SAIS application for Fall 2013

[Revolution]

 

Revolution at the MBA Buffet...awesome!

 

 

Ha. This is actually accurate. A top MBA is a truly transformational epic experience: awesome professional and social opportunities on every level.

[lomsaku]

Revolution, go away.

[rhodeislander]

You're wrong again. It's about being in an environment where I can meet people whom I have a lot in common with. All else being equal, I'm much more likely to meet a woman with whom I can relate to, at a top b-school than some random bar. We most likely would have gone to similar top undergrads, have mutual friends, worked in similar jobs, and have similar life aspirations and goals.

 

[rhodeislander]

Although I must say, for those of you saying he's a troll because no one could possibly be this douchetastic in real life....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/fashion/03native.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&
 

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/confessions-of-an-ivy-league-frat-boy-inside-dartmouths-hazing-abuses-20120328

 

They're certainly out there...

Edited March 22, 2013 by rhodeislander

[Kadisha]

Although I must say, for those of you saying he's a troll because no one could possibly be this douchetastic in real life....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/fashion/03native.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/confessions-of-an-ivy-league-frat-boy-inside-dartmouths-hazing-abuses-20120328

 

They're certainly out there...

 

That's pretty funny. Could care less about people like that (not that they don't matter when it comes to real world networking) but I am of the opinion that the American dream isn't just a catch phrase. 4 years ago I never thought I'd be accepted into SAIS or SIPA. Revolution should just learn to get over himself and realize there's more than one way to get what you want. You just have to ambitious and smart and not take no for an answer. There's a reason why they say only 1% of the US is prepared to do what it takes to reach top positions in the private and public sector. 

[123seekay123]

@riverguide: Your post about SAIS women made me laugh out loud in my office... where I really should be working, not agonizing over new gradcafe posts. Thanks for making me smile. 

I've spent far too much time on this forum this week, whoops!

 

And yes, good line riverguide. I don't think SAIS women are weeping for missing out on Revolution.

[lobsterphone]

Hey Ariana14 et al, I just got back from visiting SAIS (IDEV), GWU (IDS), Georgetown (MIDP), and American (MAIDS) this week.  As a disclaimer, I'm headed the NGO and non-profit route and have little interest in security studies, MBAs, foreign service, etc.  For everyone else, hopefully this is helpful (or just TMI)!    

 

JHU SAIS (IDEV, Bologna)

I met with Erin Cameron, Associate Director in Admissions, and a current IDEV (in DC) student named Mark.  It was spring break, so I didn't get to talk to faculty or visit classes.  SAIS clearly emphasizes quantitative/economics/econometrics, and the IDEV students actually have to take the most classes out of all the concentrations.  You would likely end up taking 5-7 econ courses, and as IDEV, you HAVE to take microeconomics during the pre-term period, since it conflicts with one of the core/gateway IDEV classes in the fall.  Although I'm concerned about missing out on DC opportunities in Bologna, the tradeoff seems to be a much more close-knit Bologna student community (with about 17 IDEV kids out of 200), smaller classes, better faculty interaction, and possibly less competition/distraction from all them type-A+ folks in DC.  They don't advise interning/working during the semester, but Bologna does have some nearby internship opportunities or on-campus research positions.  The IDEV course requirements are changing but are currently listed here.  Bologna has a lot more European focused and energy policy courses; the Asia regional courses are offered in DC only.  The largest class on either campus (most likely for the econ core courses) are around 60.  Their version of a capstone project is a practicum, and there are also additional practical spring break trips that are student organized (often backed with SAIS funding).  I didn't get the sense that they were necessarily humanitarian focused, and it almost seems that'd I'd come out as a quasi-economist with neoconservative leanings.  (JK?  The 48% private sector jobs result is somewhat telling.)  There's obviously all-star faculty, but the program and class requirements seem to leave little room for flexibility/specialization, or even the idea of aiming for "interdisciplinary" studies.  For instance, you only take 2 regional classes.  Erin even suggested that it's better to come in knowing what you want to do, i.e. strategy and security for a private sector company, and work backwards to choose your classes to get those skills.  I also got the feeling that administration was disorganized, and not always having the same academic advisor reminded me too much of the huge public school treatment.  Second year scholarships and fellowships are few--Erin admitted they don't have much funding to give out.  

 

Georgetown (Public Policy Institute, for the new Master in International Development Policy program)

Met with Jessye Rothstein in Admissions, Professor Jennifer Tobin, and with two current MIDP students.  I also attended a class with Professor Netta Eissa, which was badass, theoretical, and applicable all in one.  It's a brand new program, and 2014 will be their first graduating class of about 20 students.  The students and professors were genuinely friendly and it was super easy to reach everyone (ahem, SAIS/SIPA, cough cough.....)  So Tobin pretty much laid it all out--their BIG focus is on microecon and impact evaluation, because that's where they see development headed, with more pressure to demonstrate results of programs to donors.  I heard some comments from current students that the professors aren't necessarily practitioners, and that there are still some kinks to work out.  Tobin also commented that the MSFS MA in Human Development program is much more "touchy feely," whatever that means.  A small cohort has obvious benefits (you take the entire two years of courses together, with the exception of 1 elective per semester), and since there are no PhD students to compete with, faculty consider master students first and foremost for any new opportunities.  Downsides are there are few established extracurriculars--there's a brand new Int Dev club to bring speakers to campus, and the program is yet to complete their first capstone project--but that means lots of room for you to take on initiative and help provide feedback.  Also huge difference--it's a policy school, not an IR or IA school.

 

GWU Elliott, MA International Development Studies

I met with the IDS Program Director Sean Roberts, Professor Christina Fink, and a current IDS student.  The program is MUCH more practitioner/skills oriented with a self-created concentration.  They highly encourage you to seek full-time, part-time, or internship work during the semester.  (Erin at SAIS suggested this was because they have a much younger incoming class.)  There is a required second-year capstone project, in which students vet and choose their client, and a required summer internship abroad in the summer.  Same idea of a cohort--you take classes together in the same sequence--which also precludes any semester-long study abroad options.  There are some short-term study abroad options, though.  I heard over and over that econ was a much smaller focus, with only one required class, which Sean Roberts even called "econ lite"!  Both Roberts and Fink are anthropologists, so that makes sense, I guess.  Also, the program is fairly new and modeled after American's MA Int Dev, so there are definitely some weak points.  For instance, they don't have any Africanists in house.  Uh.............. But their public health and East Asian concentrations are supposed to be great!  I'm wary of the econ lite perspective, but they definitely have human-focused bottom-up/grassroots development in mind.  

 

American University, M.A. International Development

I met with the program director Vidyamali Samarasinghe and sat in on an Environment & Development course with Professor Robin Broad.  I wasn't super impressed with the class quality--seemed like stuff I already covered in undergrad, like explaining the origins of the World Bank.  However, Vidya emphasized that unlike SAIS, their program is built with the idea that development work should always start with considerations of human condition and impact.  They have electives if you'd like to get more into development economics and program evaluation and monitoring, but it's not required for all MA's.  They have strong regional concentrations and their 5 core faculty are distinct in that they are fully appointed to SIS, and all practitioners with prior fieldwork experience--so they all seemed well balanced.  Unlike GWU or Georgetown, there is an option to focus more on academic research and producing a thesis if you're pursuing a PhD route.  Or, you can do a capstone/practicum, but that program is also very new.  Oh also, they were welcoming and actually seemed to care about wanting you there.  Ha.

 

Unfortunately, I won't have the chance to attend any of the admitted student days, so if you can share feedback on these schools in addition to SIPA or Fletcher, I'd love to know!  I'm thinking that SAIS or SIPA are my best bet for getting serious skills/education and getting in an alumni network that will last me throughout my career, even if the curriculum doesn't feel "good" or practical at the time.  Food for thought here.  I welcome your thoughts!

 

P.S. If there is a better thread for me to post this hot mess, please tell me so I don't become a spammer. 

 

 

[flyingjellyfish]

@leadbelly - Your post is super helpful!  Thanks for sharing

[flyingjellyfish]

Whoops- that should have been @lobsterphone!  Did you change your name or am I just going crazy?  Anyway very helpful, thank you for posting here and in the SAIS Bologna thread!

[Ariana14]

Thank you @lobsterphone for that information. I have decided against SAIS after talking to a current professor. It sounds like a wonderful program, but it lacks the humanitarian focus I'm looking for, and the curriculum is generally too structured to allow me to self-design a concentration the way I'd like to. Best of luck to all of you!

 

P.S.- I do have a friend at the Bologna campus who absolutely loves it. He is doing European studies and cannot say enough wonderful things about his classmates and the Bologna campus.

[Wanderlust2013]

Thank you @lobsterphone for that information. I have decided against SAIS after talking to a current professor. It sounds like a wonderful program, but it lacks the humanitarian focus I'm looking for, and the curriculum is generally too structured to allow me to self-design a concentration the way I'd like to. Best of luck to all of you!

 

P.S.- I do have a friend at the Bologna campus who absolutely loves it. He is doing European studies and cannot say enough wonderful things about his classmates and the Bologna campus.

 

The lack of humanitarian focus (or really just the lack of course options) is exactly what I'm struggling with in deciding between SAIS and a few other programs. I like the quantitative/econ focus of SAIS because of my interest in program evaluation. SAIS has an excellent reputation and a huge array of classes in this area. However, I also have a very strong interest in forced migration, and it's the field I want to work in after graduating. Browsing through the course lists, SAIS is pretty weak in this area. It's not necessarily a deal breaker because field experience will trump coursework, but still it makes me question whether SAIS would be the best fit overall.

 

Can I ask what program you're leaning toward or decided on instead? I'm weighing SIPA and Fletcher myself.  

[riverguide]

At SAIS DC today. I am attending classes. PM me if you have any questions. I'll be here for another day.

[saishopeful]

Revolution,

 

I read through some of your posts in this thread. Your decision to turn down sais is a personal one, so i'm not here to judge you on that front. However I do have similar career interests as you and i'm considering applying to sais next year. People i talked to think that sais is actually better than mba programs for macro investment research because the curriculum is so econ heavy while mba finance courses are more focused on corporate finance, accounting, and valuation, thus making it more well suited for banking and long-short equity research. And world bank/imf/fed should be fairly easy to get coming out of sais, and aren't those jobs good paths to macro hedge funds? Have you considered that route? Aside from the whole stupid "prestige" aspect I'm just curious to know about your decision to turn down sais despite a generous scholarship.

 

Thanks.

[Revolution]

Revolution,

 

I read through some of your posts in this thread. Your decision to turn down sais is a personal one, so i'm not here to judge you on that front. However I do have similar career interests as you and i'm considering applying to sais next year. People i talked to think that sais is actually better than mba programs for macro investment research because the curriculum is so econ heavy while mba finance courses are more focused on corporate finance, accounting, and valuation, thus making it more well suited for banking and long-short equity research. And world bank/imf/fed should be fairly easy to get coming out of sais, and aren't those jobs good paths to macro hedge funds? Have you considered that route? Aside from the whole stupid "prestige" aspect I'm just curious to know about your decision to turn down sais despite a generous scholarship.

 

Thanks.

 

 

1. I have not officially turned down SAIS yet. I'm most likely going to the open house in D.C. and will make my final decision afterwards. I still have a few questions that were unanswered and am waiting to hear back.

 

2. I agree that SAIS' academic curriculum may be better suited for macro research, but the concern is job placement and recruiting. Classroom learning is secondary. After all, this is a professional degree, not an academic Phd. What good is all the econ classes if I can't get the job I want coming out? When looking through linkedin profiles of sais alums, there were very few who had jobs that interested me, and when I reached out to them, they all said that it was very tough to get those jobs coming out, and it was more a function of luck/timing than sais' career services and resources. And as I said in the other post, Sidney Jackson himself told me that very few sais students are getting finance jobs and they pretty much don't get any on-campus recruiting.

 

3. I seriously thought about the world bank/imf/fed route. Problem though is that many of those jobs are on a one-year contract basis. Furthermore, you can't really transition from there to macro hedge funds unless you're in a direct markets research/trading role. Even then, the transition could be very tough since macro hedge funds tend to hire ex-traders, bankers, and Phd economists. I'm sure it's been done before, but going to sais just for the hope of making that transition seems quite risky. Even in world bank/fed, however, a top MBA will go further than a sais/hks/wws/sipa grad. The NY Fed does recruit at sais and sipa, but they hire almost all of their actual market research analysts and traders from top b-schools.

 

4. My next degree will be my last one. Hence, it will be the most important one, and people will judge me by it. If I were exclusively interested in DC policy jobs, I would go to SAIS in a heartbeat since it gets so much respect there. But given my finance interests and interest in working in nyc, london, hong kong, or singapore, the SAIS name brand and network just won't get me that far. When I recently told my friends that i got into johns hokins sais, they all looked confused, and I had to explain to them what the degree was, that the school is actually in DC, not baltimore and what the program entails. They all made fun of me for even applying there and gave me a hard time about it. So yeah, I don't think I want to spend the next 30 years of my professional life having to justify why i went to sais and having a huge chip on my shoulders compared to my buddies who went to top b-schools. This is going to sound harsh, but outside of the DC government/policy circle jerk, no one gives a flying fuck about SAIS. I also looked through linkedin profiles of current SAIS students in the finance club and was extremely underwhelmed. The profiles of the students are just weak; very few have private sector experience in finance/consulting and many of them went to no-name colleges. With that type of network, it would be very difficult to achieve my career goals.

 

5. Happiness. We all want to be happy. There are many on this forum who would be very happy at sais. The open house could change my mind on this, but from what i've gathered i don't think i would be happy there. The classes are tough, and grades matter at policy programs, so i will spend 2 years busting my ass off while my job prospects coming out won't be that great. Why would I do that? As a rational human being, it doesn't make sense, and i see it as a negative expected value decision. Finally, I'm looking for a very specific experience that will satisfy my emotional and social desires; I don't think SAIS can provide that for me.

 

Feel free to send me a PM with any further questions. Best of luck.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Revolution

[JFactor]

 When I recently told my friends that i got into johns hokins sais, they all looked confused, and I had to explain to them what the degree was, that the school is actually in DC, not baltimore and what the program entails. They all made fun of me for even applying there and gave me a hard time about it.

 

I find these quotes so hilarious!

[riverguide]

When I recently told my friends that i got into johns hokins sais, they all looked confused, and I had to explain to them what the degree was, that the school is actually in DC, not baltimore and what the program entails. They all made fun of me for even applying there and gave me a hard time about it. So yeah, I don't think I want to spend the next 30 years of my professional life having to justify why i went to sais and having a huge chip on my shoulders compared to my buddies who went to top b-schools. This is going to sound harsh, but outside of the DC government/policy circle jerk, no one gives a flying fuck about SAIS. I also looked through linkedin profiles of current SAIS students in the finance club and was extremely underwhelmed. The profiles of the students are just weak; very few have private sector experience in finance/consulting and many of them went to no-name colleges. With that type of network, it would be very difficult to achieve my career goals.

 

Do you mind if I share your above-stated thoughts with the administration while I'm at SAIS? I'm sure they'll remember your phone call last week. Even though you haven't accepted your admission and financial aid offer, the repeated demonstrations on this website of your complete lack of any redeeming moral or intellectual character as well as your disturbed sense of entitlement will certainly trigger the morals clause in your offer. Don't bother to answer my question. I think we've all heard enough of your narcissistic commentary. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to visit. It came to me in a dream one night that you might not like your official reception...

Edited March 25, 2013 by riverguide

[ivydreams3]

Do you mind if I share your above-stated thoughts with the administration while I'm at SAIS? I'm sure they'll remember your phone call last week. Even though you haven't accepted your admission and financial aid offer, the repeated demonstrations on this website of your complete lack of any redeeming moral or intellectual character as well as your disturbed sense of entitlement will certainly trigger the morals clause in your offer. Don't bother to answer my question. I think we've all heard enough of your narcissistic commentary. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to visit. It came to me in a dream one night that you might not like your official reception...

 

Revolution is obviously overly obsessed with prestige. It's kind of sickening that Revolution put down people who went to "no name colleges" for undergrad. Really? Not everyone started off as brilliant or rich, most of us have to work hard to get anywhere at all. It is likely that most of the SAIS MA candidates don't have private sector experience because most IR degree seekers didn't start off studying IR with the goal of entering the private sector. Duh!? Why did you even apply to SAIS?

[Revolution]

Revolution is obviously overly obsessed with prestige. It's kind of sickening that Revolution put down people who went to "no name colleges" for undergrad. Really? Not everyone started off as brilliant or rich, most of us have to work hard to get anywhere at all. It is likely that most of the SAIS MA candidates don't have private sector experience because most IR degree seekers didn't start off studying IR with the goal of entering the private sector. Duh!? Why did you even apply to SAIS?

 

I'm from a working-class background and went to college on financial aid. Contrary to conventional wisdom on this board, most students at ivy league colleges are on financial aid and are not young versions of george w. bush.

[123seekay123]

1. I have not officially turned down SAIS yet. I'm most likely going to the open house in D.C. and will make my final decision afterwards. I still have a few questions that were unanswered and am waiting to hear back.

Maybe you shouldn't bother going to the open house. It seems like you have such preconceived notions about SAIS that there's no way it will make you happy. I'm sad that SAIS gave you money and you are so dismissive of it and people who WANT to go into public service. Free up your spot for someone in the waiting list. Maybe your fellowship can go to someone who truly wants to go to SAIS.  

[hlove]

Do you mind if I share your above-stated thoughts with the administration while I'm at SAIS? I'm sure they'll remember your phone call last week. Even though you haven't accepted your admission and financial aid offer, the repeated demonstrations on this website of your complete lack of any redeeming moral or intellectual character as well as your disturbed sense of entitlement will certainly trigger the morals clause in your offer. Don't bother to answer my question. I think we've all heard enough of your narcissistic commentary. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to visit. It came to me in a dream one night that you might not like your official reception...

 

Though you may not agree with all or even anything Revolution says, this America and we do guarantee free speech. So he doesn't value SAIS as much as everyone else, so what? I don't care about his business schools and don't hold MBA's to a very high regard. I doubt that effects his decision to go pursue an MBA and his opinion has no bearing on my decision to go to SAIS. JHU obviously saw something in him that they believed he could contribute to the school which is why they offered him money, regardless of whether you think he deserves that isn't up to you or me and again he shouldn't be punished for voicing his opinion just because you disagree with him. Revolution knows what he wants out of life and though its a life style I have no desire to be a part of and holds no value to me, at least he's honest about it. He may be disparaging about the program in regards to his goals but he's never once attacked (at least from what I recall) anyone personally or wrote anything bad about people on this forum, unlike what most (myself included) seem to be doing towards him.  

 

Personally I think he should still visit SAIS. He's admitted that it is a possible path to achieve his goals. At least by visiting he'll know one way or another if it's the right fit and won't have any regrets about declining or accepting. 

 

On a final note, Revolution. I have no problem with you voicing your opinion about the program but at this point your just saying the same negative things over and over. I appreciate the opposing view points even if your negatives aren't my negatives, but you aren't saying anything that you haven't said before. 

[AvariciousBanker]

Do you mind if I share your above-stated thoughts with the administration while I'm at SAIS? I'm sure they'll remember your phone call last week. Even though you haven't accepted your admission and financial aid offer, the repeated demonstrations on this website of your complete lack of any redeeming moral or intellectual character as well as your disturbed sense of entitlement will certainly trigger the morals clause in your offer. Don't bother to answer my question. I think we've all heard enough of your narcissistic commentary. If I were you, I wouldn't bother to visit. It came to me in a dream one night that you might not like your official reception...

Fortunately for Revolution, a misguided prestige obsession and interest in working in industry doesn't really trigger the morals clause and you know it.  I strongly disagree with just about everything that Revolution has said, but this is only going to backfire on you.  Oh, and it looks ugly. 

 

Word of advice from a malevolent Wall Street type:  If you're going to blackmail people, do it in private!  MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! 

(Oops! This advice has triggered the morals clause for A.Banker.)

Edited March 26, 2013 by AvariciousBanker

[rhodeislander]

I kinda hope he does visit, and when someone raises their hand and asks about how SAIS compares to "elite b-schools" we can all grin and nod to each other knowingly.

[riverguide]

I'm from a working-class background and went to college on financial aid. Contrary to conventional wisdom on this board, most students at ivy league colleges are on financial aid and are not young versions of george w. bush.

 

Its clear that you crave attention, chief. If you have a scintilla of thought about attending SAIS and accepting their gracious offer of funding, then start treating the school and its students with respect and consideration. You'll receive the same. You have the key to your own cell. Use it wisely, please...

Edited March 26, 2013 by riverguide

[riverguide]

Fortunately for Revolution, a misguided prestige obsession and interest in working in industry doesn't really trigger the morals clause and you know it.  I strongly disagree with just about everything that Revolution has said, but this is only going to backfire on you.  Oh, and it looks ugly. 

 

Word of advice from a malevolent Wall Street type:  If you're going to blackmail people, do it in private!  MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! 

(Oops! This advice has triggered the morals clause for A.Banker.)

 

I appreciate all of the engagement. I appreciate free speech. And I appreciate your selective amnesia, too, A.Banker.  Its clear that Revolution has made his decision. His commentary is NOT intended to be an opinion. Its not meant to be a Tourette's-like stream of conscientiousness critique. Its meant to be demeaning. Condescending. Attention getting. Hateful. Insulting. I appreciate the creative fictions being set forth to defend it. I don't believe in fairy tales. I believe in accountability. Especially for those who take it beyond a robust and bawdy debate to the point of being malicious and demeaning. Morals clause? Offers have been rescinded for lesser examples of demeaning and malicious behavior. His comments today went too far. I found them to be demeaning to many on this board. I have received PMs confirming this. Especially from several of the women on this post. Since he's decided to publicly air them -continuously- in such a demeaning manner, then he should be willing to defend them. Sunshine is a good thing. We all have our own standards of accountability, integrity and justice. Thanks for sharing your standards, A.Banker. BTW, they look pretty ugly...I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

 

And hlove, the fact that he's insulting all of us instead of any one of us is a distinction without a difference...but I do appreciate your other points.

 

And thanks folks for all of your PMs of support.

Edited March 26, 2013 by riverguide

[Kadisha]

On a final note, Revolution. I have no problem with you voicing your opinion about the program but at this point your just saying the same negative things over and over. I appreciate the opposing view points even if your negatives aren't my negatives, but you aren't saying anything that you haven't said before. 

 

The bolded sentence is why people are attacking him and dismissing his opinions. It's fine and dandy to be a moderate, but for us that have been on these forums for nearly a month his attitude has grown stale and annoying. This is about our freedom of speech to tell him to stfu as it is about his freedom to be annoying. 

 

Edit:

 

Forgot to say. I've made my decision to attend SIPA based on several reasons even though I believe that SAIS is an excellent school for those interest in public service. At the same time you don't see me demeaning everyone else that's going to SAIS or HKS, which is precisely what Revolution has been doing since day one. 

Edited March 26, 2013 by Kadisha