Harvard Kennedy School Admissions

[adollarninetynine]

As a HKS student, it is unfortunate but HKS is indeed at the bottom. I think it comes from the fact that HKS is the easiest by far to get into compared to HBS, HLS, and undergrad. The students with the top grades and academics go to HLS, the students with the top personalities and career achievements go to HBS. The students with mediocre grades and work experience go to HKS (relatively). As a dual degree student, I met a lot of smart HKS students with fine achievements but there were also a ton of students who were immature and unimpressive intelligence wise. This happened far less at my other program. You would be kidding yourself if you chose HKS over HBS if you got into both and wanted to pursue a career in public service. Applicants need to understand that a top MBA program like HBS will get you to where you want to go in public service faster and easier over HKS.

 

Lastly, the assertion that people used HKS as a backdoor to HLS or HBS is absurd. I don't know where that came from because those programs would not be impressed nor would care that you went to HKS. There is a reason why HKS admits 100% of students from HBS and HLS while the other two do not give any bump to HKS students.

[pete-mc]

Listening to Revolution and Adollarninetynine leaves a bit of a bitter taste about HKS. It's too bad that there seems to be some kind of competition among Harvard students themselves.

 

I always thought once in Harvard, you're part of the brotherhood. At least to the outside world, this hierarchy is less known. I would think that you got admissions mistakes in any of the schools, but probably more so at HKS.

 

Does this devalue the degree to the "qualified" ones, will it be held against them on the job market that they went to HKS and not HBS, for instance (inside the US, abroad I assume it matters less)?

[soaps]

They don't just do this with HKS. They'll do it with every lower ranked business or law school. The admissions rate for an MPP at HKS went below 20% three years ago... and I imagine, since the number of applicants keeps increasing, that number has just gone lower since then. That makes it comparable to lower T14 law schools if I'm not mistaken.

I really thought we had gone past this discussion a week ago. No need to keep reviving it. We get it: HBS and HLS look down on HKS. They probably look down on everyone. Can we move on now?

 

Edited March 2, 2013 by soapwater

[pete-mc]

It seems that the key rationale behind this argumentation is the school's admissions rate.

[soaps]

It seems that the key rationale behind this argumentation is the school's admissions rate.

 

And if it is, that'd be strange, because both HBS and HLS have many more applicants than HKS. I think a lot of people look at the overall acceptance rate of HKS, which includes mid-career MPAs and whatnot. Their acceptance rates are much higher than the MPP, which makes it even stupider to compare these schools. Some degrees like the MPA are way more self-selective with much smaller applicant pools.

 

[pete-mc]

Soapwater, makes sense. Now I'm feeling bad though since I am a MC/MPA applicant. Hope people still respect me if I get in.

[soaps]

Soapwater, makes sense. Now I'm feeling bad though since I am a MC/MPA applicant. Hope people still respect me if I get in.

 

No need to feel bad at all! This is why acceptance rates are a silly metric to begin with. The experience threshold for an MC/MPA is so much higher it's not worth the comparison. If HBS or HLS similarly had a "mid-career" tier or degree, I'm sure the acceptance rates would be much higher as well. Fewer applicants, more self-selective.

Edited March 2, 2013 by soapwater

[Kadisha]

As a HKS student, it is unfortunate but HKS is indeed at the bottom. I think it comes from the fact that HKS is the easiest by far to get into compared to HBS, HLS, and undergrad. The students with the top grades and academics go to HLS, the students with the top personalities and career achievements go to HBS. The students with mediocre grades and work experience go to HKS (relatively). As a dual degree student, I met a lot of smart HKS students with fine achievements but there were also a ton of students who were immature and unimpressive intelligence wise. This happened far less at my other program. You would be kidding yourself if you chose HKS over HBS if you got into both and wanted to pursue a career in public service. Applicants need to understand that a top MBA program like HBS will get you to where you want to go in public service faster and easier over HKS.

 

You realize you're comparing apples and oranges here. That's what's really absurd about this entire conversation. HKS is not my dream school and neither is it my top choice, but the comparison here is absolutely ridiculous. You want to compare programs then compare them with SAIS or SIPA or SIS etc. If we're going to get into the nitty gritty what is "intelligence" at the end of the day? Let's not forget that the most successful people were college drop outs. 

 

If I go to HKS I'm sure I can get into the public or private sector dependent on my field. Sure you can get into government with an HBS degree, but I doubt you're going to hired for certain positions because you have a business degree from Harvard versus a Public Policy and vice versa.  If I get a master's degree in Finance and some one else gets a degree in Public Policy and we both apply for a government liaison position or a public relations position who do you think is going to get the job? Again this comparison is absurd. It's spoiled rich kids syndrome. 

 

 

Plenty of people applied to both mba programs and hks, including myself.  There are people who are NOT interested in public sector who apply to these programs.

 

I agree that it's bad, but this is the general culture at harvard. Not saying that I like it or condone it but just reporting what my friends have told me and what I have witnessed when I visited my buddies at HBS.

 

It's not a shot at people that apply to both programs. It's about people that think they're any less because they applied to HKS versus HBS. I'm not interested in the public sector but I'm interested in working WITH the public sector which is why I applied to the MPP program. 

 

Honestly I could care less about what the general culture at Harvard is. I care what my future employer is going to think about my time there. If you're going to grad school for the social atmosphere then you must not have had a very good undergrad experience in college. 

[adollarninetynine]

You realize you're comparing apples and oranges here. That's what's really absurd about this entire conversation. HKS is not my dream school and neither is it my top choice, but the comparison here is absolutely ridiculous. You want to compare programs then compare them with SAIS or SIPA or SIS etc. If we're going to get into the nitty gritty what is "intelligence" at the end of the day? Let's not forget that the most successful people were college drop outs. 

 

If I go to HKS I'm sure I can get into the public or private sector dependent on my field. Sure you can get into government with an HBS degree, but I doubt you're going to hired for certain positions because you have a business degree from Harvard versus a Public Policy and vice versa.  If I get a master's degree in Finance and some one else gets a degree in Public Policy and we both apply for a government liaison position or a public relations position who do you think is going to get the job? Again this comparison is absurd. It's spoiled rich kids syndrome. 

 

 

 

It's not a shot at people that apply to both programs. It's about people that think they're any less because they applied to HKS versus HBS. I'm not interested in the public sector but I'm interested in working WITH the public sector which is why I applied to the MPP program. 

 

Honestly I could care less about what the general culture at Harvard is. I care what my future employer is going to think about my time there. If you're going to grad school for the social atmosphere then you must not have had a very good undergrad experience in college. 

 

Why are you so upset? What he said are facts plain and simple. No need to blow a gasket over this. You just proved my point. Let's not forget about drop outs? You are seriously using that as your evidence for your assertion? What is next, a link to Wikipedia showing HKS alumni who are famous? Seeing how you are going to be going to a public policy school try to remember correlation, causation, and sample size. Rich kids? What rich kids? What kind of personal attack is that? I am not rich at all. These are the kinds of irrational responses that I am talking about that show immaturity. Your HKS degree is not going to do anything if you can't even spout out words that make any kind of sense.

 

Actually, a big part of HKS is the social aspect. Networking is the main way to get the best jobs, and the social aspect is the reason why the HKS brand is strong. If you are going to a professional school to "learn in the classroom", you are sadly idealistic. Also it is "I could not care less". 

[soaps]

These are the kinds of irrational responses that I am talking about that show immaturity. Your HKS degree is not going to do anything if you can't even spout out words that make any kind of sense.

 

This whole discussion is immature.

[Revolution]

I'm really worried about what I should do if I get dinged at all the mba programs but get into HKS MPA. I'm worried that i won't get the job i want coming out and that people won't take me seriously.

 

 

Listening to Revolution and Adollarninetynine leaves a bit of a bitter taste about HKS. It's too bad that there seems to be some kind of competition among Harvard students themselves.

 

I always thought once in Harvard, you're part of the brotherhood. At least to the outside world, this hierarchy is less known. I would think that you got admissions mistakes in any of the schools, but probably more so at HKS.

 

Does this devalue the degree to the "qualified" ones, will it be held against them on the job market that they went to HKS and not HBS, for instance (inside the US, abroad I assume it matters less)?

[cunninlynguist]

I'm really worried about what I should do if I get dinged at all the mba programs but get into HKS MPA. I'm worried that i won't get the job i want coming out and that people won't take me seriously.

 

I've got a crazy idea: don't go. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. And if you don't go, then those "alpha males" at HBS won't have to bear the sight of your Kennedy School self walking around. Thankfully you'll be them sparing such a disservice.

 

If your career goal is MBB-level consulting or a job dripping in prestige, you should pursue the best MBA you can. If so, the entire "Government Affairs" subforum here isn't really appropriate for you.

Edited March 2, 2013 by cunninlynguist

[soaps]

I'm really worried about what I should do if I get dinged at all the mba programs but get into HKS MPA. I'm worried that i won't get the job i want coming out and that people won't take me seriously.

 

It's probably best not to trust anecdotal evidence from a stranger over the internet. There's no way to establish this guy is even at HKS, much less HBS. Let's move along. No one has even provided recent admissions data from HKS and the admissions data you find is woefully out-of-date. 

 

If you want to go into the private sector or if you're insecure about an MPA, get an MBA. Leave HKS for people genuinely interested in public service. To people who can't help but mention the superiority of HBS/HLS in this thread, please get your kicks elsewhere. 

Edited March 2, 2013 by soapwater

[Ethical Realist]

Soapwater, makes sense. Now I'm feeling bad though since I am a MC/MPA applicant. Hope people still respect me if I get in.

 

Public Policy Expert, I hope you were being sarcastic. I'm a second-year MPP at HKS and I can't agree more with the idea that comparing HKS to HLS and HBS is ridiculous. HKS is great at what it does, preparing its students to serve at the highest levels of government and public service. The resources at the school are unbelievable and the opportunities following graduation are amazing. Dozens of alums have gone on to become White House Fellows, work at MBB (and not just dual degrees), became Ambassadors and even heads of state. The median (not mean, median) starting salary for MPPs in the private sector is $122,000. If that doesnt signal the value that the private sector places on K-School grads I dont know what would.

 

Furthermore, the professors are top notch, very accessible, and most are willing to use their contacts to help students get jobs and internships. One professor helped a friend get an internship at the White House last summer.  This also goes for professors across campus. In addition to my HKS professors, I've able to meet with professors in HLS, HBS, the college and they were consistently interested in providing guidance and willing to offer assistance. In the less than two years at the school, I've met and had substantive conversations with four current or former governors, two senators, the head of the World Bank (K-school grad), and many many other dignitaries. These interactions along with those I've had in class have been invaluable to my training.  

 

Many students from HLS, HBS, HMS, the college, HGSE, HDS, etc. cross-register to take HKS classes and vice versa.  As is the case anywhere, students fall along continuum of impressiveness and there is substantial amount of overlap in student quality between schools. In addition, many students have very impressive backgrounds and have been highly successful before coming to HKS. The main difference in applicants is that those who apply to HKS are primarily interested in public service. You should be proud of your accomplishment and know that this will be one of the best experiences of your life. 

 

One final point: I was self-conscious like you were when I first got here but I quickly learned that my concerns were unwarranted.  I will confirm that there is an informal "hierarchy" b/w schools based on the "competitiveness" of entry but you should know that this is just the nature of elitism and exclusion. Harvard attracts a subset of students who define themselves based on the exclusivity of the group they are apart of. Even within HLS or HBS the exclusion doesn't stop it just shifts to different criteria like: are you coming from i-banking or class rank or where you went undergrad. There is a word for people like this: snobs.

 

News Flash: There are snobs at Harvard.  

 

But it's okay! The vast majority of people arent like that. Once you get here you will quickly realize that the snobs are irrelevant to your experience at HKS and to your future opportunities. 

[soaps]

Thanks for that, Ethical Realist! Makes me want to go to HKS even more. 

[Kadisha]

Why are you so upset? What he said are facts plain and simple. No need to blow a gasket over this. You just proved my point. Let's not forget about drop outs? You are seriously using that as your evidence for your assertion? What is next, a link to Wikipedia showing HKS alumni who are famous? Seeing how you are going to be going to a public policy school try to remember correlation, causation, and sample size. Rich kids? What rich kids? What kind of personal attack is that? I am not rich at all. These are the kinds of irrational responses that I am talking about that show immaturity. Your HKS degree is not going to do anything if you can't even spout out words that make any kind of sense.

 

Actually, a big part of HKS is the social aspect. Networking is the main way to get the best jobs, and the social aspect is the reason why the HKS brand is strong. If you are going to a professional school to "learn in the classroom", you are sadly idealistic. Also it is "I could not care less". 

 

Bro you definitely misunderstood my tone. I was frustrated with the logic of those students. Nothing to do with you, and neither did the "spoiled rich kids" statement either. People feeling inferior to others because of some sort of social order within the school is ridiculous. That's it plain and simple. If I get admitted and plan to attend I am certainly not going to feel inferior to other students in a different school. I graduated from college at the age of 20. Joined the Army. Earned my American citizenship. I've been to the deserts of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan never mind my brief stops in other countries, and I wasn't one of those guys that sit on a big base chowing down on Burger King for a year either. All before the age of 25. 

 

Again my problem isn't with you personally. I apologize for making that impression. It's with people not valuing what they have that same people can only dream of. I'd have the same opinion if such a thing existed in any other program. Hell I have the same opinion about people that are living a comfortable life and find a reason to be unhappy.

 

I'm just going to leave it at that, because I'd rather this situation diffuse, especially since apparently we've resorted to typos to show some sort of intellectual superiority. 

[Kadisha]

Public Policy Expert, I hope you were being sarcastic. I'm a second-year MPP at HKS and I can't agree more with the idea that comparing HKS to HLS and HBS is ridiculous. HKS is great at what it does, preparing its students to serve at the highest levels of government and public service. The resources at the school are unbelievable and the opportunities following graduation are amazing. Dozens of alums have gone on to become White House Fellows, work at MBB (and not just dual degrees), became Ambassadors and even heads of state. The median (not mean, median) starting salary for MPPs in the private sector is $122,000. If that doesnt signal the value that the private sector places on K-School grads I dont know what would.

 

Furthermore, the professors are top notch, very accessible, and most are willing to use their contacts to help students get jobs and internships. One professor helped a friend get an internship at the White House last summer.  This also goes for professors across campus. In addition to my HKS professors, I've able to meet with professors in HLS, HBS, the college and they were consistently interested in providing guidance and willing to offer assistance. In the less than two years at the school, I've met and had substantive conversations with four current or former governors, two senators, the head of the World Bank (K-school grad), and many many other dignitaries. These interactions along with those I've had in class have been invaluable to my training.  

 

Many students from HLS, HBS, HMS, the college, HGSE, HDS, etc. cross-register to take HKS classes and vice versa.  As is the case anywhere, students fall along continuum of impressiveness and there is substantial amount of overlap in student quality between schools. In addition, many students have very impressive backgrounds and have been highly successful before coming to HKS. The main difference in applicants is that those who apply to HKS are primarily interested in public service. You should be proud of your accomplishment and know that this will be one of the best experiences of your life. 

 

One final point: I was self-conscious like you were when I first got here but I quickly learned that my concerns were unwarranted.  I will confirm that there is an informal "hierarchy" b/w schools based on the "competitiveness" of entry but you should know that this is just the nature of elitism and exclusion. Harvard attracts a subset of students who define themselves based on the exclusivity of the group they are apart of. Even within HLS or HBS the exclusion doesn't stop it just shifts to different criteria like: are you coming from i-banking or class rank or where you went undergrad. There is a word for people like this: snobs.

 

News Flash: There are snobs at Harvard.  

 

But it's okay! The vast majority of people arent like that. Once you get here you will quickly realize that the snobs are irrelevant to your experience at HKS and to your future opportunities. 

 

Quality post.

[pete-mc]

Great post from Ethical Realist, finally some feedback from an actual student at the school itself. Will PM you.

[Revolution]

Kadisha, you have an impressive profile. I think you should apply to top business schools such as harvard, stanford, and wharton. They would love your military background!

 

 

Bro you definitely misunderstood my tone. I was frustrated with the logic of those students. Nothing to do with you, and neither did the "spoiled rich kids" statement either. People feeling inferior to others because of some sort of social order within the school is ridiculous. That's it plain and simple. If I get admitted and plan to attend I am certainly not going to feel inferior to other students in a different school. I graduated from college at the age of 20. Joined the Army. Earned my American citizenship. I've been to the deserts of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan never mind my brief stops in other countries, and I wasn't one of those guys that sit on a big base chowing down on Burger King for a year either. All before the age of 25. 

 

Again my problem isn't with you personally. I apologize for making that impression. It's with people not valuing what they have that same people can only dream of. I'd have the same opinion if such a thing existed in any other program. Hell I have the same opinion about people that are living a comfortable life and find a reason to be unhappy.

 

I'm just going to leave it at that, because I'd rather this situation diffuse, especially since apparently we've resorted to typos to show some sort of intellectual superiority. 

[pete-mc]

Was anyone of the HKS applicants interviewed? Can you tell us about your experience?

[Kadisha]

Kadisha, you have an impressive profile. I think you should apply to top business schools such as harvard, stanford, and wharton. They would love your military background!

 

Thanks man, but I'm not entirely interested in business per se. Don't get me wrong I would definitely rather work in the private sector, but I'm more of a PR/Government type of person. Back as an undergrad I didn't find business very engaging like I did with economics or political science, which is funny because it's usually the opposite. 

[Revolution]

What's your ideal private sector job coming out of grad school? I actually have no interest in like 95% of jobs that MBAs get, but since i want to do macro investment research/strategy, a joint mba/policy degree would have been quite powerful. Unfortunately, it looks like i won't get into the top mba programs.

 

 

Thanks man, but I'm not entirely interested in business per se. Don't get me wrong I would definitely rather work in the private sector, but I'm more of a PR/Government type of person. Back as an undergrad I didn't find business very engaging like I did with economics or political science, which is funny because it's usually the opposite. 

[Kadisha]

What's your ideal private sector job coming out of grad school? I actually have no interest in like 95% of jobs that MBAs get, but since i want to do macro investment research/strategy, a joint mba/policy degree would have been quite powerful. Unfortunately, it looks like i won't get into the top mba programs.

 

Honestly I'm not entirely sure because my experience with the private sector is very limited. I'm hoping that my time at wherever I decide to attend will help me figure that out. I would actually love a liason job of sorts or a PR position. On the long term though I know I want to get into politics. I know I want to help bring the change that everyone keeps talking about but never does anything for. We'll see how things turn out. 

[Tom-MPP]

Admitted !! Just got my admissions letter by email

[adollarninetynine]

lol no you didn't kid