Those with great offers: pls withdraw from second-tier schools

[goodluck]

Congratulations on those who have got great offers so far! And, if possible, please withdraw from second-tier schools that have not accepted people yet. This will not harm you since you have already got much better offers, but will benefit lots of applicants who have nothing now.

If you can withdraw early, you will create chances for those less competitive applicants. Thanks for all the kindness!

God bless those who help others!

[Megan]

OK, I have been holding back comment on all of these sorts of requests because I know what it feels like to feel nervous and terrified and desperate to get an offer, and I know it's worse when the whole world is crowing about how they can't decide between their five offers at every Ivy League department. I know because I was rejected everywhere last time around, and at many places this time around. I am sympathetic, I really am, but these sorts of requests and comments are really very frustrating.

People on this board aren't jerks, for the most part. If they are REALLY sure about their decision, they have already withdrawn their acceptances to other schools. Additionally, and more importantly, them withdrawing does not help you at all. Schools factor the percentage of kids who get better offers into their admissions process, so the fact that Y person is going to decline school X is factored in already to the process. It could POTENTIALLY speed up the process, if you are going to be on the wait list or something, but it shouldn't impact the outcome either way.

When people make these sorts of requests what you really do is make people feel guilty for going through the process in their own way. You also make the focus of other people's celebration and accomplishment about what that celebration and accomplishment can do for YOU, instead of about the fact that in this absolutely brutal vicious game, they have had a success that we should all be celebrating. Yeah, the waiting is hard. Yeah, it's scary not knowing what's going on next year, and everybody on this board is sympathetic to that kind of stress. Yeah, somebody who has ABSOLUTELY decided and is still holding on to their offers is being an asshole. I don't think that person exists on this board.

I still have GW outstanding. I may or may not get in. If I do I will, most likely, decline the offer to go to NYU. I will, however, not accept an offer from any school without visiting. Until I visit NYU and decide that I love it as much as I think I will, I'm going to stay on the wait list at UNC and I'm going to stay in the running for GW. Also, if I got great money at GW, and loved it when I visited, I might accept it. I think fit is the most crucial thing. I love UNC's program, so I could really see that happening too. That's my process. If somebody on this board isn't turning down their offers yet, it's because they haven't finally decided where they are going yet. These types of requests and posts do nothing except dampen the excitement of people who deserve to be excited.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Megan

[Jwnich1]

OK, I have been holding back comment on all of these sorts of requests because I know what it feels like to feel nervous and terrified and desperate to get an offer, and I know it's worse when the whole world is crowing about how they can't decide between their five offers at every Ivy League department. I know because I was rejected everywhere last time around, and at many places this time around. I am sympathetic, I really am, but these sorts of requests and comments are really very frustrating.

People on this board aren't jerks, for the most part. If they are REALLY sure about their decision, they have already withdrawn their acceptances to other schools. Additionally, and more importantly, them withdrawing does not help you at all. Schools factor the percentage of kids who get better offers into their admissions process, so the fact that Y person is going to decline school X is factored in already to the process. It could POTENTIALLY speed up the process, if you are going to be on the wait list or something, but it shouldn't impact the outcome either way.

When people make these sorts of requests what you really do is make people feel guilty for going through the process in their own way. You also make the focus of other people's celebration and accomplishment about what that celebration and accomplishment can do for YOU, instead of about the fact that in this absolutely brutal vicious game, they have had a success that we should all be celebrating. Yeah, the waiting is hard. Yeah, it's scary not knowing what's going on next year, and everybody on this board is sympathetic to that kind of stress. Yeah, somebody who has ABSOLUTELY decided and is still holding on to their offers is being an asshole. I don't think that person exists on this board.

I still have GW outstanding. I may or may not get in. If I do I will, most likely, decline the offer to go to NYU. I will, however, not accept an offer from any school without visiting. Until I visit NYU and decide that I love it as much as I think I will, I'm going to stay on the wait list at UNC and I'm going to stay in the running for GW. Also, if I got great money at GW, and loved it when I visited, I might accept it. I think fit is the most crucial thing. I love UNC's program, so I could really see that happening too. That's my process. If somebody on this board isn't turning down their offers yet, it's because they haven't finally decided where they are going yet. These types of requests and posts do nothing except dampen the excitement of people who deserve to be excited.

I completely agree! Rank of school isnt everything - the work / reputation of potential advisors matters a lot - especially when dealing with very specific issues. As Megan said, visiting is also important. (that top tier school in the middle of a city that accepted you may not be the place for you, if you discover your asthma acts up around lots of car exhaust....)

Constantly bugging people to withdraw apps won't help. If you're on a wait list, and they withdraw eventually - you'll get your letter. If you were going to be accepted or rejected, this will happen regardless of others decisions.

I wish everyone the best, and implore you to be respectful of others feelings. We just concluded (or are concluding) a tough, stressful period. I am sure the vast majority won't hoard offers until April 15.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Jwnich1

[RWBG]

I agree with the two posters immediately before me. I will be turning down three of my four offers shortly after my last campus visit (i.e. some time near the end of March).

[Ironheel!!]

You pay the application fee and put time into the application you deserve to receive a decision! I'm waiting on the types of schools you describe but I'll be more than happy to come off a waitlist in March if it comes down to that. Whats next, pleas for people whohave secured admissions at at 50ish school to withdraw from a 70ish school. Also, remember, people may be limited by location (sucks, but it can play a factor-it does for me in a small way) also, as we have seen, not every great school has great funding. Some of the mid-tier actually fund quite well and may be helpful for some to negotiate better packages. But I still stand by the thought that you put the time and effort into each application, get a result and then make a decision!

Edited February 23, 2012 by Ironheel!!

[potbellypete]

There is no guarantee that if someone turns down a spot, they will take someone off a waitlist. The number they accept is based on historical yields. If those yields are off, then they will accept more.

[potbellypete]

However, if you want to withdraw from say....I dont know....Yale....and put a plug in for me, I can't say that I'd mind

[brent09]

This is a sticky issue. Obviously nobody should feel pressured to give up options until they're ready. On the other end, the OP is correct insofar as we shouldn't hold onto schools just because we can.

I use a method that I call the jellybean test: You have 10 jellybeans to distribute amongst your offers, where more beans == higher preference. If a program doesn't get any jellybeans in the test, cut them loose. They're not in contention for your services. I've declined two offers this week, and will likely decline two more next week. I won't make a final decision about where to go until after visiting, but I know that I'm not (for example) going to Maryland under any circumstance, so I can (should?) decline that offer.

In the strictly normative sense, we've earned the acceptances we've gotten, and have the right to hold onto those offers until April 15. But if you find yourself holding onto an offer because it's fun being wooed, because it makes you feel special or just because you can, then I would argue it's time to decline an offer or two and (potentially) let others in.

[Megan]

This is a sticky issue. Obviously nobody should feel pressured to give up options until they're ready. On the other end, the OP is correct insofar as we shouldn't hold onto schools just because we can.

I use a method that I call the jellybean test: You have 10 jellybeans to distribute amongst your offers, where more beans == higher preference. If a program doesn't get any jellybeans in the test, cut them loose. They're not in contention for your services. I've declined two offers this week, and will likely decline two more next week. I won't make a final decision about where to go until after visiting, but I know that I'm not (for example) going to Maryland under any circumstance, so I can (should?) decline that offer.

In the strictly normative sense, we've earned the acceptances we've gotten, and have the right to hold onto those offers until April 15. But if you find yourself holding onto an offer because it's fun being wooed, because it makes you feel special or just because you can, then I would argue it's time to decline an offer or two and (potentially) let others in.

I acknowledged in my post that this made you kind of an asshole, but I also don't know anybody either here or IRL who is actually doing this. I mean, these kinds of pleas would be reasonable if there was some evidence that there were a bunch of greedy grad cafe-ers sitting around giggling maniacally over their run on the CHYMPS and just waiting until April 15th for fun, but I just don't think that's what's happening. People who haven't turned down offers for the most part have a good reason, and posts pleading with them to do so more quickly when it is very unlikely to have any impact on your status in the first place just make people who are being completely reasonable feel like they are doing something wrong, and pressures them to make decisions in what may, for them, be an irresponsible way. So, my point isn't that you shouldn't turn down offers if you are SURE you aren't going to take them. You should. My point is all of these posts (and there have been a LOT of them lately) pressuring people into turning down their offers faster are unnecessary and, in some of the contexts where I have seen them, almost offensive (I.e. Congrats on your great offer, can you now call school X and reject them please because I am waiting to get in there).

[AssocProf]

I completely agree with Megan and others. You shouldn't feel any pressure at all to withdraw from any school until you're 100% certain you don't want to go there (and I agree - rank isn't everything - go to *all* the visits you can go to, even to the so-called "second-tier" schools). Of course, don't hold onto offers for the wrong reasons. That being said, you've earned every single offer that you've received. Take all the time to make the best decision for YOU.

To those of you who've been making pleas on this board for people to withdraw quickly: You should be soundly chastised for doing so. For whatever reason, you didn't make the first cut. That means you're in a holding pattern until April 15th. That's just the way it is.

One more thing... There are many misconceptions about how schools use their wait lists (this isn't surprising, given the unfortunate lack of transparency). Schools admit about 50% more people than they can reasonably matriculate. Therefore, a good number of people have to decline a school's offer of admission before the AdCom will move to the wait list. As suck, even if a handful of admits did, in fact, decline an offer quickly, schools would still be inclined to wait to closer to April 15 to pull people from their wait list (the danger of matriculating more people than you can afford to fund is greater than the danger of under-enrolling - schools are risk averse).

Being on a wait list and feeling like your fate is in the hands of others sucks. I get that. But pressuring and guilting admits into thinking that they're ruining your chances (or making you wait longer than you want to wait) just isn't cool.

[puddle]

This is a sticky issue. Obviously nobody should feel pressured to give up options until they're ready. On the other end, the OP is correct insofar as we shouldn't hold onto schools just because we can.

I use a method that I call the jellybean test: You have 10 jellybeans to distribute amongst your offers, where more beans == higher preference. If a program doesn't get any jellybeans in the test, cut them loose. They're not in contention for your services. I've declined two offers this week, and will likely decline two more next week. I won't make a final decision about where to go until after visiting, but I know that I'm not (for example) going to Maryland under any circumstance, so I can (should?) decline that offer.

In the strictly normative sense, we've earned the acceptances we've gotten, and have the right to hold onto those offers until April 15. But if you find yourself holding onto an offer because it's fun being wooed, because it makes you feel special or just because you can, then I would argue it's time to decline an offer or two and (potentially) let others in.

I would get confused half way through and eat 6 of the jellybeans (especially the fruity ones... I love those). Fact: I would only have 4 jellybeans left (See! Bean counting isn't just for Economists!)

On a moderately more serious note - I would not have applied to a school if I was not seriously considering attending. It would be foolish to make decisions without weighing your options (and impossible to weigh your options without all information).

I have used a lot of brackets in this post (probably because my thoughts run in wild tangents). In other news, we should all be a bit more understanding of goodluck here. At one time or another this process has driven us all to do crazy, uncharacteristic things. I plan to ignore her plea but I certainly understand where it comes from.

[brent09]

On a moderately more serious note - I would not have applied to a school if I was not seriously considering attending. It would be foolish to make decisions without weighing your options (and impossible to weigh your options without all information).

I think we all have different perspectives on this. I applied across a range of schools (from Michigan to Georgia), and certainly only picked programs that would accord me the opportunity to pursue my interests. The "seriousness" of my consideration, though, is highly dependent -- and inextricably so! -- on the programs to which I am accepted. I would seriously consider Georgia if I were only admitted to the programs in the 30-50 range. Given that I was fortunate enough to be admitted higher, Georgia, Maryland and similar programs get dropped without much anxiety.

The jellybeans are just my heuristic for assessing the probability that I would accept an offer. I can't be 100 percent sure, but if I wouldn't give the school at least one jellybean, I'm confident that I'm unlikely to choose that school in the end.

The general point I make stands: don't hold offers just to do so. (And cut the OP some slack.) But by all means hold onto the offers you're seriously considering (for the right reasons).

[PoliSci27]

In other news, we should all be a bit more understanding of goodluck here. At one time or another this process has driven us all to do crazy, uncharacteristic things. I plan to ignore her plea but I certainly understand where it comes from.

I'm in complete agreement. I saw a similar trend to this when I was applying for law school four years ago. There were people with half a dozen or more acceptances who would throw a fit anytime someone raised the issue of declining offers.

Maybe the person asking will benefit if the other turns down an offer. Probably not. Either way, those of us with acceptances will have to make a tough decision sooner or later. While I don't intend to rush into the decision, for my own sanity, I'd prefer to make the decision sooner rather than later. If that helps other people get their first acceptance, all the better.

Edited February 23, 2012 by PoliSci27

[Adornopolisci2012]

I think we all have different perspectives on this. I applied across a range of schools (from Michigan to Georgia), and certainly only picked programs that would accord me the opportunity to pursue my interests. The "seriousness" of my consideration, though, is highly dependent -- and inextricably so! -- on the programs to which I am accepted. I would seriously consider Georgia if I were only admitted to the programs in the 30-50 range. Given that I was fortunate enough to be admitted higher, Georgia, Maryland and similar programs get dropped without much anxiety.

The jellybeans are just my heuristic for assessing the probability that I would accept an offer. I can't be 100 percent sure, but if I wouldn't give the school at least one jellybean, I'm confident that I'm unlikely to choose that school in the end.

The general point I make stands: don't hold offers just to do so. (And cut the OP some slack.) But by all means hold onto the offers you're seriously considering (for the right reasons).

I agree with this sentiment. The plea is not for those with 4 offers from top 20 schools to choose without proper consideration. It's a plea to inform the "safety" school which you don't even intend to visit, that you don't intend to attend. There is a big difference.

[Ironheel!!]

I agree with this sentiment. The plea is not for those with 4 offers from top 20 schools to choose without proper consideration. It's a plea to inform the "safety" school which you don't even intend to visit, that you don't intend to attend. There is a big difference.

The plea is tell the damn Adcom at Illinois your going to Ohio State because the Illini got wooped in the game lastnight, thus getting Adorno an offer!

[Adornopolisci2012]

The plea is tell the damn Adcom at Illinois your going to Ohio State because the Illini got wooped in the game lastnight, thus getting Adorno an offer!

Calling me out! I see how it is. I expect to be waiting at least until April, Illinois is a top school to the point where they should remain in consideration for a long time i'd imagine.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Adornopolisci2012

[Ironheel!!]

Just continued department to College basketball program connections. I think I'm more excited about the prospect of tickets...

[RockStar]

Megan had a great response to this post. In short, people should have freedom to review their options within the allotted time. And most people tend not to hold on to a spot unnecessarily if they know they won't attend the school.

I was accepted at 2 schools and wait listed at a third. The wait list school told me that the list is not ranked and that once they get all of their responses from the people they offered admission, they will reassess the candidates on the wait list to choose appropriate fits. So if someone declined who sought to study Mississippi red clay (just an example), then someone on the wait list seeking to study the same would have the best shot. Not sure if this is how it works at all schools tho.