Chances of Getting into Cornell PhD Program

[Bgajdor1]

If you guys could help me out or give me some advice, that'd be great. I'm applying to Cornell's PhD Program in Psychology for Fall 2013.

My current GPA is 3.82. Plan to get research experience over the Summer, which I can put on my application when I apply in Fall. Also planning to take the GREs General Test this Summer. I will also be getting more research experience this Fall 2012, and Spring of 2013. Unfortunately, the only research experience I can put on my application is for the Summer. I'll mention that I'll have more by the time I would be accepted though.

I'm currently a student at Binghamton University, which I think has a fairly good reputation. So what do you guys think my chances are of getting into this prestigious school? (PhD in Psychology, Social/Personality Focus)

[lewin]

No matter how awesome you are the odds of getting into any particular program are very small because there is so much randomness in the process. What if your potential advisor is on sabbatical? Or not taking students? Many programs take 1-5 students each year so with such a small sample size it's exceptionally competitive. So I can't answer your question, but I would recommend applying to more like 6-10 programs.

[stereopticons]

What lewin00 said. There's no way to tell. I have 4 years of research experience, a masters degree, publications, good GPA and GRE, and I still didn't get in anywhere. It is extremely competitive and extremely random. Apply to as many programs as you can afford and a broad range of programs. Apply to some masters programs, if you don't have a masters degree already. No one is going to realistically be able to tell you your chances of getting in to any program at this point. Sorry to be a downer, and I'm not trying to say you won't get in because there really is no way to tell.

[carlyhylton]

Again, impossible to tell, especially when you only have reported approximately one fourth of the credentials required for application to grad school.

However, based on the information you've provided I do have a couple of comments...

Your gpa is good so congrats on that. Hopefully it'll help you out.

Nevertheless you still do not have research experience. You're potentially going to be going against candidates with years of research experience, masters degrees, publications etc (like @stereopticons). You definitely need to get some research experience under your belt. Apply next year, but consider taking a year off to RA or get a lab manager position. Try to do a poster presentation, co-author a paper, or author a paper.

Get strong reference letters from profs you've done research with or co-authored a paper with.

Study hard for your GREs, strong GREs will make you a more competitive candidate.

Finally, like @lewin00 and @stereopticons have said, you need to apply to a wide range of programs based on how your research interests match up with POIs.

Good luck

[QxV]

Echoing what the previous posters have said, here's how I think the admissions process works:

1) Application piles are thinned using quantitative criteria - those with low GPAs, GREs, get weeded out.

2) Applicants are further eliminated based on how much research experience they have - lack of experience means you're out.

3) A number of applicants are selected based on their personal statement and recommendations - this still leaves a sizable number of applications to deal with

Thus,

4) Faculty meet in a conference room, each equipped with a bow and arrow. The program chair gives the signal, and throws all the applications in the air. The faculty fire their arrows simultaneously, and applicants whose files get hit are called up for interviews.

5) To decide who gets offers, the faculty are given a series of challenges. These range from challenges of skill (e.g., who can perform an ANOVA by hand the quickest), to games of chance (e.g., winning a dice roll while juggling bowls of gold fish - the person who rolls the highest and comes within half a standard deviation of the average number of goldfish in each bowl wins). Based on their performance, faculty then get assigned priority to choose who they would like to invite to the program.

As you can see, there is a lot of randomness in the selection process, especially in the latter stages. As such, I would advise you to apply to multiple programs.

p.s., the bold phrases are meant to be taken seriously.

Edited April 15, 2012 by QxV

[Bgajdor1]

Thanks for the advice. I knew it was competitive, and that only a very small finite number of students are accepted each year. In fact Cornell's acceptance rate in psychology is 5%. I'll get as much research experience under my belt as possible.

I wasn't aware of the randomness of getting into a graduate school. Kind of disappointing since it seems no matter what you do, you can only increase your chances, or it could all be for nothing in the end.

I've thought about emailing a few of the graduate professors at Cornell and talking to them about their research via email. I've heard networking is big on getting people in to graduate school or a particular program. Have any of you guys had an experience with networking?

[Behavioral]

There's little influence in networking if you have nothing to show regarding your potential.

A good GPA is necessary in admissions (in that a low GPA will keep you out of schools), but it says nothing of your research capabilities. There's no reason a professor should and would place preference towards a student trying to network with them when the the ability to do research is so idiosyncratic.

Get some experience under your belt. Do well in whatever opportunity you're given to do research with a professor. Impress the professor. Once that happens, then you have some leverage to network with potential future advisors.

Until then, any attempts to network will be discounted since too many starry-eyed undergrads have no idea what they're getting themselves into and the signal-to-information ratio is near 0 until those individuals can provide evidence of research potential.

[Bgajdor1]

Okay. I'll take this research position opening for this Summer. It's supposed to involve research with patients in a clinical setting, and some more methodological research. Such as data input, ANOVAs, helping conduct experiments, etc. How much research should I have before I'm considered as a serious candidate for Graduate Programs?

I'll work over the Summer, and I'll be able to put down that I've worked in Fall 2012 as well. I plan on working as an RA for the next year and a half.

[Behavioral]

How much isn't the best question to ask. Demonstrated research ability is contingent on both quantity and quality--if your position is only you helping collect and analyze data, then I'm reluctant to say that it will be enough to get into a program as competitive as Cornell's PhD program (though this experience will likely be enough to get you into other less competitive programs).

Top-tier PhD programs in Social Psychology usually admit people with excellent research experience (many with either publications in major academic journals; most seem to have at least a few poster presentations at national conferences; just about all have at least two+ years of research experience, with many of them actually having full-time positions as lab/research assistants). If you browse through a lot of the threads on this forum, you'll see profiles of people who got shut out of all the schools they applied to (some applied to 10+) that had multiple publications, Masters degrees, 5+ years of research experience, etc.

If you set your sights and aspirations to something other than a Top-20 Social Psych PhD program (with more heated competition with applicants wanting an Ivy pedigree), then all this research may not be necessary--however, if you do want a strong shot at an academic job post-doctorate, you should be working towards the long run, getting quality research experience, and deferring graduate studies until you can get into a strong and reputable program. Graduate admissions is already competitive enough, but the academic job market seems to be just as (if not more) competitive after you get your PhD.

[Bgajdor1]

I've been thinking about that recently. I think it's best to hold off on graduate school. And get many years of research experience before heading there. Maybe pursue a Master's degree and then re-apply later. In fact, the average age of admission for graduate school applicants is around 25-27. I'm only 21 right now, so I guess I have a long ways to go.

How old were most of you when you were accepted into graduate school? (If you don't mind sharing.)

Also, this website may help people narrow down their searches for good graduate programs. You've all helped me immensely, so hopefully I can return the favor. Though you're probably already aware of most of these websites.

Petersons: (Has a bunch of college statistics regarding acceptance rate of many graduate schools and programs, if you're interested in looking at your chances. Most of the colleges I've considered have a 5% acceptance rate.)

http://www.petersons.com/graduate-schools.aspx

APA Website: Lists the accredited psychology programs around the country. For both Clinical and Counseling Psychology.

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/programs/clinical.aspx

PhDs.org: I'm not sure how "official" this website is. But it provides a lot of information about success rates of finding a job and post-doctorate at many different graduate schools (outcome statistics). The part I found particularly helpful is the amount of fellowships given out for different programs and graduate schools.

http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/psychology/rank/basic

Hope I can help you guys out a little. So you think my best bet is to pursue a Master's or get a few years of RA experience under my belt before applying?

[Behavioral]

I'd say an RA would be ideal. Your undergrad GPA would make the Masters an expensive way to gain research experience, and the coursework would likely not transfer over to a future PhD.

And I was 23 when I was accepted to PhD programs, though I started on research during my Sophomore year of college and had success with poster/paper presentations and had an R&R at the time.

[3point14]

I agree with what @Behavioral is saying, but there are some schools that offer funded Masters programs in psych, and with your GPA (and hopefully high GRE) you'd probably be a good candidate for merit-based scholarships. If I hadn't gotten into a PhD program this round (my second year applying), going for my Masters first was my plan.

[carlyhylton]

@Bgajdor1 I think you could certainly still apply in the fall and see what happens! And if it doesn't work out and you don't get an offer you're satisfied with then get some research experience under your belt.

You can definitely look at master's programs too but make sure they'll get you good research experience and they won't be too imposing financially. And you can call phd programs you'd be applying to to see how many credits would transfer over.

[Behavioral]

I agree with what @Behavioral is saying, but there are some schools that offer funded Masters programs in psych, and with your GPA (and hopefully high GRE) you'd probably be a good candidate for merit-based scholarships. If I hadn't gotten into a PhD program this round (my second year applying), going for my Masters first was my plan.

But if a candidate can get into a funded Masters, I'd argue that they would also be competitive for funded RA positions. If one isn't balancing their time and energy between research and classes, I'd imagine the one not in school would get more quality research done given the same amount of work hours. I really only recommend a Masters to someone with a low undergraduate GPA or to someone coming into psychology from another discipline that needs coursework under their belt.

The level of mentorship should be the same as you'd be working closely with 1 or a small group of professors in the lab you get hired in.

[psychgurl]

To chime in: I'm 25 y/o with 5 years of psych research experience. I applied to 10 programs and got into 1 phd program and 1 fully funded masters. I applied to Cornell this year, and just from stalking these boards obsessively, it seems like that program in particular likes to keep a very small department. Your best bet is to apply to about 10 schools that aren't all top-tier. I would recommend that you pursue a full-time RA position in an academic environment instead of a master's (after all, a master's doesn't guarantee you admission into phd programs). I have had an RA position for 3 years now, and I'm fairly certain that without this experience I wouldn't have gotten into grad school. Oh, and taking some time off from school helps you recharge the batteries and appreciate learning again when the time comes for grad school.

[3point14]

But if a candidate can get into a funded Masters, I'd argue that they would also be competitive for funded RA positions. If one isn't balancing their time and energy between research and classes, I'd imagine the one not in school would get more quality research done given the same amount of work hours. I really only recommend a Masters to someone with a low undergraduate GPA or to someone coming into psychology from another discipline that needs coursework under their belt.

The level of mentorship should be the same as you'd be working closely with 1 or a small group of professors in the lab you get hired in.

Oh, I agree with you completely. I mostly just wanted to point out that the option of a funded Masters is there. The only reason I was considering it was because I've spent the time from August-January applying, interviewing, and being rejected from RA positions, but I did get a Masters acceptance (and thankfully a PhD acceptance).

Also, I'm not sure exactly what area of psych you're in OP, but the NIH offers a nice post-baccalaureate training program (https://www.training...ms/postbac_irta). You send them your application, then you can contact PI's from the branch you're interested in (NIDA, NIMH), and if they haven't filled their postbacc spots (and/or have money to take one) they'll get back to you.

Edited April 16, 2012 by 3point14

[carlyhylton]

God the NIH post bacc program @3point14 mentions sounds amazing. I've seen it before and it looks great. I wish Canadians could apply! If I were an American I would definitely apply to this!!!!!

[stereopticons]

But if a candidate can get into a funded Masters, I'd argue that they would also be competitive for funded RA positions. If one isn't balancing their time and energy between research and classes, I'd imagine the one not in school would get more quality research done given the same amount of work hours. I really only recommend a Masters to someone with a low undergraduate GPA or to someone coming into psychology from another discipline that needs coursework under their belt.

The level of mentorship should be the same as you'd be working closely with 1 or a small group of professors in the lab you get hired in.

I think we've disagreed about this before, but I have to disagree again. I had neither a low undergraduate GPA nor a lack of psych coursework, and I am really glad I did my (funded) masters program. A funded RA position may not give you the opportunity to design your own research, for instance. There are definitely opportunities in both positions. I don't think you should rule it out as an option just because you have a high undergraduate GPA. That being said, since PhD programs have gotten more competitive, more people are applying to masters programs, which makes them more competitive as well.

[svh]

Cornell is particularly competitive because they only take two graduate students a year. I went to their interviews this year (they interviewed six), and I was rejected.

[Bgajdor1]

I'll be working in one through two RA labs over the Summer and next Fall. After that, I'll have my bachelor's degree in Psychology, three recommendations, and be finished with the GREs. If I don't get accepted into a graduate school of my choice, I'm considering working as an RA on campus (Binghamton University) for the next year or two.

Someone running one of the labs told me that lab positions are only paid post-baccalaureate. Which is why I'll need to volunteer or take college credit for the labs I'm doing now. Would you guys recommend I work as an RA for a couple years in funded research, or apply to a Master's program and conduct my research that way (and reapply to a PhD program later either way).

Also, in your experiences, how much money does an RA position pay? And what are the hours usually? Most of the labs here only run around 10 hours a week. I feel like I would need to work in multiple labs to make enough money to get by. The wages aren't hourly either, so when do I receive my stipend from the experience? And how much is it usually worth? In other words, do RA positions or funded master's programs pay well?

[psychgurl]

The RA positions in my dept are all 40hrs/week (hours are 9-5). They pay a little under 40k/year. There's probably a lot of variability, but my intuition is that if you can get a full-time RA position, that'd pay better than a stipend.

[Cogito]

I agree with much of what has been said already in this thread. Predicting one's chances of getting in anywhere based on quantitative information like GREs and GPAs is essentially impossible (as long as they meet a certain threshold). It is also true that Cornell's Psychology program is fairly small and they don't admit many new students. It really is all about fit. In applying to graduate school, I read this so much it almost seems like a cliche, but it is so true! Most importantly though, it's how you convey that fit in your personal statement.

Also, I encourage people who are interested in Developmental Psychology to look into Cornell's Developmental Psychology program. I will be attending there in the Fall. For reasons that are unclear to me (and the faculty!), the Developmental Psychology program is housed Cornell's College of Human Ecology, field of Human Development (HD), while their other Psychology programs are housed in their College of Arts and Sciences. In either case, your degree is a PhD in Psychology.

The Developmental Psychology program has its own faculty members and admits it's own students--slightly larger cohorts than the CAS Psyc program (I think they aim for about 5-6 students); however graduate students from each program have the freedom to take courses from either department, and are sometimes required to do so. For example, this Fall the HD department will be offering a quantitative methods course that both CAS Psych students and HD Psych students will be required to take. I will also likely be taking a course in Cognitive Neuroscience offered by the Psychology department. Also, the new fMRI will be housed in the same building as the HD department

My impression is that the distinction between the two programs is largely historical, and that graduate students often have faculty from both program sit on their committee chairs.

Just my 2 cents, as I probably would not have thought to look for into Cornell's Developmental Psychology program had I not been applying to work directly for a professor who's work I was already quite familiar!

Link: http://www.human.cornell.edu/hd/index.cfm

[stereopticons]

do RA positions or funded master's programs pay well?

No.

Honestly, I don't know for sure about RA jobs, but in a funded masters program, your stipend is probably going to be just enough to get by. RA jobs are usually grant funded, so they are probably not much better. If you're looking to get paid well right out of undergrad, you might be in the wrong field.

[QxV]

No.

Honestly, I don't know for sure about RA jobs, but in a funded masters program, your stipend is probably going to be just enough to get by. RA jobs are usually grant funded, so they are probably not much better. If you're looking to get paid well right out of undergrad, you might be in the wrong field.

I would extend that to "If you're looking to get paid well... ever".

[Behavioral]

I would extend that to "If you're looking to get paid well... ever".

*Points to various Social Psychology PhDs in business schools*

Heck, even in just my own department there are 7 marketing professors with PhDs in Social Psychology.

And the b-school pay (and subsequent opportunities for consulting) is pretty generous relative to other academic disciplines:

http://docsig.org/index.php/who-went-were/who-went-where-and-salary-surveys

Edited April 19, 2012 by Behavioral