Georgetown MPP or NYU Wagner MPA

[tribesdude]

Hello everyone, Just need some help/advice. So today I got off the wait list for GPPI. And as grateful as I am for that, it has made by decision process a bit more complicated. Out of all the universities that I had been accepted to, I had narrowed down my choice to Wagner and USC (well tbh mostly Wagner), but now getting of the GPPI wait list I am not entirely sure what to do. I am an International student (currently live in Canada but I am not Canadian), and my hope is to sometime in the future work for UN organizations or development organizations, either within NA or elsewhere. I would also like to initially work for a private organizations doing consulting work for a few years, prior to moving to a UN or Development type of company. My ideal focus is international and economic development, focusing on former USSR countries and/or SE Asia.

 

Both schools are very good, and both locations have their pro's and con's. I would like to be in NY simply for the large number of companies there are for which I could work for, plus the NY night-life, as immature as this may sound, does also appeal to me. However, the lack of a campus and student community (that I have perceived from my research) is a bit of a negative, and NY would be a huge change for me. On the other hand DC has a lot of potential connections for me too, the Georgetown campus is beautiful, and it seems to have a good community there. The class size's at GPPI also seem to be smaller than at Wagner (400 people in Wagner's entering class if I am not mistaken).

 

Anyway, could someone please give me some advice and maybe some more pro's and con's. Really unsure of what to do now.

 

Thank you! 

 

 

[MPPgal]

Is NYU giving you money? If not take GPPI's offer

[are we there yet?]

also dont underestimate the nightlife in DC on U Street

[tribesdude]

None of them are. Although I did not even expect to get funding given that I am still an undergraduate student. However, the cost of attendance does not matter that much to me (lets assume at all) so to be frank all I care about is the quality of the education, job prospects afterwards (like I said UN or developmental organizations, hopefully if I can get it right away but more likely 3-5 years down the line, so initially private work such as consulting or finance, I am a finance major at my undergrad), the social life, being someone who is 21 that is actually quite important for me too, and lastly the connections I will make while there. 

[hesadork]

Georgetown is the superior program in this field, and you can have plenty of fun in DC.

[Tsetso_BG]

I visited both of the schools. Georgetown is definitely better than Wagner. And to me personally, DC is much nicer than NY.

[tribesdude]

So what are the strengths of the Georgetown program over NYU's? I know GPPI is known better for the public policy field than NYU, but what are the tangible and intangible benefits?

[Tsetso_BG]

Georgetown is best known for its quantitative focus. I visited one of their best professors' classes on Public Finance and if you are not good in econ or math, you will have troubles there. They even start with Intermediate Macro the first semester. In contrast, the admissions officers at Wagner told me there are no econ/math requirements, you can take a few intro courses there and that's it. I would prefer a program which is more academically rigorous. Wagner, however, focuses on management. The two programs are a little bit different so it depends on what you want to get from them. 

[lemony]

I would actually beg to differ on NYU Wagner not having a student community, of sorts. While the lack of true "campus" and such may ring true for the larger NYU community/undergrad life, NYU Wagner struck me as very cohesive and interested in the wellbeing of their students. NYU Wagner students I spoke to seemed to be very close with their fellow classmates, and often go to happy hours and networking events with students at Wagner and other NYU schools such as Stern and GSAS. As for the quant material, it seems up to the student to decide how much quant they want to take--Wagner does have a Finance Specialization that seems just as quant heavy as any standard Finance/Management specialization would/should be, but if you were to veer away from the Finance/Management courses I can see how the curriculum would end up less quant-focused. YMMV.

[tribesdude]

Yeah sorry, I was referring to NYU as a whole. I have heard the same thing that you said from other's about Wagner, meaning that it is a pretty close knit community, I was looking at course schedules and some of NYU's (many) are like 3 hour courses offered once a week (rather than the 2-3 times I am used to/would prefer). Not too sure how I feel about that, especially since GPPI seems to have a more frequent course thing (where course are given 2-3 times a week, rather than just once). 

[Christalyn]

One year later, and I have the same question!  Tribesdude, which decision did you make and are you happy with it?

 

I'm debating between McCourt and Wagner.  I'm also interested in international development, possibly working for the UN.  But also I'm interested in domestic social policy.  I haven't received a financial package from Wagner yet, but I did get a scholarship to Georgetown for 10k a year.

 

Thoughts?

[tribesdude]

I decided to go with Georgetown, and I am very happy with my decision. I will just go through some of the pro's and con's (every program will have its con's) and then try and address your specific concerns. 

 

Pros:

The class sizes are very small, other than one class where I had 40 people in it, the other classes were 20 people or less. This means that one has a lot of access to their professor and can more easily get to know them. The professors are also very accessible, they of course have office hours, but if you cant make them you can also schedule a different time, and they are very accomodating with that. I had one professor last term who would even come to campus on a weekend if we had a paper due to help students out. In terms of the class profile overall, we have approximately 130 students who enter the MPP program, and around 17-19 people who enter the MIDP program. (all the statistics, including average age, years of work experience, GRE, GPA are on the website if you want to check it out.) In terms of how MSPP compares to Wagner, the class of 2009 at Wagner ( this is the only data I could find), Wagner had 800-900 people in the program across the two years. This could (although you have to ask an NYU Wagner student) impact the class sizes by making them larger. 

 

It is more quant focused than NYU. We have to take Intermediate Micro, Public Finance, and three Quantitative Methods classes. For me this is a pro since the Quant focus gives one a more tangible skill. We use software called STATA to run analysis. So we have something every week called STATA recitation where a TA (2nd year student) teaches us the basic (and later on) a bit more advanced functions of the program. 

 

Being in DC, you can intern in the fall and spring while going to school. They are fairly easy to get as well since the competition for those spots is much lower in the Fall/Spring than in the Summer (in the summer you would be competing against everyone). So you can get experience, potentially make money (although a lot of internships in DC are unpaid), and make connections. However if you are an Int'l student, you will not be allowed to work (other than for a select few organizations, such as IMF, WB, etc) in your first two terms (US law). 

 

As for electives, a good amount of choices. You can also easily take electives in other departments (I personally know its easy to take MSFS and MBA electives, you will get in as long as there is space left)

 

I am sure this would be the case at Wagner as well, but a very diverse group of smart and interesting classmates. Very sociable as well. 

 

Cons:

The Quant focus. My issue is that MSPP admits people who have next to no background either in Stats or Econ. I have no issue with this, since I understand different people focused on different things in their life. However, I feel the best thing for them, would have been a separate class/section where everyone with a weaker background is there, so that they can be more effectively helped. What Georgetown does now is it lumps everyone together, and the issue with that (at least imo) is that people who dont have a background in these topics dont benefit as much, and the people who do have a background also dont benefit as much, since professors have to find a middle ground (in terms of teaching) between the two. But not that big of a con since this probably happens in other programs as well, but just a heads up. 

 

Could be a Con for you (its not for me), but the MSPP building (old north) is too small.I love the building, all of the students get together there, eat/study, all the professors office's are there. However, we do not have any classes there since well frankly the building is not big enough for that. So all the classes are held either in Healey, McGuire, Walsh and etc. 

 

Lastly (and this applies to Georgetown rather than the program itself), pre-registration. Potentially the dumbest most infuriating form of registering for classes. So you first selective a primary schedule (you can also rank classes within each schedule) and an alternate schedule, and then you register them by some date (the date is the same for everyone). Then its pretty much a lottery, the system goes through your choices, looks at how you ranked classes, and if there is space left, gives you the class. 

 

 

At MSPP you can focus both on domestic and international policy. We have an MIDP program that is primary focused on international development, while the MPP you have more leeway. So you can cater the MPP to focus in IDEV by catering the electives towards that end. For example, for the required course policy process management we have two choices, a domestic version, or an international version. Since this is a US institution, there is a heavy focus on domestic policy as well. Domestic policy is not my area so cant help you much there, but I do know we have a strong focus there as well. 

 

 

Anyway, hope this kind of helped. I apologize for the long reply but lol sadly I cant help it. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask! 

Edited March 15, 2014 by tribesdude

[martinet25]

@tribesdude: Thanks for the information. I am torn between attending MA IDEV SAIS (NO $$) and MPP MSPP ($$). Though I have posted this question in this forum before, I have never found a response from a current student at MSPP. Given both are in DC (WB, IFC), I doubt there will be any difference in networking opportunities available  (I want to work in international development after graduation). Given my degree will be 15K lighter at MSPP,will it be wise to pay the full price of SAIS degree. Basically is there a sea of difference between the two so as to choose one over the another given MSPP is offering funding opportunity.  Could you please shed some light on deciding between SAIS and MSPP?  

 

Thanks in advance

[tribesdude]

@martinet25:

 

I do not know that much about the program at SAIS, so please take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I would assume that the two schools are very comparable both in terms of the quality of the professors, the small class sizes, and the networking opportunities provided. Given that both SAIS and MSPP are in DC, you will, theoretically, have a similar opportunity to network with WB/IFC employees, as well as others. What you should, however, take into account though is, at least from what I understand SAIS is the only (or one of the only) JHU departments that are located in DC, the rest being in Baltimore. While MSPP is located in the Georgetown campus. What this could mean for you, is that you get to go to networking sessions and employer information sessions not only organized by MSPP, but also ones organized by MSFS, McDonough (MBA), and others (as well as the stuff organized for the undergrads). This in theory should give you a larger networking opportunity than at SAIS. A lot of our networking stuff is organized in tandem with the career office at SFS and MSPP. 

 

In terms of the money, really it depends on your ability to pay, and how much that $15k means to you (is it $15k over 2 years, or $15k extra a year?). In my book, both are excellent programs and you can't go wrong with either one. If you go the SAIS route, you will have a more structured IDEV program, since well thats what you are in for. On the other hand at MSPP you will get to choose what course you want to take (electives) that are related to IDEV. So this could provide a bit more flexibility. It is completely up to you what you prefer (structure vs flexibility). Keep in mind that in your first year at MSPP you realistically can take 2 electives. One per term, since the other three courses are required courses. However some people defer one of their required courses to 2nd year in order to take an extra elective (but I would not do this, but thats just me). Generally the course that gets deferred is public policy process. You can also take classes SFS, MBA and other faculties as well so that makes it quite flexible as well. In terms of the money, if its $15k over 2 years, imo that is not a large amount and you should not make your decision based on money in that case. However if its $15k per year than that changes things a bit. 

 

What I would recommend is that you look at the employment reports, see how the two schools (or in SAIS's case the specific program) places the graduates at top jobs. Also look at the "intangibles", such as location (I know both are in DC, but look at where in DC), campus, and etc. Also, think about which one may have a better name recognition in India (so JHU vs GU), important in case you want to go back. Like I stated I think both are very good choices, you cant go wrong with either one. Look through the courses offered at both, maybe contact some students at both. 

 

MSPP Employment Report: http://mspp.georgetown.edu/career/

SAIS Employment: http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

Wish I could be more of help on the SAIS end of things, but hope this helped you a bit!

[martinet25]

@tribesdude: Thanks a ton. The aid amount is 15K per year.