to accept or not to accept?

[Jvcxk]

I recently got my first acceptance to UW- Milwaukee's experimental psych program (major: neuroscience).

 

I'm excited and all, and I really enjoy the work my POI is doing but...

Milwaukee was more or less a "safety" school for me. I don't care all the much about the prestige of a school but it does concern me as far as education quality, future job prospects etc.

 

Basically, if this ends up being my only acceptance.. would it be worth it to hold out and reapply next year?

I have the "basic ingredients" to get into a "better" school (gpa: 3.91, gre: 167 V/161 Q; research experience; strong LORs) and I think I've realized the weak areas of my application that I could markedly improve for next cycle. 

 

Is it worth it though? If I have an opportunity in hand? Basically, do you think the quality of UW-Milwaukee's program will put me at a disadvantage (career wise) vs. a (i hate to use this term) "better ranked" program?

[PsychGirl1]

In my opinion: all that matters is your POI and the type of work you will be doing while you're there, and the experiences and support you will get. "School names" doesn't matter that much in the world of psychology- but professor names do. Publications do. Clinical experiences (if you're clinical) do. Research experience does.

[DarwinAG]

In my opinion: all that matters is your POI and the type of work you will be doing while you're there, and the experiences and support you will get. "School names" doesn't matter that much in the world of psychology- but professor names do. Publications do. Clinical experiences (if you're clinical) do. Research experience does.

I worked with someone who apprised me of little tid bits of information that are generally taboo or unspoken rules/facts/realities in academia. Some I am incredulous about. Some easier to believe. Here's what he had to say about prestige.

I would disagree with "all that matters is your POI and the type of work you will be doing while you're there, and the experiences and support you will get". I would argue that those things are the most important. However, the reality of it is that school prestige matters. If there are two job candidates and they are all equal on all qualifications, but one is from a top 10 school and the other is from bottom 10, the tie breaker goes to the top 10 guy. Now i dont think its necessarily fair but its the reality of it. Of coirse this is all speculation and based on anecdotal evidence, but this study would be easy to do. Its a basic perception study. Im sure someone has done this already, but for now, there is strong anecdotal evidence for this prestige bias (one being that the first poster factors it in his/her decision process).

Now for me personally, prestige does not matter. Adviser fit and graduate student culture matters more. In fact, the idea of going against a candidate from a "highly prestigious school" appeals to me. I kind of have an underdog thing going which is a fun position to be in. I find that it just makes me work harder.

Edited February 16, 2013 by DarwinAG

[Jvcxk]

Thanks for your input!

My POI publishes fairly regularly, not sure how well known he is (but if google search results are any indication... not super well known).

I'm worried because neuroscience is exploding as a field and there will be a lot of competition by the time I graduate. 

 

Does anyone know about the UW-Milwaukee program?

I'm from NYC so I don't really know the reputation of non-top schools outside my geographic region and all the rankings websites are not very helpful for what I'm trying to find out. (i'll be visiting the campus next month though).

Anyone go here for undergrad? Or know someone? Live in WI? hahah im desperate. 

[DarwinAG]

Thanks for your input!

My POI publishes fairly regularly, not sure how well known he is (but if google search results are any indication... not super well known).

I'm worried because neuroscience is exploding as a field and there will be a lot of competition by the time I graduate. 

 

Does anyone know about the UW-Milwaukee program?

I'm from NYC so I don't really know the reputation of non-top schools outside my geographic region and all the rankings websites are not very helpful for what I'm trying to find out. (i'll be visiting the campus next month though).

Anyone go here for undergrad? Or know someone? Live in WI? hahah im desperate. 

I think you're focusing on the wrong things. If your POI publishes regularly, that's a huge plus. So what if he isisn't super well known (and google search results is a terrible indicator of that imo), but is he doing good science based on your readings? I think you need to shift your focus to the quality of science he's doing. I highly reccommend shifting your focus, at the very least, away from prestige. It may really negatively color the perception of your visit and you'll miss an oppurtunity to work with incredibly astute, bright, and amazing scientists. I really only applied to places I could end up in regardless of prestige. The people I applied with are all doing amazing work that I'd like to be a part of.

If prestige is something really important to you then the best people to ask are your advisers. They know the people in your field.

[lewin]

"all that matters is your POI and the type of work you will be doing while you're there, and the experiences and support you will get". I would argue that those things are the most important. However, the reality of it is that school prestige matters.

 

...and it often matters because prestige and "experiences/support/productive colleagues" are not unrelated to one another. Places are usually prestigious for a reason--because they have money, labs, productivity, etc. and so they attract good people.

[Pretty_Penny]

Thanks for your input!

My POI publishes fairly regularly, not sure how well known he is (but if google search results are any indication... not super well known).

I'm worried because neuroscience is exploding as a field and there will be a lot of competition by the time I graduate. 

 

Does anyone know about the UW-Milwaukee program?

I'm from NYC so I don't really know the reputation of non-top schools outside my geographic region and all the rankings websites are not very helpful for what I'm trying to find out. (i'll be visiting the campus next month though).

Anyone go here for undergrad? Or know someone? Live in WI? hahah im desperate. 

 

I can't tell you about the specific program, but I've spent my entire life in Wisconsin, including four years at UW-Madison, and have had plenty of friends go to UW-Milwaukee. Some loved it and are going to be graduating this spring, some hated it and transferred, including my best friend since kindergarten. From what I've heard, the campus is nice, but the city of Milwaukee isn't for everyone (being from NYC you probably wouldn't have a problem with that). As for prestige, well, every school in the state is considered "inferior" to UW-Madison, which is the UW system's flagship school. But as DarwinAG said, that is just a matter of perception. I can't speak to the quality of the work that your POI is doing at UW-Milwaukee.

[Jvcxk]

I think you're focusing on the wrong things. If your POI publishes regularly, that's a huge plus. So what if he isisn't super well known (and google search results is a terrible indicator of that imo), but is he doing good science based on your readings? I think you need to shift your focus to the quality of science he's doing. I highly reccommend shifting your focus, at the very least, away from prestige. It may really negatively color the perception of your visit and you'll miss an oppurtunity to work with incredibly astute, bright, and amazing scientists. I really only applied to places I could end up in regardless of prestige. The people I applied with are all doing amazing work that I'd like to be a part of.

If prestige is something really important to you then the best people to ask are your advisers. They know the people in your field.

 

I didn't mean to come off as though prestige is a priority to me. I'm really just seeking a quality education, but I'm definitely mindful that jobs are few and far between, and I just want to ensure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot.

 

I see myself very happy in the program and at the school. I just don't want to ignorant in my bliss, of the fact that there is certain power in a name. I don't care if it doesn't have the "wow" factor, I don't care if people have never heard of it, I just care that it isn't popularly perceived as a low quality (not low prestige) program.

 

I suppose this is definitely why I need to talk to current students when I visit. 

[PsychGirl1]

Granted, prestige and those things often go hand-in-hand, but here is where I was coming from-

 

If you are in a prestigious program, and your PI basically assigns you to their grants into the specific roles they need you for, they delegate what pieces of their projects you can "own", and they oversee your every move... sure, you will graduate from a prestigious program. But compare that to a less prestigious program, where your PI is supportive, helps you became great at study design/methodology and data analysis, lets you have some freedom to design your own studies and drive different types of experiences as well as gives you experiences on their grants/projects, lets you do some tangential work in related labs to get different kinds of experience, guides you through writing manuscripts and posters but allow you to master it on your own... who graduates in a better place? Sure, maybe the first one will open a few more doors for you, but the second one will set you up for a better career long-term, and turn you into a better researcher. I'd also personally be much happier in choice #2 than in choice #1.

 

There's also the fact that the prestige of your POI and the prestige of your program might not be identical. For example, it could be a mediocre-to-good program with a POI who is quite well-known... and occasionally/rarely vice versa. 

[Jvcxk]

Granted, prestige and those things often go hand-in-hand, but here is where I was coming from-

 

If you are in a prestigious program, and your PI basically assigns you to their grants into the specific roles they need you for, they delegate what pieces of their projects you can "own", and they oversee your every move... sure, you will graduate from a prestigious program. But compare that to a less prestigious program, where your PI is supportive, helps you became great at study design/methodology and data analysis, lets you have some freedom to design your own studies and drive different types of experiences as well as gives you experiences on their grants/projects, lets you do some tangential work in related labs to get different kinds of experience, guides you through writing manuscripts and posters but allow you to master it on your own... who graduates in a better place? Sure, maybe the first one will open a few more doors for you, but the second one will set you up for a better career long-term, and turn you into a better researcher. I'd also personally be much happier in choice #2 than in choice #1.

 

I've totally had similar thoughts.

I definitely think its possible that certain less prestigious programs might have a more...nurturing (vs more competitive) environment and may give students more latitude in their pursuits. I think it would be great for my mental health haha.

Of course, these are all just assumptions.

[PsychGirl1]

I'm not saying that all prestigious programs are like that, or all non-prestigious programs are like that. I just mean, it's important to consider every aspect of the program and what it can offer you. Sometimes the prestigious program will be best, sometimes the prestigious POI will be best... sometimes it won't be. That's all I was saying :-)

[rockmsockm]

I've lived in wisconsin my whole life. I currently work in one of the psychology labs at UW-Milwaukee. Although I did my undergrad at Marquette (hopefully doing grad there as well), I'm really familiar with UWM and a lot of my close friends have attended as well.

 

Feel free to message me if you'd like more detailed info.