Unexpected Second-Round Funding from SIPA = DILEMMA

[DaniCM]

So, originally, I hadn't received any funding from SIPA, whereas I did get $19K/year from Fletcher. However, quite unexpectedly, I received an email from the SIPA financial aid folks on Friday informing me I was the recipient of a first-year, $15K fellowship. I'm thrilled to receive such a generous fellowship from a school that generally isn't known for first-year funding, but now I'm torn between SIPA and Fletcher! (I realize this is the very definition of a first world problem.) I thought I had made up my mind, and I resigned myself to attending Fletcher in the fall (both mentally and fiscally, having already paid my non-refundable deposit), but now I'm considering SIPA again and have until May 1 to decide.

 

So, when I began this whole application process, SIPA was my top choice school, but that was largely before I did a lot of research. I think I was primarily attracted to the ivy league brand and the idea of living in NYC. But, throughout the process, I became gradually turned off by SIPA. I felt their communication was lacking and impersonal. I even got an email from them saying, "Dear (insert admitted student name here)," and, yes, that was after having ben admitted. On the other hand, Fletcher continued to impress me over the last few months. They preemptively reached out to me numerous times to update me on my application status, wrote me a personal email letting me know what a joy it was to read my application, sent me a hand-written note thanking me for applying, and offered me a travel grant to attend their open house. (quite the seducers.)

 

I attended the open house (and neglected to attend SIPA's. ugh), but the experience left me wanting. I was impressed by the academic and professional experiences of the students, and by the prestige of the faculty...I definitely think it'd be a stellar education, but I really wasn't feeling the Medford area, and I didn't seem to connect with many admits on a more personal/social level. I've kind of been dreading the idea of moving up to Medford and leaving my friends in DC to be cold and lonely (albeit sufficiently intellectually stimulated) in Medford. This is not the feeling I want before leaving for grad school.

 

So when I got that email from SIPA, I was instantly excited about the prospect of being in NYC. But even if I get the coveted second-year TA position, I will still have at least $20K more debt than I would have had at Fletcher. And I'm still nervous about how impersonal the school is. I heard the professors aren't that accessible (either more into their own research or have jobs in the city) and class sizes are large. OCS is awful, admissions and financial aid aren't much better, and you're largely on your own to figure out career opportunities. I haven't heard too much about the alumni network, or how willing alumni are to help hook you up with jobs and internships. And all of this negative stuff is completely antithetical to what I experienced at Fletcher. 

 

I will say, from perusing the course list, there were more courses at SIPA I was interested in. And I find the caliber of the faculty very impressive. Plus the cost of living in Harlem is somewhat comparable to Davis Square...

 

Anyway, I'm talking myself in circles. Does anyone have any insight? Particularly those who attended the open house and can address some of my above-noted concerns? 

[NGP]

From what I've heard from friends at both Fletcher and SIPA, there are more superstars at SIPA, but it's difficult to interact with them.  Fletcher seems to foster better student-teacher interactions.

[flyingjellyfish]

I've read through a lot of your posts over the past few months (I completely commiserate on the stress of ruminating over different options!).  It's definitely worth thinking things through again with this new information, but I also think you already made your decision on this earlier this month.  This news doesn't change the situation too much since SIPA is still more expensive than Fletcher in terms of tuition and NY living expenses. 

 

How did you feel when you got the news from SIPA about funding?  You mentioned that when you got the news from SIPA you felt excited about living in NYC.  Did you also feel excited, happy, even a little relieved that you could study at SIPA now instead of Fletcher?  Or did you feel worried, stressed, and perhaps a sinking feeling of "oh no, now I have to rethink everything!"?  That initial feeling is very important.  Unless you feel excited about this new opportunity to go to SIPA, I say continue on with Fletcher. Not enough has changed to justify derailing yourself from a decision you already spent a lot of time making.

 

And best of luck!

[soaps]

The only thing that might be wrong of the negatives you listed: I've talked to friends and other current SIPA students outside admitted students day, and they think most professors (except maybe the all-star faculty) make themselves very available. The trouble is probably that there are so many big names at SIPA... I doubt Stiglitz holds office hours, for example. I found the faculty at each concentration session I attended very warm and inviting, so maybe you have time to make a short trip up to SIPA to visit with faculty/staff to make your decision.

Best of luck deciding! 

Edited April 23, 2013 by soaps

[gatsby8724]

DaniCM -- I too commiserate on the stress of ruminating over different options!  You really can't go wrong with either option, but you want to pick the BEST of those options. 

 

I attended SIPA's admitted day and can give you my impressions but they were also supposed to post webcasts of the main sessions on their YouTube channel so you can see for yourself.  I ultimately ended up turning down my SIPA offer (which included a $28K fellowship and a spot in the IFP).  I share your concern about the large/impersonal nature of the program, and that concern was not at all assuaged by Admitted Students Day.  I also felt like the faculty were really trying to sell the SIPA brand vs. the merits of the academic program itself (which became confusing with all the concentrations, specializations and special programs).

 

I decided on another program that I instantly knew was the right fit for me upon attending their Admit Day.  I was definitely nervous though that I wouldn't feel this way and my choice would not be as obvious.

 

I too have read a lot of your posts and I think flyingjellyfish's response is right on the mark -- I think you're going to have a great experience at Fletcher!  I have a number of former colleagues who are Fletcher grads and cannot say enough about their positive experiences.

 

Best of luck!

[hesadork]

Well first, congratulations!  You should feel really amazing about this turn of events, even if it's creating some angst.

 

As an outside observer, I think the cons you listed for SIPA are quite a bit more negative than the ones you listed for Fletcher (location, social connections with other students).  Boston is a great town to be a student!

 

Be really thoughtful about the finances.  SIPA is giving you less money and for only a year.  How will you feel if you don't get the 2nd year TA-ship (which virtually everyone on these boards is pursuing)?  NYC is amazing (it's been my home for the past 16 years!) but it is a tough place to live and is super expensive, even in Morningside Heights.

 

So I think you should stick with Fletcher.

 

Best of luck with your choice!

[DaniCM]

Hi all! First, thank you so much for your genuine advice and empathy! Like most of you, I've spent a lot of time on these boards and have become familiar with a few posters impaticular, Jellyfish, Soaps, Gatsby...and it's definitely great to have had people to share this experience with! I feel like we're all friends! haha.

 

I attended SIPA's admitted day and can give you my impressions but they were also supposed to post webcasts of the main sessions on their YouTube channel so you can see for yourself.  I ultimately ended up turning down my SIPA offer (which included a $28K fellowship and a spot in the IFP).  I share your concern about the large/impersonal nature of the program, and that concern was not at all assuaged by Admitted Students Day.  I also felt like the faculty were really trying to sell the SIPA brand vs. the merits of the academic program itself (which became confusing with all the concentrations, specializations and special programs).

 

That definitely doesn't bode well for SIPA, but I'm not surprised. Even at the Fletcher open house, the admissions staff there echoed similar sentiments. I did watch the open house videos, and the alumni panel in particular assuaged some of these fears, as a number of students spoke about personal relationships they had built with professors. But, I will say, compared to Fletcher, they made these relationships seem out of the norm - or at least that they had to put a lot of effort into making them happen. Also, I was surprised watching all the videos and reading some of their student-run newspaper how much partying was emphasized. I guess that was one thing I felt that was lacking at Fletcher, but I SIPA kind of went too far in the opposite direction. I want to have fun, but education is foremost. I was also worried about a possiible bubble effect around the SIPA campus, and the north west side of NYC, which doesn't seem to be as lively or offer the NYC living as the lower east side. And I agree with you that the brand and prestige of the professors was really pushed, with much less emphasis on the individual programs.

 

How did you feel when you got the news from SIPA about funding?  You mentioned that when you got the news from SIPA you felt excited about living in NYC.  Did you also feel excited, happy, even a little relieved that you could study at SIPA now instead of Fletcher?  Or did you feel worried, stressed, and perhaps a sinking feeling of "oh no, now I have to rethink everything!"?  That initial feeling is very important.  Unless you feel excited about this new opportunity to go to SIPA, I say continue on with Fletcher. Not enough has changed to justify derailing yourself from a decision you already spent a lot of time making.

 

I was definitely more excited about the city and the brand. I know that sounds shallow. I guess coming from a small town in AZ and being lower-middle class, the idea of attending an Ivy League was something I never thought was possible...it feels like a Cinderella story. But after that intial, shallow excitement, I was stressed about having to weigh my options, especially since I didn't attend the open house.

 

As an outside observer, I think the cons you listed for SIPA are quite a bit more negative than the ones you listed for Fletcher (location, social connections with other students).  Boston is a great town to be a student!

 

Be really thoughtful about the finances.  SIPA is giving you less money and for only a year.  How will you feel if you don't get the 2nd year TA-ship (which virtually everyone on these boards is pursuing)?  NYC is amazing (it's been my home for the past 16 years!) but it is a tough place to live and is super expensive, even in Morningside Heights.

 

You're so right. And the pragmatic side of me is screaming that. I guess I'm just really bothered that, unlike Gatsby, I didn't have that instantaneous feeling of "this is the right place for me" at Fletcher, and actually left the open house worrying about how happy I'd be outside of the academics. I think had I had that feeling, I wouldn't be seriously considering Columbia now. Columbia seems to perfectly make up what Fletcher lacked - more socially extroverted students and a fun city that I have always wanted to live in. But I don't think that those benefits make up for the impersonal nature of the program. Close relationships and access to professors is very important to me. Especially because part of me thinks I didn't give Boston or Fletcher admits a fair shake. Everyone is nervous during open house. They're trying to make the best academic and professional impression they can. Plus, I didn't get to explore Boston or Davis Square and all my friends who have spent time there rave about it. And, of course, there's the cost differential. As you said, there's absolutely nothing to guarentee I get a TAship. Without that, it'd be about a $40K difference. Seems crazy when you consider Fletcher just ranked better than SIPA.

 

One benefit I forgot to mention at SIPA is that a friend of mine can get me an internship at the USUN that would allow me to keep my TS clearance (which will be a HUGE benefit when seeking employment after school). It also gets me a foot in the door at State and the UN and it pays $12000 for the academic year for only 20 hours/week. That would do a lot to lower costs and has tangible career benefits.

 

I'm going to an alumni happy hour in DC tomorrow night and I'll visit the campus this weekend. Hopefully that will help some and I can find some friendly students to talk to. (it's gonna be so awkward walking up to random people and asking them to answer my random questions...)

[DaniCM]

NYC is amazing (it's been my home for the past 16 years!) but it is a tough place to live and is super expensive, even in Morningside Heights.

 

Does the upper west side still have that NYC, big apple feel? I spend most my time when I visit NYC in the lowe east side. If NYC is part of the big draw for me, I don't want to end up in a part of the city that doesn't feel like the NYC I want to be in. Especially if my theory of a Columbia bubble is true and students don't venture too far south.

 

Thanks! It's great to have insight from a New Yorker!

[hesadork]

SIPA is on 118/Amsterdam, which is Morningside Heights, not Harlem.  Most Columbia grad students who want to walk to class live in MH, which is roughly West 110th St to West 125th St.  Given the very large number of schools in the neighborhood (Columbia, Barnard, Teachers College, Bank Street, Union Theological, Jewish Theological, Manhattan School of Music) there is definitely a young/college town kind of feel.  The UWS (West 59th St to West 110th St) is a very desirable neighborhood in Manhattan, but skews older and is a mecca for families (read: little kids).  It's much more expensive than MH, and definitely lower key.

 

I'd say the dominant feeling in MH is university while the dominant feel in the UWS is residential.  While MH comes closer, neither neighborhood has the vibrancy or the nightlife of the Village or the LES.

[JFactor]

I empathize with your situation Dani. That's a tough one. I'm sure you'll have a better idea of what you're going to do after visiting NYC/Columbia and talking to some people. Everything has pretty much been said already: SIPA will be a little bit more expensive than Fletcher (and more stressful in terms of financing because the second year funding is a little uncertain), although the internship at the USUN negates that somewhat. And the internship seems like an awesome and interesting opportunity, I would be all over that myself if I was American!

 

I'm sure there will be a little bit of a difference between the atmosphere at Fletcher and SIPA, but I also think people (myself included) often have a tendency to draw general conclusions based on individual random things. Sure, there are differences in location and that will impact how people will interact (SAIS Bologna: a European bubble, SIPA: big city and big university creates more of a "detached" atmosphere that people often bring up here, Fletcher: an American and more academic bubble, less people super concentrated on networking etc.). However, I also think that at the end of the day, all of the top MA IR programs will be quite similar in terms of the student body and the overall atmosphere. As you've noticed here on the forum as well, the same people are considering the same top programs and while obviously the sample size that the forum represents is very small, I have a hard time believing that all of us are divided into different schools based on our personalities. It's the money and the academic fit that almost always comes first with people; location is obviously important, but I don't think it's the fundamental factor that leads to more "fun" people going to one school etc.

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is this: grad school is what you make of it and I'm pretty confident people can find friends who they share a connection with regardless of the program that they choose. But this doesn't mean that the emotional component doesn't play a role at all. On the contrary, I think it reveals something quite big about what you are subconsciously thinking and what you value. So flyingjellyfish is right: after you visit SIPA and you compare the experiences, really pay attention to your inner dialogue. When you think of going to Fletcher, are you trying to force yourself to go and is there a small voice saying no? How do you feel about the choices? I personally believe it's hugely important that you go with the university that you feel the most comfortable choosing; we are all smart people here and we all take into account the financial factors, the career prospects etc. so I think these are all integrated into your feelings already. So at the end of the day, you have to go with the one that you feel the most excited about, because then you won't have regrets. Obviously it has to be an informed decision, but I'm sure you know what I mean. The decision you have is very close and either way you go, I don't think it's going to be a disaster. So after evaluating all the pros and cons, if it's still very close (and it most likely will be), just go with your instincts. You can use the old trick of throwing the coin in the air etc. Some might say that's no way of making a decision, but after rational analysis, trusting your instincts and the subconscious is a very valid (and "rational") strategy.

 

Ok, I'm rambling haha. Anyway, that's the best advice I can give at this point. And congrats about the SIPA offer; it's causing you more headache now, but it's an awesome problem to have.

[soaps]

Hi all! First, thank you so much for your genuine advice and empathy! Like most of you, I've spent a lot of time on these boards and have become familiar with a few posters impaticular, Jellyfish, Soaps, Gatsby...and it's definitely great to have had people to share this experience with! I feel like we're all friends! haha.

That definitely doesn't bode well for SIPA, but I'm not surprised. Even at the Fletcher open house, the admissions staff there echoed similar sentiments. I did watch the open house videos, and the alumni panel in particular assuaged some of these fears, as a number of students spoke about personal relationships they had built with professors. But, I will say, compared to Fletcher, they made these relationships seem out of the norm - or at least that they had to put a lot of effort into making them happen. Also, I was surprised watching all the videos and reading some of their student-run newspaper how much partying was emphasized. I guess that was one thing I felt that was lacking at Fletcher, but I SIPA kind of went too far in the opposite direction. I want to have fun, but education is foremost. I was also worried about a possiible bubble effect around the SIPA campus, and the north west side of NYC, which doesn't seem to be as lively or offer the NYC living as the lower east side. And I agree with you that the brand and prestige of the professors was really pushed, with much less emphasis on the individual programs.

I was definitely more excited about the city and the brand. I know that sounds shallow. I guess coming from a small town in AZ and being lower-middle class, the idea of attending an Ivy League was something I never thought was possible...it feels like a Cinderella story. But after that intial, shallow excitement, I was stressed about having to weigh my options, especially since I didn't attend the open house.

You're so right. And the pragmatic side of me is screaming that. I guess I'm just really bothered that, unlike Gatsby, I didn't have that instantaneous feeling of "this is the right place for me" at Fletcher, and actually left the open house worrying about how happy I'd be outside of the academics. I think had I had that feeling, I wouldn't be seriously considering Columbia now. Columbia seems to perfectly make up what Fletcher lacked - more socially extroverted students and a fun city that I have always wanted to live in. But I don't think that those benefits make up for the impersonal nature of the program. Close relationships and access to professors is very important to me. Especially because part of me thinks I didn't give Boston or Fletcher admits a fair shake. Everyone is nervous during open house. They're trying to make the best academic and professional impression they can. Plus, I didn't get to explore Boston or Davis Square and all my friends who have spent time there rave about it. And, of course, there's the cost differential. As you said, there's absolutely nothing to guarentee I get a TAship. Without that, it'd be about a $40K difference. Seems crazy when you consider Fletcher just ranked better than SIPA.

One benefit I forgot to mention at SIPA is that a friend of mine can get me an internship at the USUN that would allow me to keep my TS clearance (which will be a HUGE benefit when seeking employment after school). It also gets me a foot in the door at State and the UN and it pays $12000 for the academic year for only 20 hours/week. That would do a lot to lower costs and has tangible career benefits.

I'm going to an alumni happy hour in DC tomorrow night and I'll visit the campus this weekend. Hopefully that will help some and I can find some friendly students to talk to. (it's gonna be so awkward walking up to random people and asking them to answer my random questions...)

 

First, I'll just say we all know the rankings (even FP's) are silly and have a stupidly low survey response rate, not to mention high variability year-to-year.

 

But more importantly: I think once you talk to SIPA alumni and students, you may get a different impression of student-professor relationships. Especially if you're in a smaller concentration, once you start taking your concentration/specialization classes, the class sizes are much more reasonable. The only complaints I heard were from the EPD concentration, which did seem large and impersonal. I attended the human rights and conflict resolution sessions, though, and I got the impression of a small, closely knit community. The HR director talked to me for a while afterward about customizing a program based on my interests, and he seemed personally interested in having me in the program and told me to e-mail him any questions. That said, admissions/financial aid seems understaffed and constantly overwhelmed, and the school may both benefit and suffer from the fame of some of its faculty. But you don't hear Gtown students complaining that Madeleine Albright doesn't hold regular office hours, nor should anyone expect Stiglitz to be. Anyway, it means nothing coming from one person, so hopefully you'll be able to develop your own impression after meeting with professors.

 

At the admitted students day, I didn't quite get the impression of a "partying" culture (although there was that aspect) so much as a very social one. SIPA seems surprisingly socially integrated, especially compared to other schools at Columbia. There is the risk of the Columbia bubble, but midtown is 15-20 mins away, and the LES is no more-or-less convenient than anywhere else on the west side. I've had no trouble going out in the rest of Manhattan, as physical proximity matters less here than connectedness. It's easier/cheaper to live near a subway line up here, and the UWS has two subway lines that may even give it easier access to parts of downtown than some areas that are better located but more disconnected. Where you hang out and go out is up to your personal preference. I hang out on the UWS and go out downtown. The only risk is the cost of a cab from the LES to Morningside Heights at 4 in the morning. But, I was also surprised by how many students emphasized the academic rigors over the social aspects, which seems in-line with the Columbia reputation.

 

The Upper West Side itself is (in my opinion) the most beautiful area of Manhattan and has so much history. The scale is still big, even farther up north, and Morningside Heights in particular is gorgeous with access to three parks and many historic architecture/buildings. I can't tell you the number of times I've walked along Riverside Park down to 59th and marveled at the views. That matters to me personally since I value a beautiful, serene space to live in. You'd also be living in an area that has produced so many famous writers/artists/musicians, and I think the upper Upper West Side is about to experience another reinvention with many people being outpriced of W'burg and other areas and coming back to north Manhattan. Columbia is renowned for its intellectual culture and it's apparent everywhere.

 

Staying in NYC is the biggest factor for me. The things I value in life aren't purely (or merely) academic, and many people at SIPA seemed to have the same attitude. I may be in the minority here, but I just see grad. school as another stepping stone in life, and so the peripheral, soft factors of a school matter a lot more to me. That's why complaints about administration/career services seem so insignificant to me since they seem in-line with how things function in NYC in general, and everyone endures it willingly. And in any case, nothing about a school's curriculum is going to impart more truth or wisdom than any other, but the environment you live in and people you meet there might. 

 

I'd echo what others are saying: visit the school and trust your instincts. But for what it's worth, I think your instinct about the unique type of person attracted to SIPA/NYC is right. It'll be the type of person who wants access to the amazing wealth of cultural/intellectual resources of a big city and a big university, and for whom the malfunctions of a big system are an everyday part of life. My impression of what some others want from other schools is a small, controlled environment, which may be what Medford is and which certainly isn't what SIPA offers. I've consistently been impressed by SIPA students the same as I'm usually impressed by anyone in NYC, and the vast majority I've talked to love being there, despite the same common complaints about the administration. Just walking into the international affairs building will show you how engaged and passionate SIPA students are, but walking into the admissions office might give you a different impression. But complaints are university-wide and are almost a part of Columbia culture, which makes effusive optimism about the school strangely countercultural. That's probably why SIPA's reputation has remained the same over the years.

 

Anyway, best of luck deciding!

Edited April 24, 2013 by soaps

[supbla20]

I think you were awarded the money I gave up at SIPA . They tried to induce me with big scholarships and access to special programs, but in the end I chose Fletcher. It is a much more flexible program, overall higher quality (in my opinion), a more engaged alumni network and a tighter community.

 

The only area where SIPA conculsively beats Fletcher, in my personal opinion is the name. I admit that this is a big one - and thinking about that doesn't make you a shallow person. My parents and some friends seem disappointed that I chose Fletcher over SIPA, mostly because they wanted me to go to an Ivy League institution. But if you look at things objectively, outcomes at Fletcher are just as good, if not better, than at SIPA. I for one know that I thrive on a more personalized environment, thus the Fletcher choice over SIPA.

 

I admit that I will question a bit whether I should have gone to the Ivy League - but I feel that I will have a better time, less pressure and a similar outcome at Fletcher (for one thing there is no mandatory 3.4 in order to maintain a scholarship). IF, however, you think your outcome for some reason will be better at SIPA or you just feel better there, then you should go there.

 

I am a firm believer that you should go where you feel most comfortable unless there is a question of outcomes. In that case, I don't care how much I would torture myself over the next two years - I would go where I know the ultimate career result will be the most beneficial for me. That is really the whole point of this exercise anyway, isn't it?

[soaps]

Found this post by a current SIPA student in the Google group. It reflects what I've heard from both friends at SIPA and other current students I've interacted with. Say what you will about the administration, but large classes/inaccessible professors is a stereotype that just doesn't hold water. Thought it was relevant (bolding is her own):

 

First off, SIPA Professors are incredibly accessible. Like, amazingly so. In addition to an outstanding ivy league academic faculty, one difference between our Professors and some more remotely located schools is that a lot of our Profs are practitioners as well as lecturers. For example I have taken classes from the preeminent pollster in United States politics, a gender mainstreaming expert at UN Women, a human rights expert for the OECD and UNESCO, an Executive and Ernst and Young, and the Washington Post senior political reporter and those are just off the top of my head. (Keep in mind I focus on gender and domestic elections so you will have the opportunity to interact with the equivalent experts in your field.) Having practitioner professors is a huge advantage both in terms of the networking opportunities and because they can better prepare you for a career in the real world. 

 

That said, all SIPA Professors keep office hours and in my experience are extremely responsive over email even when they are traveling. Obviously this varies from Professor to Professor but in my experience the faculty here is not only interested with helping you develop academically through coursework but also in engaging with students on current events, or helping us develop outside projects. For example I am working with one Professor to get my final paper from her class last year published in an academic journal. Honestly, I have been blown away with the availability and interest level of my Professors. Everyone I have met seems genuinely interested in developing their students as their future colleagues. I can only imagine that either I am incredibly lucky or that "inaccessibility" is the kind of rumor that other schools spread because they can't compete for faculty with the draw of an ivy league institution in New York.
 

Second, most class sizes are small. The one glaring exception is that Politics and Policy Making (for MPA's) and Conceptual Foundations (for MIA's) are plenary sessions for the degree so all first year MPA students take POP and all first year MIA's take CF. Those also break down into weekly recitations of about 15 students. Other than that core courses tend to have about 20-30 students per section. For example, even though most students take micro econ at the same time, there are several sections for both the 4000 and 6000 level. (Some Professors allow you to come to any section that meets that week which is good news if you, like me, are a perpetual late sleeper). All core courses also have recitations, Professors office hours and TA office hours. My electives (which are MOST of my courses) have had about 8-15 students per class. Having a bigger school does not mean larger class size it simply means that a wider variety of electives are offered, which to me is a HUGE ADVANTAGE. Again, giant class size seems to me like a misconception that exists at smaller schools.

Edited April 25, 2013 by soaps

[DaniCM]

Staying in NYC is the biggest factor for me. The things I value in life aren't purely (or merely) academic, and many people at SIPA seemed to have the same attitude.

 

I think that's a great point. Education is obviously very important to me...that's why I'm going to grad school. (well, education and the job propspects it will provide me thereafter!) But at all these top tier schools, the caliber of the education is likely very similar, with a few strengths at each particular institution. The social and cultural aspect is extremely important to me, too. And I think Columbia and NYC definitely have an edge of Fletcher and Medford in that respect, even if just because of the cities.

 

And, Soaps, thank for posting that. I went to a SIPA happy hour last night in DC and the alumni there echoed the same sentiment. It seems that SIPA offers many of the same benefits/perks that other institutions do, but they may not be as readibly accesible or as "in your face" as they are at, say, Fletcher. I was told that you can definitely make those connections with your professors happen at SIPA, but you have to be proactive. Having gone to Georgetown for undergrad, thereby having experienced a similar institutional situation, I feel very comfortable in that environment, which is probably why I've always been so attracted to NYC.

 

I think I'll know a lot more after I visit the campus this weekend. I'm also going to make a list of all the courses I would like to take at each school and the professors who teach them to do a bit of comparrison. I'll definitely check back in early next week, as I'm sure you're all dying to know what I decide.

[DaniCM]

Oh, one thing I forgot to add that a SIPA alumni pointed out last night, should I ever want to make a career shift or move into the private sector, having Columbia on my resume will make that a lot easier than Fletcher, which, while very well regarded in IR, is less known outside the field.

 

I actually thought that was a really good point, bc it's one way Columbia offers a life-long return on investment in a wide-range of career fields

[are we there yet?]

Oh, one thing I forgot to add that a SIPA alumni pointed out last night, should I ever want to make a career shift or move into the private sector, having Columbia on my resume will make that a lot easier than Fletcher, which, while very well regarded in IR, is less known outside the field.

 

What? Are we still taking policy/IR in a career shift?

 

I dont see how having a degree from Fletcher would make it more difficult to transition.

 

[DaniCM]

What? Are we still taking policy/IR in a career shift?

 

I dont see how having a degree from Fletcher would make it more difficult to transition.

 

 

I'm not all sure I would want to do a career shift, but it does happen to people later down the road. I guess the context I was most thinking of it for me was if I decided to do consulting rather than working directly for an NGO or for the US gov. In this context I imagine myself doing contracting work for US gov, but you get paid a lot more as a contractor than you do working directly under the agency for which you could be contracting. Fletcher's possible/perceived disadvantage in this is that while their brand is top notch and well known in the IR world, it is far less known outside that world than Columbia is...simply bc it's Columbia. Same goes if I decided I wanted to work in foreign country.

Edited April 25, 2013 by DaniCM

[hesadork]

DaniCM, just be careful to avoid the rabbit hole of trying to make this decision based on hypotheticals.  Gaming out the choice with what ifs will be paralyzing. 

 

Personally I think it would be a mistake to let this come down to institutional name prestige and where you think you'd have more fun socially/culturally.  That just feels like a recipe for regret down the road.  If you conclude that SIPA is the better program and you can make the $$ work, go there.  But choose it for the right reasons.  Otherwise, take the better $$ offer from Fletcher and make yourself the life of the party in Medford

 

Best of luck with your visit and congratulations again on these amazing options! 

Edited April 25, 2013 by ADLNYC

[trinidader]

As someone in DC who also feels the draw of bigger cities now and then, I'd just reiterate that despite being in Medford, (or rather, Somerville) you're right next to Cambridge, which has many of the area's cultural, gastronomic, musical, etc. attractions, not to mention thousands of other young people with all sorts of passions and interests.

 

I dunno, I'm looking forward to it.

[cunninlynguist]

DaniCM, just be careful to avoid the rabbit hole of trying to make this decision based on hypotheticals.  Gaming out the choice with what ifs will be paralyzing. 

 

Personally I think it would be a mistake to let this come down to institutional name prestige and where you think you'd have more fun socially/culturally.  That just feels like a recipe for regret down the road.  If you conclude that SIPA is the better program and you can make the $$ work, go there.  But choose it for the right reasons.  Otherwise, take the better offer $$ from Fletcher and make yourself the life of the party in Medford

 

Best of luck with your visit and congratulations again on these amazing options! 

 

Well said.

 

Can we get a breakdown of the estimated loan debt for each program?

 

Ultimately, Fletcher and SIPA are peer schools. Tufts and Medford -- and Boston in general -- won't leave you lacking in terms of the "soft" factors. IMO, a professional degree is an investment and every major component of your decision-making process should be based on curriculum, skills, network, and cost. "Softer" factors come into play for all us to varying degrees, but are best considered secondarily (e.g. location and institutional prestige).

[DaniCM]

_{I realize the hard factors are very important, and certainly agree the soft factors should be a secondary consideration.}

 

_{That said, here are the hard factors I'm considering:}

• _{SIPA will cost me between 55,000-80,000. The average SIPA grad has 70-80K in loan debt}
• _{Fletcher will cost me between 63,000-80,000 (more likely to be on the cheaper end of the spectrum and more likely to be cheaper than SIPA, as there are less variables factoring into the range  for Fletcher than for SIPA)}
• _{SIPA offers far more classes in my specific areas of interest (state building in developing countries and third world/Latin American studies)}
• _{SIPA offers the FLAS, and Fletcher does not}
• _{Fletcher will allow me to take 2 introductory courses on Portuguese for credit, SIPA will not (althoug I can audit them)}
• _{Fletcher has a more flexible curriculum}
• _{SIPA has more institutes and centers within my area of interest}
• _{SIPA has more internship opportunities and their students work more hours a week than Fletcher students (Fletcher students work between 10-12 hours a week and SIPA students work between 10-20 hours/week)}
• _{SIPA's administration and career services are notoriously bad.}
• _{Fletcher's admin blew me away, although not so much their career services during admit day}

_{Some hypotheticals I believe are realistic enough to strongly consider:}

• _{I will have a better shot at getting an internship or job in NYC that allows me to maintain my TS clearance (these clearances cost employers around 20K to get for an employee, and so having one already makes you extremely marketable. Having one already will likewise make me more competitive for paid internships in the city)}
• Should I decide to work as a government contractor, say with Booze or Deloitte, I believe I will have a better shot with Columbia on my resume than Tufts

Soft factors:

• Fletcher has a tighter knit community with easier access to professors (I'm not sure if I should consider this a soft or hard factor...I think this is largely agreed to be true, but SIPA students do contend they have this, too)
• I've always wanted to live in NYC
• Columbia is Ivy League
• I don't like Medford, and while Boston is nearby I got the strong sense there is a bubble around Fletcher that doesn't extend far past some of the nearby squares (Davis, Porter, Harvard), although those squares are probably a lot more fun and culturally stimulating than I give them credit for

Anyway, I honestly believe I could be happy at either school. My debt will be relatively the same, but will likely be higher at SIPA. And I think the education is great at both schools.

 

The marginal cost differential and the more extensive class list at SIPA, in conjunction with everything NYC has to offer, does sway me that way. Fletcher's tight knit community and access to professors is their biggest draw for me, but I really wish their international security studies program had more courses on post-conflict management and statebuilding. It seems very war and force heavy, even as described by the student panel during admit day.

Edited April 26, 2013 by DaniCM

[DaniCM]

also...no idea what is going on with my font up there. Sorry for the little letters

[hesadork]

Very thoughtful and fair analysis on the merits.  But I don't understand the debt calculations at all, particularly how SIPA is coming out to be cheaper.  Fletcher is giving you $19k for 2 years; SIPA is giving you $15k for only one, and not all 2nd year students at SIPA get a TA-ship.  Not to mention that Manhattan is a more expensive place to live than suburban Boston...

[DaniCM]

Very thoughtful and fair analysis on the merits.  But I don't understand the debt calculations at all, particularly how SIPA is coming out to be cheaper.  Fletcher is giving you $19k for 2 years; SIPA is giving you $15k for only one, and not all 2nd year students at SIPA get a TA-ship.  Not to mention that Manhattan is a more expensive place to live than suburban Boston...

 

Fair. I did take as fact that I will be granted at least the 22K that 70% of second year students receive. I was told by the office of financial aid that, as they only give 1st year funding to less than 10% of students, it was almost a certainty I would receive at least the 22K, and likely more. And besides the TAship, they also offer 5K meritt based scholarships each semester. Additionally, at Fletcher I planned to keep my car, whereas I would sell it if I went to NYC. Lastly, I would live in Harlem were I to attend SIPA, and the rent is pretty much the same as in Davis Square, although overall cost of living in NYC is more. The money part is still a rough estimate, and, as I said, there are a lot more variables at play in the number range I provided for SIPA.

 

Also, with my total debt from undergrad and grad school ensuring that I'll be close to the 100K mark for overall debt no matter which school I attend, my income based repayments will be exactly the same when I finish school.

[hesadork]

SIPA's estimate of living expenses = $20,000; Fletcher's estimate = $17,000.  Morningside Heights is only slightly cheaper than the rest of Manhattan, and the parts of Harlem that abut MH know they've got a captive audience in CU students and price rentals accordingly.

 

Every person headed to SIPA on and off this board is confident they're going to get 2nd year funding.  And yet, each year more than 100 2nd year students don't get anything.  That's not an insignificant number of people, all of whom were distinguished enough to gain admission in the first place.

 

All of that said, I think your mind is already made up   and that's not a bad thing...