SFS/SIPA/Fletcher/Maxwell and others: Financial Aid?

[jflorezi]

Hi everybody! As most of you here, I'm waiting to hear back from SFS and SIPA regarding my MSFS/MIA applications. However, being accepted is just another obstacle I have to overcome in order to go to graduate school. I could only attend any of the colleges mentioned on the title if I get substantial financial aid.

Are you familiar with their financial aid policies? How stingy/generous they are? If you attended/are attending, did you receive a scholarship/assistantship/fellowship?

Btw, I'm a foreign student, applying straight from undergrad, but with over 3 years of international exposure (living, studying, working).

Thanks everybody!!

[fenderpete]

Can you clarify what you mean by "3yrs of international exposure" and how that fits in with "straight from undergrad"? Not to sound harsh, but there's a big difference between living/volunteering abroad and a full-time salaried position.

From what I've heard SIPA can be decent if they want you enough, while Georgetown are pretty stingy.

[jflorezi]

Can you clarify what you mean by "3yrs of international exposure" and how that fits in with "straight from undergrad"? Not to sound harsh, but there's a big difference between living/volunteering abroad and a full-time salaried position.

From what I've heard SIPA can be decent if they want you enough, while Georgetown are pretty stingy.

Sure I can! Whilst studying as an undergrad I lived in three different countries (UK, Australia, the US, plus my home country -Colombia) for over 3 years. All I did was related to the programs I applied to; no French cousine classes hehe (kidding). So, basically I studied and did some volunteer work (internship), abroad during that time. ;-)

Edited February 20, 2012 by jflorezi

[yo_yo86]

Not to sound rude (my numbers are fairly similar), but based on your numbers and limited professional experience I doubt you would get much funding from Fletcher, SIPA, or SFS (SIPA does give more money out to second year students, so there is a chance you could get some...eventually). Your best bet is Maxwell. However, I could be wrong, and since you have already applied you'll find out in the next six to eight weeks. No reason to stress about funding until you get in, anyway.

Edited February 20, 2012 by yo_yo86

[wasistdas]

My understanding is that funding at any of the schools in DC is rare. Schools outside of DC/Ivies use funding as a recruiting tool to steal away candidates that are perhaps above the schools profile. Sometimes this still isn't as helfpul as it sounds. For example, I received approximately 50% scholarship in tuition from a school, but because the cost of living is so high, it would still be about $30k a year in loans. There are a lot of other threads on the pros/cons of that amount in loans, so I wont go there, but I wouldn't count on a significant enough amount of financial aid coming from the DC/Ivies to make a significant difference.

[fenderpete]

I think the most important thing here is how you've related your experience in your personal statement. Grad programs recruit across a really broad spectrum of experience levels and you could well be a perfect fit for one of your POIs.

However, do bear in mind that all of those programs are insanely competitive, and that people who have much more experience than all of us in this forum routinely fail to get admitted. If it doesn't work out this year, take some time and build some more experience in developing countries. Where you work matters almost equally with what you do/achieve while you're there. A lot of the grad profiles on the programs you listed can reel off a list of two or three continents they've worked on, and I'm not just talking Europe and the US

All that being said, good luck with the applications and financial aid!

[MYRNIST]

My understanding is that funding at any of the schools in DC is rare. Schools outside of DC/Ivies use funding as a recruiting tool to steal away candidates that are perhaps above the schools profile. Sometimes this still isn't as helfpul as it sounds. For example, I received approximately 50% scholarship in tuition from a school, but because the cost of living is so high, it would still be about $30k a year in loans. There are a lot of other threads on the pros/cons of that amount in loans, so I wont go there, but I wouldn't count on a significant enough amount of financial aid coming from the DC/Ivies to make a significant difference.

You have sources or numbers for this understanding? Not attacking, serious question. I'd be very interested to see it, because this doesn't pass the smell test.

(merit) Funding = a candidate's perceived quality relative to the school's median applicant.

While some of the non DC/Ivy institutions are fine schools, I don't think it's controversial to say as a whole, they are not as good as the elites. So naturally the competition for financial aid is going to be a lot more fierce at the elite schools, but that doesn't mean they are stingy. My money would be on most MPA-IR schools having relatively similar financial aid stats, aka Ivy X and Southeastern State University both give out an average of 50% tuition scholarship to their top 20% applicants (just making those numbers up.) It's just that at Ivy X, you need to be a rockstar compared to elite candidates, whereas at Southeastern State you have to be a rockstar relative to a non-elite applicant pool. If you didn't get aid at a DC/Ivy and did at a "lesser" school, that doesn't mean one is stingy and one is generous, just means you're a fish changing the size of the pool it's swimming in. Go back through old admittance threads on this forum, and there are plenty of people getting great scholarships from DCs and Ivies.

That's not to even mention that DC/Ivies typically have a larger endowment, more secondary and named scholarships, place more people in 3rd party scholarships (PMF, PRISP, etc.)

With all that said, I could be totally wrong - hence wanting to see some hard facts on it.

[wasistdas]

@myrnist: I don't have any evidence other than anecdotal evidence from peers, what I have seen on this blog, what I have picked up off the various schools website. For the MA programs, I have seen very few people with significant funding. Add on to this the substantially higher cost of living in these metro areas, and suddenly even with a substantial scholarship you are left holding a large student loan payment. Of course, the catch is that many of the best internships are in these metro areas. I guess the biggest difference is exactly how far your scholarship goes. A $20k scholarship at Georgetown makes a good sized dent in the cost, but you will still be walking away with a lot of debt. A $20k scholarship at UT-Austin and we are talking something substantial. Assessing the value is, of course, up to the individual.

Looking at Georgetown SFS and UT-Austin LBJ: The standard tuition and cost of living for LBJ are already considerably lower than SFS, but so to is the prestige of the program. On the SFS website, it says that they award 20-30% of their students scholarships/fellowships, with a maximum scholarship of $20k. Say they admit 100 people into their program, and give full scholarships to that 30%, giving us $600k in scholarships, best case scenario. Most students are not receiving that 100% tuition. On LBJ's site, they say they give $1 million in fellowships/scholarships. $1million in Austin logically goes a lot further than $1million in DC. These aren't direct comparisons as LBJ is annoyingly vague, but can still be marginally useful. Also available to LBJ as a public school is the out of state tuition waver which immediately makes a significant impact for the student without showing up in their scholarship information.

Fletcher vs. UCSD: Directly from the Fletcher site: "Fletcher scholarships typically range from $4,000 per academic year up to full tuition. The middle 50 percent of scholarships awarded are in the $7,000 to $18,000 range. Please note that Fletcher offers very few full tuition scholarships, and assistance to support living expenses is not available." So, half of admitted students receiving a scholarship may expect that money to cover between a 20%-50% tuition based on a tuition of $37k, which, while very generous, leaves the student with a lot of debt after accounting for the high cost of living/tuition. UC San Diego says they provide $1.2 million in scholarships to 25% of their incoming students. With an in-state tuition of just $18k (half the cost of Fletcher even when paying the whole shebang), that $1.2 million goes a LONG ways. Cost of living in San Diego isn't cheap though, especially if you live by the school.

GW Elliott: 20% of admitted students receive fellowships/scholarships, but those are not all full scholarships.

TAMU Bush School: Average first year scholarship of $5k plus $1k "technology scholarship" to buy a laptop. Plus students get in-state tuition ($11k) saving you $7k a year.

I guess it is unfair to call the top-tier schools "stingy." Rather, one would need to get a 50%-100% scholarship at the top schools to match the full tuition price of the less expensive not top 10 schools. I guess it is a bit like someone offering to take $10k off the price of a ferrari or $10k off the price of the honda civic. You are getting the civic for almost free, but you are also definitely not getting a ferrari.

Of course, the whole situation becomes a lot more convoluted when factoring % of aid going to Ph.D. students and external fellowship opportunities that are generally associated with the top tier schools. Your points on the competitiveness of the scholarships ring true, but, regardless of this, the total cost of attendance after scholarships are considered at top tier schools compared to those from lower tier schools (sometimes significantly lower) is disproportional.

This post is very long, convoluted, at best unhelpful and at worst a waste of time, but it's the best I could do while eating lunch.

Edited February 20, 2012 by godlessgael

[MYRNIST]

post

No, it makes sense. You're essentially arguing :

1. since non-elite schools cost so much less, their scholarships give more "bang for the buck"

2. non-elite schools have more money reserved for scholarships

3. public schools = in-state tuition

4. non-coastal locations = lower coast of living (obviously not applicable for a lot of programs).

A lot of really important factors left out though (not your fault, schools are awful at giving detailed info on financial aid). A big factor to consider is class size, since it obviously affects how dispersed the scholarships are. TAMU has well over 500 students - Yale has like 30. Distribution between MA and PHD students, if applicable. TA positions available. etc. etc.

Now if you'll excuse me I have some goats to sacrifice to Adcomminus, the dark god of graduate admissions - once He grants me a ticket to WWS in exchange for my eternal soul, all this fin-aid talk will be irrelevant. Yeah, my financial plan is a bit unorthodox.

Edited February 20, 2012 by MYRNIST

[wasistdas]

Now if you'll excuse me I have some goats to sacrifice to Adcomminus, the dark god of graduate admissions - once He grants me a ticket to WWS in exchange for my eternal soul, all this fin-aid talk will be irrelevant. Yeah, my financial plan is a bit unorthodox.

Unorthodox? I didn't know there was another way. I specifically remember in the SAIS instructions something about Adcomminus being a fickle overlord.

[fenderpete]

No, it makes sense. You're essentially arguing :

1. since non-elite schools cost so much less, their scholarships give more "bang for the buck"

2. non-elite schools have more money reserved for scholarships

3. public schools = in-state tuition

4. non-coastal locations = lower coast of living (obviously not applicable for a lot of programs).

A lot of really important factors left out though (not your fault, schools are awful at giving detailed info on financial aid). A big factor to consider is class size, since it obviously affects how dispersed the scholarships are. TAMU has well over 500 students - Yale has like 30. Distribution between MA and PHD students, if applicable. TA positions available. etc. etc.

Now if you'll excuse me I have some goats to sacrifice to Adcomminus, the dark god of graduate admissions - once He grants me a ticket to WWS in exchange for my eternal soul, all this fin-aid talk will be irrelevant. Yeah, my financial plan is a bit unorthodox.

Sorry MYRNIST, I've already offered up a burnt offering of a fattened calf on a pyre of old issues of Foreign Policy for a WWS spot

[meichen_l]

to jflorezi

as mentioned by some of the posts above, the schools you mentioned are not generous about FA, and I heard this is especially true for international students... I'm from China and honestly from the admission record I have seen for the last three years, most of chinese students who got in SIPA, SAIS, and other "elite" IR schools got less than 10k/year. There are rumors ( and yes rumors! ) in intl student circle that if you request FA, your chances of admission would be lower... (again this is just rumor.. you will figure it out soon LOL...) anyway...

the GOOD NEWS for you, though, is that judging from previous admission records, "elite" IR schools seem to be more lenient to intl students in terms of professional work exp.. so i think your lack for work exp (which is FATAL for domestic applicants) may not damage you as much as some above posts had suggested.

Anyway, GOOD LUCK with admission and FA

[jflorezi]

to jflorezi

as mentioned by some of the posts above, the schools you mentioned are not generous about FA, and I heard this is especially true for international students... I'm from China and honestly from the admission record I have seen for the last three years, most of chinese students who got in SIPA, SAIS, and other "elite" IR schools got less than 10k/year. There are rumors ( and yes rumors! ) in intl student circle that if you request FA, your chances of admission would be lower... (again this is just rumor.. you will figure it out soon LOL...) anyway...

the GOOD NEWS for you, though, is that judging from previous admission records, "elite" IR schools seem to be more lenient to intl students in terms of professional work exp.. so i think your lack for work exp (which is FATAL for domestic applicants) may not damage you as much as some above posts had suggested.

Anyway, GOOD LUCK with admission and FA

Thanks meichen_l. We'll just have to wait and see. Just to be clear, I'm not expecting 40k on financial aid (hehe); I'm just wondering how much these schools would usually give to international applicants. About the experience requirement... for some reason I believe that what they are looking is relevant experience -not necessarily work experience-; it just doesn't make sense to me that somebody who was the district manager for KFC in Northern Virginia (just picked a random place and job, no offense intended) would "score" more points on his/her application than somebody who has had more IR relevant experience, such as an internship at an embassy, research experience, living abroad (but by all means not just eating and paying rent abroad: doing something actually related to the field!), etc. Probably I'm just wrong

[charlotte_asia]

; it just doesn't make sense to me that somebody who was the district manager for KFC in Northern Virginia (just picked a random place and job, no offense intended) would "score" more points on his/her application than somebody who has had more IR relevant experience, such as an internship at an embassy, research experience, living abroad (but by all means not just eating and paying rent abroad: doing something actually related to the field!), etc. Probably I'm just wrong

Working at the district manager for KFC is not the type of experience previous posters are referring to. Living and studying abroad certainly will be a boon to your application, no doubt. Between you and an equal candidate whose only work experience is at KFC and who hasn't lived/interned abroad, you would have a leg up. Still, nothing can compare to full-time post-graduate work experience in the field of IR. That's what MYRNIST and others are referring to.

[jflorezi]

Indeed, that's why I wrote "relevant experience."

Edited February 21, 2012 by jflorezi

[MYRNIST]

I hope schools have different WE requirements for different concentrations... as a Security Studies applicant, I feel it is vastly harder to get direct work experience in the field, as compared to applicants for int-dev, human rights, etc. There are a million different NGOs all over the world for those (more places to get hired) and relatively low barriers to entry (no security clearance, no government hiring process, etc.) Meanwhile, JSOC and intel agencies are not exactly keen on picking up 23 year olds.

The above is definitely a self-serving viewpoint, because direct work experience is the only possible weakness in my profile. I have post-college work experience that is definitely applicable to the field (analytical positions, overseas, etc.) but haven't directly worked for any of the organizations I really want to (hence the whole point of going to grad school...) Hope I don't get dinged for that, since as I said, there are very high barriers to entry in the field. Not that I worry about it or anything... *facetwitch*

Edited February 21, 2012 by MYRNIST

[fenderpete]

The above is definitely a self-serving viewpoint, because direct work experience is the only possible weakness in my profile. I have post-college work experience that is definitely applicable to the field (analytical positions, overseas, etc.) but haven't directly worked for any of the organizations I really want to (hence the whole point of going to grad school...) Hope I don't get dinged for that, since as I said, there are very high barriers to entry in the field. Not that I worry about it or anything... *facetwitch*

Nah I don't really think they'll be expecting you to have worked for Jane's or the Pentagon at this point. Relevant critical thinking and analytical experience is where it's at. Although I would probably have expressed an undying love of Keifer Sutherland and 24 in my personal statement if I were you.

IDEV is the other end of the scale, unless you've singlehandedly eradicated malaria it's a bit tough to break the threshold - there are so many Mickey Mouse orgs. out there it can be hard to stand out.

[charlotte_asia]

Sorry if my post came off the wrong way, jflorezi. Just saw I got down-arrowed for it. It was intended to agree with you that your international experience will absolutely put you in front of others without relevant IR experience. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.

[Helpplease123]

Sorry if my post came off the wrong way, jflorezi. Just saw I got down-arrowed for it. It was intended to agree with you that your international experience will absolutely put you in front of others without relevant IR experience. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.

I don't see why you would get down-arrowed for your comments. Clearly all your point was (and on this I completely agree) that there are a whole heap of applicants with full time AND relevant experience...and that while the OP has a leg up (possibly) on KFC manager (although good management experience which is always important...), he will be a notch below those with relevant, full-time, post undergrad work. Some programs rank this application aspect more highly than others, I have seen on several websites people saying that those straight out of undergrad make up 5% of the current class. At this point, all we can do is just wait.

[jflorezi]

Sorry if my post came off the wrong way, jflorezi. Just saw I got down-arrowed for it. It was intended to agree with you that your international experience will absolutely put you in front of others without relevant IR experience. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.

Not at all charlotte_asia, you need not apologise. I agree with you on the IR experience; is better to have it than not to. I was just wondering about the financial aid issue and your answer is absolutely right. Nonetheless, I think my application is competitive at the straight-from-undergrad level/group; I'm competing for a spot among the 5% of applicants that are accepted with no professional experience.

Edited February 24, 2012 by jflorezi

[charlotte_asia]

I think it is competitive too. I covet your GRE scores

[jflorezi]

I think it is competitive too. I covet your GRE scores

Haha thanks, though they are not the best

Btw, to which unis/programs have you applied to?

[Hanson's Fan]

Int'l students get significant funding at MIIS, CMU for sure.. But it also depends on which country one is from.

[meichen_l]

yep, really depends where you come from... i can assure you chinese students rarely get more than 15k funds nowadays.... sigh