Fall 2014 applicants??

[repentwalpurgis]

But that's life I guess.

[andromache]

Any literature applicants want to swap SoPs with me? I've just about finished drafting mine for University of Chicago (have no idea how to end it though...) and could use some feedback!

[BattyBoy]

The Statement of Purpose in Graduate Program Applications: Genre Structure and Disciplinary Variation

Samraj, Betty; Monk, Lenore

 

http://ge.tt/2QmZeXw/v/0?c

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here is some Sam Kinison to cheer you up

Sam Kinison - Have You Seen Me Lately

http://ge.tt/7OtZWVs/v/0?c

Edited October 29, 2013 by BattyBoy

[BattyBoy]

to those applying to Stanford, how do you tackle this in 700 characters...

 

Stanford University regards the diversity of its graduate student body as an important factor in serving the educational mission of the university. We encourage you to share unique, personally important, and/or challenging factors in your background, such as work and life experiences, special interests, culture, socioeconomic status, the quality of your early educational environment, gender, sexual orientation, race or ethnicity. Please discuss how such factors would contribute to the diversity of the entering class, and hence to the experience of your Stanford classmates.

[This particular application allows a 700 character limit for your answer]

[Datatape]

to those applying to Stanford, how do you tackle this in 700 characters...

 

Stanford University regards the diversity of its graduate student body as an important factor in serving the educational mission of the university. We encourage you to share unique, personally important, and/or challenging factors in your background, such as work and life experiences, special interests, culture, socioeconomic status, the quality of your early educational environment, gender, sexual orientation, race or ethnicity. Please discuss how such factors would contribute to the diversity of the entering class, and hence to the experience of your Stanford classmates.

[This particular application allows a 700 character limit for your answer]

 

[repentwalpurgis]

Tried the vodka approach last night with my writing sample.  Didn't go so great.

[champagne]

Tried the vodka approach last night with my writing sample.  Didn't go so great.

For the good of the order, PBR and Bourbon don't work well either.

[gatz]

to those applying to Stanford, how do you tackle this in 700 characters...

 

Stanford University regards the diversity of its graduate student body as an important factor in serving the educational mission of the university. We encourage you to share unique, personally important, and/or challenging factors in your background, such as work and life experiences, special interests, culture, socioeconomic status, the quality of your early educational environment, gender, sexual orientation, race or ethnicity. Please discuss how such factors would contribute to the diversity of the entering class, and hence to the experience of your Stanford classmates.

[This particular application allows a 700 character limit for your answer]

 

I genuinely have no idea how I'm gonna deal with this question on my applications. I've never faced any significant adversity (poor me). I hope my interests and perspective are interesting and add diversity to the department...but they decide that based on my application materials, no? 

[Romanista]

How much of an impact do you think alumni is on an application? Either through using a "recommender" who either taught or received their PhD from the school or alternatively having a family member that received a PhD from the school? 

[champagne]

How much of an impact do you think alumni is on an application? Either through using a "recommender" who either taught or received their PhD from the school or alternatively having a family member that received a PhD from the school? 

For the hyper-competitive schools, I would venture to say almost nil. If one of your recommenders is a particularly distinguished alumnus/a (i.e. highly publicized and known on a national level), then that might sway the committee some since graduates like that help programs gain notoriety, but I don't see much effect beyond that. That's just my opinion, so I'd be glad to defer to someone with more personal experience.

[Datatape]

How much of an impact do you think alumni is on an application? Either through using a "recommender" who either taught or received their PhD from the school or alternatively having a family member that received a PhD from the school? 

 

It didn't help me at all when applying.  One of my letter writers was an alum of Oregon and personally wrote to my POI, who sat on the admissions committee.  That's just my personal experience and doesn't relate to everyone, but I wouldn't hang too many hopes upon it.

[ComeBackZinc]

The reputation of the letter writer is very important, and the relationship he or she has with faculty at your target department is too, but I think being an alum in and of itself isn't a big deal.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Question about LOR since we're on this topic: should I have someone who was on my thesis committee write me a letter, even if I never took a class with them and they were basically a reader at the end of the process (though I think they have a good idea of my personality, and seem to be able to write nice letters--he had great comments about my thesis at the defense; actually he had some of the best comments even though the other two were more involved)? (note: I'm from a very small, no name school). 

 

Or, should I have someone who is from a top university in the world who I took a 4 week study abroad course with write me a letter. This person hadn't finished her PhD at the time I took the course with her--but, it was a one on one course designed to specifically help the writing of my thesis. I think she's finished her degree now and I think she would also have great things to say. I'm just wondering if the reputation of the place she teaches would catch someone's eye. I guess I should just list the school--it was Oxford. 

[repentwalpurgis]

Question about LOR since we're on this topic: should I have someone who was on my thesis committee write me a letter, even if I never took a class with them and they were basically a reader at the end of the process (though I think they have a good idea of my personality, and seem to be able to write nice letters--he had great comments about my thesis at the defense; actually he had some of the best comments even though the other two were more involved)? (note: I'm from a very small, no name school). 

 

Or, should I have someone who is from a top university in the world who I took a 4 week study abroad course with write me a letter. This person hadn't finished her PhD at the time I took the course with her--but, it was a one on one course designed to specifically help the writing of my thesis. I think she's finished her degree now and I think she would also have great things to say. I'm just wondering if the reputation of the place she teaches would catch someone's eye. I guess I should just list the school--it was Oxford. 

I would say: don't pay attention to the reputation of the person.  Email them or meet with them personally, and gauge their interest in your plans, and what they remember about your experience.  Remind them of stuff, too - "I remember you mentioned _______ about my paper / whatever, and it really made me develop a good sense of _______".... or, "I really worked hard in this course" (whatever applies). 

I had meetings with potential letter writers - walked in with the thought that I'd ask them for a letter, and their lukewarm response to our past experience (class) together didn't make me feel comfortable asking!  So I didn't - why waste their time (and likely mine too, if it's not a great letter)?  Those who seemed like the best fit as my letter writers were immediately enthusiastic about my research goals, asked me productive questions, and in one case, offered to write the letter without my asking. 

 

Also, if the second potential writer is now done with their Ph.D, there's no reason why a potential school should know that they didn't have it at the time of the course...they aren't looking at their CV, too (I think.  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong).  Still, to conclude: Test the waters.  Find your letter writers based on what they have to say about you.

Edited November 1, 2013 by repentwalpurgis

[ComeBackZinc]

On the one hand, I think that "left-handed" letters of rec can be the kiss of death, and if you're thinking of asking someone who doesn't know you because of Oxford's reputation, I agree: don't do it. Letters have to be from people who can genuinely write about and your strengths or they aren't worth reading, and adcomms can generally sniff those out very easily.

 

That said, as a general statement, "don't pay attention to the reputation of your letter writer" is just not helpful advice. The reputation of your letter writers is absolutely important. Just like the reputation of the school you're coming from. Just like your grades.

 

It's nice to imagine that applying to grad school is an entirely egalitarian process, but it's just not. Reputation matters. Prestige matters. It's way easier to get into grad school if you're coming from an elite undergrad or MA program. That's just true. Yes, of course: there are always exceptions, just like there are exceptions about getting in with bad grades. People get in who aren't from elite schools. But the existence of exceptions doesn't disprove the rule. I understand that this is a forum for advice and people want to be supportive. But if advice is going to be useful, it has to be accurate. The danger of a forum like this is that people feel worried about whatever the weak part of their application is, so they go looking for people to tell them that their weakness isn't a big deal. But some things are a big deal, most certainly including the reputation of the people writing your letters. 

 

I say this not to be a jerk, but because inevitably some people aren't going to get into the programs that they want, given the percentages. And when that happens, it makes it worse if they've been told over and over again that their weaknesses aren't worth worrying about. 

[Swagato]

^ I agree. Certainly, reputation matters. But there should be a balance between desiring the "value" of a reference's reputation and whether that person can truly write for you. As mentioned, a lukewarm, obligatory reference is not at all a good thing. 

[ComeBackZinc]

^ I agree. Certainly, reputation matters. But there should be a balance between desiring the "value" of a reference's reputation and whether that person can truly write for you. As mentioned, a lukewarm, obligatory reference is not at all a good thing. 

 

Yeah, that's a very important caveat.

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

Letters of Rec.

I'm in a small dept. of a small U. But I'll share my strategy.


I've identified key reasons I want to attend the Uni's I'm submiting to.
I've identified courses and documents from the classes with each prof.
I've included my C.V. as well as a statement about myself.

I've put all this information into folders and gave it to my 3 biggest supporters.

[repentwalpurgis]

On the one hand, I think that "left-handed" letters of rec can be the kiss of death, and if you're thinking of asking someone who doesn't know you because of Oxford's reputation, I agree: don't do it. Letters have to be from people who can genuinely write about and your strengths or they aren't worth reading, and adcomms can generally sniff those out very easily.

 

That said, as a general statement, "don't pay attention to the reputation of your letter writer" is just not helpful advice. The reputation of your letter writers is absolutely important. Just like the reputation of the school you're coming from. Just like your grades.

 

It's nice to imagine that applying to grad school is an entirely egalitarian process, but it's just not. Reputation matters. Prestige matters. It's way easier to get into grad school if you're coming from an elite undergrad or MA program. That's just true. Yes, of course: there are always exceptions, just like there are exceptions about getting in with bad grades. People get in who aren't from elite schools. But the existence of exceptions doesn't disprove the rule. I understand that this is a forum for advice and people want to be supportive. But if advice is going to be useful, it has to be accurate. The danger of a forum like this is that people feel worried about whatever the weak part of their application is, so they go looking for people to tell them that their weakness isn't a big deal. But some things are a big deal, most certainly including the reputation of the people writing your letters. 

 

I say this not to be a jerk, but because inevitably some people aren't going to get into the programs that they want, given the percentages. And when that happens, it makes it worse if they've been told over and over again that their weaknesses aren't worth worrying about. 

I don't think you were being a jerk at all.  Thanks for correcting me. 

[Romanista]

Generally speaking, will schools consider GRE scores if taken a second time after the deadline has passed? In other words, if I apply to a school before the deadline passes and then afterwards retake the GRE will the school take that second score into consideration? I'm particularly worried about this with regards to UCLA, as their deadline is a month from now and there is no way I could submit two GRE scores in that time...

[Datatape]

Generally speaking, will schools consider GRE scores if taken a second time after the deadline has passed? In other words, if I apply to a school before the deadline passes and then afterwards retake the GRE will the school take that second score into consideration? I'm particularly worried about this with regards to UCLA, as their deadline is a month from now and there is no way I could submit two GRE scores in that time...

 

My guess would be probably not, but with that said, you may want to write the graduate director and ask if they would consider a supplementation to your application after the deadline had passed.  Some schools will, some won't, but it doesn't hurt to ask.  I was concerned last year about my GRE subject scores arriving after the deadline for three of the schools I was applying to, so I emailed graduate directors about it.  One very politely told me to go pound sand, but the other two were very encouraging and told me to go ahead and apply; it was more of a concern for the Graduate School than the English Department.  I ended up getting waitlisted at one of those schools, so it's definitely not a kiss of death.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

On the one hand, I think that "left-handed" letters of rec can be the kiss of death, and if you're thinking of asking someone who doesn't know you because of Oxford's reputation, I agree: don't do it. Letters have to be from people who can genuinely write about and your strengths or they aren't worth reading, and adcomms can generally sniff those out very easily.

 

 

 

 

I would say: don't pay attention to the reputation of the person.  Email them or meet with them personally, and gauge their interest in your plans, and what they remember about your experience.  Remind them of stuff, too - "I remember you mentioned _______ about my paper / whatever, and it really made me develop a good sense of _______".... or, "I really worked hard in this course" (whatever applies). 

I had meetings with potential letter writers - walked in with the thought that I'd ask them for a letter, and their lukewarm response to our past experience (class) together didn't make me feel comfortable asking!  So I didn't - why waste their time (and likely mine too, if it's not a great letter)?  Those who seemed like the best fit as my letter writers were immediately enthusiastic about my research goals, asked me productive questions, and in one case, offered to write the letter without my asking. 

 

Also, if the second potential writer is now done with their Ph.D, there's no reason why a potential school should know that they didn't have it at the time of the course...they aren't looking at their CV, too (I think.  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong).  Still, to conclude: Test the waters.  Find your letter writers based on what they have to say about you.

 

Thanks for the advice! I think both letter writers would be able to say good things and both of them are willing to do so. With the person who was on my committee, he could speak to the value of my thesis, my writing style, and possibly my personality, etc. But, we've never really spoken more than a handful of times. 

 

With the person from Oxford, she's seen more of my writing in terms of different papers (not page length because obviously my thesis was longer). We also had a one on one class together. And, she's from Oxford, which does matter. I know she would have nice things to say and it would be personalized. 

 

Niether letter would be lukewarm. The only reason I'm leaning towards the one who looked at my thesis is because he already wrote letters for me last year, and he said he would do it again. I haven't asked the Oxford person yet, and I did ask the thesis person so I would feel weird telling him I don't need his letters anymore. 

 

Ugh. I don't know what to do...I'm thinking if the Oxford person is willing to do it then I'll have her do it since prestige matters and my MA program is definitely not prestigious. How do I go about turning the other person down after they've already agreed to write them?

[champagne]

It's nice to imagine that applying to grad school is an entirely egalitarian process, but it's just not. Reputation matters. Prestige matters. It's way easier to get into grad school if you're coming from an elite undergrad or MA program. That's just true.

 

Well, poop.

[andromache]

On the one hand, I think that "left-handed" letters of rec can be the kiss of death, and if you're thinking of asking someone who doesn't know you because of Oxford's reputation, I agree: don't do it. Letters have to be from people who can genuinely write about and your strengths or they aren't worth reading, and adcomms can generally sniff those out very easily.

 

That said, as a general statement, "don't pay attention to the reputation of your letter writer" is just not helpful advice. The reputation of your letter writers is absolutely important. Just like the reputation of the school you're coming from. Just like your grades.

 

It's nice to imagine that applying to grad school is an entirely egalitarian process, but it's just not. Reputation matters. Prestige matters. It's way easier to get into grad school if you're coming from an elite undergrad or MA program. That's just true. Yes, of course: there are always exceptions, just like there are exceptions about getting in with bad grades. People get in who aren't from elite schools. But the existence of exceptions doesn't disprove the rule. I understand that this is a forum for advice and people want to be supportive. But if advice is going to be useful, it has to be accurate. The danger of a forum like this is that people feel worried about whatever the weak part of their application is, so they go looking for people to tell them that their weakness isn't a big deal. But some things are a big deal, most certainly including the reputation of the people writing your letters. 

 

I say this not to be a jerk, but because inevitably some people aren't going to get into the programs that they want, given the percentages. And when that happens, it makes it worse if they've been told over and over again that their weaknesses aren't worth worrying about. 

 

Well, this is kind of depressing.

[ComeBackZinc]

Don't let it depress you! Just let it focus you. Like I said: people get into good programs from noncompetitive colleges and with letters from professors who don't have a national reputation. I'm not at all saying it doesn't happen. I am saying that let's remember that exceptions are rarer than the rule. I think that a really good idea in this process is to worry about changing the things that you can change. Get your SOP as good as you can possibly make it. Make sure your writing sample is indicative of the absolutely best of your abilities. Change what you can change. But also prepare yourself emotionally and practically for the fact that this process is very competitive, and there's a degree of arbitrariness that should keep you from being too emotionally invested in the results from a particular school. (Easier said than done, I know.) Cast your nets wide. I don't mean to say that there's no hope, because there is. I just mean to say that, for good or bad, the prestige of the institution that you're coming from and the people who are recommending you do matter in the process. Just worry about what you control.