Teach for America?

[Talya0123]

I'm an undecided undergraduate currently debating between a traditional education degree and TFA/New Teachers Project/other alternate certification programs. I wanted to know if students with an education major can be accepted into TFA. While I was told that yes, certified teachers can apply to TFA, are they actually accepted? I thought the whole point of TFA was to certify non-teachers. If I were to major in education, would I sabotage my chances? I ask because in my area, the job market for traditionally-certified teachers is EXTREMELY competitive, and it is actually easier to get into TFA than it is to get a teaching job as an education major. 

Additionally, I was wondering if you have to major in the area that you are teaching--for instance, if I wanted to teach secondary English through TFA, do I need to be an English major? 

Finally, if anyone is in/already completed TFA, how intensive are the post-bacc certification classes?

[digits2006]

If you already know you want to teach, go ahead and go the traditional teaching route and make that your career choice.

[JBums1028]

Completely agree with digits2006. TFA would only be two years out of your entire teaching career. If teaching is your long term goal, then I think it's probably best to pursue the traditional education route through your college. This will probably sound cheesy, but I think if you are meant to be a part of TFA and your a good fit for their program, then it will work out regardless of your major.

 

Also if you do a traditional education program, you have both the option to do TFA or try to find a traditional teaching job available to you upon graduation. Even though it's a tough market for teachers in a lot of states, it's better to have both those options instead of only one in my opinion.

Edited August 22, 2013 by JBums1028

[rising_star]

If you get a traditional education degree, you should be able to get a job in any of the areas where TFA or TNTP are located since these areas are typically desperate for teachers.

[ctcpx084]

Your preparation in many "traditional" programs will probably be better as well. Although TFA participants have shown well in some studies, particularly with increasing students' math scores, their training is typically rushed; as mentioned above, they are headed into schools that are desperate for teachers, many times because they are difficult schools. A traditional program, with structured observations and student teaching with a responsible cooperating teacher, may be better if this is the career for you.

 

I just started working in a university that trains some teachers using the "Professional Development School" model of teacher training. Co-teaching is a key component of our interpretation of this model, and this means student teachers/"interns" go right into the classroom as active participants, rather than wallflowers who just observe for a period of time before being thrown to the fire. If I had the opportunity to do my teacher training over again, I would absolutely look for something like this, rather than "alternative" programs that pump teachers out whose true preparation for the rigors of teaching is in question to say the least.

[Fleet23]

Of the 15 or so TFA CMs in my school, I know of none who are teaching their area of expertise.  I know a Chemistry major teaching math, a Biology major teaching math, a history major teaching Biology, a history major teaching ELL, a business law major teaching math, etc.  You'll be placed where the need is greatest.  If you go the traditional route, not only will you be better prepared, but you'll have a lot more control over your career.

[Defenestration a la Mode]

My girlfriend just 'graduated' from TFA and majored in Education at a 4 year college before that. Overall she liked it, but it definitely had its pros and cons.

 

As far as getting accepted, they only have around 5% of their group every year as education majors, so you'll definitely be in the minority, but they do accept them. You don't need to major in what you'll be teaching, but they will try to use your strengths IF they can. My girlfriend studied elementary ed, and they almost placed her in middle school, so it depends on what they need, but it could definitely give you a leg up. The application process is more about figuring out who will make it through the two years than what you studied in college, because it's a hard two years. If you have a chance to talk to someone admitted, they should be able to give you good tips for the application process. They accept a lot of Pol. Sci. majors actually, because they have two stated goals, one being to close the achievement gap, and the other is to affect political policy - lots of TFA grads go into politics, so it's a nice alumni group to be a part of.

 

I think majoring in education was actually a bonus for my girlfriend once she was in the program, because as someone said, their training is pretty rushed, so it was nice that she knew what they were talking about. The schools you work in are pretty bad, so it's definitely an eye-opener. The other staff is often a little guarded toward you, because some of them are likely losing their jobs as the school is reinventing itself. If you get a good placement or not is pretty up in the air.

 

As for post-bac. certification classes. So they make sure you have your teaching certificate, but not necessarily a degree. Then you get an Americorps grant for $5000 or so per year to pursue your education, as well as access to a plethora of scholarships/discounts. Additionally I think the training counts as a few credits towards a masters. You take classes the summer before you start, and it's a pretty tough summer as far as time and effort invested, plus you're in the worst schools in the US. Then you have a person who helps/supports you during the school year.

 

TFA has a pretty progessive mentality, and at her first school after TFA, she feels prepared and like she already knows about a lot of new stuff the administration is implementing. If you really want to teach long-term, I'd recommend the education major, as I think that helped her actually be prepared for teaching. I think TFA helped her to be a better teacher as well, but I don't think I'd say they cover the traditional/basic teaching stuff as much. In an undergrad education program you'll have the chance to student teach, which makes a big difference. TFA is pretty tough, but taught her a lot.

 

Sorry, that was a little all over the place, there's just a lot to say. I wish you luck.

[ctcpx084]

A traditional program will more than likely give you more exposure to children in schools and more opportunities to practice teaching. Like many crafts, it's not something you will learn in a six week summer seminar. The more you are doing it, the more prepared you will be once you are in front of 30 kids by yourself. Don't feel swayed by grants and loan paybacks, either. You should endeavor to walk out of your teacher preparation as ready as you can be. If you can afford to do traditional preparation, there's no doubt that this will bring you more exposure to kids and teaching.

[JBums1028]

I think the general consensus from everyone is that you should major in education if that's what you want to do. I personally think you should, but that upon graduation you should also consider TFA. I don't see why it has to be an either or situation for you. Yes, it might put you in the minority for the TFA program, but I think if you have both a traditional student teaching appointment and two years with TFA on your resume that would make you a very competitive teaching candidate IMO.

 

Plus you have more options upon graduation. If you do the traditional route, and you don't get accepted to TFA, then you just try to find a teaching job. If you don't major in education and you don't get accepted to TFA, then what will you do? That's probably something you should consider.

 

I think part of the reason why they might shy away from hiring education majors might have to do with their motivations for applying for the program. They might also be worried that, since you could find a different teaching job easily based on your qualifications, that you are only applying to TFA as sort of a "stop over" until something better comes along. This is easily fixable though by demonstrating in your interviews that you genuinely care about the mission of the program. Right now it's probably a good idea to do your homework on TFA. Maybe attend an information session at your school or contact someone who runs the program and see if they can put you in touch with a current TFA teacher. Get a good feel for the program and see if it's right for you. That's my advice.

[ctcpx084]

If you get a traditional education degree, you should be able to get a job in any of the areas where TFA or TNTP are located since these areas are typically desperate for teachers.

 

JBurns, as rising_star already wrote, you don't need to do TFA or TNTP if you already possess a license--you can go in to any school you can get yourself hired into, including the more challenging ones that TFA/TNTP look to staff. Administrators want professionals who are ready to enter the classroom, not products of well-publicized programs just for the sake of having someone from a well-publicized program.

 

I don't really see the point in going through teacher preparation as an undergraduate, then sitting through some post-bac teacher preparation lite in order to teach in schools that you are already qualified to teach (in assuming you successfully completed your student teaching and everything). Maybe it is a resume builder, but so is going right into these challenging school environments. 

 

If you're not ready to commit to education as an undergraduate, then I would wait it out and apply to TFA/TNTP afterwards. If you aren't selected, you can always earn credential through alternative certification, depending on where you're at and what university you're looking into. If you want a finer grade of teacher preparation, an undergraduate certification program is generally the way to go.

Edited August 31, 2013 by wjdavis

[michigan girl]

AVOID TFA. If you know for certain that you want to pursue a career in K-12 education, then pursue the traditional education master's degree path. Teach for America is a resume-padding scam that only does a greater disservice to the disadvantaged students who need dedicated teachers. 

[AmateurNerd]

They accept a lot of Pol. Sci. majors actually, because they have two stated goals, one being to close the achievement gap, and the other is to affect political policy - lots of TFA grads go into politics, so it's a nice alumni group to be a part of.

 

This is the problem with TFA. TFA is a vehicle for 21- and 22-year-olds to break into politics, and/or grad school; it is NOT a quality teacher-preparation program. Real teachers (not the well-meaning but untrained pseudo-teachers churned out by TFA) generally say that it takes several years to become truly competent at teaching, and many more to be considered "good" or "great." TFA makes a mockery of the teaching profession by placing its pseudo-teachers into classrooms after just a few weeks of "training." The fact that TFA measures its pseudo-teachers' performance via the amount of improvement their students show on standardized exams is just icing on the B.S. cake. Stay away from TFA if you honestly care about being a good teacher--TFA will not give you the preparation you need to succeed at the head of the classroom, and its political agenda undermines the work that committed teachers do. TFA's done a great job marketing itself, but it is a sham and and embarrassment to teaching. Would you give someone a white coat and call them a doctor after a few months of med school, and let them perform surgery?

[tdix09]

Echoing @AmateurNerd.

 

Teaching and educating is a craft and skill like any other career. We educators deserve to be respected and paid appropriately. It's never fair to take 4 years of a traditional education program (theory and practice which people have spent generations formulating and refining) and squeeze it into a summer intensive training. There isn't an appropriate length of time to be fully ready and prepared to teach but it surely isn't 7 weeks. I've had leftovers in the fridge longer than that and I don't want them teaching middle school math.

 

My experiences with TFA teachers overall have been really poor - in the preparation they receive but also in character. It was clear they were looking for a stepstone (padding their resume for graduate/professional school) or trying to figure themselves out. Which many early 20somethings are doing, but for crying out loud... don't go figuring it out in front of 32 students who are probably trying to figure THEMselves out.

 

I'm sorry, a biochem major from an Ivy League who's always wanted to live in NY, can't find work in his field and is crying into his Sam Adams about what's next should NOT be teaching K-3 SPED on the Lower East Side. 

 

Lastly, I find a lot (not all, not even many, but enough) of TFA applicants are all down for the cause until a straw breaks the camel's back. Something mysteriously goes missing out of their desk? Ok, ish happens. 12+ hour days piling up? Sure, it's for the kids. 30+ year veterans sneering at you down the hall because your students just LOVE you to pieces 3 months after showing up? Shake it off.

 

All of that piles up into a seemingly innocent occurrence on their morning commute and that TFA Corps Member/teacher is clearing out their desk Friday afternoon ready to book it back to their hometown. They've got a game plan to get out and go back to their "normal lives" by grabbing a part-time job at a local restaurant, coffeeshop and yet again crying into their beers because they "tried so hard" and "just couldn't do it anymore." The children which you professed to make a difference for in Times New Roman 12 font in your personal statement? They're getting a sub on Monday. How long can that sub say "your teacher's out today" before they realize that another adult which they may or may not have started to put their trust and confidence in, has bailed again?

 

The children served in targeted TFA neighborhoods don't get to leave. Their parents didn't, and their parents' parents didn't. That's part of why they're "in-need." So if you're going to show up, show out. You knock that ish out. Educators are out here trying to close the achievement gap but that fortitude gap in the type of people who really want to but for all the reasons, can't and won't? Wider than the Grand Canyon through a fish-eye lens.

 

-fin-

 

ETA: I say this as an Americorps alum, and administrator of an Americorps program with hoards of students who are TFA hopefuls. Oh, the struggle!

Edited March 25, 2014 by tdix09

[td21230]

Echoing @AmateurNerd.

 

Teaching and educating is a craft and skill like any other career. We educators deserve to be respected and paid appropriately. It's never fair to take 4 years of a traditional education program (theory and practice which people have spent generations formulating and refining) and squeeze it into a summer intensive training. There isn't an appropriate length of time to be fully ready and prepared to teach but it surely isn't 7 weeks. I've had leftovers in the fridge longer than that and I don't want them teaching middle school math.

 

My experiences with TFA teachers overall have been really poor - in the preparation they receive but also in character. It was clear they were looking for a stepstone (padding their resume for graduate/professional school) or trying to figure themselves out. Which many early 20somethings are doing, but for crying out loud... don't go figuring it out in front of 32 students who are probably trying to figure THEMselves out.

 

I'm sorry, a biochem major from an Ivy League who's always wanted to live in NY, can't find work in his field and is crying into his Sam Adams about what's next should NOT be teaching K-3 SPED on the Lower East Side. 

 

Lastly, I find a lot (not all, not even many, but enough) of TFA applicants are all down for the cause until a straw breaks the camel's back. Something mysteriously goes missing out of their desk? Ok, ish happens. 12+ hour days piling up? Sure, it's for the kids. 30+ year veterans sneering at you down the hall because your students just LOVE you to pieces 3 months after showing up? Shake it off.

 

All of that piles up into a seemingly innocent occurrence on their morning commute and that TFA Corps Member/teacher is clearing out their desk Friday afternoon ready to book it back to their hometown. They've got a game plan to get out and go back to their "normal lives" by grabbing a part-time job at a local restaurant, coffeeshop and yet again crying into their beers because they "tried so hard" and "just couldn't do it anymore." The children which you professed to make a difference for in Times New Roman 12 font in your personal statement? They're getting a sub on Monday. How long can that sub say "your teacher's out today" before they realize that another adult which they may or may not have started to put their trust and confidence in, has bailed again?

 

The children served in targeted TFA neighborhoods don't get to leave. Their parents didn't, and their parents' parents didn't. That's part of why they're "in-need." So if you're going to show up, show out. You knock that ish out. Educators are out here trying to close the achievement gap but that fortitude gap in the type of people who really want to but for all the reasons, can't and won't? Wider than the Grand Canyon through a fish-eye lens.

 

-fin-

 

ETA: I say this as an Americorps alum, and administrator of an Americorps program with hoards of students who are TFA hopefuls. Oh, the struggle!

 

Do you want to back this up with any evidence/research/statistics? Or maybe a creative writing program makes more sense for you than an M.Ed.

 

Talya, as others have mentioned, plenty of education majors enter the Corps. You do lose some discretion over your placement, but with your degree you'll have the luxury of turning it down to teach on your own volition. My colleagues who went your route did so to receive the high-quality professional development not always available to teachers in struggling schools and the other advantages afforded to TFA alumni (i.e., networking, AmeriCorps education award, leadership opportunities). Happy to talk more over direct message or e-mail.

[JBums1028]

I see the point everyone is making with TFA. Yes the training isn't long enough. But you could also argue the training isn't long enough for traditional teaching programs. If we're going to use the med school analogy, I also wouldn't hand someone a white coat and call them a doctor after only a semester of training either. However, that's a separate debate, so I digress...

 

Going back to what I think the OP is getting at, it sounds like you want to enter teaching and teach in your home state. Unfortunately, whatever route you choose to pursue is probably going to take you out of state, because even TFA can't guarantee you'll be placed in PA. I think that's something you're going to have to accept entering this profession.

[tdix09]

Do you want to back this up with any evidence/research/statistics? Or maybe a creative writing program makes more sense for you than an M.Ed.

 

Seeing as how my response is experiential and and not a research paper... no, but don't doubt my ability to do so. I could back it up with the thousands of teachers and students who bear the long-term (socioemotional, intellectual and economic) effects of an uneven educational playing field. Quality of teachers (and teacher training) surely plays a part of that. Im sure there are studies that connect student retention, college readiness, disparities in standardized testing, community health... you name it, someone is studying how teacher preparedness is positively influencing or negatively affecting these issues.

 

Listen, are there amazing teachers that come to TFA for the right reasons and excel? Absolutely. Are there craptastic teachers that are trained via traditional education programs? Just as many. There are exceptions to everything.

 

from the OP:

 

 

the job market for traditionally-certified teachers is EXTREMELY competitive, and it is actually easier to get into TFA than it is to get a teaching job as an education major. 

 

To that I say, if you are looking for an  "easier" way into your career, that doesn't sound like you're willing to build your craft like any other professional would. I'm just over education as a field getting the short end of the stick. No one would suggest an engineer, for example, to look for alternate routes in finding a job. The market for traditionally-certified teachers SHOULD be competitive: we should be absolutely  more discerning about who we put in the classroom to teach and educate.

Edited March 25, 2014 by tdix09

[ctcpx084]

TFA has a pretty wretched attrition rate, too. Easier to get in, perhaps, and easier to "burn out" or just quit.

[chigirl2014]

I have a LOT of friends who have gone into the TFA program over the past three years. Out of the 20-30 people I know who have entered, only 3-5 are actually interested in becoming teachers. The rest are using is at a stepping stone to law school, business school, or as a way to delay "getting a real job." (Although the program is very hard so I'm not sure why they took this as an "easy" path). I also know 3 people who have dropped out of the program between the first and second years. Just thought I would offer this perspective. If you are really interested in being a teacher, I would not recommend the TFA pathway.

[td21230]

TFA has a pretty wretched attrition rate, too. Easier to get in, perhaps, and easier to "burn out" or just quit.

 

Prove it

[td21230]

Seeing as how my response is experiential and and not a research paper... no, but don't doubt my ability to do so. I could back it up with the thousands of teachers and students who bear the long-term (socioemotional, intellectual and economic) effects of an uneven educational playing field. Quality of teachers (and teacher training) surely plays a part of that. Im sure there are studies that connect student retention, college readiness, disparities in standardized testing, community health... you name it, someone is studying how teacher preparedness is positively influencing or negatively affecting these issues.

 

Use Google. Find the studies. You're right: plenty of them have been done. I did the program, and your perception from the outside doesn't comport with classroom realities in one of the toughest districts nationally. Nor does it corroborate with the research you described.

 

If you're going to claim that TFA teachers quit suddenly and disproportionately, and research is available, you're on the hook to back it up.

 

If you claim they don't perform as well as traditionally-certified teachers in high need settings, and research is available, you're on the hook to back it up.

[OCD or Perfection?]

Hmmm...how many of the people bashing TFA were actually rejected by TFA at some point?

 

Who in the heck thinks TFA is easy to get in? TFA is more than twice as hard to get into than the Harvard Graduate School of Education with a (2012) acceptance rate under 13% compared to HGSE's ~30+%.

 

So you think the university of crap in the middle of nowhere I went to does a better job of preparing teachers to take on classrooms? Have a look at this for those of you who always need research to back your common sense:

 

"Teaching has tended to attract weaker pools. In 2004 the National Council on Teacher Quality reported that education draws a “disproportionately high number of candidates from the lower end of the distribution of academic ability.” In 2004, the average combined SAT score for college-bound seniors was 1026; for those intending to major in education, it was 965."

 

Historically and the world over, other than developed countries that pay teachers equal to doctors and investment bankers (Finland, Denmark, Luxembourg), the teaching profession attracts its highest number of teachers from the lowest performing students. I have personally met so many students in the three countries where I have taught who got into teaching for:

 

1. not getting their major of choice or knowing they never stood a chance

2. the chance to spend the summers with their kids and have a long vacation without having to worry about daycare

3. the excellent retirement packages that district schools offer teachers---REALLY??? You wanna BREATHE through the 30 most important years of your life so you can LIVE a bit more comfortably in retirement?

4. surprise surprise, most teachers in public schools aren't sitting on gradcafe trying to figure out how to get into Ivy League grad schools and upwards of $50,000 in debt for a chance to be able to change children's lives. No, they have more worthy causes for their money like buying a house or adding to that cushy retirement fund or getting together on happy hours to bitch about the crappy system they chose to be a part of for extrinsic reasons.

 

Having said this, and after seeing this thread, I spent a few hours today reading different research and commentary on TFA. I am in no way affiliated with TFA, never attended any of their recruitment events (they never thought it worth their time to show up at my crap university which btw was still "preparing" teachers by the truckloads). I have had the good fortune to meet four TFA alums and they are the most impressive and dedicated lot. All four of them are still teaching and one is attending HGSE with me this fall to continue to work for children, which was her passion-not an excuse to get into law school. Meanwhile, as a teacher and college coach for undocumented citizens, she has sent more kids to college that would otherwise never have gone than anyone else I know.

 

I'm sorry, I don't believe the myth of teacher training. In the last 8 years, I have taught at five private schools that served from 80-1500 children. In all 8 years, the number of certified teachers teaching alongside me has been nearly non-existent. The one certified teacher with a degree in education (unlike any of the rest of us) was fired because she could not fit into the culture (read: being on time, speaking to children gently, leaving her baggage at home, being there for lunch duty). Meanwhile, despite being exposed to the horrors of all of us untrained teachers, our students have continued to flourish on every measure of standardized testing. Currently, the school I work at serves twice-exceptional students who have failed out of the public school system where they were taught by special education "trained and certified" teachers. Students whose performance was consistently ranked as LD, MR etc etc flourish at the 90%+ percentiles in our school full of non-professional educators.

 

Against this backdrop, TFA does an amazing job of exposing students from low-income schools who would otherwise NEVER be touched by the kinds of quality people TFA recruits. Like all organizations with such a big undertaking, they surely have plenty of flaws. But to unequivocally write them off when people much smarter and better informed than your average grad-cafeer are giving them preference for ivy league admissions...well, that's just silly...

 

To the OP...best of luck-I know I didn't answer your question but feel free to reach out to me through PM if you want.

[ctcpx084]

Use Google. Find the studies. You're right: plenty of them have been done. I did the program, and your perception from the outside doesn't comport with classroom realities in one of the toughest districts nationally. Nor does it corroborate with the research you described.

 

If you're going to claim that TFA teachers quit suddenly and disproportionately, and research is available, you're on the hook to back it up.

 

If you claim they don't perform as well as traditionally-certified teachers in high need settings, and research is available, you're on the hook to back it up.

 

Well, yes, we would have to define what kind of attrition we are talking about (i.e., term of commitment, exceeding beyond initial commitment), and perhaps focus on effectiveness and attention separately. When I look at "Google", I see a number of "Google links" expressing concerns along both fronts, to say the least.

 

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2011/10/04/kappan_donaldson.html [2/3 stay, but few actually stay long enough in context to fully develop]

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/a-new-look-at-teach-for-americ.html

 

http://www.greatlakescenter.org/docs/Policy_Briefs/Heilig_TeachForAmerica.pdf [The original study from the above article]

 

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-04-27/story/low-teach-america-retention-rate-examined-duval-embraces-program [as few as 11% teaching in public schools in five years]

 

Do these not count? Or are you more of a peer-reviewed only kind of person?

[ctcpx084]

Incidentally, if I didn't have to go dredge up some things in other aspects of teaching and teacher education, I would go and search for peer-reviewed support. At the moment, I don't have the time to do that, so I'll have to accept your criticism if the above links (which, again, are straight from a "Google search") are insufficient "proof", or even insufficient enough to be used to interrogate your individual experience, which is at this point all you've offered.

[ctcpx084]

Hmmm...how many of the people bashing TFA were actually rejected by TFA at some point?

 

Who in the heck thinks TFA is easy to get in? TFA is more than twice as hard to get into than the Harvard Graduate School of Education with a (2012) acceptance rate under 13% compared to HGSE's ~30+%.

 

To your first question, no. Again, when people disagree with you, they are not "bashing" necessarily. I pointed to a frequent criticism of TFA, which I did not support with anything, whether that source was academic or otherwise--a point td21230 pointed out.

 

I should point out that saying it was easy to get in to was totally incorrect; I'm not sure what I meant when I said that, but the academic credentials of incoming candidates are certainly not lacking, and are in fact carefully scrutinized. 

Edited March 25, 2014 by wjdavis

[GnosisExchange]

The issue with a degree in teaching is that it is a professional degree. The skills sets you gain aren't always applicable to other fields. As such, if you change your mind later on, it'll effectively be a worthless degree.