Getting a straight answer on how likely will I be admitted from UIUC CS.

[buddy16cat]

I am currently finishing about a master's degree at a different University of Illinois campus than UIUC but since the director of my program knew Roy Cambell well, I thought there might be a chance I may get admitted if the director gave me a recommendation. My grades are not an issue, I had a 3.95 GPA for undergrad and a 4.0 grad school average. Since I didn't really have the time or money to apply I sent my transcripts to the department and asked how likely would I be admitted and got the answer "you are eligable to apply based on your records". I didn't know what it meant but I know atleast it was some kind of encourage to apply. Of course I got the batch email rejection letter which I am ok about. What gets me is that I think I was encouraged to apply when I believe they had no intentions of admitting me. I believe that they mostly will admit their own undergraduate students, those who attended colleges with better US News Rankings than their own, and those that attended prestigious universities. I believe this based on profiles I have seen of those admitted which match where their faculty went to college. I did attended a low cost undergraduate college with open admission. At the time they didn't require calculus since none of the computer science courses use it since CS has little use for coninuous variables needed to use the tools in calculus. I believe that because I didn't not attend their campus (they act like the other campus doesn't even exist when I talk to them about it) and I attended a non-prestigous college they never had any intention of admitting me. I think they just like to reject a lot of people to keep their US News Rankings high. Their law school is currently under investigation by the ABA for exagerrating statistics to US News. Does my argument make any sense? I really didn't want to attend there because of their location anyhow but it irritates me that I was encourage to apply. Has anyone else though this? That they were encouraged to apply somewhere that would no way admit them?

[edgirl]

I don't think you were encouraged -- it sounds like you got a standard form response, which indicated you were eligible to apply because you met the admission requirements in the sense of having an undergraduate degree or whatever. And you state yourself that you didn't take much time to work on the application. So it sounds like you need to forget it and move on.

[ANDS!]

Indeed; they aren't going to give you a "You'll be admitted to our PhD program if you just apply" answer. Most schools wont. I feel you on the "I dont have a ton of cash. . ." bit - but who does? Sadly this is one of the breaks about applying to grad-school, reaching out to programs that may not accept you.

[wine in coffee cups]

I think they just like to reject a lot of people to keep their US News Rankings high. Their law school is currently under investigation by the ABA for exagerrating statistics to US News. Does my argument make any sense?

No, your argument does not make sense because unlike law school rankings, US News rankings of graduate CS programs don't take acceptance rates into account. US News rankings are based just on reputation survey results so there aren't even any objective inputs for UIUC CS to manipulate if it wanted to look better.

[kaykaykay]

Programs will encourage all eligible students to apply because they want to have a big pool to select from. That's said the application process is very competetive and the school never knows who will be your competition, so there is no way they can tell you whether they will be able to admit you or not.A person with your profile may have gotten in last year, but not this year. You don't even know whether you were close to admission or not this year.

However as you got a pile of rejections probably you have some weakness in your application (maybe not your grades!) that you should think about if you want to reapply.

[ghanada]

I agree with everyone else, they never "encouraged" you to apply. Even so, I don't think any school will specifically say not to apply. They obviously want lots of applications for more money and more prestige.

Also, you should understand that GPA isn't everything. I have heard LOTS of first hand accounts as well as from admission committee members that it is not uncommon to reject 4.0 GPAs. I have definitely even heard of a person with a 5.0/5.0 GPA at MIT getting rejected from a PhD. There is so much more that goes into the application decision.

If you are planning on re-applying, your best bet is to speak to the POI that you wanted to work with there and try and get that professor to offer funding for you. This is a nearly surefire way of getting admitted into a program. Especially if one of your LORs knows this person personally, you should have tried to get an in through this route.

[emmm]

You seem to be giving up very easily. CS is probably one of the more (most?) competitive fields, but just about all graduate programs are tough to get into nowadays (the good ones, anyway). Most people apply to many programs in hopes of getting into at least one. I don't know why you think you had been given some kind of advance guarantee of admission. The committee has to meet and discuss applicants before determining who to accept and reject. Persistence in the face of setbacks is an important quality for a graduate student to have. As is a thick skin.

[emmm]

Well . . . I am older than you are! I don't think the difficulty gaining admission is entirely funding related -- there are a lot of really strong applicants out there. That said, it is definitely easier to get into certain unfunded programs. I can understand wanting a break from school, however, and with your recent schooling, you should be well-positioned to find a job. I went back because my time out of the workforce with kids essentially demanded some updating of skills/knowledge.

[buddy16cat]

Well . . . I am older than you are! I don't think the difficulty gaining admission is entirely funding related -- there are a lot of really strong applicants out there. That said, it is definitely easier to get into certain unfunded programs. I can understand wanting a break from school, however, and with your recent schooling, you should be well-positioned to find a job. I went back because my time out of the workforce with kids essentially demanded some updating of skills/knowledge.

I am currently 42. Yes, I know some programs geared to non-traditional students at exclusive colleges are easier to get into like Penn LPS and Harvard Extension School. I do think though that if you are self-funded it is easier to get in since you are paying them, well atleast it is far less competitive. I know that I read that many colleges focus less on their PHD programs admitting less students prefering to focus on their un-funded master's programs. For instance UIUC has a professonal Master of Computer Science program that is relatively easier to get in. I read on the statistics survey here that UIUC cut their PHD admission in half. The MCS program, especially the online program benefits them the most since they can charge exclusive, private college tuition for something completely online. I am graduating from the University of Illinois-Springfield for 1/3 the cost. The difference between their diploma and mine? One word, in small print. I would imagine though that their application pool for their PHD is quite large, people apply from all over to go to all the top ranked collleges with Carnagie Mellon, Stanford, MIT, and UC Berkeley being their first pick. But one person did make sense stating "of course they want all qualified students to apply for the money and prestige". I do believe the writer for US News that said "college rankings cause colleges to act badly" but many students base where they apply on these rankings. One thing I can say though they have to give their own undergraduate students first dibs I would think. I should of thought of this when deciding where to attend undergraduate school. But yes, I am definately looking forward to a break from college and most likely won't return unless I get some kind of tuition rembirsement. I have been looking at this Master of Philosophy degree at Penn LPS which looks more like a mini-phd.

Edited May 15, 2012 by buddy16cat

[Eigen]

None of your reasoning for admissions decisions fits for my field. It may for CS, but it's definitely not the broader norm. At least in the lab sciences, often coming from a smaller school comes with greater personal research experience, and often also comes with great recommendations.

And as to giving priority to their own students, I don't think that is generally the case either. In fact, it's often looked at as academic inbreeding to have too many of your own students carry on to graduate programs.

Similarly, I don't think that any ranking systems for graduate programs are based off of acceptance rates or number of applications. Most are based off of a combination of funding, peer reviews, and general program statistics rather than applicant statistics.

[emmm]

I am also in my 40s (farther along...), and I feel very lucky to have been accepted into my current program. It wasn't easy, though. I think at least half the programs I applied to didn't even read my application, but that's just speculation on my part. And it could have had more to do with my lack of lab experience than with my age. I am in classes with first years in those programs and I can't honestly say they are less qualified, but I am holding my own, so obviously I can do the work. I have an advisor who doesn't seem to care how old (or young) his students are, and I have not been made to feel out of place at all. I have not seen any preference for students who went to undergrad here (I didn't), and although I go to a state U, there's no advantage to being in-state either (although I think being an international would probably a disadvantage, due to funding issues).

Edited May 15, 2012 by emmm

[buddy16cat]

I am actually not from a small college. I went to a career college for my undergraduate which was definiately not research based. The campus where I getting my masters though is a small campus of the University of Illinois versus the large flagship campus, UIUC. Like I said if I knew I was going to apply for a PHD program, I probably should have went to more of a research university for my undergrad rather than a professional college. Many applicants though do cause a lower acceptance rate making the department more exclusive. I do know it is difficult to get into many PHD programs today and get funded. Different colleges tell you different things. Some say that if you don't need funding it does help you to get admitted, others fund all candidates. Anyhow, I didn't get in, for whatever reason and I won't be applying there again. They don't recommend re-applying unless your statistics changed. I will have a master's but would rather attend elsewere in a different location.

[buddy16cat]

I am also in my 40s (farther along...), and I feel very lucky to have been accepted into my current program. It wasn't easy, though. I think at least half the programs I applied to didn't even read my application, but that's just speculation on my part. And it could have had more to do with my lack of lab experience than with my age. I am in classes with first years in those programs and I can't honestly say they are less qualified, but I am holding my own, so obviously I can do the work. I have an advisor who doesn't seem to care how old (or young) his students are, and I have not been made to feel out of place at all. I have not seen any preference for students who went to undergrad here (I didn't), and although I go to a state U, there's no advantage to being in-state either (although I think being an international would probably a disadvantage, due to funding issues).

That is something I didn't consider. Isn't it better for a college to admit candidates from their state since they also get state funding for the student? I think I just didn't apply to enough programs to really get into somewhere but I thought it better to wait, get some work experience, and shoot for a higher GRE score for those that require it. I just applied to UIUC since I am already at a U of I campus, whether they consider it or not.

[emmm]

I was chatting with one of the profs on the admissions committee for our program, and he said they just look for the best applicants. I had met with dept representatives for other programs I applied to and I specifically asked if being in-state helped, and I was told no -- again they want the best applicants. So, I guess I should be doubly flattered about getting in, but I definitely got many more rejections than acceptances.

[Eigen]

You keep coming back to this, but I went to an unranked, non selective admission state school and got into some top 10 programs.

And I know plenty of others that did the same. Rankings aren't really that big of a deal, especially UNWR rankings. Maybe NRC, but those are very vague and still have a number of flaws.

GRE scores aren't as important as you make them out either, as long as they're halfway decent. They're used as cuttoffs much more than to make comparisons.

[R Deckard]

(1) You were not encouraged to apply. They did not suggest that you would be accepted.

(2) The director of your program knowing Roy Campbell, whose name you can't even bother to spell correctly, probably would not help your admission chances unless you actually wanted to work with Roy Campbell.

(3) It sounds like you went to University of Illinois at Springfield. This is a small liberal arts schools. Going there will not help you get into UIUC or any other good university.

(4) You do not sound in any way qualified to go to an elite CS PhD program.

(5) Please stop whining.

[buddy16cat]

(1) You were not encouraged to apply. They did not suggest that you would be accepted.

(2) The director of your program knowing Roy Campbell, whose name you can't even bother to spell correctly, probably would not help your admission chances unless you actually wanted to work with Roy Campbell.

(3) It sounds like you went to University of Illinois at Springfield. This is a small liberal arts schools. Going there will not help you get into UIUC or any other good university.

(4) You do not sound in any way qualified to go to an elite CS PhD program.

(5) Please stop whining.

You are now being ignored, grow up. Find someone else to lash out on, smart-ass punk. Troll elsewhere. UIUC is just a midwest, public university and hardly someplace truly elite like Harvard or something. You are not CS but if they are anything like you at UIUC with the serious social issues I am totally relieved I never have to go there.

Edited May 16, 2012 by buddy16cat

[buddy16cat]

Hey emmm, I was wondering about the state school you went to. Is it like the one I mentioning where one campus is " a small liberal art college that won't get you into a good university like UIUC" even though we are talking about the same university system that all share the same name? This kid doesn't know what he is talking about obviously. The diplomas are identical except one word but one is "good" and the other is not good because it is a "small liberal arts college". Where I live we have colleges like Swarthmore College that are "small liberal arts colleges" that are far better than UIUC. I guess were back to prestige having more presidence over education received. UIUC is just a state college on the prairie in the Midwest, not some "elite school". I guess we just have better state colleges here in the Northeast where no matter what campus you go to you are a Rutgers or Penn State student.

[buddy16cat]

You keep coming back to this, but I went to an unranked, non selective admission state school and got into some top 10 programs.

And I know plenty of others that did the same. Rankings aren't really that big of a deal, especially UNWR rankings. Maybe NRC, but those are very vague and still have a number of flaws.

GRE scores aren't as important as you make them out either, as long as they're halfway decent. They're used as cuttoffs much more than to make comparisons.

Yeah I have to take the GRE again. The GRE won't get you in but can keep you out. I know what you mean though about ranking. Many colleges choose not to be ranked and if your department does not offer a PHD they will not be ranked. Many colleges in my area and others offer only a master's in CS and they are not included in the CS ranking even though they may have a good CS master's program. Plus many employers aren't exactly going through the department ranking when looking for candidates, they just like familiar names. Plus the person hiring may not know anything about your chosen field and doesn't need to. There are other things to consider like a location you want to live at since you will be spending a great deal of time there. I am definately done with any long distance education and will just stick to my local area.

Edited May 16, 2012 by buddy16cat

[Eigen]

I can't say for CS, but UIUC is one of the top schools in a lot of physical science disciplines. And since you brought it up, it's ranked 5th out of PhD programs in CS, beating out most of the Ivies.

And since you brought it up, a degree from Penn State College Station is definitely different than one from any other campus. And the same is true for any other state school system I know. Just because they share the same "name" doesn't mean much- they build reputations separately and are regarded as different schools, albeit in the same "system". Thats why if you look through any rankings you'll see schools with different campuses listed differently.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Different programs have different faculty, and different faculty make programs very different places to get a degree from.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Eigen

[Eigen]

You are now being ignored, grow up. Find someone else to lash out on, smart-ass punk. Troll elsewhere. UIUC is just a midwest, public university and hardly someplace truly elite like Harvard or something. You are not CS but if they are anything like you at UIUC with the serious social issues I am totally relieved I never have to go there.

Oh, and this? They aren't the one who needs to grow up, apparently.

And as to "somewhere truly elite like Harvard", it's ranked 17the relative to UIUC at 5. Think you might need to rethink your wording a bit.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Eigen

[buddy16cat]

I can't say for CS, but UIUC is one of the top schools in a lot of physical science disciplines. And since you brought it up, it's ranked 5th out of PhD programs in CS, beating out most of the Ivies.

And since you brought it up, a degree from Penn State College Station is definitely different than one from any other campus. And the same is true for any other state school system I know. Just because they share the same "name" doesn't mean much- they build reputations separately and are regarded as different schools, albeit in the same "system". Thats why if you look through any rankings you'll see schools with different campuses listed differently.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Different programs have different faculty, and different faculty make programs very different places to get a degree from.

For someone that doesn't care about ranking, you sure do make judgements based of them. For many people who's lives don't revolve around colleges and their magazine rankings, they tend not to look at state college systems all that differently. I can say I don't have a negative view of a college because it is a small, liberal arts university, I actually have a good view of this. It means their students are not a number in a stadium sized class and receive better administrative services. Go ahead call me immature but if I am attacked by some Internet troll because of my opinions, I am going to say something back. Since you are still influenced by US News Ranking, yes they do have a good reputation for CS. So does Carnagie Mellon where one of my classmates at community college attended and is a more well known in my area. Professors and students told me about Carnagie Mellon but since I was not familiar with colleges on the other end of the state I didn't apply. I applied at a couple colleges in the city where I live and this career college in MI. Illinois does have a high ranking at US News but they are not as well known as others. I never really intended on going as far as I did in college. If I did it may have influenced where I chose to apply. I also was unaware of college rankings since I went to trade skilled and worked in a skilled trade before returning to college. If I was aware, I may have made different undergraduate decisions, or may have not. How many employers follow CS magazine rankings that weren't CS students? If I went to Penn, it would probably trump Illinois despite what a magazine said depending on where you want to work. Illinois may outrank Ivy League colleges but many of their students and faculty attended Ivy League school. It seems a colleges overall reputation and prestige definately trumps US News rankings. U of I only has three campuses, they are no U of California. They have on campus more than Rutgers.

Edited May 16, 2012 by buddy16cat

[Eigen]

There's a large difference between ranking undergrad/masters programs and PHD programs. I pulled the rankings for CS because I don't know the reputation off the top of my head (since its not my field), but their rankings in other areas aligns well with the UNWR rankings I gave, in a general sense. UIUC has top shelf grad programs in the sciences, CS no exception.

You kept talking about undergrad rankings- and I don't think it really matters where you did undergrad as long as you have a good record to show for it. From my experience, admissions committees don't find program ranking to be that important.

That said, graduate program ranking (qualitatively, not quantitatively) is more important. In large part due to the competitiveness, but also due to the fact that it's *the* terminal degree. That said, post-doctoral positions, for those fields that have them, will definitely trump grad program ranking once again.

I brought up rankings because you keep trying to compare a small UI system school with UIUC, which is one of the top colleges in the country, including unfavorable comparisons to Harvard- something that just isn't true, any way you slice it. Additionally, all of the points in your last post about SLACs vs RU/VHs could be made in comparing to any of the Ivies just as well as to UIUC. For the most part, I think everyone will agree that good undergraduate focused institutions turn out more "mature" undergraduate researchers due to more focus being placed on their training. But that still doesn't explain why you're unfavorably comparing UIUC to Harvard, or why you think your degrees from another UI school is equivalent to one from UIUC.

And as to academia vs. industry... UIUC is very well known in industry as well, and from what I know has a number of great uindustry contacts. A least in my field. And from what I can see, the same is true in CS.

Also, you weren't "attacked by an Internet troll". You were given some rather blunt truths by another, better respected, poster. You are the only one in this threads that's resorted to attacking someone.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Eigen

[R Deckard]

I can say I don't have a negative view of a college because it is a small, liberal arts university

The problem with UIS is not that it is a small, liberal arts campus. The problem is that it is not particularly good or well-known. As Eigen mentioned earlier, if you go to small, unknown school like this, people will expect to you have intimate research experience and outstanding letters of recommendations to make up for the the unfamiliarity of the program.

And I assure that UIUC does in fact have an excellent CS program, and they recruit some of the top students in the country. Although the absolute best students often choose from the "top 4" CS schools, UIUC does not have any trouble recruiting stronger graduate classes than Harvard and many other "prestigious" schools.

Also, you might want to rethink the way that you communicate online -- perhaps you should reread some of you posts.

Edited May 16, 2012 by R Deckard

[buddy16cat]

Well I am not the one insulting people saying "you don't sound like somoene that could ever get into an elite CS program". He doesn't know me nor my record. I graduated Summa Cum Laude from my undergrad and will have a 4.0 with my master's. He is the one that associated a "small, liberal arts university" somehow unassociated with a "good university" which is a flat out insult. Despite US News Rankings, some colleges have a lot of prestiges associated with regardless of major. I see what you mean though about using rankings when you just don't know anything a college. But his comments did reassure my thinking that where you went to college has a lot to do with admission. There is no way someone that went to a "small, liberal arts university which aren't good" would sound like someone worthy of UIUC. That is not giving blunt truths, that is hurling insults just to make him feel better about himself. It doesn't matter about UIUC, I didn't get in and they don't recommend applicants reapplying unless their profile changes significantly. I will have a master's but still don't want to apply again. Where did you go Eigen?

What is this "better respected, poster."? His opinion is better because people on the Internet message board liked what he said. This is my first thread on this discussion board, which this is, an Internet message board. I guess I should take serious to what everyone says on the Internet who have some ranking on a message board. Some people troll. Now that I know this not a very helpful board, I won't post another thread. Internet is big, I am sure I can find a message board that is more helpful.

Edited May 16, 2012 by buddy16cat