Professor-Student Relationships: How Close Is Too Close?

[DontHate]

by which you mean: I self censor based on the possible whims of public opinion (no, you don't think this is what you are saying; yes, it is, in actuality, what you are saying). which is fine if you're being interviewed by hysterical automatons on the today show. it is decidedly less fine in the realm of academia, or if you wish to keep the internet intellectually useful. matter of principle.

I totally agree with this, and with everything else thestage is saying. It was a threat. Phil was basically saying that if you vent anything on gradcafe that you wouldn't say directly to an admissions committee during an interview, you're screwed. That makes gradcafe anything but a safe space for open discussion.

Btdubs, no one said anything about fucking a married professor. I was initially talking about a set of confusing vibes being sent out between two individuals, not a sexual relationship. Even if the relationship in question were sexual, I don't think that would make anyone involved in it a "bad colleague" by default. I know tons of successful, admired profs whose relationships with their legitimate, conventionally-acknowledged-as-acceptable-in-polite-society second or third spouses began with an extramarital relationship. How someone decides to conduct his or her personal life is just that: personal. It has no bearing on the quality of their work. It's not grounds for elevating or derailing a career, unless we live in Victorian England and are so easily scandalized that normal human behavior makes us too embarrassed to see clearly. Sleeping your way to a promotion is one thing, but having a confusingly human situation crop up between a professor and a student who work together is quite another. Especially when no sex or otherwise verboten behavior is involved.

Eigen, you said yourself that this forum is meant to discuss the aspects of grad student life that we might not be able to talk about elsewhere, aspects that might be slightly uncomfortable. You called this a perfectly valid topic for discussion. I think Phil's desire to suppress all conversation that he finds icky is downright ridiculous. It's not like anyone is spewing hate speech on here. Are you really so judgmental and conventional that you would demonize a woman and blacklist her from academia just for "pseudonymously" admitting to a chaste but emotionally complex relationship with a married person?

[asleepawake]

YOU GUYS

YOU GUYS

[DontHate]

yes, that. Imagine if we judged Foucault's hireability on his personal life.

[rems]

OMG SHUT UP EVERYONE. THIS IS SO FUCKING OBNOXIOUS. I'M GETTING REALLY TIRED OF GETTING ONTO THIS FORUM TO READ THIS FUCKING MENTAL MASTURBATION THAT EVERYONE IS DOING EVERY DAY ON HERE NOW. I KNOW THAT WE'RE ALL VERY SELF CONSCIOUS AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, BUT DO YOURSELF AND EVERYONE ELSE A FUCKING FAVOR AND GO SEE A THERAPIST OR START SMOKING OR GO FOR A FUCKING RUN BECAUSE READING YOUR BULLSHIT RHETORICAL ARGUMENTS BACK AND FORTH ON HERE IS LIKE WATCHING TWO FOUR YEAR OLD ARGUE OVER WHO FARTED.

I THOUGHT WE WERE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE SCHOLARS-IN-TRAINING. FUCKING ACT LIKE IT.

FOR THOSE OF US WHO ACTUALLY LIKE THIS FORUM FOR THE COMMUNITY IT OFFERS, STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS ON HERE WHICH SEEM TO BE A'PLENTY RECENTLY. JESUS H CHRIST THIS IS OUT OF CONTROL.

[rems]

I'm sorry for having to yell, but this is getting ridiculous and I'm frankly really sick and tired of it. I was thinking yesterday about just not getting back on this forum for a while, but, honestly, I really like the community on here and I like wasting time on this site. But what I don't like, and I don't think I'm alone here, is when people just cut each other down for whatever reason. I don't want to guess at intention, but do yourself a favor and relax. Find something better to do than fight with people on the internet. Don't you have applications to be working on?

[rems]

And while I'm at it, and before someone comes back with "but progress is made through confrontation and intellectual debate," yes, you are right about that. But that's not what this forum is doing at the moment. I'm pretty sure I've had great "arguments" on here with people like two espressos but it never got personal and we weren't just being nasty to be nasty. So stop it. A good rhetorical debate is always fun and great, but just being a dick isn't. SO FUCKING STOP IT. There is a difference, and if you don't know the difference between a "good rhetorical debate" and "being a dick" then you probably shouldn't have a higher degree in the humanities.

[DontHate]

DO YOURSELF AND EVERYONE ELSE A FUCKING FAVOR AND GO SEE A THERAPIST OR START SMOKING OR GO FOR A FUCKING RUN

I'm pretty sure you're the one who needs to take some of your own advice and calm down."Troll" doesn't mean anyone who's saying anything you don't like. If you don't enjoy the direction a specific thread is taking, don't participate in it. Just because people are having different types of conversations doesn't make them trolls.

[rems]

I'm pretty sure you're the one who needs to take some of your own advice and calm down."Troll" doesn't mean anyone who's saying anything you don't like. If you don't enjoy the direction a specific thread is taking, don't participate in it. Just because people are having different types of conversations doesn't make them trolls.

"trolls" are the people who start the debate in the first place and then we tear each other apart.

[DontHate]

Rems, nobody on here right now is being a dick. Seriously, chill out.

[asleepawake]

LOL, Rems, I love you, but that definitely qualified as the same thing you're complaining about.

[rems]

LOL, Rems, I love you, but that definitely qualified as the same thing you're complaining about.

Haha I know! I'm sorry! I just got mad. I get to be a hypocrite too sometimes

It just seems that every time I get on here recently someone is being nasty to someone else and just saying shithead things to each other. I know I got kinda mad about that, and I'm not proud of it, but it's just getting annoying. I know I could not respond, but I'm just tired of reading it every day when I wake up. And I know I could just not check this site, but I used to really like this site and it's now just getting ridiculous. And I don't just mean this thread, I mean all the threads on here right now. From telling people off about applying to Harvard, to insinuating relationships to with professors, to telling people their approach to the GRE is stupid. Whatever. It's getting old.

[asleepawake]

I wonder if this happens every year around this time or if we're an especially friendly bunch... time to check the archives.

[DontHate]

I would imagine that people are acting especially ungenerous to each other right now, since they've been pit against one another in a deathmatch for the single spot in their dream school. Metaphorically speaking.

[rems]

Oh I would say that they probably get really nasty around this time because we're all freaking out about stuff, myself being no different. I'm particularly stressed out this morning, and I think seeing all of this just got under my skin more than it should have. For that, I'm sorry. But I also am always really nice on here, and sometimes I want to be mean too

[DontHate]

Now you know how the trolls feel!

[rems]

Now you know how the trolls feel!

SONOFABITCH! you're right! I hate learning about others!

[GuateAmfeminist]

FYI, this really terrible on-line behavior did not happen this time last year (I can think of one guy who was a bit annoying, but nothing like this). I am not sure why it is 'threatening' to let one know that the internet isn't and shouldn't be a place where one can act like a jackass with impunity. I think I'm going to take your guys' advice and not come here anymore. Adios.

[Two Espressos]

I'm pretty sure I've had great "arguments" on here with people like two espressos

[Two Espressos]

FYI, this really terrible on-line behavior did not happen this time last year (I can think of one guy who was a bit annoying, but nothing like this). I am not sure why it is 'threatening' to let one know that the internet isn't and shouldn't be a place where one can act like a jackass with impunity. I think I'm going to take your guys' advice and not come here anymore. Adios.

Yeah, last year (and possibly the year before, although I joined mid-January of that cycle and don't remember it very well) wasn't like this at all. I remember the guy who was "a bit annoying" ("What's it like to be illiterate and pursuing a Ph.D. in the humanities?" or something like that), but yeah, last year's online culture was really different.

But you shouldn't leave the grad cafe! Well, I mean you can leave if you want, but I want you to stay. I like hearing about others' experiences in Ph.D. programs and stuff.

[bfat]

Really, I think that the issue is that this forum has always been a place of support and encouragement, where people can discuss their insecurities about the application process without fear or judgment. But in the last few weeks, it feels like it's become a place of defensiveness, discouragement, and accusation of unworthiness--the complete opposite of what it used to be.

I probably should have left this topic alone, but it has been bothering me too.

[rosales]

by which you mean: I self censor based on the possible whims of public opinion (no, you don't think this is what you are saying; yes, it is, in actuality, what you are saying). which is fine if you're being interviewed by hysterical automatons on the today show. it is decidedly less fine in the realm of academia, or if you wish to keep the internet intellectually useful. matter of principle.

You're just wrong. Most of what Phil was criticizing, notwithstanding the potentially interesting discussion on the sexual tensions between grad students and professors, was nothing "intellectually useful." It was the general bitterness, rudeness, and hostile elitism that some people on this forum spoke (wrote) with. If you're going to systematically act that way, despite what you might think about between the differences of on and offline personalities, it says something about your character that, in my opinion, calls into question how good of a colleague, educator, and mentor you would be. Because this is a public space, and because it is so tied to academia, there is nothing wrong with members of admissions committees potentially browsing these forums, seeing a litany of posts by a single author that signal personal qualities they don't want in their department, and taking that judgement into account if said poster decided to reveal telling personal details, like what programs he or she is applying to.

Edited December 11, 2012 by descants1

[rems]

Really, I think that the issue is that this forum has always been a place of support and encouragement, where people can discuss their insecurities about the application process without fear or judgment. But in the last few weeks, it feels like it's become a place of defensiveness, discouragement, and accusation of unworthiness--the complete opposite of what it used to be.

I probably should have left this topic alone, but it has been bothering me too.

Thank you for saying this much better than I did.

[rising_star]

FWIW, I do think there's more hostility and generally rude posts being made now than there were a year or even two years ago. That said, that is not how I or any of the moderators would like this site to be. So please, try to be cordial to one another even as you disagree. Thanks in advance.

[Eigen]

I think it's worth adding that this is the first year since I joined in 2009 that I've seen people this bitter and hostile. It's quite disconcerting.

The forums don't have to be a warm fuzzy land of sunshine where everyone is supportive of everyone else "because we're all in it together", but they should at least be a place where disagreements can be handled professionally and tactfully without resorting to overt hostility and rudeness.

Similarly, I think there's a larger-than-usual amount of cross-thread bickering. The best practice is to leave disagreements from past threads *out* of current ones. It's not always possible, but it really doesn't help things to come into a new thread and hijack it because you have a beef with someone from another thread!

[DontHate]

Perhaps at this point it would be more productive to stop talking about how hostile the forum has become and just move on?