Graduate Programs in Christian Apologetics / Philosophy of Religion

[Wafer]

I'm looking at different schools with a graduate program in Christian Apologetics / Philosophy of Religion . So far, I've looked at the programs offered by Biola, Luther Rice, Denver Seminary, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Houston Baptist University, and Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Would anyone here recommend those schools? If not, which schools would you recommend?

[Lux Lex Pax]

If you're dead set on this course of study, I'd go with philosophy of religion in a philosophy department over Christian apologetics in any of the aforementioned programs. A philosophy department would be a very different environment from the evangelical friendly programs you mentioned, but you'd be better positioned for the job market and a philosophy department would provide you with more opportunities for intellectual development should you decide later that you don't want to limit yourself to Christian apologetics. I'd look at philosophy departments at Catholic universities like Notre Dame, Fordham, and Boston College, or philosophy departments that have prominent Christians like Dean Zimmerman at Rutgers, Keith DeRose and John Hare at Yale, or places that do medieval philosophy like Cornell or St. Louis University. I think most of these programs would allow you to explore philosophy of religion/philosophical theology in a way that wouldn't be as intellectually (or spiritually) constraining as studying Christian apologetics at Biola or TEDS.

[sacklunch]

If you are a conservative Christian and plan to only work at conservative schools thereafter, then yeah, those schools would likely suite your needs. But, as Lux said, if you want to work at any 'mainstream'/large theology/religious studies dept. in a private or state uni, such an education would not land you a ton (any?) of jobs, I imagine, especially in the current academic job market. Then again, a degree from the big name universities would likely keep you from working at any of those more conservative schools. So I think it just depends on what you wanna do end game.

 

For what it's worth, most of the people on this board are interested in those 'mainstream' departments (read Lux above). My point is that many of us are biased and simply have no experience with the schools you listed. Maybe somebody else will chime in with some specifics about those schools! 

[newenglandshawn]

For what it's worth, furtivemode, you said that a degree from a big name university would likely prevent a person from working at a conservative school. I don't think this is true whatsoever. In fact, as I have perused the faculty at many conservative schools, a considerable number of them have their doctorates at the big schools. As long as a person can demonstrate that he/she is committed to the conservative dogma, I would think most schools would view it as an asset to have faculty from top-tier programs.

[Body Politics]

Also bear in mind that funding is an issue at smaller, Evangelical schools. You would not get much, if any, financial assistance at those schools.

[Lux Lex Pax]

For what it's worth, furtivemode, you said that a degree from a big name university would likely prevent a person from working at a conservative school. I don't think this is true whatsoever. In fact, as I have perused the faculty at many conservative schools, a considerable number of them have their doctorates at the big schools. As long as a person can demonstrate that he/she is committed to the conservative dogma, I would think most schools would view it as an asset to have faculty from top-tier programs.

I agree. Most of these evangelical schools love Harvard, Yale, and Princeton graduates as long as they tow the party line on doctrine and morals.

[Kuriakos]

Two things: 1) Luther Rice is basically a diploma mill 2) Christian Apologetics degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on. Do yourself a huge favor and go with something on the Philosophy of Religion end of things. Your future is far less limited then. 

[Body Politics]

Haha -- everyone else kind of pussyfooted around it, but Kuriakos just said what we were all thinking.

[Lux Lex Pax]

If you are a conservative Christian and plan to only work at conservative schools thereafter, then yeah, those schools would likely suite your needs. But, as Lux said, if you want to work at any 'mainstream'/large theology/religious studies dept. in a private or state uni, such an education would not land you a ton (any?) of jobs, I imagine, especially in the current academic job market. Then again, a degree from the big name universities would likely keep you from working at any of those more conservative schools. So I think it just depends on what you wanna do end game.

 

For what it's worth, most of the people on this board are interested in those 'mainstream' departments (read Lux above). My point is that many of us are biased and simply have no experience with the schools you listed. Maybe somebody else will chime in with some specifics about those schools! 

Job prospects outside of the evangelical circuit was one of my concerns. Another, however, is intellectual development. Studying in a philosophy department would allow one to branch out into other areas if the whole defender-of-the-faith thing didn't work out. It would also allow one to think in the context of a broader tradition, whether that be the Christian tradition in Catholic universities or Medieval philosophy programs or the Western philosophical tradition in a secular philosophy department with prominent Christian philosophers. I'm afraid that Christian apologetics programs, though they strive to impress upon students a Christian worldview, just aren't going to be rigorous enough or as connected with broader Christian and philosophical traditions to give students the deep understanding necessary to do good thinking beyond repeating the shallow, overused, and mistaken arguments that apologists always trot out.

[sacklunch]

Glad you said it so I didn't have to...hehe. OP, all joking aside, if you are truly a conservative Christian (which is of course fine), you most likely would not enjoy your time at any of the 'mainline' divinity/theological schools nor in most secular philosophy departments. I have studied in both, am an atheist, and I imagine people like me would make you want to end yourself in class (heh). Not that people like me are pushing our agenda during class, but if I am to be honest, there is an agenda in many 'mainline' departments and that is: leave it at the door. I'm not saying there are not certain theological classes where folks talk about their own points of view (I'm in biblical studies), but if you go to class and use conservative theological arguments I don't think you would 1) proceed very well in the department (because most people would not agree with you) 2) nor would you get what you are looking for out of such an institution.

 

As far as professors with fancy degrees at conservative schools, sure, I don't doubt it happens. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe you would want to transition from more than likely a very liberal place (mainline div schools) to a conservative school setting. It happens I have no doubt and honestly I don't have enough experience to really offer any other point of view than what I already have, so I freely welcome any and all advice from the rest of you!

[marXian]

Regarding the OP's list, I think the best bets are actually either Talbot (Biola) or Trinity. I believe Talbot has a philosophy MA (or something like that) that isn't Christian apologetics. And actually, it produces surprisingly competitive students. I know a student admitted to the philosophy dept. here at NU who did his MA at Talbot, and NU is a top 30 Leiter program. I think J.P. Moreland knows the game and is interested in getting students placed in top tier PhD programs in philosophy. Trinity also produces some pretty brilliant students (I know a couple.)

 

The take away from all of this, however, is that you should definitely stay away from any degree with the phrase "Christians apologetics" in it. The bottom line is that if you're truly interested in that, you don't need a degree in that specifically. There are lots of Christians (even fairly conservative evangelicals) who are students in secular philosophy departments who are able to do work that is related to apologetics though perhaps not explicitly so (e.g. work on epistemic agency, philosophy of science, etc.)

[Wafer]

If you're dead set on this course of study, I'd go with philosophy of religion in a philosophy department over Christian apologetics in any of the aforementioned programs. A philosophy department would be a very different environment from the evangelical friendly programs you mentioned, but you'd be better positioned for the job market and a philosophy department would provide you with more opportunities for intellectual development should you decide later that you don't want to limit yourself to Christian apologetics. I'd look at philosophy departments at Catholic universities like Notre Dame, Fordham, and Boston College, or philosophy departments that have prominent Christians like Dean Zimmerman at Rutgers, Keith DeRose and John Hare at Yale, or places that do medieval philosophy like Cornell or St. Louis University. I think most of these programs would allow you to explore philosophy of religion/philosophical theology in a way that wouldn't be as intellectually (or spiritually) constraining as studying Christian apologetics at Biola or TEDS.

 

Do places like Biola or TEDS prepare their students in such a way so that they are able to give a good defense against the strongest objections to Christianity?

[Wafer]

I would like to thank everyone for their advice. I appreciate it.

[marXian]

Do places like Biola or TEDS prepare their students in such a way so that they are able to give a good defense against the strongest objections to Christianity?

 

I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a "good defense." One thing to keep in mind is that virtually any program worth its salt is actually going to tear away a lot of what you already think is absolutely true. A good seminary education should question your answers rather than answer your questions. That's good if you're truly interested in apologetics since being able to see the weaknesses of your own claims is step one in learning how to defend them.

 

The sort of "defending" that goes on at more middle-of-the-road places (as far as evangelical seminaries go) like Trinity, Fuller, and even more conservative places like Biola is not the same as the sort of apologetics you'll find at much more conservative schools, like Moody or Dallas. The focus, in other words, isn't really on defense via proving someone else wrong but "defense" in the sense of understanding your own position more fully. From your three posts, it's hard to get a sense of which type of program you'd be interested in.

[Greenwood16]

If you're dead set on this course of study, I'd go with philosophy of religion in a philosophy department over Christian apologetics in any of the aforementioned programs.

 

Is there a reason you would advocate a phil of religion degree from a phil deparment over a phil of religion degree from a strong intellectual religion department. Say the RELS PHD program AOS phil of religion at U of Chicago? Are phil of religion degrees from a philosophy department always held in higher regard than that of an intellectual religion department?

[Lux Lex Pax]

Is there a reason you would advocate a phil of religion degree from a phil deparment over a phil of religion degree from a strong intellectual religion department. Say the RELS PHD program AOS phil of religion at U of Chicago? Are phil of religion degrees from a philosophy department always held in higher regard than that of an intellectual religion department?

Too put the point broadly, philosophy of religion in a philosophy department is still going to have a strong emphasis on traditional topics like arguments for and against the existence of God, the nature of religious experience, etc. In a religious studies department, you're more likely to get exposure to continental philosophy (Nietzsche, Husserl, Heidegger, Foucault, Sartre, Derrida, Caputo, Marion, etc.) which doesn't care much for the kinds of apologetic arguments that the OP cares about.

[Greenwood16]

Too put the point broadly, philosophy of religion in a philosophy department is still going to have a strong emphasis on traditional topics like arguments for and against the existence of God, the nature of religious experience, etc. In a religious studies department, you're more likely to get exposure to continental philosophy (Nietzsche, Husserl, Heidegger, Foucault, Sartre, Derrida, Caputo, Marion, etc.) which doesn't care much for the kinds of apologetic arguments that the OP cares about.

 

That makes sense. 

[Perique69]

Bob Jones has an excellent program in apologetics.  

[xypathos]

Bob Jones has an excellent program in apologetics.  

 

Unless I'm mistaken, BJU isn't regionally accredited. That said, if your hope is to enter into employment or operate within the circle of independent seminaries, this may not be a problem. However, if you want to enter into a recognized university, be it in some teaching capacity or to apply to a regionally accredited PhD program, you're quite...screwed.

[Kuriakos]

Unless I'm mistaken, BJU isn't regionally accredited. That said, if your hope is to enter into employment or operate within the circle of independent seminaries, this may not be a problem. However, if you want to enter into a recognized university, be it in some teaching capacity or to apply to a regionally accredited PhD program, you're quite...screwed.

 

I'm certain the BJU recommendation was a joke.

[xypathos]

I'm certain the BJU recommendation was a joke.

 

I had hoped so, but given the OP's by all accounts, genuine, interest in the field, it's best not to lead them astray.

[RedDoor]

Excellent advice thus far. I must echo the recommendation of going to a secular or Catholic university. In my experience, the conservative seminaries are behind the curve (sometimes embarrassingly so) in so far as philosophy of religion (and sometimes just philosophy proper) goes. This is especially true of the more reformed schools; David Wells is still writing about Postmodernism for goodness sake.

 

That being said, I don't know much about Catholic schools, but I know BC has a wonderful program. Talbot has somewhat of a reputation nowadays thanks in large part to James K.A. Smith who coined the term "Talbot school" when referring to Christian conservative thought on continental philosophy, but that reputation is most likely only within the reformed evangelical circles (which are quite large in the US, but not outside of it). Good luck!

[xypathos]

Since we're discussing Talbot some, how has William Lane Craig affected Talbot's reputation? I'm not an apologist, nor have I been following the hottest name(s) in the field, just curious more or less. I was writing a small paper on modern Christian approaches to theodicy. A professor, in her comments, suggested I check out William Lane Craig's writings but I've been hesitant to so far. I generally shy away from such material but if he's worth checking out, I'll bite.

[Kuriakos]

Since we're discussing Talbot some, how has William Lane Craig affected Talbot's reputation? I'm not an apologist, nor have I been following the hottest name(s) in the field, just curious more or less. I was writing a small paper on modern Christian approaches to theodicy. A professor, in her comments, suggested I check out William Lane Craig's writings but I've been hesitant to so far. I generally shy away from such material but if he's worth checking out, I'll bite.

 

WLC is a "research professor" who lives on the other side of the country from Talbot. According to some former Talbot students, He doesn't really contribute academically (at least not regularly). 

[Wafer]

I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a "good defense." One thing to keep in mind is that virtually any program worth its salt is actually going to tear away a lot of what you already think is absolutely true. A good seminary education should question your answers rather than answer your questions. That's good if you're truly interested in apologetics since being able to see the weaknesses of your own claims is step one in learning how to defend them.

 

The sort of "defending" that goes on at more middle-of-the-road places (as far as evangelical seminaries go) like Trinity, Fuller, and even more conservative places like Biola is not the same as the sort of apologetics you'll find at much more conservative schools, like Moody or Dallas. The focus, in other words, isn't really on defense via proving someone else wrong but "defense" in the sense of understanding your own position more fully. From your three posts, it's hard to get a sense of which type of program you'd be interested in.

 

I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a "good defense." One thing to keep in mind is that virtually any program worth its salt is actually going to tear away a lot of what you already think is absolutely true. A good seminary education should question your answers rather than answer your questions. That's good if you're truly interested in apologetics since being able to see the weaknesses of your own claims is step one in learning how to defend them.

 

The sort of "defending" that goes on at more middle-of-the-road places (as far as evangelical seminaries go) like Trinity, Fuller, and even more conservative places like Biola is not the same as the sort of apologetics you'll find at much more conservative schools, like Moody or Dallas. The focus, in other words, isn't really on defense via proving someone else wrong but "defense" in the sense of understanding your own position more fully. From your three posts, it's hard to get a sense of which type of program you'd be interested in.

 

I'm interested in a philosophy of religion program. I would like to get maximum exposure to the strongest objections against to Christianity so that I practice apologetics.