Stanford vs UC Berkeley for Chemical Biology PhD

[dawson]

I am wondering whether I should pick Stanford or Berkeley for a PhD in Chemical Biology. US news ranks Berkeley #1 for graduate chemistry study and stanford #4, and Berkeley #2 for graduate biochemistry and Stanford #7. (However, biology alone is stanford #1 berkeley #2, and molecular biology is stanford #2 Berkeley #4. They do not have chemical biology ranked, but I imagine it would be similar to the biochemistry rankings. Organic chemistry is Berkeley #2, Stanford #4, and Biochem/Biophysics/Structural biology is Stanford #2 berkeley #6, which is odd considering Biochemistry alone was Berkeley #2 and Stanford #7.) I am funded at both (around 35k, negligible difference). If I go to Stanford I could live at home with my parents. If I go to Berkeley I could do that, but it would take an hour and a half to commute each way (with Stanford being more like 15 minutes), or I could rent an apartment, but that would cost more. However, is it worth passing up Berkeley's big name in Chemistry for Stanford? Obviously Stanford is amazing too, and the rankings aren't everything, but in general it seems to be Berkeley that is tops in Chemistry, with Harvard and MIT and Caltech with it, and Stanford as a sort of afterthought to the big 5. So basically - is the difference in prestige and research quality in chemical biology, and thus job opportunities, etc. big, or does Stanford's convenience advantage put it ahead?

For the record I want to go into pharma (Genentech or somewhere similar; staying in Bay Area for work almost certainly). Didn't do my undergrad at either of these universities. I prefer Stanford's environment in general, simply because it's close to home, but if the Berkeley advantage is big enough I'd absolutely be willing to pass up Stanford.

[wine in coffee cups]

You are seriously considering going to Stanford over Berkeley solely so you can live with your parents?

[dawson]

You are seriously considering going to Stanford over Berkeley solely so you can live with your parents?

Well the whole point of my thread is to figure out how much better Berkeley is. I don't really know what it means that Stanford is a couple ranks below Berkeley in chemistry; is that a big deal or is it meaningless, or somewhere in between, and I don't know which one is even better at all, actually, because Stanford is a couple ranks ahead in biology. I just included the fact that I could live at home because it's a convenience/cost factor that I am also considering. However, neither one would prohibit me to going to Berkeley if it is indeed the better chemical biology program and not just by a hair's width. I also included it because a lot of people say to go to Berkeley, and when I ask why, they say "location," but for me Stanford is the better location, because it's close and I'm not that much of a city guy. Again, if Berkeley is a lot better then I'll go to Berkeley. However, if they're really similar then I guess I might as well pick Stanford. That is the purpose of this question.

Edited May 11, 2012 by dawson

[Karlito]

Stanford or Berkeley? These are such poor choices. I suggest you turned down both and apply during the next season to get better offers.

[jayeyesee]

I am wondering whether I should pick Stanford or Berkeley for a PhD in Chemical Biology. US news ranks Berkeley #1 for graduate chemistry study and stanford #4, and Berkeley #2 for graduate biochemistry and Stanford #7. (However, biology alone is stanford #1 berkeley #2, and molecular biology is stanford #2 Berkeley #4. They do not have chemical biology ranked, but I imagine it would be similar to the biochemistry rankings. Organic chemistry is Berkeley #2, Stanford #4, and Biochem/Biophysics/Structural biology is Stanford #2 berkeley #6, which is odd considering Biochemistry alone was Berkeley #2 and Stanford #7.) I am funded at both (around 35k, negligible difference).

Wow.. I literally got a headache from reading this. Bottom line, both are top notch schools in this field. You are putting way too much emphasize on USNews rankings. Most people would dismiss USNews rankings anyway. You really can't go wrong with either school. I'm sorry but a lot of people are probably rolling their eyes reading this.

If I go to Stanford I could live at home with my parents. If I go to Berkeley I could do that, but it would take an hour and a half to commute each way (with Stanford being more like 15 minutes), or I could rent an apartment, but that would cost more

You will be a fully funded graduate student at either school. With 35k, I'm sure you can afford to live on your own (perhaps in graduate housing?) but if you really want to live with your parents and save some money, that's up to you. I really hope this isn't the primary factor in deciding between these schools.

Obviously Stanford is amazing too, and the rankings aren't everything, but in general it seems to be Berkeley that is tops in Chemistry, with Harvard and MIT and Caltech with it, and Stanford as a sort of afterthought to the big 5?

I have never heard of Stanford being an afterthought in chemistry. You repeatedly say rankings aren't everything but it sure sounds like it is to you.

So basically - is the difference in prestige and research quality in chemical biology, and thus job opportunities, etc. big, or does Stanford's convenience advantage put it ahead?

Probably another eye roller here. Are you insinuating that a degree from Stanford in your field (which you even mentioned is ranked within the top 10 in the almighty USNews) is going to limit your job opportunities as opposed to a degree from Berkeley.

Here's something you should consider... Fit. Which school seems like the best fit to you? And I'm not talking about the convenience of living with your parents. Consider research interests, faculty members, curriculum, avg. time it takes to graduate, etc... Again, they are both top notch schools and I don't see how you can go wrong with either.

EDIT: April 15th was almost a month ago? How are you still making this decision?

Edited May 12, 2012 by jayeyesee

[ANDS!]

Stanford or Berkeley? How about Lakers or Celtins? Kate Upton or Mila Kunis? 100 dollalrs now, or 100 dollars tomorrow. These are non-choices. The difference between both schools for your long term research and/or professional desires is pretty damn non-existent. They are both top schools. . .IN THE FUNKING WORLD.

This has to be a joke thread, with the overemphasis on rankings.

Edited May 12, 2012 by ANDS!

[ghanada]

I agree with the last 2 posts completely. This is one of the most ridiculous pairings I have seen in this forum, which is why you are getting the ridiculous responses so far. If this is a serious question, then you are wayyyyy too into rankings and fail to understand that rankings should be one of the lowest factors used in making decisions for a PhD. Particularly if you are choosing between 2 schools in the top 10, the difference between like #1 and #10 for US News is like a fraction of a point on their scaled scores and the particular positions of schools shift around practically daily. From this point on, forget about rankings and in your mind consider the schools to be tied for #1.

Now think about everything else that really matters. Have you found your advisers in each school? Who do you have a better relationship with? Which school has better projects for your thesis? Who has better connections to the industry you want to go into? Do you prefer a large public school vs a smaller private one? Will there be a significant difference in cost of living? Seriously, over analyzing the difference between #1 and #2 on US News is like taking advice from a 5 year old on who was a better basketball player between Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

[Sigaba]

MOO, a serious evaluation of the two options would include figuring out if the State of California's ongoing budgetary crisis might impact one's study at Cal. Potential questions include:

• Is there a chance that funding might be reduced or pulled all together?
  
• Might increases to tuition and fees lead to unforeseen expenses?
  
• Are faculty and grad students thinking about relocating to institutions that may not be as vulnerable to the vagaries of the ongoing recession? Have the budgetary issues led to a demoralized administrative staff within one's department?
  
• Might the ongoing budgetary crisis and approaching general election lead to increased political activity on campus by the student body and does one want to be around during such activity? (During my undergraduate days at Cal, there were intervals of significant student protest--especially among graduate students--that were disruptive to the learning environment.)
  

@ANDS! FWIW, I nearly laughed up lung tissue reading post #6. Well done.

[ktwho]

I live in Mountain View and teach at UC Berkeley in the summers. I LOVE the program, but the commute is killer. It's about 38 miles and the fastest it takes--no rush hour--is 50 minutes to get near campus and about another 10-12 to walk once you park. And that is lucky. Normally, it's about 1:20. Parking is $10/day and closes at 7pm.ON the contrary, to give you an idea of traffic, I teach in San Bruno...which is 33 miles away and takes 40 minutes door-to-door. I've been late due to traffic two times since August. I have to pad the Berkeley commute 15-20 minutes just in case because of 880.

Go to Stanford and save money...if you get along with your parents. If they start to get on your nerves...well, you could probably just bike it over to the library and hang out on campus. 880 is a total nightmare, depending on the timing (rush hour or not). If you choose Berkeley, look into the co-op housing and move there. If you can't handle living with your parents or think it will be an issue eventually, then go ahead and go to Berkeley because is much cheaper there for students. Grad student housing at Stanford is not cheap. My friend is a 2L and he and his wife live off campus in a house to themselves, which is about the same price as on campus with more space and privacy.

Like the others said, it's all about fit. You should pick the school whose professors you'll get along with and whose topics interest you. The closer you live to a campus, the more you'll be able to do things spontaneously--like attend an event you find out about or anything like that that may come up.

Academically, you can't go wrong at either school.