Harvard vs Vanderbilt: Higher Ed Masters

[chigirl2014]

Okay, so I have really been struggling to decided what I will do if this happens.  Vanderbilt has been my number one for a while, but I applied to Harvard on a whim and it looks like I will probably get in.

 

For me, its basically the program at Vanderbilt versus the networking at Harvard.  I just graduated college and have not had any jobs in higher ed.  Vanderbilt's program (ranked #4) is two years, will give me a built in internship, and teach me how to do the jobs I am interested in. Harvard's program (ranked #10) is only one year, does not have a built in internship, but has great networking and they will help you get a job when you graduate. Also... it's Harvard.

 

In addition, I know that in Boston there are more schools that I could work at so the networking might serve me better.  But, I know for a fact that I do not want to live or work in Boston (aside from the year I might spend at Harvard).  Ideally, I would want to work at a school more in the midwest or south or basically anywhere outside of Massachusetts (already lived there for a year... did not like it at all).

 

Help me! 

[HigherEd Grad]

I have also been tossing and turning at the possibility of having to make this decision! I've been accepted to Vanderbilt, and I'm just waiting on Harvard. I know it's not guaranteed that I will get in, but I can't help but think of all the possibilities. I also am applying for the masters programs in Higher Education, so I've been looking at all the rankings as well. I love the program at Vanderbilt but, like you said, it's Harvard...

 

Are you going to Vanderbilt's visit days next weekend? I'm hoping that will give me more material for my pros and cons list. If I get into Harvard, I'll definitely go to theirs too before making any decision. I really think seeing the campus in person and meeting the students and faculty will make the decision clear for me.

[chigirl2014]

Yes, I'll be at Vanderbilt's visit days.  I'm thinking a lot of how I feel will come down to what they have to say about their internship program and the percent of people with jobs after 3 months out of the program. (Because I know Harvard is like 99% and Northwestern is 90%).

 

If I get into Harvard I'll go to those visit days as well.  It looks like we are in the exact same position.  So stressful. I'm bad at making these big decisions.  As least there is no bad choice here.

[hesadork]

The rankings you cite are NOT for the master's programs...they are doctoral. There is a difference. Do not let this factor into your calculus.

Based on your background and level of experience, I think Vandy is the better choice. How do the cost of the two options compare?

[chigirl2014]

Cost isn't really an issue.  Although Vanderbilt gave me a good amount of money as a "dean's scholarship."  I haven't heard from Harvard so I don't know about that yet.

[HGSEstudent]

I am someone in the Higher Ed program at Harvard, and of our cohort of 40, only 2 do not have internships. Both of these students made the choice not to have an internship.

 

The biggest deciding factor for me was that I wanted to graduate with the least amount of debt. I also got into Vandy with a 2/3 scholarship, but after factoring in the opportunity cost of being out of work for an additional year, it was far cheaper for me to attend HGSE. 

 

Best of luck this application season!

[chigirl2014]

Thanks for that information!  Guess I just have to wait and see if I get in and then stress some more about what to do...

[TinOhSu]

Hi chigirl2014, I'm in a similar situation, accepted to Vandy's IEPM program with the Dean's scholarship, but still waiting on Harvard amongst others in order to make the final decision. I'll also be attending visiting days, and happen to be from Chicago too, so maybe we will meet one of these days. Good luck!

[chigirl2014]

Haha seems likely TinOhSu if we both end up visiting Vanderbilt and Harvard! 

[HigherEd Grad]

I don't know how your experiences were, but I basically fell in love with Vanderbilt over the visit weekend. I am going to have some serious thinking to do if I get into Harvard as well.

[chigirl2014]

HigherEd, after that visit I would honestly say yes to vanderbilt in an instant. The program seems amazing, I love that there is a whole campus for Peabody (unlike other schools with only one building), and the people were so nice. Also the fact that they have a 95% job placement rate after 3 months makes the networking at Harvard less of an issue because vandy seems to have great networking at well!

However... My parents are telling me not to make any decisions until I hear from Harvard and that it's impossible to turn down Harvard. As much as I love vanderbilt, I don't think they will let me go to Nashville if I get into Harvard. I am so stressed now and don't know what to do if this happens. Is it bad that I want harvard to reject me so this decision is easier?

[HigherEd Grad]

However... My parents are telling me not to make any decisions until I hear from Harvard and that it's impossible to turn down Harvard. As much as I love vanderbilt, I don't think they will let me go to Nashville if I get into Harvard. I am so stressed now and don't know what to do if this happens. Is it bad that I want harvard to reject me so this decision is easier?

 

I am literally in the same exact position as you! My parents are the same way. I do want to wait until I hear back from Harvard though, before making any decisions. However, I just can't stop thinking about Vanderbilt! I guess the only thing to do now is just wait. And no matter what happens, we know for sure we will end up at a school we love.. so there's the silver lining I guess!

[JackOfStyle]

I am literally in the same exact position as you! My parents are the same way. I do want to wait until I hear back from Harvard though, before making any decisions. However, I just can't stop thinking about Vanderbilt! I guess the only thing to do now is just wait. And no matter what happens, we know for sure we will end up at a school we love.. so there's the silver lining I guess!

With a decision as huge as graduate school, remember it's you and not your parents who will be pouring your sweat, blood, tears, and years into it. I'm sure they mean well, but sometimes people hear the name "Harvard" and can't think beyond it. If you loved Vanderbilt more, then go! Just tell them it's the "Harvard of the South."

[HigherEd Grad]

With a decision as huge as graduate school, remember it's you and not your parents who will be pouring your sweat, blood, tears, and years into it. I'm sure they mean well, but sometimes people hear the name "Harvard" and can't think beyond it. If you loved Vanderbilt more, then go! Just tell them it's the "Harvard of the South."

 

I know, I completely agree.. Right now, I have only received information/visited Vanderbilt so I'm just going to wait until I get information from both schools (if I get in) before making my decision. That way I can make the most informed decision because it is such a big decision.

[chigirl2014]

I know that ultimately this will be my choice. But my parents are funding it. And I do respect their opinions when they say that Harvard on a résumé is something that very few people have. I don't know....

[birdy-bear]

chigirl2014, I fell in love with Vanderbilt this weekend as well! If networking was your biggest concern, I'm guessing this weekend put your mind at ease. For any lurkers who weren't able to attend, there was a 30-minute segment on Peabody Career Services in which a man named Jeff, reminiscent of a motivational speaker, sung the praises of Vandy's networking and career launching abilities. Essentially, Vandy has tentacles in every nook and cranny of the U.S. (and possibly, it seems, the world) and is dedicated to hooking you up with alumni in your areas of interest.

 

Maybe I can offer a unique perspective as a Harvard alumni attending Vanderbilt this year. If HGSE offered a Masters degree in my field, I'd still opt for Vanderbilt. Don't get me wrong--HGSE is an excellent institution--but it's not without drawbacks. I had several close friends completing Masters degrees at HGSE; my overall impression was that they were squeezing 2-3 year programs down into 1 year, primarily because the funding for Masters students stinks and HGSE doesn't think people will pay the big bucks with zero-to-limited funding for two whole years. It's a smart option if finances are a big concern, as HGSEstudent pointed out, but it does a terrible disservice to its students. My friends were stressed to the max, working their butts off, and were still unable to keep up with the workload. Additionally, invaluable classes were left off or squished together in their syllabi in the interest of time. I'm interested in an M.Ed. more for the pursuit of education than the promise of a paycheck, so I can't begin to imagine what learning you'll miss out on condensing two years down to one. 

 

It seemed clear in your first post that you feel a better fit with Vanderbilt's program but are stuck in the name recognition Harvard has. Remember that in the field of education, Vandy has at least as much (if not more) clout with researchers and working professionals. And besides that, it's not the name recognition that will ultimately open doors... It may catch an employer's eye, but the door-opener will be the experiences you gain and connections you make participating in a program you're sincerely passionate about.

Edited February 26, 2014 by birdy-bear

[chigirl2014]

Thanks for that Birdy-Bear. I really do agree with everything you said. I have a lot of hesitations about Harvard from the program to going back to Boston (I lived there for a year and hated it).

It's funny because I feel like I'm coming off as an elitist who only wants a school for the name--when that so is not me. I could honestly care less about that. And my parents aren't pushing harvard because it's harvard (my dad went to Princeton so he actually hates harvard). I think they genuinely feel that choosing harvard will be better for me career-wise.

Because that's the case and I know they feel that way is the reason this gives me so much stress.

[RedPill]

A couple points,

 

I have heard Vandy is very generous with funding. After carefully analyzing the CVs of higher ed faculty at the top 10-12 programs... I find Vanderbilt is pretty good for those wanting to stay in academia. That's a subjective opinion, but I did this "search" a while ago. I use to have an excel sheet that literally calculated the year faculty member got their degree(s) and where they went, but I apparently deleted it. 

 

The thing with higher ed(may or may not be true with other ed professions) is Stanford and Harvard do their own thing. Rankings aside, you'll find PLENTY of Stanford/Harvard PhDs serving on faculties at Vanderbilt and elsewhere. They're GREAT programs that may or may not be more difficult to get into than the higher ranked programs like Michigan, UGA, MSU, Vandy etc. (I don't have acceptance rates, so I can't say.)

 

The rankings may be for doctoral programs, but this isn't undergrad. The reputation will likely carry on to masters as well. The one thing you need to be on the look out for is programs who use their masters cohort as a money maker. Faculty may focus more on the PhD students not because the MAs are no good, but because the PhD students are PhD students. I have actually heard from a higher ed faculty member that attending S or H or Penn over (insert really great state school with a higher ranked higher ed program here) will actually broaden your net of opportunities. 

 

That being said, Harvard. (Note, I'm applying to Harvard and Vanderbilt. Given the information I see here, I say Harvard.)

 

 

That being said also, go wherever you pay least. Higher ed degrees, by on large, have a low ROI. 

Edited March 1, 2014 by RedPill

[hesadork]

I advocated for Vandy above because you have no HE experience, are right out of UG and don't want to land in the northeast.  A two year program will give you more seasoning (and meaningful work experience) than a one-year program, which will be a boon for your employment prospects.  And even schools with national reputations tend to place regionally in this field for a variety of reasons.  If you were 3-5 years out the calculus would be different.

 

Re rankings/reputation: most hiring managers for low-/mid-level HE jobs (ie, the kinds of jobs OP and many recent master's grads are eligible for) do not follow the rankings year-to-year and may have only a vague sense of who's higher than who at any particular point in time.  And just as many folks in the midwest and southeast will be inclined to write off Harvard as "New England fancy" as will be inclined to be knocked out by the university's general reputation.

 

Point is -- these are professional credentials.  You are far better off focusing on cost, length of program, access to internships and region where you want to end up than on your perception of the "name" of the school.

[tdix09]

So I am/was in a similar situation between UPenn and Michigan State. Accepted by both but Penn is a one year program like Harvard. Their assistantships do not come with a tuition waiver and I received $10k scholarship. Which is awesome, but not awesome enough to take out loans for a program that a lot of other places will pay for.

 

The biggest drawback I've heard about Penn's program (aside from cost) is their grads don't have an easy time finding work. One year programs leaves less time to gain experience, which as a recent grad, you'd certainly want and need. Also, I think one year programs like Harvard and Penn, are

• better fit for older students/career changers (so they can get back into the field, which is why maybe those 2 students HGSEstudent mentioned chose not to have an internship, because they have sufficient work exp)
• gearing its cohort for doctoral work, which at 21-22, I doubt you're considering, especially if you are pursuing HE/SA.

 

The ones who DO find work, Im told don't have their pick of the litter in the same, so to speak. HGSEStudent, of course your experience as a student holds weight, but the feedback I've gotten are from SA professionals at other schools,

 

Also, you say money isn't an issue, but seriously, find somewhere that will pay for it. Lastly, there's always doctoral work to receive a Harvard degree. That's what I'm telling myself as I (unfortunately) turn Penn down.

[chigirl2014]

Thanks everyone for all of the input so far.  I really appreciate it and welcome any more advice that people might have.  I think that the biggest factors in making this decision are the things that the schools won't give me a straight answer on.  

 

I know that both have job placement rates around 95% after three months of graduating.  But does this mean 95% get their first choice job or are even placed at a job within their desired field?... who knows because it isn't info that they are giving out.  

 

Also, would the internship I might do be in Vanderbilt/Harvard's admissions office or in a random school in the area? Also something I don't know because their are no promises or guarantees.  

 

For now I guess I will just eat some sour candy and watch ghost hunters until Harvard decides to grace us humans with their admissions decisions.

[ZeChocMoose]

I believe you said costs are not a concern so I would recommend a longer program. Two year programs give you more time to build up experience as some hiring managers will equate a 20 hr position for a year as six months of full time experience.  Two year programs will also give you more time to explore your interests than shorter programs.  I know I changed directions from what I wanted to do in my first year to what I wanted to do in my second year in my master's program.  I also don't recommend one year programs to people with zero to limited full-time professional experience (1 - 2 yrs) in the field.

 

You also want to think about where you want to live when you graduate.  Schools have much better networks in their local areas compared to non-local areas.

 

And pay attention to when you visit both programs.  More than reputation - you want to be able to like or at the very least be able to work well with your classmates.  Your classmates will be important because they will also serve as your network for the future.  You also want to pay attention to the student-faculty interactions at both schools.  Do the faculty seem to know the students?  Do you think they will be good mentors to you?

 

For placement rates - you want to know the placement rates in your subfield.  How well do they do in placing students in your subfield of interest?  What are the opportunities to get experience in your subfield of interest?  This is key - higher ed as a field values experience more than reputation.

 

In my own work life, I have seen graduates from these programs get thrown out in the hiring process because they don't have the necessary experience compared to graduates at lesser known schools with sufficient experience.  Don't bank on name of the school alone in securing you a job.  You really need to make sure that these programs will provide you with the necessary experience to be competitive for the jobs that you want when you graduate.

 

Good luck!

[Red Eye]

To tdix09. Which schools offer to pay at the Master's level? I am aware of schools that pay at the doctorate level, but not at the masters. Not paying, unfortunately, has to be priority number one for me! Thanks.

[SCGH]

What did you decide?

[JBums1028]

To tdix09. Which schools offer to pay at the Master's level? I am aware of schools that pay at the doctorate level, but not at the masters. Not paying, unfortunately, has to be priority number one for me! Thanks.

 

Student Affairs focused programs usually offer assistantships that will pay tuition and a modest stipend. Some require it (Bowling Green, UConn, etc) so that means everyone who is admitted will have a GA position. Others don't require it, but usually most if not all their students will have one (i.e. MSU). Unfortunately, more generalist Higher Ed programs usually don't offer this because, as you said, they reserve funding for their PhD students. Some might offer paid internships (i.e. U of M), but they don't include tuition assistance. I'm pretty sure the two the OP has listed fall into this category.