able to work best in and set yourself up for a decent future. At the end of the day, if school X offers you all the money in the world and you can't finish a PhD then what it is the point? Conversely, if school Y gives you a little less money but sets you up for the future, look to your future.

[Sigaba]

I'm struggling over my decision.

Maybe it would help if you were to make a features and benefits matrix for your two choices in which you assigned point values to those elements that you consider the most desirable in a graduate program. Then rate each program's ability to meet those preferences. Then, multiply the point values by each school's ratings, add up the numbers, and see what you get.

I would be curious to know the following.

• Would program 2 allow you to have one or two professors from program 1 sit on any of your committees?
  
• What is the basis of your confidence that you'll receive "stellar training" at program 1?
  

[TMP]

What I've heard from search committees is that they're looking to hire YOU, not your program. They want your work, your excellent training, and personality. They want to see a very productive scholar. So choose a place where you think your work can really thrive and that may mean choosing somewhere where the funding is deeper for your research (additional summer support? Is there an additional year option for dissertation writing?) and more faculty members for you to take coursework with and put on your committee. LORs trump program name.

[oseirus]

What I've heard from search committees is that they're looking to hire YOU, not your program. They want your work, your excellent training, and personality. They want to see a very productive scholar. So choose a place where you think your work can really thrive and that may mean choosing somewhere where the funding is deeper for your research (additional summer support? Is there an additional year option for dissertation writing?) and more faculty members for you to take coursework with and put on your committee. LORs trump program name.

The ONLY addendum I would add to this insightful advise is that if you aren't interested in working in academia then this might be for you.

[TMP]

uh, I do mean if you want to be in academia...my particular source of info for SCs' wishes were from SLACs and R1s..

If you DON'T want to be in academia, then choose a brand-name program that's more recognizable to non-academic employers.

[pudewen]

I'm struggling over my decision. Program #1 is private and ranked top-10 nationally. However in my region/subfield, there are only two faculty members at the school (incredibly acclaimed), and the program is very small. I'm concerned about not having a large cohort to draw on and the concerns of attending a small program (i.e. not getting along with your advisor, illness, leaving, etc.). I'm fully confident that I would receive stellar training and would be well-prepared for the job market. However, this program has semi-standard packages, and although they've awarded me an additional fellowship, they are offering substantially less research funding than Program #2.

Program #2 is a large public university and traditionally offers smaller stipends. However, I've received a prestigious fellowship and substantial research funding. The program is generally ranked top 30s. There are many more faculty that I can work with- also rigorous- and a larger cohort. However it's a commuter school and I'm concerned about actually being able to draw on the cohort experience. This program is in a city that costs more to live in than the private university, but the funding package is much larger than that of Program 1 (in the tens of thousands). I am confident that I will receive excellent training at both programs, and neither program at this point is preferred over the other, but I don't want superficial factors to break the tie (i.e. proximity to family and friends, more "fun" options). A number of factors are at play:

-national rank of program -Program 1- will that be preferred on a job market that may not be as familiar with my region's subfield rankings?

-number of professors to work v. the prestige of the professors who are there

-better ranked program with decent funding (full funding, no extras) v. lower ranked program with much better funding

Thanks very much for your responses!

Program 1 sounds exactly like the program I turned down last year, in every single detail (private top 10 department, cheap city, only 2 faculty in my field but both very well known, additional fellowship money: it almost makes me think it's the same place). My program 2, though, was somewhat different, because in addition to having more faculty, it was also a top tier program overall and had a faculty member whose work (and the training he could provide) fit more perfectly with my interests - this last point really being the reason I chose it in the end. Anyway, just warning that the similarity between your program 1 and mine will probably lead me to project my situation last year onto yours.

Basically, to deal with the factors you say you're thinking about.

1. Since you must be in small field, if a major university only has two faculty in your area, chances are the vast majority of places you apply for jobs will not have that great a sense of quality of departments in your field. So to the extent that department reputation matters to your job prospects, program 1 is better. But I think, in the end, this is a sort of minor factor.

2. I think, honestly, number of professors is less important than which place has the people you most want to work with. Two faculty members who will provide good support for your research are, in the end, more valuable than 5 or 6 who are in your general area. There are other ways to get input from a wider range of faculty. For instance, are there other nearby universities to program 1 who have faculty in your area? If so, your advisors will probably know them and be happy to help put you in touch, in order to use them as resources. Of course, that all said, perhaps program 2 has faculty who are a better fit, in which case, choose program 2.

3. Funding should only matter to the extent that you are getting enough to live on and do the work you need to do. So as long as, at program 1, you can live reasonably comfortably on your stipend without taking out loans, I wouldn't worry about stipend amount. As for research funding, talk to other grad students in your field at program 1. Are they getting enough funding to do the research they want to do? If so, don't worry about it. Now if program 1's stipend is really too small to live on easily (though I don't think this is true at any top-10 private university departments) everything changes, but otherwise, this should be a relatively minor concern.

The one thing worth worrying about due to program 1's size is your fellow grad students. I've definitely found one of the advantages of a larger program to be that I have more opportunities to learn from my colleagues and be pointed in useful directions by them. If there are only a couple people working in your area at program 1, that could be isolating and frustrating. Of course, on the other hand, I probably would have more productive relationships with people outside my field if there were fewer people within my field at my program, so there is a trade-off.

Anyway, in the end, I think the most important thing is fit for your research interests and your ability to develop as a scholar. Personally, there are still things I regret about passing up by not choosing my equivalent of your program 1. I think I made the right choice, but that is because I chose, in the end, on the basis of my ability ot get the training I needed, not simpler metrics like program size.

[sankd]

uh, I do mean if you want to be in academia...my particular source of info for SCs' wishes were from SLACs and R1s..

If you DON'T want to be in academia, then choose a brand-name program that's more recognizable to non-academic employers.

At the same time, there is still a weird segment of departments that want that program name - with the assumption that the candidate must be adequate coming from such a place - over the individual quality of the applicant. That was obvious at some of the AHA panels on the future of the profession. The academy still has a lot of bad habits.

Also, if you don't want to be in academia, connections always help! In fact, they probably help a lot more than in search committee/department politicking.

[uhohlemonster]

guys, NYU is tempting me with $$$ for summer language work THIS SUMMER in israel. before i'm even matriculated. i'm dying. it feels like i'm being seduced.

yesterday i met with my POI and it went okay. it was not FABULOUS but it was totally fine. then i ran into two of my former professors, one on the subway and one at the cafe where i was meeting my 8th grader to help her start her bat mitzvah sermon writing. it was such good fortune to run into them because they really really helped me see clearer. i can't choose rutgers (even if they become a real choice) just because of one person. it's relying too much on her staying there and also on the idea that we will definitely work well together. NYU has the people, the resources, the funding, and the students. it really cannot be beat when it comes to studying israel. so i think i've made my decision either way.

i feel very lucky to have these former professors who help me so much. their wise words are so valid and were so incredibly needed at the moment that i ran into them. it was a miraculous chain of events.

all that being said, i'm off to LA tomorrow-next sunday for work, and I don't think i'm going to do anything about grad schools through that time. see if that helps me see more clearly and what not. so i will not notify nyu or rutgers until the 26th.

[Simple Twist of Fate]

I feel like I'm edging ever-closer to a decision. In fact, I've been telling people that I'm "probably" going to be going to x university, to sort of test out the idea of it (if that makes sense). So far so good. If it wasn't for damned wait lists, I think I could wrap this up in the next week.

[oseirus]

You silly people! Pay me a king's ransom & I'll make the decision for you ... I am a newly minted grad schooll applicant consultant

[Simple Twist of Fate]

Hope everyone had a great St. Patrick's Day weekend.

Here's a situation...

One of the universities that's wait listed me has made it clear that there's a very strong chance of admission. I touched base with the DGS this week, and was again informed that an offer is "likely" but wasn't definitive - suggesting that I might need to wait for a few more weeks. That's fine - I don't really mind waiting. However, my current roommate is driving to the same campus next weekend to visit their law school. I'd like to tag along, but I don't know if it would really be productive to go since a) there is absolutely no promise that I will be admitted (or if admitted, given funding) and I'm not sure what the school/advisor would think of this.

I guess I'm not really looking for advice. Wait lists are just awkward. If I'm accepted at the last minute somewhere, which seems entirely possible, I may not have time to make an informed decision. Oh well, at least I have a couple of great options already.

[oseirus]

Hope everyone had a great St. Patrick's Day weekend.

Here's a situation...

One of the universities that's wait listed me has made it clear that there's a very strong chance of admission. I touched base with the DGS this week, and was again informed that an offer is "likely" but wasn't definitive - suggesting that I might need to wait for a few more weeks. That's fine - I don't really mind waiting. However, my current roommate is driving to the same campus next weekend to visit their law school. I'd like to tag along, but I don't know if it would really be productive to go since a) there is absolutely no promise that I will be admitted (or if admitted, given funding) and I'm not sure what the school/advisor would think of this.

I guess I'm not really looking for advice. Wait lists are just awkward. If I'm accepted at the last minute somewhere, which seems entirely possible, I may not have time to make an informed decision. Oh well, at least I have a couple of great options already.

I would still go and check out the place ... it can't hurt can it? Also would you be willing to go if they accepted you?

[Simple Twist of Fate]

Also would you be willing to go if they accepted you?

If you'd asked me a month ago, I'd have said yes, but now I'm leaning another direction. So you're right, I do want to get as much information as possible.

[Nordicllama]

Re: If you'd asked

I say go check it out, STF. If they're saying it's likely and it's the school I think you're talking about then you don't want to pass that up without consideration. Not that my vote counts for much, but I say do what you have to do to make an informed decision. It's the next 6-7 years of your life as well as your career at stake.

[oseirus]

If you'd asked me a month ago, I'd have said yes, but now I'm leaning another direction. So you're right, I do want to get as much information as possible.

Just be careful about what that information will bring ... there is a chance it will totally take you back to square one ... kind of where I find myself ... questioning things and waffling worse than a lying politician trying to explain the three secret offshore accounts

[virmundi]

If you'd asked me a month ago, I'd have said yes, but now I'm leaning another direction. So you're right, I do want to get as much information as possible.

Yes -- getting as much information as possible is crucial, as others have noted. If it does, indeed, make your decision-making very hard (if it does in fact come down to an acceptance) than this means that you have strong contenders to choose among -- a good thing, right?

[Simple Twist of Fate]

Thanks - and sorry about your Seminoles, oseirus.

I remain slightly concerned about the awkwardness of not being admitted but still wanting to look around - but I sent a very polite, tentative feeler out to the DGS, so we'll see