Applying for Fall 2013

[runn]

So true, Karajan, in other words, "When at first you don't succeed, apply, apply again."     I got flat out rejection from 6 schools last year -- it was a real blow to my ego (but was good for me too).  That made me much more realistic this time around.  Even still, the way it's panned out this year, I'm scratching my head until I hear if anyone's offering me mula.  My standing at this point:

 

Accepted: Stony Brook, CUNY

Wait-listed: UNT, UT

Rejected: Princeton, Yale, NYU

No Word: Columbia (probably rejected), UC Davis (?)

 

The only one that could potentially offer full funding is UNT, but will have to wait to hear about that.  Stony Brook often offers a partial fellowship and a half-TA at least.  CUNY only had 2 spots this year for funding, and I'm wait-listed for that.  Such a game, such a game.  

 

Just curious: In what way were you more realistic this year as opposed to last?

[SunnyComposer]

Just curious: In what way were you more realistic this year as opposed to last?

 

Hey run_kmc -- nice screen-name btw!  I only applied to the "cream of the crop" last year -- all Ivy Leagues and conservatories that get way too many applications and have too few spots.  I took a hard look at why I was applying for them, and came to the conclusion that name and reputation alone did not necessarily make a good place for me (this may be obvious to others, but I had to go through that rejection).  I came up with some things I knew I was looking for -- schools that fit my interests, an education that would be cheap if not free, a geographic place I would want to spend a few years in, and to have at least a few schools in which I knew I would have more of a chance -- some "back-ups".  My approach to submitted materials also became more specific because I knew exactly why I was applying to each school.  I still didn't get into my "top choices" this year but I'm not so crushed this time around.   What about you? 

[runn]

Hey run_kmc -- nice screen-name btw!  I only applied to the "cream of the crop" last year -- all Ivy Leagues and conservatories that get way too many applications and have too few spots.  I took a hard look at why I was applying for them, and came to the conclusion that name and reputation alone did not necessarily make a good place for me (this may be obvious to others, but I had to go through that rejection).  I came up with some things I knew I was looking for -- schools that fit my interests, an education that would be cheap if not free, a geographic place I would want to spend a few years in, and to have at least a few schools in which I knew I would have more of a chance -- some "back-ups".  My approach to submitted materials also became more specific because I knew exactly why I was applying to each school.  I still didn't get into my "top choices" this year but I'm not so crushed this time around.   What about you? 

 

Thanks! This is my first year applying for doctoral programs. I'm finishing a masters in music composition right now, but that application round consisted of exactly one application to the school where I had just completed my bachelor's degree.

 

I think I successfully avoided one or two of the mistakes you mention, but I certainly fell into some others. I think I applied to a good mix of different schools: five private, four public -- some with large schools of music, some with smaller departments. Going into the process I thought three schools were long shots, a fourth would be hard but not impossible, and I thought I had a relatively decent chance at the other five. One of those five receives 10-15 composition DMA applications a year and accepts 5-6. That rejection hit hard. It wasn't a top choice, but I had thought that if I get only one acceptance, that would be the one.

 

Not every school was a great fit, and I see that now. That's something I think I have in common with your applications from last year. One in particular was a terrible fit; I applied solely for geographic reasons. Won't do that again. Looking back, I think some of my application materials were a little too general. I found out early in the process that one of the composers I would have liked to study with was on sabbatical. That kind of scared me off of mentioning anybody by name in any of the applications. 

 

I think the main problem might be my portfolio. I don't mean that there is something wrong with it or that it is of subpar quality, I just don't think admissions committees see music like mine very often. I had suspected this for a while, and a very trusted professor of mine told me as much recently. 

 

I'm rambling at this point, and I could go on for paragraphs and paragraphs, but I think it boils down to fit. It wasn't for a lack of trying, but I only found one true fit. 

 

Edit: I want to clarify that when I mean that committees don't see music like mine very often, I mean that literally. The actual music that appears on the page sometimes looks like someone doing a bad Arvo Pärt impression. It sounds very different, but the notations are extremely simple, and I think that works against me. 

Edited March 6, 2013 by run_kmc

[TheComposer500]

I'm still waiting to hear from three schools.

-Carnegie Mellon University

-University of Southern California

-New York University

So far, I have 0/8. I just need 1 acceptance...

[TheComposer500]

I think I am having the same problem with my portfolio too! My music notation is simple and accessible, but the rhythms can be quirky and tongue in cheek. Everything sounds good and may sound different from what one expects from looking at the page. However, it's not what is in style at the moment. It's not abstract conceptualism, electronic, or micro-tonal. I'm forging old styles together to make something fresh and palate-cleansing.

Thanks! This is my first year applying for doctoral programs. I'm finishing a masters in music composition right now, but that application round consisted of exactly one application to the school where I had just completed my bachelor's degree.

I think I successfully avoided one or two of the mistakes you mention, but I certainly fell into some others. I think I applied to a good mix of different schools: five private, four public -- some with large schools of music, some with smaller departments. Going into the process I thought three schools were long shots, a fourth would be hard but not impossible, and I thought I had a relatively decent chance at the other five. One of those five receives 10-15 composition DMA applications a year and accepts 5-6. That rejection hit hard. It wasn't a top choice, but I had thought that if I get only one acceptance, that would be the one.

Not every school was a great fit, and I see that now. That's something I think I have in common with your applications from last year. One in particular was a terrible fit; I applied solely for geographic reasons. Won't do that again. Looking back, I think some of my application materials were a little too general. I found out early in the process that one of the composers I would have liked to study with was on sabbatical. That kind of scared me off of mentioning anybody by name in any of the applications.

I think the main problem might be my portfolio. I don't mean that there is something wrong with it or that it is of subpar quality, I just don't think admissions committees see music like mine very often. I had suspected this for a while, and a very trusted professor of mine told me as much recently.

I'm rambling at this point, and I could go on for paragraphs and paragraphs, but I think it boils down to fit. It wasn't for a lack of trying, but I only found one true fit.

Edit: I want to clarify that when I mean that committees don't see music like mine very often, I mean that literally. The actual music that appears on the page sometimes looks like someone doing a bad Arvo Pärt impression. It sounds very different, but the notations are extremely simple, and I think that works against me.

[echopw]

I'm still waiting to hear from three schools.

-Carnegie Mellon University

-University of Southern California

-New York University

So far, I have 0/8. I just need 1 acceptance...

Maybe u will receive admission letter later, I got rej just now.

[runn]

I think I am having the same problem with my portfolio too! My music notation is simple and accessible, but the rhythms can be quirky and tongue in cheek. Everything sounds good and may sound different from what one expects from looking at the page. However, it's not what is in style at the moment. It's not abstract conceptualism, electronic, or micro-tonal. I'm forging old styles together to make something fresh and palate-cleansing.

Someone feels my pain! Example: wrote a movement of a larger piece last week for SATB choir. No meter changes, no rhythms outside of half and quarter notes, and a grand total of three accidentals. Even I think "yikes this is simplistic" when I look at it. If you never listen to it, you wouldn't realize that there are two different meters going on at the same time in places, and that a tonal center is very hard to pin down even though there is barely any chromaticism.

I could totally see something like that being dismissed on sight. I don't say any of this because I think I'm some sort of unique flower who needs special handling. My music is just deceptive in a way that I don't think is especially common.

Edited March 6, 2013 by run_kmc

[teenxenakisfan]

Maybe u will receive admission letter later, I got rej just now.

 

For NYU? I'm so sorry to hear that, I know you really wanted that program. I think that film scoring, more than any other genre of composition, would be extremely subjective to judge. So don't give up! 

 

At least this means NYU is finally getting round to notifying though, so we can all get some damn closure. They're the last school I'm waiting to hear from. In at Goldsmiths London and U of Manchester for electroacoustic comp. 

[SunnyComposer]

Someone feels my pain! Example: wrote a movement of a larger piece last week for SATB choir. No meter changes, no rhythms outside of half and quarter notes, and a grand total of three accidentals. Even I think "yikes this is simplistic" when I look at it. If you never listen to it, you wouldn't realize that there are two different meters going on at the same time in places, and that a tonal center is very hard to pin down even though there is barely any chromaticism.

I could totally see something like that being dismissed on sight. I don't say any of this because I think I'm some sort of unique flower who needs special handling. My music is just deceptive in a way that I don't think is especially common.

 

I once had a professor tell me, "If you want to play the game, you need to write music that will be competitive."  It was a strange lessons, because in effect, he was saying that all you need to do is get your foot in the door, and then you can write whatever music you want.  In your case, maybe it's just a matter of making those complex elements obvious in a visual way.  I'm not sure, but I totally struggle with the same things.  It's a shame that most of our time spent in application is trying to "sell" ourselves as one thing, and of course, we each have more to offer that can possibly summed up in 15 minutes of music and a 1000 word essay.

[runn]

I once had a professor tell me, "If you want to play the game, you need to write music that will be competitive."  It was a strange lessons, because in effect, he was saying that all you need to do is get your foot in the door, and then you can write whatever music you want.  In your case, maybe it's just a matter of making those complex elements obvious in a visual way.  I'm not sure, but I totally struggle with the same things.  It's a shame that most of our time spent in application is trying to "sell" ourselves as one thing, and of course, we each have more to offer that can possibly summed up in 15 minutes of music and a 1000 word essay.

 

I guess I need to decide if that's a game worth playing. There's actually nothing stopping me from becoming a reclusive hermit of a composer or from walking away entirely and finding other fulfilling creative pursuits like cat juggling.

 

 

edit: for reference, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bGVT4-1DBU

Edited March 6, 2013 by run_kmc

[TheComposer500]

Maybe u will receive admission letter later, I got rej just now.

 

I am sooooo sorry that you got a rejection from NYU!!! How did you find out? Email or letter?

 

 

Someone feels my pain! Example: wrote a movement of a larger piece last week for SATB choir. No meter changes, no rhythms outside of half and quarter notes, and a grand total of three accidentals. Even I think "yikes this is simplistic" when I look at it. If you never listen to it, you wouldn't realize that there are two different meters going on at the same time in places, and that a tonal center is very hard to pin down even though there is barely any chromaticism.

I could totally see something like that being dismissed on sight. I don't say any of this because I think I'm some sort of unique flower who needs special handling. My music is just deceptive in a way that I don't think is especially common.

 

Same, maybe our music will click more in 10 years or so?  I used to be more show-offey before undergrad, but was scolded for it.  I went to the extreme of creating simplistic-looking music that sounds different from what it looks like on the page.  It requires a lot of careful planning and thought to stay between the lines of tonal and atonal music.

[SunnyComposer]

I guess I need to decide if that's a game worth playing. There's actually nothing stopping me from becoming a reclusive hermit of a composer or from walking away entirely and finding other fulfilling creative pursuits like cat juggling.

 

 

edit: for reference, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bGVT4-1DBU

 

"The Jerk"!  I love it.  In my opinion, there's plenty of time in the day to be a composer AND professional cat-juggler.     

[Daisy Spiegelman]

Ya' see? Now there I'm ahead of the game. I have three cats.

[echopw]

For NYU? I'm so sorry to hear that, I know you really wanted that program. I think that film scoring, more than any other genre of composition, would be extremely subjective to judge. So don't give up! 

 

At least this means NYU is finally getting round to notifying though, so we can all get some damn closure. They're the last school I'm waiting to hear from. In at Goldsmiths London and U of Manchester for electroacoustic comp. 

 

Yes, NYU. Thanks for your encouragement, I will reapply next year. Actually my major is accounting, and dont have any experiences. I think they mind it. One of Chinese studying at this program told me, and she also applied two years. So wish you good luck!

[echopw]

I am sooooo sorry that you got a rejection from NYU!!! How did you find out? Email or letter?

 

 

 

Same, maybe our music will click more in 10 years or so?  I used to be more show-offey before undergrad, but was scolded for it.  I went to the extreme of creating simplistic-looking music that sounds different from what it looks like on the page.  It requires a lot of careful planning and thought to stay between the lines of tonal and atonal music.

 Email.

[echopw]

After got rejection(NYU-MM-film scoring), I think maybe I have these three lacks:

 

1. Dont have enough experiences, my undergraduate major is accounting, and dont have working experiences, no works for movie or TV programs;

 

2.Dont have  famous person's recommondation;

 

3.This  troubles me a lot, should I write a score uniquely, such as Chinese minority music; or a complex score that is hard to play.

 

Could someone here give me suggestions? 

 

The first and second problems, will be solved during the next following year, I already got a job working for a Chinese famous music director. But the third one, I need help.

[Counterpointer]

After got rejection(NYU-MM-film scoring), I think maybe I have these three lacks:   1. Dont have enough experiences, my undergraduate major is accounting, and dont have working experiences, no works for movie or TV programs;   2.Dont have  famous person's recommondation;   3.This  troubles me a lot, should I write a score uniquely, such as Chinese minority music; or a complex score that is hard to play.   Could someone here give me suggestions?    The first and second problems, will be solved during the next following year, I already got a job working for a Chinese famous music director. But the third one, I need help.

I personally know a friend studying at NYU for film music. He studied at my university (Indiana Bloomington) and he was masters student in performance with minor in composition. Not to offend you, but I was never fond of his music, to me his music lacked creativity. He composed a lot of tango, and other Latin dances (he was from Mexico). Perhaps it would be great to have some Chinese elements in your music, but I don't think you have to write super complex music. If you recently got a job in the field, that would make your application a lot better in the following year. You should probably just submit what you do for your job. In the mean time, work on your English and try to score as high as possible on TOEFL. Some people say you only need to clear the minimum, but really, if you had a choice between a native English speaker and international with similar applications, who would you choose? If you score 100+ on TOEFL, they may not be so concerned about the language barrier. (Never mind if you already have a good TOEFL score) Also, it may be great to get to know some people in US. Even if your director is famous in China, I'm not sure NYU faculties would recognize him. Also, would your director be able to write you LOR in good English? Indeed, it is very difficult to apply to schools in US if you are international..... I'm also international but I did my undergrad in US so it's different

[Frangelico]

I personally know a friend studying at NYU for film music. He studied at my university (Indiana Bloomington) and he was masters student in performance with minor in composition. Not to offend you, but I was never fond of his music, to me his music lacked creativity. He composed a lot of tango, and other Latin dances (he was from Mexico). Perhaps it would be great to have some Chinese elements in your music, but I don't think you have to write super complex music. If you recently got a job in the field, that would make your application a lot better in the following year. You should probably just submit what you do for your job. In the mean time, work on your English and try to score as high as possible on TOEFL. Some people say you only need to clear the minimum, but really, if you had a choice between a native English speaker and international with similar applications, who would you choose? If you score 100+ on TOEFL, they may not be so concerned about the language barrier. (Never mind if you already have a good TOEFL score) Also, it may be great to get to know some people in US. Even if your director is famous in China, I'm not sure NYU faculties would recognize him. Also, would your director be able to write you LOR in good English? Indeed, it is very difficult to apply to schools in US if you are international..... I'm also international but I did my undergrad in US so it's different

 

I would agree that bringing some Chinese elements into your music would be a positive move - as international applicants we're probably reliant a little more heavily on the diversity factor working in our favour.  Good luck with the new job!  I'm sure it will benefit your applications next time

 

On another note: has anyone not heard from McGill?  With acceptances, rejections, and a waitlist posted in the results over the last couple of weeks, I'm a little concerned mine still says 'ready for review'.

 

Also, does anyone have any insight into/impressions of Cambridge vs Oxford for PhD/DPhil - I'm wondering about the general vibe amongst the grads, particularly, or if anyone has any other useful tidbits too.  (It's difficult to quantify any major differences on paper, and equally great supervisors at both, though it's likely neither will give me any funding )

[Bren]

Hey guys, glad to see some other music people waiting for their notices. I am focusing on Music Business. So far I have applied to NYU (like so many others, I see), Northeast U., and Berklee. I am also going to apply to CSU-Northridge, haven't sent that one in yet (deadline is May 1st). Have only heard from Northeastern (rejection). I am really happy to see not many people have heard ftom NYU yet. The wait sucks though.

[echopw]

I personally know a friend studying at NYU for film music. He studied at my university (Indiana Bloomington) and he was masters student in performance with minor in composition. Not to offend you, but I was never fond of his music, to me his music lacked creativity. He composed a lot of tango, and other Latin dances (he was from Mexico). Perhaps it would be great to have some Chinese elements in your music, but I don't think you have to write super complex music. If you recently got a job in the field, that would make your application a lot better in the following year. You should probably just submit what you do for your job. In the mean time, work on your English and try to score as high as possible on TOEFL. Some people say you only need to clear the minimum, but really, if you had a choice between a native English speaker and international with similar applications, who would you choose? If you score 100+ on TOEFL, they may not be so concerned about the language barrier. (Never mind if you already have a good TOEFL score) Also, it may be great to get to know some people in US. Even if your director is famous in China, I'm not sure NYU faculties would recognize him. Also, would your director be able to write you LOR in good English? Indeed, it is very difficult to apply to schools in US if you are international..... I'm also international but I did my undergrad in US so it's different

 

 

Thanks for your response, it helps me a lot. Wish you everything goes with well on your music career!  Thank you:)

I would agree that bringing some Chinese elements into your music would be a positive move - as international applicants we're probably reliant a little more heavily on the diversity factor working in our favour.  Good luck with the new job!  I'm sure it will benefit your applications next time

 

On another note: has anyone not heard from McGill?  With acceptances, rejections, and a waitlist posted in the results over the last couple of weeks, I'm a little concerned mine still says 'ready for review'.

 

Also, does anyone have any insight into/impressions of Cambridge vs Oxford for PhD/DPhil - I'm wondering about the general vibe amongst the grads, particularly, or if anyone has any other useful tidbits too.  (It's difficult to quantify any major differences on paper, and equally great supervisors at both, though it's likely neither will give me any funding )

Thanks for your help, I will be more diligent, thank you:)

[Counterpointer]

Also, does anyone have any insight into/impressions of Cambridge vs Oxford for PhD/DPhil - I'm wondering about the general vibe amongst the grads, particularly, or if anyone has any other useful tidbits too.  (It's difficult to quantify any major differences on paper, and equally great supervisors at both, though it's likely neither will give me any funding )

Someone in this forum a few pages ago has posted (maybe it was previous years) a survey of Ivy league (and other top schools) professors' alma maters. It started with something like this::: Harvard (4~5), Yale (4~5), Oxford (4), Cambridge (2)... something like that. I can't remember exactly. I believe this was musicology ONLY. I think that Ox+bridge are very difficult to get in, and also have great brand names... Also, they may be getting top applicants from across Europe.. In US, we get some International but maybe a little less than Ox+Bridge.. But it's just my guess. 

[Karajan]

Also, does anyone have any insight into/impressions of Cambridge vs Oxford for PhD/DPhil - I'm wondering about the general vibe amongst the grads, particularly, or if anyone has any other useful tidbits too.  (It's difficult to quantify any major differences on paper, and equally great supervisors at both, though it's likely neither will give me any funding )

 

Send me a PM and I'll chat with you about this :-)  I'm an Oxbridge grad.

[Karajan]

Someone in this forum a few pages ago has posted (maybe it was previous years) a survey of Ivy league (and other top schools) professors' alma maters. It started with something like this::: Harvard (4~5), Yale (4~5), Oxford (4), Cambridge (2)... something like that. I can't remember exactly. I believe this was musicology ONLY. I think that Ox+bridge are very difficult to get in, and also have great brand names... Also, they may be getting top applicants from across Europe.. In US, we get some International but maybe a little less than Ox+Bridge.. But it's just my guess. 

 

Yes! I posted that list... Should be in here somewhere!

[Frangelico]

Someone in this forum a few pages ago has posted (maybe it was previous years) a survey of Ivy league (and other top schools) professors' alma maters. It started with something like this::: Harvard (4~5), Yale (4~5), Oxford (4), Cambridge (2)... something like that. I can't remember exactly. I believe this was musicology ONLY. I think that Ox+bridge are very difficult to get in, and also have great brand names... Also, they may be getting top applicants from across Europe.. In US, we get some International but maybe a little less than Ox+Bridge.. But it's just my guess. 

Thanks for that - I've come across the notion that a UK degree won't get you a US job a number of times, and the list shows that this isn't always the case.  (However, as a non-American, a US job isn't necessary something I'd go for...not that I'd rule it out at this point though!)

[Frangelico]

Send me a PM and I'll chat with you about this :-)  I'm an Oxbridge grad.

Cheers, will do!