ThD vs. PhD

[yhujikol]

Thoughts?

[Yetanotherdegree]

Have you read this? http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowell/2009/03/advice-about-duke-thd-and-phd-programs-in-theology.html I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm planning on applying to one ThD and about 4 PhD programs next year. I think the ThD is a good program for me as I anticipate that most of my future work will be in Christian institutions. I am limited in where I can apply due to spouse and family obligations, so I'm choosing programs within a certain area. If I were to get into both the ThD and the PhD at the one really excellent institution in my location, I would probably pick the PhD, all other things being equal. But a top-tier ThD is better than a second-rate PhD... I'm interested to see the responses here.

[yhujikol]

But a top-tier ThD is better than a second-rate PhD... I'm interested to see the responses here.

 

 

That's what I would assume. I feel like it should all depend on placement info, but I'm having a hard time deciding, especially since I am not religious.

[Josh J.]

But a top-tier ThD is better than a second-rate PhD...I'm interested to see the responses here.

I would agree with this sentiment, but considering the job market, and the fact that many academics are recommending you take any tenure-track offer you can get, I have a feeling that having PhD after your name might be better.

Josh

[littera scripta]

Have you read this? http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowell/2009/03/advice-about-duke-thd-and-phd-programs-in-theology.html

 

According to this article, it looks like there's not a significant difference between the ThD and the PhD, at least at Duke.  You have access to pretty much all of the same profs and courses.  So, continuing to use Duke as an example, if you were drawn there because of the professors, there would be no reason to prefer the PhD over the ThD other than the "prestige," real or imagined, of graduating from a Graduate Program rather than a Divinity Program.  But lets face it, a degree from Duke is a degree from Duke.  Same would go for any of the top-tier programs that offer ThD's.

[Yetanotherdegree]

According to this article, it looks like there's not a significant difference between the ThD and the PhD, at least at Duke.  You have access to pretty much all of the same profs and courses.  So, continuing to use Duke as an example, if you were drawn there because of the professors, there would be no reason to prefer the PhD over the ThD other than the "prestige," real or imagined, of graduating from a Graduate Program rather than a Divinity Program. 

Right. The degrees are basically the same. But you can use a PhD at a faculty of religion or a div school and nobody will question your qualifications. A ThD works fine at a divinity school or seminary but may be seen as "too religious" for the more secular departments of religion. I think a PhD is just slightly more mainstream and therefore slightly more useful for those who might be interested in secular institutions.

[yhujikol]

Exactly. But as an atheist whose background, research, and proposed doctoral work is in no way theological, I'm assuming that having been admitted to a ThD means I shouldn't worry about it being too religious. I am, however concerned about how the job market would greet a ThD, even if it is from a top-tier program. But you're all right, same EXACT program.

[sacklunch]

Also an atheist, often working within "theology." I wouldn't worry about it too much. Let's be clear: we are not talking about "John Smith's Seminary." This is Harvard. Anyone working within the field, secular or religious, will understand that their ThD is the exact same degree. In fact many top schools will offer some sort of seemingly theologically motivated degree (eg all the 'theology' departments with plenty of people studying very secular things: ND, BC, ect), yet it doesn't seem to matter much. 

Edited March 5, 2013 by jdmhotness

[yhujikol]

Thank you all so much for your insights. I really appreciate the conversation.

[Body Politics]

What is the point of offering a ThD, then? I don't get it.

[LisaTO]

At harvard, a report was released last year that recommended getting rid of the ThD. It's an old degree, and I think there are different sources of funding, though.

[Yetanotherdegree]

What is the point of offering a ThD, then? I don't get it.

A ThD is offered through a divinity school, a PhD through a department of religion. The ThD allows the divinity school to offer and administer its own academic doctorate and is often more appealing to people whose background is ministry and/or divinity school. They also have separate funding and sometimes slightly different ideas about the relevance of ministry or faith in the academic process, even if the committees are made up of the same people. I can see why a divinity faculty would want to offer their own academic doctorate. I think perhaps they just need to own up to the fact that it's basically interchangeable with the PhD and call it that instead of a ThD...

[newenglandshawn]

I think perhaps they just need to own up to the fact that it's basically interchangeable with the PhD and call it that instead of a ThD.

 

I'm assuming that it is not they who do not want to call it a PhD but other programs within the school who don't want them to call it such. Just a hunch!

[Body Politics]

A ThD is offered through a divinity school, a PhD through a department of religion. The ThD allows the divinity school to offer and administer its own academic doctorate and is often more appealing to people whose background is ministry and/or divinity school. They also have separate funding and sometimes slightly different ideas about the relevance of ministry or faith in the academic process, even if the committees are made up of the same people. I can see why a divinity faculty would want to offer their own academic doctorate. I think perhaps they just need to own up to the fact that it's basically interchangeable with the PhD and call it that instead of a ThD...

I get what the degree is, I just don't understand why the department would offer it as a ThD rather than, say, just a PhD in theology/New Testament/Hebrew Bible, etc. 

[Yetanotherdegree]

I get what the degree is, I just don't understand why the department would offer it as a ThD rather than, say, just a PhD in theology/New Testament/Hebrew Bible, etc. 

It's to differentiate between the div school's academic doctorate and the more secular departments. There may be in-house politics that affect which schools can grant which degrees, but the basic reason for it is simply to indicate where in the broader academic institution the degree came from. It's not complicated, just annoying.

[la sarar]

A ThD is offered through a divinity school, a PhD through a department of religion. The ThD allows the divinity school to offer and administer its own academic doctorate and is often more appealing to people whose background is ministry and/or divinity school. They also have separate funding and sometimes slightly different ideas about the relevance of ministry or faith in the academic process, even if the committees are made up of the same people. I can see why a divinity faculty would want to offer their own academic doctorate. I think perhaps they just need to own up to the fact that it's basically interchangeable with the PhD and call it that instead of a ThD...

 

U of Chicago Div School offers a PhD, though. They also offer MA instead of MTS.

Is it true that in Europe many Bible degrees are more often than not ThD-s? 

I think one professor at Toronto NELC is a ThD from Helsinki. I think this is a very good example that a ThD doesn't prevent you from teaching at a non-seminary institution.