Complicated academic history. Not sure what schools to aim for?

[math_hopeful]

A little background: I'm a community college transfer student. I attended a CC for 3 years and then transferred to a 4 year school. I switched my major to math the semester before transferring, so all my major classes besides Calc I were taken at the 4-year university... which I had a hard time adjusting to during my first year, and my grades show it. I am starting my last year of undergrad this Fall and will be graduating June 2013. I am hoping to apply for admission for Fall 2013 to applied math (really interested in operations research) masters programs (PhD is the ultimate goal, but I'm being realistic given my transcript)... what schools should I be aiming for? I'm not even sure where to begin looking.

GPA:

California community college (transferrable classes): 3.41

4-year university: 2.58 (top 40 school, giant public)

Current major GPA: 2.72

GRE: taking it in September

2010-2011:

Calc I: B

Calc II: C

Calc III: C

Linear Algebra: C

Statistical Methods: C-

Applied Linear Algebra: C-

Intro to Proofs: C-

2011-2012:

Intro to Analysis I (A-)

Intro to Analysis II (B-)

Intro to Probability ( B )

Intro to Mathematical Stats (B-)

Numerical Optimization I (A-)

Numerical Optimization II (A)

Discrete Math & Graph Theory (A)

2011-2012 GPA: 3.35

Currently taking (summer):

Intro to Diff. Eqns

Vector Calculus

Enrolled/ planned for next year:

Numerical Linear Algebra

Stochastic Processes I

Stochastic Processes II

Other information: Asian female, first generation college student. No publications or research experience.

Letters of recc: I know I can get one great one and one good one... the last one will probably just be OK...

Any advice on improving my chances? Besides obviously doing as well as possible this coming year and keep the upward trend going. How do I address the first year of math classes? What schools should I realistically be looking at? Also, I'm very close to finishing my major requirements (which is why I only have 3 math classes planned for next year). Any classes I should definitely take? My schedule will be pretty open and would love advice on what to add! Any and all comments, opinions, advice, etc. is greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

Edited July 14, 2012 by math_hopeful

[ANDS!]

Doubtful. Are you going to be applying for Applied Math programs?

[math_hopeful]

Doubtful. Are you going to be applying for Applied Math programs?

What do you mean by "doubtful"? So I can't make it in anywhere? :/ And yeah... I am planning on applying to applied math programs.

[ANDS!]

Sorry, I read that as "Anything else I can do to improve my chances. . ." which is the usual refrain you hear in these situations. And no, it's not "I can't get in anywhere. . .", but you certainly will have to be incredibly realistic about where you apply. Thing is, your best grade is an A- in real analysis. So while there is an upward trend, and you've done better, it's not THAT drastic of a shift in the other direction. Realistically, the academic performance you have RIGHT NOW, is what is going to go into your application as the fall semester will not be over before some applications are due; those that have Jan/Feb march deadlines, will an extra .1 gpa boost be that much of a difference - most likely not.

I would say a top 50-100 school is definitely doable. As for your letters of recommendations, if a professor is NOT going to write you an EXCELLENT LOR, there is no reason to get it from them. "Just ok. . ." is just as pointless as a bad one. Look them square in the eye and ask them "What kind of letter is this going to be - ". With your academic background, you do not need a run-of-the-mill LOR sinking you.

[Hanyuye]

This just pumped me up. Thanks ANDS!

[R Deckard]

Sorry, I read that as "Anything else I can do to improve my chances. . ." which is the usual refrain you hear in these situations. And no, it's not "I can't get in anywhere. . .", but you certainly will have to be incredibly realistic about where you apply. Thing is, your best grade is an A- in real analysis. So while there is an upward trend, and you've done better, it's not THAT drastic of a shift in the other direction. Realistically, the academic performance you have RIGHT NOW, is what is going to go into your application as the fall semester will not be over before some applications are due; those that have Jan/Feb march deadlines, will an extra .1 gpa boost be that much of a difference - most likely not.

I would say a top 50-100 school is definitely doable. As for your letters of recommendations, if a professor is NOT going to write you an EXCELLENT LOR, there is no reason to get it from them. "Just ok. . ." is just as pointless as a bad one. Look them square in the eye and ask them "What kind of letter is this going to be - ". With your academic background, you do not need a run-of-the-mill LOR sinking you.

Realistically, how is she going to get three "EXCELLENT" letters of recommendation with no research experience and mediocre grades?

[math_hopeful]

Sorry, I read that as "Anything else I can do to improve my chances. . ." which is the usual refrain you hear in these situations. And no, it's not "I can't get in anywhere. . .", but you certainly will have to be incredibly realistic about where you apply. Thing is, your best grade is an A- in real analysis. So while there is an upward trend, and you've done better, it's not THAT drastic of a shift in the other direction. Realistically, the academic performance you have RIGHT NOW, is what is going to go into your application as the fall semester will not be over before some applications are due; those that have Jan/Feb march deadlines, will an extra .1 gpa boost be that much of a difference - most likely not.

I would say a top 50-100 school is definitely doable. As for your letters of recommendations, if a professor is NOT going to write you an EXCELLENT LOR, there is no reason to get it from them. "Just ok. . ." is just as pointless as a bad one. Look them square in the eye and ask them "What kind of letter is this going to be - ". With your academic background, you do not need a run-of-the-mill LOR sinking you.

Believe it or not... top 50-100 is actually a nice surprise to hear. I actually thought I didn't really have a chance at anything besides unranked/unheard of schools in the middle of nowhere... if that.

Lol no worries, I have no delusions of getting into an amazing school or a phd program right now. The goal is to keep improving and finish my undergrad stronger than this last year went, and worlds away from my first year... Then get my masters somewhere (and not screw up from the beginning this time) and then see how I like graduate math and if I want to go further with it.

Would you recommend not applying this year, but instead finishing up this school year with good grades and apply for Fall 2014? That way they'll have two years of better grades to look at? Also, what classes would you recommend I fill my schedule up with this year? Besides the three I listed, I have room for 6-8 more classes.

Thanks again for your reply! I really appreciate it!

[math_hopeful]

Realistically, how is she going to get three "EXCELLENT" letters of recommendation with no research experience and mediocre grades?

I'm a little worried about my third letter... and I supposed the other two as well. They would be from two professors who said they'd write good ones, but it's not going to be about any amazing research experience/ being top of the class/ etc. They both said given my academic track record from last year, I impressed them with how I did in their classes. Both of them also said they were extremely impressed with how hard-working and determined I am so they'd be writing about that. One of them really wants me to look into phd programs instead, but I'm being realistic--it's obviously not something that's going to happen right now.

For the third letter, I don't have a professor in mind, but there is a grad student at my school that knows me extremely well, who would be able to write an excellent letter. I did an independent study with her this past spring (with the end result being a project I presented in front of a small group of other undergrads and grad students), she's been my TA for previous classes (two of them) and also the primary instructor/professor for another. Plus she helped tutor me a little while I was taking Real Analysis. I know it's obviously better if I could get a letter from a professor, but would an excellent letter from her be better than an "OK" one from a professor?

[ANDS!]

Realistically, how is she going to get three "EXCELLENT" letters of recommendation with no research experience and mediocre grades?

A greater than majority of students who graduated with me and are going on to graduate programs have zero research experience and ok grades - they didn't have a problem finding professors whose classes they did well enough in to speak for them (one got a LOR from an instructor who only had one course from this instructor and didn't have much trouble in regards to his grad search).

Would you recommend not applying this year, but instead finishing up this school year with good grades and apply for Fall 2014? That way they'll have two years of better grades to look at? Also, what classes would you recommend I fill my schedule up with this year? Besides the three I listed, I have room for 6-8 more classes.

If you're going to go for the Masters first, the barrier of entry is lower than for a PhD - hell you might even look at staying at your current school and applying to the graduate program there.

[R Deckard]

A greater than majority of students who graduated with me and are going on to graduate programs have zero research experience and ok grades - they didn't have a problem finding professors whose classes they did well enough in to speak for them (one got a LOR from an instructor who only had one course from this instructor and didn't have much trouble in regards to his grad search).

I don't understand how those could possibly be considered "excellent" letters.

[ANDS!]

You'll hve to ask them about how the heck they managed to huckster their way into their LOR's w/o participating in some middling independent study or poster session that is fluffed up come app time.

Some of you are just entirely TOO focused on this idea of having had research experience before heading off to the great graduate school blue yonder. That or you're just being quarrelsome for the sake of being quarrelsome.

[R Deckard]

You'll hve to ask them about how the heck they managed to huckster their way into their LOR's w/o participating in some middling independent study or poster session that is fluffed up come app time.

Some of you are just entirely TOO focused on this idea of having had research experience before heading off to the great graduate school blue yonder. That or you're just being quarrelsome for the sake of being quarrelsome.

Maybe your standards are just low.

[cyberwulf]

You don't NEED research experience to get into grad school, but the only other way to get strong letters is if your grades are excellent.

[ANDS!]

Maybe your standards are just low.

Nah. But continue, please.

[R Deckard]

Nah. But continue, please.

It's relative, you know.

[wine in coffee cups]

math_hopeful, I think your third letter ought to come from faculty, not a grad student, as I've seen application instructions be specific on this point. I would consult with the professor who knows your background the best for advice about how to proceed with a third letter. Feel free to write about that independent study in your essay, though. You might be able to pull some nice anecdotes out of that experience to give admissions committees a clearer sense of your interests in applied math.

What you believe the other two letters will say -- that you're a hard worker who has exceeded expectations based on your previous grades -- I would think that is not compelling for more selective programs, but may be a good enough endorsement for where you are applying. R Deckard and ANDS! disagree on what constitutes an excellent letter of recommendation, but I think they might both agree on this basic point:* you're aiming relatively low so you don't need letters saying you were the most amazing researcher ever, and people with just okay letters can still get in somewhere. I do think it might be helpful if your letters could give more context to your situation than just pointing to the simple upward trend that is readily apparent from your transcripts.

GRE general scores don't usually do much to help as opposed to hurt your chances, but I suspect you'll stand a much better chance with that GPA if you perform well on that test, so get cracking on studying if you haven't already. A lot of graduate schools will have a blanket rule that your GPA needs to be above 2.75 or 3.0, so be mindful of those requirements as you make your list. Best of luck!

* I would caveat the advice of everyone here (besides cyberwulf since he's faculty) that we are just guessing about LORs, anyway, since it's rather uncommon for applicants to actually see them, let alone learn how they were perceived by admissions folks.

[ongtz]

I am just curious. Where you looking to apply to? There are so many deciding factors and each graduate committee handles them differently. Since you can't turn back time, focus on the LORs and best of luck for your GRE. Do consider acquiring a programming language if possible (MATLAB/C++).

[bmw_math]

These marks seem too low. You should contact your academic advisor to see what they think.