NDSEG Fellowship 2012-2013

[InquilineKea]

Is anyone else here applying?

I'm wondering - does it matter that much to them if you've held leadership positions or not? And what do they look for in applicants, as compared to what the NSF Fellowship looks for in applicants?

I'm also wondering - could trying to define my own research project count as "leadership", if it means trying to get multiple professors to advise me on my project, even if my advisers don't invest much time or effort into my project? (and what if my project ultimately delivers interesting but unpublishable results?) Ultimately, it's practice for the future, especially since very few 1st-year grad students try to define their own research projects, so it might be better than nothing.

I also try to get more geoscience people interested in social media, and I've managed to recruit quite a number of science people onto Quora. I've also set up a huge number of boards there - many which have lots of followers, and who have posted additional links onto the board (which makes the boards even more useful as a potential resource to others, and has stimulated some discussion).

In general though - grad students aren't going to have much credibility as leaders - period. They're going to have to build some track record first if others are to spend time on them. The one thing is that I'm extremely interdisciplinary, so I can never attract followers in any group or club. I generally try to define my own direction independently, and then get followers later - which is something I've done a lot of on Quora. But what if I, say, have 1,000+ followers on Quora and hundreds of followers on Google+? I'm not a particularly big fan of those metrics, but one physicist who knows how the NSF works did suggest that I include Quora follower count on my NSF application. And having followers could possibly indicate "leadership potential" (whatever that means) in the future.

Also, as a last question - could having a position in an online gaming clan (long ago) count as leadership experience at all? What about being the owner of a Facebook group that had hundreds of members? (though - alas - Facebook has pretty much annihilated its old groups). And can being a panelist on Reddit AskScience count as volunteer work? I do know for sure that NSF Fellowships do look favorably on social media as possible platforms for science outreach, but NDSEG is different. I also have a pretty low signal to noise ratio (the "success" of any proposal depends on timing, competition, potential collaborators, and location just as much as its intellectual merit, and since it is not always possible to know *all* of these factors - I try to invest in many things in hopes that one of them will become a runaway success - sort of like back when I created 50 Facebook groups and a few of them attracted hundreds of followers - one of them even got me in touch with a relative of Francis Crick who maintains much of his old documents and has collaborated with his biographer).

I know all of the previous stuff sounds really corny, and I don't feel that comfortable mentioning it all. But I kind of feel like I have to do it if I am to have a shot. In the end - I suppose - leadership is about influence, and the Internet is one of the best metrics of one's amount of overall influence in the end (it's sort of like citation count in a sense).

Edited September 29, 2012 by InquilineKea

[Usmivka]

Howdy, I'll try to get at these, sorry I didn't see it sooner. I'm surprised no one else is posting about the NDSEG yet. I got awarded an NDSEG in 2011, so hopefully I can provide some insight (although most of these questions are so specific to you that I'm not sure I have any more expertise than the next guy!).

1. They don't seem to actually check your references for leadership positions, and it is a science focused panel that reviews your proposal, so I think the leadership criteria is secondary.

2. The major difference, in my view is that the NDSEG does not hold outreach as a priority. But outreach activities can often be recast as leadership roles or efforts in the national interest.

3. Self directed research can be used as leadership, but I'd be wary of playing up lack of adviser investment in your activities.

4. It can't hurt to add "follower" counts as a metric of outreach/leadership, but I doubt it won't carry the same weight as running a field expedition or managing an organization unless a big chunk of the country is tuning in

5. I think the reviewers for NDSEG tend to be slightly less geeky than the average scientist (though who knows), so I'm not going to comment on whether running a clan, starting a facebook group, or similar is something you want to share or they care about or not.

6. I think the Reddit AskScience activity sounds like a good thing to play up for NSF, again I'm not sure that NDSEG will care that much.

7. I like your last line, and the attitude that brings across. Maybe the reviewers will too.

Good luck!

[InquilineKea]

Okay. Thanks so much for all of your wonderful answers! I'm also wondering - does NDSEG weigh GPA and LORs differently from NSF?

Edited October 20, 2012 by InquilineKea

[InquilineKea]

Is it a good idea to send transcripts from your first semester of graduate study even if you don't have grades yet? (just to show them what classes you're taking)

Edited November 1, 2012 by InquilineKea

[Usmivka]

I don't know about how NDSEG evaluates, I got zero feedback from them, unlike the NSF folks who at least give you a few sentences.

If you are sending a transcript, it should include all courses you are currently registered for without any extra work on your part (at your Uni anyway). At least up until a few years ago grad and undergrad courses did not get separate transcripts.

[InquilineKea]

Ah I see. Yeah - I'm just not sure about the transcript thing since it would cost additional money to send the transcript to them, and I'm not sure if they would consider the info that useful. Maybe I should just email them(?)

[synorg]

if you read the instructions, it says "and from any institution at which you have been a graduate student unless you started on or after June, 2012."

This seems pretty clear cut to me. Reviewers probably spend 10-15 minutes on each application, do you really think they're going to pay close attention/care about what classes you're in now? If you really wish to name drop a class, then perhaps you could mention it in the personal essay "in the _____ course that i'm taking now at ____ university, i have ______" or whatever

[synorg]

my feeling is that the only time it would be worth drawing attention to a specific class is if it either a) had a profound influence on your academic/career direction and/or b ) is very obviously applicable to the missions and focus of the agency/foundation which funds the fellowship in question (in this case, the DoD, Army, Navy, etc.)

Edited November 6, 2012 by synorg

[anacron]

thought I'd add my two cents since I am thinking about the same thing... I name dropped some pertinent classes if they were strongly related/necessary to my research area. I'm doing projects for some classes that are part of my research so name dropping was my way of saying that I'm making progress on research.

[Chuck]

Does anyone else find it strange that the NDSEG is interested in "community and volunteer work"? Community volunteering is all well and good, but I haven't come across any other academic fellowship that gives any weight to this sort of thing. In fact, extensive extramural commitment would seem a bit distracting to the mission of the fellowship. I wonder what they are looking for here?

[guttata]

Does anyone else find it strange that the NDSEG is interested in "community and volunteer work"? Community volunteering is all well and good, but I haven't come across any other academic fellowship that gives any weight to this sort of thing. In fact, extensive extramural commitment would seem a bit distracting to the mission of the fellowship. I wonder what they are looking for here?

Do a search for "Broader Impacts" on everything the NSF asks for down south.... It's not that uncommon. How is your work immediately impacting those around you? How are you impacting others' experiences in science?

[gblob331]

So I got a pretty mediocre score on my GRE subject test, but I've got a pretty good general score and I think my app in general aside from my subject test is pretty good. Should I bother to submit my subject score?

[Usmivka]

Without knowing your field, and the caveats that entails, no. I really don't think they care much about test scores in general (they don't give any feedback, so there is no evidence either way), and most grad school applicants don't take subject tests. There is so little to the NDSEG application, I personally believe they are more or less just reading the letters of rec and skimming your list of activities/awards/whatnot.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Usmivka

[InquilineKea]

I know that the NDSEG sends fellowship offers at around May 1st (which is after the April 15th deadline).

So then I have a question: is it possible to send grad programs notice that you won if (if you win it), and then possibly get a rejection reversed? (sort of like for the NSF) And is it possible to turn down an offer after the April 15th deadline because you got the NDSEG, which made you decide to switch schools? (it doesn't necessarily even have to be a rejection reversal - it could also be that a professor at a school that accepted you would *only* be able to take you on only if you had external funding).

[lke]

Question for fellow NDSEG applicants (or past awardees?):

I have a first-author publication that is currently under review. I received the reviewer comments, and they are mostly positive, with just a few requested additional experiments. Someone in my old research lab is finishing these up for re-submission of the manuscript in January, and the results so far are good, so I don't think I will have any issue getting it accepted. Because this publication is not officially accepted or published, I do not want to put it in the "publications" section of the application, since this section requires specific information on the issue and date of publication. What do you think is the best way to highlight this publication elsewhere in my application? Or, do you think it would be OK to put this in the publications section, despite it not being accepted yet?

Thanks!

[guttata]

Put it in. Format could be, roughly:

Jones, Smith, and Smith. In re-review. This is your title. Journal.

[InquilineKea]

For awards and honors - what should I put in for the "presenter name/email/phone" when I got the award from a college? What if the award came from another institution?

[Chande]

InquilineKea, did you ever figure out what to do about that? I'm trying to figure out what I should put for scholarships and the like where the award came from an organization and I never had any person at the organization I was in contact with at any point.

[InquilineKea]

No - I never found out what to do about it yet... I'm trying to contact previous NDSEG winners from the NDSEG website - it's likely that they're the best sources.

[buffalowizard]

For better or for worse, I'm going with the following format:

Name: Office of the Registrar

E-mail: registrar@college.edu

Phone: [registrar's office phone number]

[InquilineKea]

I just decided to go out and list the name of the department head or the department secretary - depending on which one of them knew me better.

==

Okay - so now that we've submitted our NDSEG apps - does anyone know how we can get a downloadable copy of everything we've sent it? I know that some people got downloadable copies of their "past research" statements.

[lypiphera]

I want to bump this thread because I'm curious about people's research proposals submitted to NDSEG. Basically, I'm curious about how much research needs to relate (directly or indirectly) to national defense.  I am in psychology, which would fall under Cognitive, Neural, and Behavioral Sciences, and I'm unsure if my research needs to be related to defense/security somehow, or if it just needs to be in the discipline and doesn't need to have a direct application to national security/defense.  What are your thoughts on this?

[giles]

I want to bump this thread because I'm curious about people's research proposals submitted to NDSEG. Basically, I'm curious about how much research needs to relate (directly or indirectly) to national defense.  I am in psychology, which would fall under Cognitive, Neural, and Behavioral Sciences, and I'm unsure if my research needs to be related to defense/security somehow, or if it just needs to be in the discipline and doesn't need to have a direct application to national security/defense.  What are your thoughts on this?

 

I'm in Chemical Engineering, and when I applied I made sure I had a couple of sentences that spelled out exactly why the DoD should be interested in my research. I think you only need to address it; don't beat it into the ground. Your focus should be on your actual research. If you talk at length about all the wonderful ways the research could be of use to the DoD, this may come across as contrived.

[giles]

And as far as if you stand a chance in the less directly related psychology fields, see the GradCafe results page where someone in Cognitive and Behavorial Sciences won the fellowship in 2011 (http://www.thegradcafe.com/survey/index.php?q=ndseg&t=a&o=&pp=25). If you spin your research interests in a good way, their uniqueness may end up working in your favor.

[tarrman]

I'm in ECE looking to DSP, and I mentioned a little about radar. I've seen essays from winners though that either didn't mention a defense application or the research proposed was very vague.