Is it common to decline all offers and try again the following year?

[potential_phd]

Have any of you ever heard of or experienced anyone declining all of their offers and re-attempting applications the following year? I am seriously considering it.

[stephchristine0]

There was 54 MILLION cut from funded research. Unless you are working for Bama's brain project, or going into an IT field, you gotta shape up a game plan.  

[OhMySocks]

I don't know about others but I'm seriously thinking about it.

 

I think I need someone to tell me if its complete madness. I have a few offers but I'm not particularly excited about any of them. I feel like I know so much more about the process and so much more about myself after this, and a big part of what I've learned is that I don't know really know what I want to study. After interviewing with a lot of professors and visiting their labs I find myself drawn to a different area of research much more than what I've been accepted for. I guess I'm afraid of being stuck in a lab that my enthusiasm is flagging for, and I'm worried about how departments would look at me leaving a school to reapply. I also think I know my weaknesses (not a ton of research experience, I didn't know how to contact professors or judge departments, all of which I think I could improve, I didn't have a clear picture of what I was interested in, and I think if I take a year I could get a much better idea of this).

 

I'm desperately emailing professors in the field I'm more excited about to see if anybody would let me do research with them in any capacity. I'm a year out of school and it doesn't help that my UG doesn't even have a group in that research area so I can't work with anybody I already know. 

 

On the other hand, I have an offer at a decent school with a fellowship. I don't want to stay in my current job for another year, and I'm not sure what I'd do otherwise. 

[zabius]

I'm sure it happens. But I guess the question is, why would you? I assume that you would have applied only to schools that you legitimately wanted to attend, so why say "no" once they've accepted you?

 

If it's a funding issue (say, none of the programs offered enough money to make ends meet) or a fit issue (e.g. you visited the schools and found out that they all were really not what you thought they would be like), then I can understand why you'd be tempted to decline your offers. In fact, I'd do the same... an unfunded offer just isn't worth it, nor is spending 5 years at a school which just isn't a good match for you.

 

But if you're declining legitimately good offers just because you didn't get into your top choice, I'd advise against that. With all of the funding cuts that stephchristine0 mentioned, many schools are going to most likely accept far fewer applicants next year-- they simply won't have enough money to take on as many students as they usually do. So, your chances of being accepted next year to any given program are probably lower than they otherwise would be. If you have good offers now, even if those programs were your 2nd or 3rd choice, it's probably smartest to accept one of them.

 

That's just my opinion, though.

Edited April 2, 2013 by zabius

[potential_phd]

54 million cut from funded research worldwide?

Where does this number come from?

 

I have an offer from a well-known and highly ranked school but with little money, and an offer from a less-regarded school with loads of money. 

I am considering maybe re-attempting next year to apply to more schools in the UK and Australia, although I don't know the funding situation. I don't think I could get better funding from any school in my country than the offer I have from the less-regarded school (in my field anyways).

[sweetpearl16]

I think if there is a good reason to do so, then it is not wrong to turn down your offers. Actually I am doing that. I am declining one because of lack of funding (which really made me sad) and another because of an overall lack of fit (like Zabius said,I visited the school after the fact and learned it wasn't what I was expecting. Lesson learned: visit before you apply). I've talked over my feelings with both my adviser and another very trusted professor, and they stand behind my decision and think it would be best for me to try again next year. I went straight from my BA to my MA, so they think a year off would probably do me good. I am planning on taking the year to gain further experience in my field and try to get an article I am currently writing published. 

Edited April 2, 2013 by sweetpearl16

[potential_phd]

I cannot talk over anything with my advisors or professors because one of the schools I am considering is the school I am already at and so it is a conflict of interest to them. I am really torn on what to do and I don't want to commit academic suicide by taking the better-funded but less prestigious offer. So I am kind of in a strange place.

[zabius]

54 million cut from funded research worldwide?

Where does this number come from?

 

I have an offer from a well-known and highly ranked school but with little money, and an offer from a less-regarded school with loads of money. 

I am considering maybe re-attempting next year to apply to more schools in the UK and Australia, although I don't know the funding situation. I don't think I could get better funding from any school in my country than the offer I have from the less-regarded school (in my field anyways).

 

I didn't realize you were in Canada (note to me: learn to read ). A lot of the budget cuts being referred to are federal cuts in the US, due in large part to the "sequester." I don't know what the situation is in Canada or elsewhere. But if competition gets a lot tighter at US schools, there may be many more applicants trying to get into schools in Canada and overseas. It could cause a ripple effect of sorts that makes admissions more competitive everywhere...

 

Personally, I'd be tempted to take the well-funded offer that you have now unless the research fit is really poor. What are the job placement stats for this school? Do their graduates tend to go on to the types of careers that you're interested in? "Prestige" isn't everything, though sometimes it can be a predictor of job placement.

Edited April 2, 2013 by zabius

[Lucia Werd]

How about the option of accepting one offer (since you don't seem to want to stay in your current job)

You can judge once you are there if you really love it or not.  And nothing stops you from applying again next year for a program change or to a new school and transfer. 

[nackteziege]

I'm struggling with whether or not a PhD is 100% for me.  The advice given by one of my current professors?  "You can always quit."

 

When it comes down to it, will I actually start a program and quit?  Pending some incredibly unforeseen circumstance, no.  However, at least in my department, they know it happens.  They are used to losing students due to life changes, ultimate poor fit, etc.  It's kind of hard right now, in the somewhat self-centered midst of applying, to lose sight of the fact that we're kind of expendable and programs are rejected and left by students yearly...and life goes on.

Edited April 2, 2013 by nackteziege

[msocean]

There was 54 MILLION cut from funded research. Unless you are working for Bama's brain project, or going into an IT field, you gotta shape up a game plan.  

$54 BBBBBBBillion! over the next 5 years.  Any funded opportunity is starting to look really sweet.

[sweetpearl16]

That is true. I know that I took a risk by giving up a well funded option. And I know that I may not get in somewhere else next year because of these budget cuts. But personally I would not want to go somewhere where I would be miserable just because they gave me money. 

[potential_phd]

That makes sense. Both of the places are a really good fit for me, so I'm not sure what to do. Although if funding is looking bleak for next year, maybe I should just count my blessings and take the funded offer?

[stephchristine0]

$54 BBBBBBBillion! over the next 5 years.  Any funded opportunity is starting to look really sweet.

Oh god, I was wrong. Where's the article by the way? Lol, I don't like to be caught without the source! For science!

[wtncffts]

Were the schools you applied to in Canada? If so, I have a hard time believing that the 'less prestigious' school is really so much so that you'd consider not going with funding and, as you say, a good fit. Relatively speaking, there aren't that many PhD granting schools and the range is much smaller. There must've also been reasons why you applied in the first place.

 

Why would it be a conflict to talk about it with your current advisors? It's not any more so than getting letters of recommendation from them for their own department, as I assume you did, and which happens all the time. It's perfectly legitimate to talk it over; yeah, they might try to hard sell the program, but there's nothing wrong with that, and it's ultimately up to you.    

[potential_phd]

wtnfffts, my advisors actually told me they couldn't really tell me either way because of their affiliation with one of the universities I was considering. It might not be against policy, but maybe they just felt uncomfortable....

 

and yes, all the schools I applied to are in Canada.

[iowaguy]

I think competition for PhD spots in future years is going to be very tough due to lack of funding.  # applicants has been increasing at all of the schools I applied to, and with future funding on the decline you have a very bleak picture for future FUNDED Phd spots, IMHO.

 

If it's a good school and a liveable stipend, I would personally accept the offer.  Many POI's let you craft your specific research path within their lab, assuming there is some overlap with their background/strengths.  My research interests don't align exactly with my POI, but we overlap some and by tapping into a couple of committee members (who overlap with me in areas that my POI doesn't) I hope to have access to all of the expertise that I'll need for a kick-ass dissertation.  YMMV.

[TakeruK]

Canada has been pretty safe from the economic issues of the last decade. However, the Canadian government has been cutting back on research too -- I remember a NRC cut / government mandated focus shift from pure / theoretical sciences to something that would have more economic / practical impacts. This is not at the scale of the US cuts though, but then again, our entire budget isn't at the scale of the US. That is, funding in Canada is generally lower anyways, so a small decrease won't have much of an impact. Graduate students are funded much differently in Canada too. When a prof in the US gets a grant, the school often takes a big chunk out for overhead fees. A grad student in the US cost much more than just their stipend due to this (and tuition). A grad student might cost a US school as much as $100,000 per year! But in Canada, the cost is usually much less, especially since our tuition ranges from $4000 to $6000 per year. So, I don't think there is a bleak future, at least in Canada, for funded MSc/MA/PhD spots. In the sciences, they would not stop funding grad students -- they might reduce the number of students accepted, but everyone will still have funding.

 

Anyways, I think this really depends on what you want to do with your life after grad school. If you want to be able to work as a postdoc abroad, and go into academia, then Canadian schools are already "unknown" enough that going to a smaller program will hurt you. Also, depending on your field and the schools you're talking about, the opportunities and resources available to you might be very different too. In my signature, you'll see that I went from a big school to a smaller, less funded program (Queen's isn't that small, but the program I went to was!) from BSc to MSc. Queen's actually did end up giving me the best stipend, and my main reason for choosing Queen's was to work with a specific prof. However, being in a small department in middle-of-nowhere-Kingston did make some things harder! For example, it might be hard to get guest speakers from other schools to come to Kingston (the only way here is to drive, take an unreliable train, or a really expensive flight from Toronto). The department/school, being smaller, might just not have the infrastructure to provide library support, computer support, etc. I was lucky that I still had access to UBC's Library services through my Alumni Card, since the Queen's Library did not subscribe to some important journals. I'm not trying to put down my former school here, I'm sure they are doing the best they can with the resources they have!

 

I would echo iowaguy's advice to go to the school with better opportunities as long as the stipend is enough to live on. Can you apply for external fellowships? What if you bring up the money issue with your advisors at your current school -- can they work something out? I can't imagine stipends being so vastly different in Canada -- I think the values of my offer just varied by a few thousand per year -- which is a substantial amount of our budgets right now, but in the long term, it might be a worthwhile investment.

 

As for foreign universities, I also looked at UK and Australia. These were nice because being Commonwealth countries, it's much easier for us Canadians to do the immigration stuff and my spouse would have been able to work there without any problems. However, the UK schools have very little funding for international students. Many programs I looked at basically said that we would have to win a fellowship to be able to study there. It seems like a competition at the level of an NSERC but there are also awards granted by the school as well (something like 1-2 dozen for the entire school). Australia had similar funding issues. The fact is, the best funding opportunities for most students is usually their home country! Even a good fully funded offer from aboard will probably cost you more in the long run for things like moving expenses, trips home etc. I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to go aboard, just that I wouldn't expect funding there to be any better. But definitely go if that's the best for you (whether that's research fit or just wanting to travel!).

 

Actually, despite what was said above regarding the funding in the US, I still think American schools are the best place for Canadians to apply for and get full funding. Even with the increased cost of them paying our international tuition, some schools out there will give pretty generous stipends and have the resources to help your research succeed too! Many US universities have budgets that dwarf the best Canadian schools! US Immigration has also made things a bit easier for Canadians (e.g. we don't need a visa, just apply for foreign student status). You could do what I did and stay in Canada for a Masters then go to the US for a PhD. There's lots of personal reasons why I did this but academically, it was because right out of undergrad, I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend 5+ years in grad school and the rest of my life in research so a MSc was a good way to test the waters. Be warned though, many US PhD programs don't recognize Masters for credit so you'd have to start all over again. On the other hand, you could also do a Masters in Canada then do a 3-year PhD in the UK or Australia.

 

Anyways, we might have the same undergrad school and although we are probably in different fields, we might have still considered the same schools. If you'd like, send me a PM and we can discuss more details that we might not want to put in a public forum!

[potential_phd]

TakeruK,

 

I actually did my undergrad in the US and moved to Canada. Part of the reason I applied to Canadian schools only for my doctorate  is because I am applying for permanent residency (through my partner) and I don't want to leave Canada - I am a US citizen. I have small children so I really do not want to be in the states, for several reasons. 

If you want more detail, I did my Master's at UBC, and I am deciding between UBC and Calgary for my doctorate. There are reasons why the program at Calgary would be a better fit for me research-wise, but it is so much lower ranked that I get nervous about accepting their offer when I have one from UBC. 

 

And thank you, that is all very good information!

[TakeruK]

I think if you are planning on staying in Canada for the time being, the University of Calgary, while not one of the top "brand power" name schools, it is not terrible (maybe you've seen this: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2012/11/01/2013-medical-doctoral/) Obviously, the ranking within your field is far more important, though, so it would be hard for us to know how to balance out research-fit with prestige!

[potential_phd]

I think it is difficult because my field isn't generally "ranked", so no matter where I look I can't seem to find any information about my department itself. All I really have to go on is the school rankings. I know the professors in my field that teach there are well-respected, but I don't know if that makes a difference.

[battleidiot]

I'm in a similar boat but just because I feel like i underestimated my applications this year because I applied for graduate school last year but was not accepted to many schools that I would like to attend. 

But then again, I have a higher GRE score, a better recommendation and essay so I didn't know what to expect.. I should be thankful for the many acceptances that I already do have though and I am deciding

between 2 schools currently. 

[msocean]

Oh god, I was wrong. Where's the article by the way? Lol, I don't like to be caught without the source! For science!

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/30/scientist-alternative-career/2002879/

 

http://aas.org/posts/news/2013/02/aaas-asks-you-speak-science

 

http://inscope.iu.edu/headlines/2013-02-28-headline-sequestration-impact-inscope.shtml

[nackteziege]

I think it is difficult because my field isn't generally "ranked", so no matter where I look I can't seem to find any information about my department itself. All I really have to go on is the school rankings. I know the professors in my field that teach there are well-respected, but I don't know if that makes a difference.

 

Mine isn't either, especially at the PhD level.  There is one ranking system for graduate programs but it focuses on the Master's.  If the professors are well-respected they are likely to have connections which may help you down the line.

[juilletmercredi]

I don't know how common it is, but I've definitely heard of it happening.  It's not madness.  It doesn't make sense to go somewhere and spend 5-6 years when you aren't excited about it, especially if your interests have significantly shifted.  Personally, I think it makes much more sense to take an extra year to figure yourself out and make the changes necessary to get into a program you really want to attend than it does to attend a school that you don't really want to attend, running the risk that 2 or 3 years in you'll realize you've wasted your time and you really want out.

 

I especially don't think that you should go to a program thinking that if you hate it, you can just quit.  Quitting is emotionally much more difficult than people expect it to be, as evidenced by several posts on these fora.  I've struggled with feelings of wanting to quit pretty much since my third year of my PhD program, and I am finishing up my fifth.  At this point, I'm simply going to finish because I only have the dissertation left and I actually enjoy writing and data analysis, but if I was at the same place at the end of my 2nd year as I was now I would've left then.  It literally took me 2 years to get to feeling like it was "ok" for me to leave if I wanted to.

 

Attending just because you can't figure out what else you'll do is also a terrible idea. Graduate school is hard enough without apathy.