Should I take the GRE a sixth time?

[Just Jeff]

Hi, everyone.

 

I'm stressing out so much right now. There was a man in the chatroom who told me that I should consider applying to grad school next year because of my low GRE scores.

 

Verbal: 154

Quant: 145

Analytical: 5.0

 

 

I have a 3.9 GPA, a Master's Degree from NYU, research experience, teaching experience, and a great writing sample. However, if the GRE serves as a filter, I'm out.

 

I took the GRE on November 4. Should I take it again on December 3rd? The deadline for my dream school is 12.15.13, and according to most, NYU is a high-tiered school, even though I already go there. Please advise me as seats for the GRE are filling up fast.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Eek, that's a tough one. I'm not sure if you re-take it if it will get there in time. It usually takes 2 weeks for them to score the essay portion of the GRE and then at least another 5 business days after that for them to send it--if I understand their website correctly. So, unfortunately there's probably not much you can do about it and stressing out isn't going to help. Since you already go to NYU, why not talk to the department and see what they think--maybe they'll be okay with your scores getting there late? Since you think that your other application materials are strong, and you already go to that school then maybe you'll be fine. There's really no way for anyone on here to tell you whether you are fine or not, but yeah, the truth is that those aren't great scores for such a great program. Talk to the department, relax, get your application in, and see what happens. 

Edited November 17, 2013 by BunnyWantsaPhD

[123hardasABC]

If you want to apply this cycle, I don't think you have the time to retake the test. Just send in your best scores and apply. The rest of your profile sounds strong. While the scores you mentioned are low, the GRE alone does not dictate whether or not you will get in. The rest of the application heavily outweighs it.

[clandry]

I would email your prospective school and ask for their opinion. 

I have certainly seen students get declined solely because of their GRE scores. This is largely dependent on the school, so you should check instead of relying on a generalization (not much of a generalization). 

[Seeking]

Bullet Cat,

 

First, don't stress out. You need to be relaxed to complete your application process properly.

 

Second, send emails to the top-ranked ones where you are applying, telling them your overall profile, the area you are interested in and ask whether your GRE scores will act as a filter. If they specifically say your GRE score will be a hindrance, drop them, otherwise take a chance and apply.

 

Now there is no time to re-take the GRE and certainly not for the 6th time. I think the money that you will spend on your 6th re-take on the GRE you might as well spend it on your applications - you never know what will happen.

 

Third, apply to the top 3 in Canada - Toronto, McGill and British Columbia and also to the Top 2 in the UK - Oxford and Cambridge. You don't require GRE at these schools and they are as prestigious as the best in the US - and with a Masters degree, you complete your PhD in 3-4 years at these schools. Their PhD will also lead to jobs in the US.

[Just Jeff]

On 11/17/2013 at 7:35 AM, Seeking said:

Bullet Cat,

 

First, don't stress out. You need to be relaxed to complete your application process properly.

 

Second, send emails to the top-ranked ones where you are applying, telling them your overall profile, the area you are interested in and ask whether your GRE scores will act as a filter. If they specifically say your GRE score will be a hindrance, drop them, otherwise take a chance and apply.

 

Now there is no time to re-take the GRE and certainly not for the 6th time. I think the money that you will spend on your 6th re-take on the GRE you might as well spend it on your applications - you never know what will happen.

 

Third, apply to the top 3 in Canada - Toronto, McGill and British Columbia and also to the Top 2 in the UK - Oxford and Cambridge. You don't require GRE at these schools and they are as prestigious as the best in the US - and with a Masters degree, you complete your PhD in 3-4 years at these schools. Their PhD will also lead to jobs in the US.

 

 

Oh my goodness, thank you so much. I still feel a bit iffy about going abroad for school though. Do you know of any schools that do not require the GRE at all? I know the IUP doesn't, but it's not much of a great PhD program to me.

[Seeking]

Well, considering the number of people who get a PhD in English from well-ranked schools in the US, it's not wise to get an English PhD from a low-ranked school that doesn't ask for the GRE - chances are that a well-recognised US school will always require the GRE.

 

It's better to take a chance and send your applications and apply to top 2-3 schools in UK and Canada as well.

 

It's only a matter of taking a flight back home during vacations. It's not such a big deal. There are thousands of students who go abroad for higher education - often crossing half the planet - and stay abroad for years without returning home.

 

You are not going that far to Canada or to UK. 

 

And who knows, you may get into one of the US programs you've listed above.

 

But if you must, you can have a look at UMKC's I-PhD programs. They don't insist upon a high GRE score.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Seeking

[Just Jeff]

Well, considering the number of people who get a PhD in English from well-ranked schools in the US, it's not wise to get an English PhD from a low-ranked school that doesn't ask for the GRE - chances are that a well-recognised US school will always require the GRE.

 

It's better to take a chance and send your applications and apply to top 2-3 schools in UK and Canada as well.

 

It's only a matter of taking a flight back home during vacations. It's not such a big deal. There are thousands of students who go abroad for higher education - often crossing half the planet - and stay abroad for years without returning home.

 

You are not going that far to Canada or to UK. 

 

And who knows, you may get into one of the US programs you've listed above.

 

But if you must, you can have a look at UMKC's I-PhD programs. They don't insist upon a high GRE score.

You are fantastic! Thank you so much!!!! xoxoxox

[SocInTheCity]

A 6th time? No. Your record is strong. If you've already taken it 5 times, these are probably accurate scores.  Profs have told me that you can address a score you deem to be "weak" in your personal statement/statement of purpose in one simple sentence.  The GRE is just ONE measure. Don't stress!

[TexasGuy]

I just dont understand...you have a 3.9 GPA meaning you have been able to ace almost all your classes (that is, acing midterm and final exams)..

 

The GRE should be nothing for you....what is your major and how did you prepare for the GRE the first 5 times you took it?

Edited November 20, 2013 by TexasGuy

[Seeking]

GRE is no test of research skills, especially for Humanities disciplines.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Seeking

[Just Jeff]

I just dont understand...you have a 3.9 GPA meaning you have been able to ace almost all your classes (that is, acing midterm and final exams)..

 

The GRE should be nothing for you....what is your major and how did you prepare for the GRE the first 5 times you took it?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, some of us are just not excellent test-takers.

[Just Jeff]

A 6th time? No. Your record is strong. If you've already taken it 5 times, these are probably accurate scores.  Profs have told me that you can address a score you deem to be "weak" in your personal statement/statement of purpose in one simple sentence.  The GRE is just ONE measure. Don't stress!

 

 

You are wonderful. Thank you so much for your encouragement. I will try my best.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Well, some of us are just not excellent test-takers.

I think his/her point is, you have a 3.9 GPA so you've probably taken a few (probably many) tests in your college career. 

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

I think his/her point is, you have a 3.9 GPA so you've probably taken a few (probably many) tests in your college career. 

 

Well, that's a really poor assumption. I think I probably took at total of 3 tests, if that, in college. And, I also had a high GPA. 

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Well, that's a really poor assumption. I think I probably took at total of 3 tests, if that, in college. And, I also had a high GPA. 

I'm sorry but that doesn't even make sense. Even if your field is one that doesn't have many tests, you still had to take your gen ed classes that all college students are required to take. That includes two math classes, two science classes (some schools require a lab), lots of schools require two semesters of foreign language. So those classes alone are probably 20 tests. 

[Loric]

I'm sorry but that doesn't even make sense. Even if your field is one that doesn't have many tests, you still had to take your gen ed classes that all college students are required to take. That includes two math classes, two science classes (some schools require a lab), lots of schools require two semesters of foreign language. So those classes alone are probably 20 tests. 

 

I went to a 4 year university but I was in the arts. Some of my classes were literally doing Yoga 3x a week for 1.5 hours. I still took 100's of other tests, mostly with scantrons, to get my degree.

 

The people who say they didn't take tests make me seriously question the validity of their degree.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Maybe I exaggerated when I said I only took 3 tests, but what I meant was I only remember about 3 classes that had tests in them. The classes I took for the sciences portion of the degree were Astronomy where we had 1-2 tests each semester (2 semesters). And I took one math class that was an independent study that had one test at the end. My spanish classes were literature based so I had to read books, write essays, and give presentations (they were upper level--so past the test-taking stages). Oh, I did take a Psychology class that had a test or 2. The rest of my classes were in my 2 majors (English and Gender Studies) which didn't have tests. So, what, that's a total of around 6-10 tests, maybe? Either way, taking these tests in no way prepared me for the GRE. The questions on the GRE are not similar. And, it's a standardized test which causes anxiety under pressure. 

 

That's fine if people want to tear me apart for my low estimation or say that I'm back-tracking or whatever, but I think my basic point still stands--the small amount of tests that I took did not prepare me to succeed on the GRE. I got a high GPA at a big 10 institution. 

Edited November 23, 2013 by BunnyWantsaPhD

[Loric]

Is your high GPA at a big 10 enough to offset a poor showing on the GRE though..?

 

If your goal was graduate study - or something beyond which requires graduate study - then your program and school failed you by not preparing you properly for what is a standard test expected of most students.

[Seeking]

Well, if we think that way then almost everyone's education fails them since almost everyone has to prepare for the GRE after going through all the Undergraduate work and the Undergraduate work doesn't prepare anyone for the GRE.

 

But I think this way of looking at things is to reverse the importance of academic work vis-a-vis the GRE.

 

The point is that the aim of the Undergraduate education is not to prepare the students for the GRE. It's to prepare them for Graduate school. It's the Graduate education that is in focus here, not the GRE.

 

Ideally, GRE should not be there at all since it is no test of research skills needed at Graduate school.

 

GRE is essentially a dispensable filtering mechanism developed to screen candidates out of the Graduate school - and there is really no logic why the GRE should be an index of this filter. It is essentially an expensive nuisance as far as Graduate research is concerned. GRE has nothing to do with Graduate Research.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Seeking

[Loric]

Most people's GPA's and GRE's line up...

[Seeking]

No they don't. Most people's GPA and GRE scores don't line up. I repeat - GRE is an expensive nuisance that has nothing to do with Graduate Research.

 

But yes, taking it for the sixth time is unseemly.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Seeking

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Most people's GPA's and GRE's line up...

 

Where's your data for this? From what I've seen on grad cafe people talk all the time about how they can't seem to pass the darn GRE, yet have other great qualifications. Even department websites for PhD programs say that they take other things into consideration first before GREs, showing that they know that they they might not match up with the other levels of your package (including GPA). I've never heard someone say that your GREs should reflect your GPA--I've heard more of the opposite than anything. Some people are good test takers. Others are not. Some people study for months or even a year and do really well because of this--others study and their anxiety still gets the best of them. Some people don't study at all and do great; others can't do this. There's a ton of factors to consider here. 

 

Even all of the preparation books that I've seen for the GRE state something like "The GRE is a reflection of how well you can do on the GRE. It is not a reflection of how smart you are, no matter what ETS would like you to think"

Edited November 23, 2013 by BunnyWantsaPhD

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Where's your data for this? From what I've seen on grad cafe people talk all the time about how they can't seem to pass the darn GRE, yet have other great qualifications. Even department websites for PhD programs say that they take other things into consideration first before GREs, showing that they know that they they might not match up with the other levels of your package (including GPA). I've never heard someone say that your GREs should reflect your GPA--I've heard more of the opposite than anything. Some people are good test takers. Others are not. Some people study for months or even a year and do really well because of this--others study and their anxiety still gets the best of them. Some people don't study at all and do great; others can't do this. There's a ton of factors to consider here. 

 

Even all of the preparation books that I've seen for the GRE state something like "The GRE is a reflection of how well you can do on the GRE. It is not a reflection of how smart you are, no matter what ETS would like you to think"

 

I don't believe that GRE scores are directly in line with GPAs, but I've been coming on GradCafe for a while and most of the people who have been accepted to great programs who have great credentials got 160+ on one or both verbal and quantitative. I agree that the GRE is pointless and it shouldn't rule people out who have otherwise great credentials, but more people with great credentials have high GRE scores than low ones. And I don't really see the relevance of the anxiety argument. If you have a 3.9+ GPA, even if you've only taken a handful of tests in your college career, you still had times when you were put on the spot. You've had in-class writing assignments, midterms/final exams, and other projects/assignments that were major parts of your grade. Did you never get nervous? I know people who do get nervous when they take tests. It is a real thing. I used to tutor this one girl and she would ace every practice test, but when it got time to take the real thing she would freeze up and get everything wrong. Her GPA was in the low 2.0's. She was a smart girl but her nerves got the better of her. But if you have a 3.9+ I doubt test anxiety has been a major issue for you. I think it's more of a lack of preparation. You have to prepare for the GRE. Lots of people see it as pointless and refuse to put effort into it. That's what I did. But when I actually tried I got the hang of it. 

[VioletAyame]

Well, if we think that way then almost everyone's education fails them since almost everyone has to prepare for the GRE after going through all the Undergraduate work and the Undergraduate work doesn't prepare anyone for the GRE.

 

But I think this way of looking at things is to reverse the importance of academic work vis-a-vis the GRE.

 

The point is that the aim of the Undergraduate education is not to prepare the students for the GRE. It's to prepare them for Graduate school. It's the Graduate education that is in focus here, not the GRE.

 

Ideally, GRE should not be there at all since it is no test of research skills needed at Graduate school.

 

GRE is essentially a dispensable filtering mechanism developed to screen candidates out of the Graduate school - and there is really no logic why the GRE should be an index of this filter. It is essentially an expensive nuisance as far as Graduate research is concerned. GRE has nothing to do with Graduate Research.

 

I agree that GRE is expensive and troublesome, and ETS is a terrible monopoly, but I don't think it's fair to say the test measures nothing. It's true that it's not really a test of research skills, but a lot of people applying for grad schools for the first time like myself would have little to none research skills to speak of. How can we be tested on something we haven't been taught? I take it as more of an aptitude test, as in how likely one is able to succeed in grad school. Now how accurate this measurement is is open to debate, but at least for me it did test critical thinking, reading apprehension, and basic analytical and math skills. The vocab list is a bit ridiculous, but other than that, I don't think there's anything outrageous about the test that makes it essentially useless.

 

Any test is of course flawed in some ways, and there's always a bit of "testing the ability of taking the test" instead of whatever the aim of the test is, but being flawed is different than being completely invalid. And due to test anxiety, it won't be fair for everyone, but nothing in life or in the application is. Also, I think Loric was referring to the test taking skill in general, not the specific GRE-taking skill. And even though it's not necessarily any school's failing to prepare you to take test well, test taking is still a useful skill to have, just like doing presentation or debate skill. Is it a failure of the school if they didn't prepare you for that? Not necessarily. Would it be better if they did? Absolutely.