Seriously?

[Quantum Buckyball]

I'm not sure if I should feel insulted or not because I just found out someone from my cohort class got accepted to my program with UG 2.8 GPA, M 3.0 GPA, 1100 GRE (on the old scale), no publications/internships/fellowships/industrial experiences and failed all the ACS diagnostic exams.

 

If the admission process was truly merit-based, then an applicant with that kind of porfolio should never gotten accepted in the first place  . 

[DropTheBase]

If the applicant had stellar recommendation letters and an SOP that demonstrated an ability to write coherently and concisely, I'd accept him/her in a heartbeat. 

 

That being said, the admissions process gets it wrong sometimes, even for admits with high stats. We all have someone from our cohort in mind!

 

DTB

[Quantum Buckyball]

If the applicant had stellar recommendation letters and an SOP that demonstrated an ability to write coherently and concisely, I'd accept him/her in a heartbeat. 

 

That being said, the admissions process gets it wrong sometimes, even for admits with high stats. We all have someone from our cohort in mind!

 

DTB

To my knowledge, he only applied to my program because he couldn't find a decent job with a Masters so it was a last minute thing. Now, he's telling people (mainly undergrads) that how easy it was for him to get accepted to my program for PhD.

[St Andrews Lynx]

There's no guarantee that somebody with a 4.0 UG GPA, publications, immaculate GRE scores and a fellowship would actually succeed in a PhD program, though. In fact I've seen people with those sort of stats get passed over for their top choice research group, because their research abilities just didn't cut it. 

 

If they've got a Masters then that means they will have some academic research experience, surely? For all you know they did a damn good job on their research project, even if it didn't lead to a publication. Or you've not heard the full story (maybe they had major health problems whilst in undergrad).

 

I don't think there's any need to be snobbish or bitch about somebody else's prior record and how your stats are better than their stats.  

[Quantum Buckyball]

There's no guarantee that somebody with a 4.0 UG GPA, publications, immaculate GRE scores and a fellowship would actually succeed in a PhD program, though. In fact I've seen people with those sort of stats get passed over for their top choice research group, because their research abilities just didn't cut it. 

 

If they've got a Masters then that means they will have some academic research experience, surely? For all you know they did a damn good job on their research project, even if it didn't lead to a publication. Or you've not heard the full story (maybe they had major health problems whilst in undergrad).

 

I don't think there's any need to be snobbish or bitch about somebody else's prior record and how your stats are better than their stats.

I was upset because he was telling people how easy it was for him to get accepted to my program (not division). He's in a different division, and the admission process is different. For my division, it was very competitive, I would say that everyone got accepted to my division all had some sort of scholarships/fellowships/publications/internships. In the end, when people look at your diploma they only see the name of the school you graduated from and not necessary which division you were in.

Anyways, the admission committee realized some people were using this as a loop-hole to get acceptance letters, but I'm not sure how they would resolve the problem though.

[St Andrews Lynx]

...Why is this a problem? What does it have to do with you?

[Quantum Buckyball]

...Why is this a problem? What does it have to do with you?

Because I got assigned to the same projects as him and now I have to carry most of the weight -.-. In addition, it wasn't just me. Some of my peers (upper-class) in my division also agreed that most of the people from the division he's in are very incompetent (i.e. lack of critical thinking skills, creativity) which could make the program, as a whole, and the school look real bad.

[St Andrews Lynx]

I wouldn't worry about the reputation of your school - I'm sure it can take care of itself. 

 

Talk to the individual and make your expectations clear for working jointly on projects. Help him out by discussing strategies for thinking critically about problems (treat somebody like a lost cause...and they usually end up acting like a lost cause) - everybody had to start from scratch at some point. If he's really problematic then talk to the PI and suggest that with the individual's lack of experience he could benefit from working with a more senior group member/post doc. 

[Quantum Buckyball]

I wouldn't worry about the reputation of your school - I'm sure it can take care of itself. 

 

Talk to the individual and make your expectations clear for working jointly on projects. Help him out by discussing strategies for thinking critically about problems (treat somebody like a lost cause...and they usually end up acting like a lost cause) - everybody had to start from scratch at some point. If he's really problematic then talk to the PI and suggest that with the individual's lack of experience he could benefit from working with a more senior group member/post doc.

My PI is fully aware that I have a very strong personality (the pre-med gunner mentality), and I will most likely take over the whole project myself. The problem is that I have tried to get my colleague to participate in designing experiments which could lead to a paper, brainstorming for new ideas and novel techniques and assays etc. So far, it hasn't worked out as I wanted. I think he/she could be an excellent lab technician but doesn't have "it" to become a legit, whole-package researcher.

[Eigen]

Getting admitted is only a small part of the PhD. 

 

It won't damage the school's rep unless the faculty actually feel some obligation to graduate him/her with a PhD with sub-par work. 

 

It's also possible if they applied yet that your school had openings/funding and didn't have enough people on the waitlist late season. It happens. 

 

Or, as has been mentioned, there's something else about him/her that makes them a good candidate that doesn't show up in "scores". 

[St Andrews Lynx]

My PI is fully aware that I have a very strong personality (the pre-med gunner mentality), and I will most likely take over the whole project myself. 

That's not necessarily a good thing. 

Of course you want to get the project moving...but you will also look bad in the eyes of your PI if you aren't seen to "work well with others", or come across as arrogant & aloof towards fellow group members.

 

Nor is it necessarily fair to say that somebody would be best suited to a lab technician role, when it doesn't sound like they've been given much of a shot at independent "legitimate" research. 

 

It takes more than 1 or 2 brainstorming sessions to turn someone into an independent scientist. You might have to take a step down and say "We are going to vary X, Y, Z variables because ___. Then to make a good publication we need to prove that __ happens. Here are some good reviews on the area we're looking at." Then delegate work so you aren't dominating the project. Respect their input and ideas, even if their first "interpretations" are way off base, be polite in explaining why to encourage them to keep contributing intellectually. 

 

I don't see why this has to be a disaster, just because their stats aren't as good as yours.

[CHM GIRL]

I got admitted for a Master's then found out people with lower stats than me got into the PhD program. To say the least, I am switching schools. Admissions is very complicated and makes no sense. My divison had no PhD spots open, but the others had lots.

[Eigen]

I got admitted for a Master's then found out people with lower stats than me got into the PhD program. To say the least, I am switching schools. Admissions is very complicated and makes no sense. My divison had no PhD spots open, but the others had lots.

 

There are, as have been said, a lot of reasons why this might be the case. 

 

Stats are a very small part of the process. Maybe those people with lower stats had stellar recommendations, did better on interviews, or really fit with a PI that sponsored them. 

[Istoleart]

There are, as have been said, a lot of reasons why this might be the case.

Stats are a very small part of the process. Maybe those people with lower stats had stellar recommendations, did better on interviews, or really fit with a PI that sponsored them.

I concur. It's a bit premature to judge whether the applicant deserves to be there or not. Maybe the person is a hardworker and just had a rough time with undergraduate classes and tests. I think what would anger me are students that gets into the program and just doesn't work. I've seen students that had excellent Stats but puts in only a few hours of work every week.

[Quantum Buckyball]

I concur. It's a bit premature to judge whether the applicant deserves to be there or not. Maybe the person is a hardworker and just had a rough time with undergraduate classes and tests. I think what would anger me are students that gets into the program and just doesn't work. I've seen students that had excellent Stats but puts in only a few hours of work every week.

 

I assumed the person had a comparable background as me since 2012, I did not know about his stats until recently. I started having a doubt about his credentials about six months ago because of his poor performance (Q&As) during group meetings and working on the same group project for a class. My PI has assigned 2 undergrads to him/her to help his/her project progress faster, but both of them quit after about 2 weeks. Yes, I agreed that he/she is a hard worker but that is expected for all grad students. His/her research committee decided to make him/her to give his/her research proposal a semester early for some reasons, whereas my other colleagues and I were given roughly 12 months to prepare for it.

[prolixity]

oh please.  I had the best stats ever, got into the highest ranked programs in my field, and I'm still struggling.  Get over it.  This person will either transform into an excellent scientist or master out.  It's none of your concern.

[aberrant]

Yes, I agreed that he/she is a hard worker but that is expected for all grad students.

 

Hah! That maybe true in your field, your program, and your school, but that is definitely not expected for all grad students (I can start an essay and whine about individuals that I know).

 

I had a similar experience as yours, yet, instead of thinking "this person is gonna give my school a bad name, and depreciate the value of my PhD degree", I was simply thinking "why the hell this person is here" and "this person comes to grad school for all the wrong reasons".

 

After sharing my thoughts with some friends of mine, I no longer bothered by this person, all because of 1 thing and 1 thing only -- if this person doesn't have what it takes to get a PhD, this person will get kick out anyway, whether it be the lab or the program).

 

TL;DR -- ain't got no time for these insiginificant things but my research

[Quantum Buckyball]

Hah! That maybe true in your field, your program, and your school, but that is definitely not expected for all grad students (I can start an essay and whine about individuals that I know).

 

I had a similar experience as yours, yet, instead of thinking "this person is gonna give my school a bad name, and depreciate the value of my PhD degree", I was simply thinking "why the hell this person is here" and "this person comes to grad school for all the wrong reasons".

 

After sharing my thoughts with some friends of mine, I no longer bothered by this person, all because of 1 thing and 1 thing only -- if this person doesn't have what it takes to get a PhD, this person will get kick out anyway, whether it be the lab or the program).

 

TL;DR -- ain't got no time for these insiginificant things but my research

 

Yeah I totally agreed with you. I have learned to tell myself that  "it ain't my problem" since I started the program last year . I just thought it was funny that he/she kept telling people from other groups that his/her research project will lead to a publication in Nature or Science.... 

[geographyrocks]

Who knows how they admit people in his particular division, but I do have a story about a person who was going around bragging about being admitted as a Masters student in the department I'm in. 

I thought to myself, how strange seeing as this person has under a 3.0 and no research experience.  When I was talking to the graduate advisor, I found out why he was admitted: everyone was admitted.  The program is is brand-new so they were basically forced to admit students they didn't want to. 

 

It is pretty easy to get frustrated when you work your butt off to get in while other people just seem to coast in...especially if that coaster is a know-it-all braggart.