Harvard Kennedy School Admissions

[goodtogo]

Yes. Went on active duty at 17, did my first tour in OEF at 19. Worked full-time through school, going Tuesday and Thursday (8am-8pm) and taking excess courses to graduate in 2.5 years. After military service, I continued to work solely in the area of defense through research and development at MIT.

[pete-mc]

If you have GMAT 700 up ,solid essays and relevant WE it's doable. But MBA candidates seem to have more competitive work experiences with big name companies which allow them to elaborate their stories in essays much better and easier. While MPP/MPA line of work is very flat. You will be competing with engineers, finance folks, and other fields. But Law school is very straight forward. GPA x LSAT. It is true that MPP program is much easier to get in. Even Johnson school at Cornell is tougher to get accepted than HKS by comparing admitting rates. Plus, you can not dual with HBS unless you apply at the same application cycle. And no, they are not smarter than you, you just need to find your theme to properly answer WHY MBA WHY NOW and be sharp during an interview (if you get invited)

 

May I ask if you are at HKS's MPP program? How does HKS view HBS and vice versa? I've been following a blog where a current HKS student describes how HBS and HLS dislike HKS's grading, planning, and organization. Is there indeed such negativity between these schools? I've even read that it's been argued to spin off HKS from Harvard.

[pete-mc]

No it won't be any easier. HKS, although a top MPP/MPA program, is nowhere near the level of HBS and HLS. Usually it is the opposite way around where YLS and HLS Law students come into HKS without breaking a sweat. Law school admissions only looks at your GPA/LSAT, and the business school has no incentive to admit HKS students since it is the more prestigious program.

 

FYI I am doing the dual degree program with HKS and one of the law schools you mentioned. 

 

If you go to HKS's admissions blog, you will find a video where an MPP student - after being admitted and having enrolled at HKS - applied to Yale Law and was subsequently admitted.

 

YLS's is the toughest law school to get into, so apparently being at HKS helped him to get in. A professor told me that once you're in, it's easier to get into another program since you've already proven to be Harvard material.

[adollarninetynine]

If you go to HKS's admissions blog, you will find a video where an MPP student - after being admitted and having enrolled at HKS - applied to Yale Law and was subsequently admitted.

 

YLS's is the toughest law school to get into, so apparently being at HKS helped him to get in. A professor told me that once you're in, it's easier to get into another program since you've already proven to be Harvard material.

 

This is common knowledge at every single top law school that the only thing that matters is your LSAT/GPA. Yale and Stanford are the only schools that require top softs and you still have to have the LSAT/GPA to get in. By softs I am talking about Rhodes Scholars and other prestigious softs or military service. Getting into HKS is not one of them unfortunately. The dude in the blog got into Yale because he had the proper GPA/LSAT plus valuable work experience or something that set him apart. Trust me, him getting into HKS was not a major factor for law school admissions purposes. Why would it be easier to get into a school where the standards are way higher than HKS? HKS is hard to get in by MPP/MPA standards, but in comparison to HLS/YLS and HBS, it is vastly easier to get into. 

 

Also, the term "Harvard material" is a joke. A HLS student is not the same caliber as a Harvard Master's student in the school of education. I am sure HKS may help if you are applying to a lesser law school outside the top 14 or so, but it won't help you at the very top. If you don't believe me, just do some research on google on law school forum boards. 

[cunninlynguist]

If you have GMAT 700 up ,solid essays and relevant WE it's doable. But MBA candidates seem to have more competitive work experiences with big name companies which allow them to elaborate their stories in essays much better and easier. While MPP/MPA line of work is very flat. You will be competing with engineers, finance folks, and other fields. But Law school is very straight forward. GPA x LSAT. It is true that MPP program is much easier to get in. Even Johnson school at Cornell is tougher to get accepted than HKS by comparing admitting rates. Plus, you can not dual with HBS unless you apply at the same application cycle. And no, they are not smarter than you, you just need to find your theme to properly answer WHY MBA WHY NOW and be sharp during an interview (if you get invited)

 

As Herman Cain would say, "you're mixing apples and oranges." If the applicant pools for MBA and MPP/MPA programs were exactly the same, then you could make this judgment. Since that is not the case, there's no reliable method to determine how "tough" admissions to a program are for any given person. 

[Revolution]

As Herman Cain would say, "you're mixing apples and oranges." If the applicant pools for MBA and MPP/MPA programs were exactly the same, then you could make this judgment. Since that is not the case, there's no reliable method to determine how "tough" admissions to a program are for any given person. 

 

In general, any top 15 mba program is more selective than HKS (with the exception of mpa/id) because they get a higher caliber of applicants.  The people who did ivy undergrad, worked in top finance/consulting firms, are applying to mba programs. 

[Revolution]

This is common knowledge at every single top law school that the only thing that matters is your LSAT/GPA. Yale and Stanford are the only schools that require top softs and you still have to have the LSAT/GPA to get in. By softs I am talking about Rhodes Scholars and other prestigious softs or military service. Getting into HKS is not one of them unfortunately. The dude in the blog got into Yale because he had the proper GPA/LSAT plus valuable work experience or something that set him apart. Trust me, him getting into HKS was not a major factor for law school admissions purposes. Why would it be easier to get into a school where the standards are way higher than HKS? HKS is hard to get in by MPP/MPA standards, but in comparison to HLS/YLS and HBS, it is vastly easier to get into. 

 

Also, the term "Harvard material" is a joke. A HLS student is not the same caliber as a Harvard Master's student in the school of education. I am sure HKS may help if you are applying to a lesser law school outside the top 14 or so, but it won't help you at the very top. If you don't believe me, just do some research on google on law school forum boards. 

 

 

This is exactly right.  There is a HUGE difference in caliber of students between HKS and HBS; it's not even comparable.  Being at HKS will do almost nothing to help you get into YLS/HLS/HBS.  Do NOT go to HKS just to use it as a backdoor into a more prestigious program because most likely it won't work out. 

 

And yes, the HBS and HLS students, along with Harvard undergrads, look down on and make fun of HKS students.  It's just not that well respected among harvard students.

[adollarninetynine]

In general, any top 15 mba program is more selective than HKS (with the exception of mpa/id) because they get a higher caliber of applicants.  The people who did ivy undergrad, worked in top finance/consulting firms, are applying to mba programs. 

 

This is spot on. It is way harder to get into top MBA programs than HKS. The caliber isn't even close. This is not to say that HKS students aren't capable, but they do not have the work experience to compete with top MBA students and they do not have the academic credentials to compete with top law school students. 

 

This is exactly right.  There is a HUGE difference in caliber of students between HKS and HBS; it's not even comparable.  Being at HKS will do almost nothing to help you get into YLS/HLS/HBS.  Do NOT go to HKS just to use it as a backdoor into a more prestigious program because most likely it won't work out. 

 

And yes, the HBS and HLS students, along with Harvard undergrads, look down on and make fun of HKS students.  It's just not that well respected among harvard students.

 

Unfortunately, the last part of this quote is credited. The difference in quality between my law school classes and classmates and HKS students and classes was huge. But you cannot take away from HKS because it would be hard for any program to not be looked down upon when you are next to HBS, HLS, and the college. 

Edited January 30, 2013 by adollarninetynine

[Revolution]

This is spot on. It is way harder to get into top MBA programs than HKS. The caliber isn't even close. This is not to say that HKS students aren't capable, but they do not have the work experience to compete with top MBA students and they do not have the academic credentials to compete with top law school students. 

 

 

Unfortunately, the last part of this quote is credited. The difference in quality between my law school classes and classmates and HKS students and classes was huge. But you cannot take away from HKS because it would be hard for any program to not be looked down upon when you are next to HBS, HLS, and the college. 

 

 

The HBS students are like demi-gods on not just the harvard campus but boston in general.  My single friends there told me some sick stories about their social lives and how the girls in the city respond to them when they find out they're HBS students. But that's a different topic altogether.

[cunninlynguist]

Is this AutoAdmit?

 

The last few posts are filled with anecdotal evidence and an apparent obsession with prestige.

[pete-mc]

Does anyone from HKS admissions read this? I'd like to argue that some HBS or HLS students, without belittling their achievements, would not be admissable to HKS.

 

For instance the MC/MPA program has very specific requirements which most HBS or HLS students would not even meet. I agree with cunninlynguist that prestige may only get you so far, but what matters in real life is delivering on the advance credit that you were given due to your degree.

 

Do all HBS or HLS grads become CEOs or Supreme Court Justices? How many of current Fortune 500 CEOs have never gone to Harvard? Certainly the education and students are top-notch, but business/law are catering to different employers than policy schools. That's why we cannot draw conclusions from admissions to quality of school or degree.

 

Would be nice to get someone "official" to throw in their 2 cents.

 

Anyone got an update on the current admissions process? Or knows some valuable, current stats?

[Revolution]

Does anyone from HKS admissions read this? I'd like to argue that some HBS or HLS students, without belittling their achievements, would not be admissable to HKS.

 

For instance the MC/MPA program has very specific requirements which most HBS or HLS students would not even meet. I agree with cunninlynguist that prestige may only get you so far, but what matters in real life is delivering on the advance credit that you were given due to your degree.

 

Do all HBS or HLS grads become CEOs or Supreme Court Justices? How many of current Fortune 500 CEOs have never gone to Harvard? Certainly the education and students are top-notch, but business/law are catering to different employers than policy schools. That's why we cannot draw conclusions from admissions to quality of school or degree.

 

Would be nice to get someone "official" to throw in their 2 cents.

 

Anyone got an update on the current admissions process? Or knows some valuable, current stats?

 

Very few HLS/HBS students would get dinged at HKS (exception is the mpa-id due to its rigorous quantiative requirements).

 

The MC/MPA is for much older applicants, and the acceptance rate is pretty high.  I applied to HKS, along with top mba programs and would be happy to go to any of the schools i get into. Let me make this clear:  HKS is a GREAT school.  But there's no denying that HKS gets a lower caliber of applicants/students than top business or law schools.  I don't see how this is debatable. 

[ridofme]

I know little about MBA programs, but having looked into law school a bit, it's true that top programs have much higher average GPAs than top MPP/MPA/IR programs. But MPP/MPA/IR programs also require a lot of soft factors that law schools pay minimal attention to - language fluency, international experience, commitment to the public service, background in economics, etc. I also imagine that law schools (and probably business schools) get a lot more un- or under-qualified applicants, leading to lower acceptance rates, whereas MPP/MPA/IR programs tend to be more self-selective because these degrees are not seen as tickets to the gravy train.

 

I'm not categorically denying that the 'caliber' of students differs between these degrees, but I think that some posters are defining the terms a bit too narrowly.

Edited January 31, 2013 by ridofme

[pete-mc]

Does anyone know why Mason applicants for the MC/MPA program are exempt from the GMAT/GRE requirement and non-Mason applicants are not?

[pete-mc]

The HKS admissions director just posted on his blog that they are still reading through applications. Does anyone know why HKS needs so much more time than HBS to make decisions?

 

HBS has already sent out interview invites, while HKS is still going through files. HBS receives many more applications each year than HKS, yet HKS does not even conduct interviews and still needs until late March to notify candidates.

 

Is it because it's policy program that it's slower and less efficient than b-school?

[soaps]

I think the discussion of the relative prestige of an MBA or JD vs MPA/MPP measured in terms of competitiveness is rather depressing, not to mention off-topic. If you think in terms of this bizarre calculus, you discount very important and precious life experiences that a high LSAT score and corporate success don't measure; namely, the dedication to public service that makes many MPP/MPA candidates stand out. You don't need to live a world away from home sleeping on bed-bug infested cots eating terrible food with inadequate shelter in order to get into HLS or HBS; you would need to do that, however, if you wanted to help a displaced community in a remote part of the planet. Maybe that person doesn't score high on the LSAT, or doesn't have a 4.0 GPA, but he/she has a proven dedication to public service, and I think that's what Harvard in particular wants in its HKS applicants. Americans focus too much on numbers and profitable careerism and need to give more deference to interesting life experiences. Even getting into HKS doesn't matter much in comparison to what drives/motivates people to accomplish the things they're passionate about in the first place. But when a graduate program and those motivations are in-sync, I think it can produce excellent leaders, particularly for those whose public service career advancement depends on having graduate school credentials. At a certain point, the returns for an HLS/HBS/HKS degree are marginal in comparison to the life experiences of those who have them, so I think we should stop thinking these comparisons matter and refocus on HKS and its admissions process. 

Edited February 4, 2013 by soapwater

[pete-mc]

Soapwater, what programs did you apply to? Heard anything from admissions so far? May I ask what's your background/profile?

[soaps]

Soapwater, what programs did you apply to? Heard anything from admissions so far? May I ask what's your background/profile?

 

Sure! I applied to HKS, Oxford (MPhil in IR), and SIPA. I haven't heard anything yet, naturally. I went to a good public school with a 3.89 GPA, but didn't do well on the quant section of the GRE. My background consists of several full-time internships and a brief stint at a foreign policy think tank, followed by volunteer work with a refugee community in India. What about you?

[pete-mc]

Sure! I applied to HKS, Oxford (MPhil in IR), and SIPA. I haven't heard anything yet, naturally. I went to a good public school with a 3.89 GPA, but didn't do well on the quant section of the GRE. My background consists of several full-time internships and a brief stint at a foreign policy think tank, followed by volunteer work with a refugee community in India. What about you?

 

I assume that you applied to HKS's MPP and SIPA's MIA programs? How many years of full-time (post-grad) work experience do you have? Looking at your profile, I think you are a good candidate for these schools. May I ask what's your nationality, do you have some minority background? How "bad" was your GRE quant score? You have a high undergrad GPA, and if it was in a technical discipline you can balance your GRE.

 

I applied to the HKS's MC/MPA, have 10 years of work experience in local / municipal government of a major city.

[soaps]

I assume that you applied to HKS's MPP and SIPA's MIA programs? How many years of full-time (post-grad) work experience do you have? Looking at your profile, I think you are a good candidate for these schools. May I ask what's your nationality, do you have some minority background? How "bad" was your GRE quant score? You have a high undergrad GPA, and if it was in a technical discipline you can balance your GRE.

 

I applied to the HKS's MC/MPA, have 10 years of work experience in local / municipal government of a major city.

 

Yeah, I applied for the MPP and MIA. It's hard to measure my full-time experience because I took time out of school to complete some full-time internships (State Dept., Justice Dept., U.S. Senate, and a top foreign policy think tank) and then worked for a think tank briefly before volunteering in India. In total those amount to over 2 years of experience, but I have less than a year of post-grad, paid experience. I'm American and half Spanish, so I'm never sure what to put on those forms. My GRE was 168V/148Q, so pretty bad. 

You have a lot of experience! I might have to get some more of that, haha.

[destine]

Does anybody have any idea about what is going on in the admissions office recently? I am going nuts because of this waiting...

[vincehoward]

I don't think decision are released until March.

[plenum123]

This is exactly right.  There is a HUGE difference in caliber of students between HKS and HBS; it's not even comparable.  Being at HKS will do almost nothing to help you get into YLS/HLS/HBS.  Do NOT go to HKS just to use it as a backdoor into a more prestigious program because most likely it won't work out. 

 

And yes, the HBS and HLS students, along with Harvard undergrads, look down on and make fun of HKS students.  It's just not that well respected among harvard students.

Wow, I am stunning. If your statement is true, Harvard University is full of narrow minded D-bag  people. HKS is considered one of the top programs in the field. If

 

Harvard MBA, HLS students look down at them, other public policy schools would even be worse. In my view, this degradation is rare in reality. For MBA, you compete

 

with students from other fields that's why it's tougher and HBS favors former Harvard students who work in Top bussiness firms than those who got 4.00 GPA from

 

public school and  750 GMAT. MPP is more limited to those who involve in public affairs and that's the reason it's less competitive. To prevent students to use HKS as a

 

backdoor to HBS, they dont allow HKS student to apply after they get admitted. It has to be done simultaneously.

 

If you can get into Harvard HKS, do good on LSAT or whatever test, then you have the "edge" to apply to any Law school and gain advantage I am super sure.

 

And the reason that you would pick other B-school over HKS is that they get paid more statistically and you can land a nice financial job anywhere . Am I right? And

 

Aint these B-school grads who jeopodized our economy and begging for tax money to bail them out? I dont think that they 're that sophisicated after all. All in all

 

Harvard is a great school.

[soaps]

Wow, I am stunning. If your statement is true, Harvard University is full of narrow minded D-bag  people. 

 

I think the entire comparison is silly. He claims the caliber of HLS/HBS students is ridiculously higher, but the caliber of a PhD student in theoretical physics would also be ridiculously higher compared to HLS/HBS students. You can't reach a meaningful comparison between these schools because they seek to measure and create different things. The idea that even a Harvard undergrad would "make fun" of an HKS student, especially mid-career students who have vastly more impressive profiles and life experiences, is frankly laughable. I'm positive HLS/HBS are harder in terms of coursework, but people in those programs are required to have a more competitive mindset that prepares them for a linear, conventional career path. I think people often make the comparison with HKS because HLS/HBS students can get the same kind of jobs as a graduate of HKS, but not vice versa. But that's precisely the point: HKS prepares fewer people for a more narrow career path in a field that still has a large pool of jobs, and so it's naturally less competitive. HBS/HLS are more easily marketed for practically anything. And yet, the dividends paid from HKS/HBS/HLS in a public service context are roughly the same, so why not take the path of least resistance? One of the political officers during my State Dept. internship switched careers but was a graduate of HLS, and his boss (the Deputy Chief of Mission) graduated from a state school and god a mid-career masters. These labels--and the ridiculous comparisons being made here--matter less the further you get into your career. And for some public service career paths, they are ridiculous to begin with.

 

[alf10087]

I'd just show this link to anyone who tries to disregard HKS: 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_School_of_Government#HKS_degree_program_alumni