Dear 2015 applicants, here is what we have learned from the 2014 season

[Edit_Undo]

Did anyone say sausage with eggs? Got it? 'eggs' rhymes with 'legs'. 

 

[ianfaircloud]

How did this thread get "pinned"? Is it "pinned" for everyone, or did I do something so that it is pinned for me?

[dgswaim]

How did this thread get "pinned"? Is it "pinned" for everyone, or did I do something so that it is pinned for me?

"Pinned" for me, too. I don't know how or why.

[MattDest]

I'm guessing a mod pinned it. 

[Neither Here Nor There]

Hey I'm from the Religion page and I noticed that you were having some disagreements on the importance of the GRE. I had some experience with this in my application process that I thought you would find helpful.

I wanted to be a minister when I was an undergraduate. I went to seminary and decided I wanted to study religion professionally instead. So I have an MA from a seminary and I applied for five MAs in Departments of Religion or similar programs this season. Anyway, like I said I wasn't focused on academics, so my GPA wasn't fantastic (3.25). I emailed top programs in my field and said something like, 'My undergrad GPA isn't great, if I kick ass on the GRE can I make up for that.' Duke, for one, told me that the GRE is weighted higher than the undergraduate GPA. Emory told me not to worry about my undergraduate GPA at all if my GRE was strong. I scored 169/156/5.0 on my GRE and I got accepted to MAs at Duke, Wake Forest, and the University of Minnesota.

I'm not saying my GRE is what got me in. I have a 3.9 GPA in my seminary MA, four years in Greek, three in Hebrew, good LOR, and a strong writing sample. The moral of the story, the point I'm trying to get across, is that you shouldn't be afraid to ask your programs if you have questions. I scored poorly on Q. I expected to score 162 but I got nervous and choked. Since my V score was ridiculous I never retook the test. But I'm curious if raising my Q to 162-163 would seriously help my chances to get into a top PhD. Given my experience with emailing programs this season, I plan to just email some of my top choices and ask them.

 

If your writing sample was good, and you had a 3.9 GPA in seminary, and all those languages, that is a pretty strong applicant.  There is also a difference between having a 3.25 GPA over all, and a 3.25 GPA in your undergrad major.

[hopefulpessimiste]

Adding my own take to this, in case anyone finds it helpful! I certainly don't know if I'm qualified to be giving advice given that this is my first time applying to PhD programs and I'm not exactly tripping over accetpances. Nevertheless, here a few thoughts:

 

1) Cultivate relationships with profs. I did not plan on pursuing philosophy during half of my time in undergrad (I was a double major in philosophy and in biochem), but I frequently went to office hours. When I did decide to apply to MA programs, I had a number of professors in the field who knew me well both as a philosophy student and as an individual. I got into to four out of the five MA programs to which I applied.

 

I relied on these relationships so much over the course of my studies, not only for the pragmatic benefits, but also for the wisdom, advice, and suppport of my professors. I think I had strong letters as a result.

 

2) Apply only to programs to which you would actually want to attend. This may seem like a strange point, especially given the odds, but I applied to only those programs where I thought I would be both happy and successful.  I absolutely do not think of the idea "safety schools" applies to doctoral applications.

 

3) Force yourself to leave the house during at least SOME of the time you are waiting for responses from schools. I can't even count the number of days I felt hopeless and miserable before I heard, and even moreso when I got my first few rejections. But I dragged myself outside every so often, and being in the world made a big difference. Distraction is key.

 

Good luck to everyone!

[Edit_Undo]

I have learned that undergrad publications, conferences (even organizing them), and teaching experience probably do not matter at all.

[ianfaircloud]

This may have already been said: Some of the applications take much longer than I anticipated (e.g. MIT). For this reason, do every application at least one day in advance. Also, some schools (e.g. Penn) want a writing sample by mail, by the deadline. (Penn didn't tell us this on the application. I believe that we were notified only after starting the application.)

[primenumbers]

I would say that the biggest thing that I learned is that this process is completely, utterly, unpredictable.  I have a lower-than-average GPA, great GRE's (all >95th % except writing), never got any feedback on my writing sample from a philosopher, went to a mediocre undergrad-only liberal arts school, had a letter from someone who taught for a few years then quit philosophy, and never let anyone read my SOP.  I'm a white, upper-middle class student whose family as all been to college.  I just really love what I study, and I think that came out in my application.  I got 5 PhD acceptances (2 top 20, 3 top 21-50) and a masters acceptance.  You shouldn't sell your chances short based on your situation, nor should you assume you will get in anywhere.

 

One thing that I think helped me that won't help you next year, but might help younger students, is that I was able to study abroad at a prestigious school in philosophy and got a letter from there.  I think that gave me a bit of extra legitimacy for grad programs!  

[MattDest]

I would say that the biggest thing that I learned is that this process is completely, utterly, unpredictable.  I have a lower-than-average GPA, great GRE's (all >95th % except writing), never got any feedback on my writing sample from a philosopher, went to a mediocre undergrad-only liberal arts school, had a letter from someone who taught for a few years then quit philosophy, and never let anyone read my SOP.  I'm a white, upper-middle class student whose family as all been to college.  I just really love what I study, and I think that came out in my application.  I got 5 PhD acceptances (2 top 20, 3 top 21-50) and a masters acceptance.  You shouldn't sell your chances short based on your situation, nor should you assume you will get in anywhere.

 

One thing that I think helped me that won't help you next year, but might help younger students, is that I was able to study abroad at a prestigious school in philosophy and got a letter from there.  I think that gave me a bit of extra legitimacy for grad programs!  

 

Great to hear about your success. I don't know that this would separate you from others on this forum. I think we all love what we're studying (at least, most of the time), otherwise we'd be doing something else. We're not in it for the job prospects, at least. 

[dgswaim]

Great to hear about your success. I don't know that this would separate you from others on this forum. I think we all love what we're studying (at least, most of the time), otherwise we'd be doing something else. We're not in it for the job prospects, at least. 

I got into it for the ladies. 

[primenumbers]

Great to hear about your success. I don't know that this would separate you from others on this forum. I think we all love what we're studying (at least, most of the time), otherwise we'd be doing something else. We're not in it for the job prospects, at least. 

Thanks!  I'm not saying that I am alone in loving philosophy.  I think that because I haven't had the most favorable of philosophical conditions in my undergrad, I was possibly able to emphasize how much independent work I had to do to get where I am.  I also think that my subject area (formal stuff, I'm a math/philosophy double major for my undergrad) may have also helped, but I am not really sure...  It is all in how it comes out on the application, and I think that might have been what helped me out so much.  In any case, I am really grateful for how well this process has gone for me!

[zblaesi]

I've been wanting to add to this thread for a while now. I was lucky enough to not be completely shut out this application season, but I definitely didn't do as well as I hoped. These are my random thoughts on the application process.

 

A. Being awesome

 

I notice that many philosophy students are fairly timid. But I believe it is ultimately advantageous to stand out in a philosophy department socially as well as academically. I would hang out in the lounge of the philosophy building as often as possible. I became a familiar presence among the graduate students. I would attend department events and colloquia. I would sit in on grad courses. I would strive to speak up in class, even when I believed what I had to say is dumb. I attended office hours occasionally, but doing so frequently is preferable. In any case, the goal is to start a reputation for yourself and to get the faculty to realize how excited you are about the department. Making a presence at nearby departments is also a wise idea, especially if you plan to apply to those departments. (For example: I attended a talk at CUNY. One of my letter-writers saw me there. I imagine that helped him write a better letter for me.)

 

Looking back, I wish I had been more involved. I know an applicant who did very well this season. He held an officer position in his school's philosophy club and was a member of the committee for his school's undergraduate journal. He also co-founded a very successful undergraduate conference. This was more difficult in my case because NYU has fewer opportunities for undergraduate in the philosophy department. However, NYU's philosophy club was elusive for a couple semesters, and I wish I was more instrumental in reviving it.

 

I also think applicants who challenge themselves to take graduate courses and complete independent studies are at a bigger advantage. If I could go back and do it over, I would have taken as many graduate courses as possible. In my case, I took two graduate courses and completed an independent study. But I could have managed at least one more graduate course - I just didn't realize undergraduates were even eligible to take graduate courses until my third semester. I also think it is a good idea to consistently audit classes, especially when your letter-writers are teaching those courses. I sat in on a few sessions of a graduate course taught by Street, but I stopped going as my semester heated up. This definitely didn't help my letter.

 

When it comes to interacting with professors during office hours, I think can sometimes be important to be aggressive. For example, Stephen Schiffer is sometimes difficult to talk with. He uses very specific terminology, and if you don't share that terminology, communication can be difficult. There were times when I thought I was pushing an interesting point, but he had no idea what I was saying, so I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on to a new topic. I should have pushed my ideas with different words until we were on the same page. The point is, you want to show that you are a good philosophical thinker, and sometimes this means keeping a conversation alive until your interlocutor fully understands what you're saying. That, in turn, requires some confidence on your part.

 

B. Letters of recommendation

 

I had the major disadvantage of transferring into NYU - meaning I only had two years to find letter-writers. This hurt me, I think, because my letter-writers had much less time to get to know me. Robert Hopkins, for example, only knew me for a semester. His letter was based on my performance in his grad course. Since your letters are such an important part of your application, within your first two semesters, I think it is important to get an idea of which professors you would like to work with and start considering them for letters.

 

I asked my letter-writers how I could help them write the best possible letters. Different professors have different preferences. I provided Sharon Street with a ton of materials: my best work from her undergraduate course; my final paper for a course I took with Stephen Schiffer; a paper I wrote for a graduate course; a "brag sheet" with relevant information about my academic background; and transcripts from my previous college and NYU. Crispin Wright, on the other hand, said he "had all [he] needed" to write his letter, which consisted of experience with me inside and outside of class, as well as my writing sample.

 

C. Writing sample

 

I think one of the most important aspects of developing a good writing sample is finding the right adviser for you. My main adviser was amazing, but I feel (s)he encouraged me to move in the wrong directions. Stephen Schiffer, on the other hand, is much different to work with. He is very critical and will inform you if he thinks you're headed toward a dead end. In retrospect, I might have produced a better writing sample if I had spent more time working with Schiffer than my main adviser. This again illustrates the importance of interacting with faculty members as early as possible.

 

I believe that it is also important to ask which sorts of papers committees are looking for. Many gradcafe users (including myself) have offered to share their writing samples, so maybe something can be learned from this. In my case, I think I pursued a strategy that is not ideal for a writing sample. My writing sample involves a style of argumentation that is subtle in its execution and modest in its aims. I lay out evidence used to support a particular hypothesis, and then propose a new hypothesis for handling this evidence. The goal is to shift the burden of proof in a particular debate, to undermine a particular conclusion.

 

I get the feeling that many successful writing samples attempt something stronger and more noticeably philosophical. The strategy, which I'm sure is familiar to most of you, goes like this. Spend some time laying out a view, pointing out when some aspect of the argument is invalid, or when some premise is dubious, and boosting the argument into its strongest form. Next, attack one (and preferably more than one) of the argument's premises. Maybe find one last route for the argument, and object to that reformulation. Consider counter-objections. And then perhaps speculate on future work in the area before wrapping things up.

That's pretty vague, but I think my aesthetics paper fits the second mold more than the first, which is why I may have made a mistake in using my metaethics paper as my writing sample.

 

I was also given the following piece of advice from a graduate student at BU. As an undergraduate, it is very easy to target a specific philosopher. However, much of your work in graduate school is the product of locating a particular view or assumption across a body of literature. This information must be synthesized before you attack it or boost it. My writing sample focused on Richard Joyce specifically, but my paper may have looked stronger if I focused on error theorists across the board.

 

The takeaway point should be this: put time into considering what committees are even looking for before you decide what to research or what to write.

 

D. GRE

 

Assume it matters. My GRE scores are pretty bad. I think this probably hurt me. A lot. I was told mixed things about the GRE. Sharon Street told me no one cared that much about the GRE. A professor at CUNY told me committees expect high scores in at least one of the GRE sections. Who knows how much GRE scores factor into the process. But why take the risk?
 

In my case, I underestimated how hard the GRE would be for me. If I was smart, I would have started studying for the GRE back in community college and got it out of the way. You don't want to be worrying about high school level math while you're polishing your writing sample, mobilizing letters of recommendation, and tediously filling out your applications.

 

If I could go back in time, I would also consider getting tested for a learning disability. I missed a ton of class as a kid due to health issues, so I have issues with even basic arithmetic. This undoubtedly slows me down on standardized tests and puts me at a major disadvantage. If you think you are entitled to more time on a test, why not try to find a way to claim it?

 

E. Statements of purpose

 

It is very easy to leave your statements of purpose for the last minute. It is also easy to wonder what a statement of purpose is even supposed to do. However, I think it is easy to underestimate how important your statement of purpose can be. I was rejected from BU, my safety school, and I can't help but wonder if this is because I didn't seem like a prime candidate for BU specifically. I also think I got lucky and my statement of purpose made me seem like a good fit for UT-Austin, even though I decided to apply to UT last minute.

 

As a result, I believe it is a good idea to start working on your statements of purpose early and customize them to each school. This doesn't necessarily mean mentioning specific faculty, but rather highlighting certain aspects of your application and interests that appeal most to the specific department. This might mean emphasizing your interest in experimental philosophy for some schools and not others.

 

I wrote a generic statement of purpose, but I customized my final paragraph to certain schools. I don't know if this helped me or hurt me. UT received my generic statement of purpose, whereas UW-Madison received a statement of purpose with a custom paragraph at the end. I mentioned faculty at UW and how my research interests aligned me with those faculty. My policy was this: if I knew at least one faculty member really well, I would customize my final paragraph to that school.

 

(Note: for those interested, you can view my generic statement of purpose in my signature.)

 

F. Departments

 

I think it is a good idea to have a clear idea as to which departments are your top choice. Once you know this, you are in a position to start building relationships with faculty at those departments. In my case, I emailed professors specializing in metaethics and asked for feedback on my writing sample. You'd be surprised how willing professors are to help you out. Unfortunately, most of the faculty I targeted weren't even professors at my top choices. However, if you can get feedback while building a relationship at a department to which you're applying, that's preferable. So, for example, Michael Gill at Arizona read my writing sample, and we went back-and-forth through email on issues related to his work. I was ultimately rejected from Arizona, but if Michael Gill was on the committee, I know my email exchanges with him only helped my chances.

 

Finally, to reiterate what others have already mentioned: don't underestimate how tedious the actual application process can be. Make sure you start filling the applications out preemptively. You don't want to be rushing at the last minute.

 

Okay, that's all I got for now, but I might add more content as thoughts come to me.

Edited April 21, 2014 by zblaesi

[jjb919]

 

I asked my letter-writers how I could help them write the best possible letters. Different professors have different preferences. I provided Sharon Street with a ton of materials: my best work from her undergraduate course; my final paper for a course I took with Stephen Schiffer; a paper I wrote for a graduate course; a "brag sheet" with relevant information about my academic background; and transcripts from my previous college and NYU. Crispin Wright, on the other hand, said he "had all [he] needed" to write his letter, which consisted of experience with me inside and outside of class, as well as my writing sample.

 

This is excellent advice; when I asked my advisor to write me a letter of recommendation she told me to remind her when the time came closer with a packet of information: what classes I took with her, my term papers for those classes, my thesis, a list of academic achievements, conferences attended, a copy of my statement of purpose, etc. It is important for your letter writers to be on the same page with the way you present yourself, and the more information you give your letter writers, the more substantive recommendations they can write. Letters that say little more than "X was in my class ___. S/he did well." can be killers.

[mattyod86]

I haven't posted much on here, but I've benefited ALLOT from other peoples posts so I'll try give a little back. I applied to to six phd programs and was accepted into 1 in the top 40, rejected from the rest. If I had to go through the process again, I'd probably apply to a couple more.  People here have already mentioned researching the departments. If I were applying this year I'd contact the departments directly and ask about immanent faculty changes; I applied to two programs only to find out later that the faculty members that attracted me to these programs were on their way out the door.  As it turns out I didn't get into either, but, I might have had a better shot at one of the schools (UConn) where the outgoing faculty members were headed, however, I missed this opportunity because of inadequate research on my end.

 

Another thing that I wasn't that clued in about when applying was funding levels. Ian Faircloud's blog has a list of some of the fellowship/TAship amounts which is a useful starting point. If like me, you are applying from outside of the USA the financial side of things is particularly important because F1 student visas are quite restrictive, so, you want to make sure you can live off your stipend. Also, international students have to be able to prove that they can support themselves for the duration of their stay, I am not 100% certain but from what I can tell there are numerous top 50 and even some top 25/20 pgr schools that do not give substantial enough funding to satisfy this requirement. 

 

The last thing I want to mention is the writing sample. I was advised to use an old piece and rework it, I used a totally new one which might have made life a little harder than it needed to be.  Also, my topic was a bit narrow I think, it was about a particular argument against a particular kind of fictionalist approach to ontology.  If I were reapplying I would try and do a sample that any philosopher could pick up, read, and be interested in. I discussed this with my supervisor last month when it was looking like I might be shut out of admissions and he agreed.  People might disagree, but in my view the best approach to the writing sample is to keep it simple and avoid anything that looks like the latest philosophical fad. 

Anyway, best of luck to all those applying next time around,

p.s. Try submit your apps a day or two in advance because those online systems have a habit of getting sluggish and even crashing when it comes to the app deadline, five or six hours in front of a pc repeatedly clicking 'submit payment' is something you can do without!

[philstudent1991]

 

 If I were reapplying I would try and do a sample that any philosopher could pick up, read, and be interested in.

But of course, not even the greatest philosophers seem able to do this.

[dgswaim]

But of course, not even the greatest philosophers seem able to do this.

We are a rather scattered and choosy bunch.

[Hypatience]

OK, I'm just going to fire off some stuff! Feel free to ask questions if anything is unclear or to call me out if anything sounds false.

 

For background, I went to a decent ranked school for my BA (not a top 10 and not an Ivy), but I didn't really distinguish myself and my primary concentration wasn't philosophy. To compensate, I got an MA from a small, unranked program without a PhD, and when I applied out this season I ended up with some very good offers, some of which were at top five schools. So I feel like I have some good advice to give, since not a lot of my success is attributable to pedigree. A lot of it will apply more to people in MAs than to people finishing up BAs, but some of it will generalize. 

1. An MA is a great idea if you're not coming out of undergrad as a ready-made hyper-competitive candidate. It will train you up and (more importantly) buy you time to prepare your applications. Two year programs are good, otherwise you might need to take a year off to apply, since you probably won't be able to lock down stellar letters after just three or four months in a program. Obviously try to do a funded MA, if at all possible. If you're American, there are some good Canadian MAs that will fund you and you shouldn't write them off. (Pretty sure there are some funded American MAs as well.) It's probably better to apply as a weaker candidate with no MA than a stronger candidate with an MA that you had to go into debt for, unless it's Tufts or something, in which case do the calculus.
2. If you're Canadian and doing an MA, do apply for the MA SSHRC. You have to apply early, October or November the year before, but if you've missed your deadline you can still apply during the first year of a two-year MA to receive funding in your second year. Your school will probably claw most of the funding back (although mine didn't!) but in any case you'll end up with more money than you would have had otherwise. Plus, winning a SSHRC is a big deal and will open some doors for you. It will make it easier for you to win more external awards in the future (like the PhD SSHRC) and will definitely make you stand out as an applicant at good Canadian schools like UToronto.
3. Be really, really mercenary about your MA -- everything you do should somehow contribute to strengthening your applications package. Get feedback and assistance from as many faculty members as you can and listen to what they have to say. If you do this right, they will feel invested in your success and go out of their way to keep an eye on you. Mentorship like that is professionally valuable and also really personally fulfilling. 
4. Apply to conferences. Apply to all the conferences. Even (especially!) professional ones that seem out of your league. Every time you write a paper for one of your grad-level classes, submit it to every just-barely-plausibly-relevant conference. I did this and got a paper accepted to a conference that was way out of my league in the first year of my MA and it made a huge difference. Plus the social atmosphere at conferences is very cool and you'll end up amassing a great philosophical social network. I met senior grad students and junior, senior, and even superstar faculty, all of whom taught me so much and really filled out my idea of what academia was like. Even if you're the most junior person at a conference, don't be shy -- people will be impressed that you're there at all and they won't be judging you by the same standards they judge senior members of the profession. And for the most part they'll be delighted to offer you applications advice! I went to a couple of conferences the summer before I applied and I met more than one person who spontaneously offered to read my writing sample and told me to stay in touch.
5. If you're an undergrad at a school with a grad program, you should try to audit and even enrol in some grad-level classes. You might not have known you could even do this, but you totally can. Find the graduate course list and directly contact the professors teaching the courses you're interested in. This might be the most important piece of advice on my list! The undergrads I've seen who've placed in stellar programs are almost universally the ones who've been sitting in on or taking graduate seminars. If you're not at a school that offers graduate seminars, but you live in a big city, then try nearby schools. I've audited classes at a school I wasn't attending -- you just need to contact the professor and say you're interested in sitting in.
6. Attend departmental colloquia, talks, workshops, and other events, both at your school and at other schools in your area. Talk to people, even if it's just saying you enjoyed their talk and asking a clarificatory question.
7. Do the GREs early. Do them early enough that you can do them again if you have to. Make sure you at least get whatever the new-scale equivalent of a 700 is on both the verbal and the quant. I had a perfect verbal but my quant just barely broke that threshold -- the second time I wrote it. Not a great score, but it was evidently good enough.
8. Work on your writing sample like a demon. Start early the year before applying and submit it to summer conferences so that you can use the feedback you get to make it even better. If you've got an involved advisor, that's great -- my advisor probably read five drafts of mine, all counted. Get your peers to read it, too. Heck, just get as many people as you can to read it. This is the most important part of your application. 
9. Do really well in your classes. If you've got more than a handful of B's in philosophy courses, think about an MA.
10. Go to office hours. Ask professors to suggest additional readings on topics you're interested in, then go do those readings and follow up with them. You want letter writers who know you and who think you're driven.
11. If you're in an MA, professionalize. Have a CV and an academia.edu page. Don't go overboard and print business cards or post your papers online, but be somebody that people can google and find minimal information about.
12. Apply to at least 10 places if you can afford it. Heck, if you can afford it, apply to at least 20 places. I've seen people get shut out, people only get into one school out of fifteen, et cetera, everything you can imagine. 
13. This might be controversial advice, but prioritize applying to similarly-ranked public schools over Ivies if you're not coming from an Ivy League school yourself (or a top American school?). My pedigree isn't amazing and is foreign to boot and I did really well at most of the good non-Ivies while doing surprisingly poorly at almost all of the Ivies. Go figure! Sample size of one, though, so take with a grain of salt.
14. Don't do anything too special with your statement of purpose. I've heard top places hardly even look at these. Be really straightforward and professional. Say what areas you're interested in working on and briefly explain any related work you've done in the past. I didn't personalize mine at all and did very well. I even got accepted at one top school where my statement should have indicated I was an apocalyptically bad fit.
15. I get the sense that schools are into it if you know something about formal methods, or at least express an interest. Take advanced logic and do some formal semantics stuff if you can. Learn a bit of stats and gesture in your statement at hoping to be able to integrate empirical results into your future work (which is a good thing to want to do anyway, because it's cool). 
16. If you are wait listed and invited to visit, go to the visit. I've seen people on these boards say you'll only disenchant them or something, and, unless you're extraordinarily unlikeable in person, that is terrible advice. I visited schools where I was wait listed and subsequently accepted, and I was basically told explicitly at one of these schools that it was because students and faculty liked me enough to lobby for me to be taken off the list next. 
17. If you would rather attend a school you are wait listed at than the schools you have been accepted at, let the wait list school know that. I was invited to visit one school that I told this to just because I told them that. I think it's especially effective if the schools you're accepted at are ranked higher than or are comparable with the wait list school. If you can tell a school explicitly that you would rather go to their school than to top school X, this will matter to them. 
18. If you're a woman or another underrepresented minority, network with like people who have faced or are facing the same challenges. I'm a woman and reaching out to established women in the profession made a big difference for me -- they were often really helpful and supportive, and had great advice. And don't just reach up, but look to your peers as well. This year a bunch of women prospectives from thegradcafe created a hidden Facebook message thread to trade climate information in and it ended up being a really awesome hub of camaraderie and support. There were more than 30 of us! Women applying next season, I encourage you to do the same kind of thing!
19. Become an expert at scrutinizing job placement pages; once you're deciding between multiple offers this will matter a great deal.
20. Be nice and be positive to the people you meet and to your peers in your program. Be interested in them, read their work, and help them out. Chances are they'll do the same for you. Surround yourself with smart, hard-working people -- eventually it'll rub off.
21. Don't pay too much attention to the advice you get on gradcafe, including this advice. Rather, ask faculty at your school for advice, especially younger faculty who know what it's like out there.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Hypatience

[philstudent1991]

 

OK, I'm just going to fire off some stuff! Feel free to ask questions if anything is unclear or to call me out if anything sounds false.

 

1. This might be controversial advice, but prioritize applying to similarly-ranked public schools over Ivies if you're not coming from an Ivy League school yourself (or a top American school?). My pedigree isn't amazing and is foreign to boot and I did really well at most of the good non-Ivies while doing surprisingly poorly at almost all of the Ivies. Go figure! Sample size of one, though, so take with a grain of salt.

 

This whole thing was an awesome, awesome post. I do have a thought about this one tho. In one sense, similarly ranked schools are probably easier to get into than Ivy League schools just that name brand schools attract more applicants, so while I don't know for sure, I'd wager that Harvard, Stanford and Yale get more apps than Pitt, Michigan or even Rutgers, but I could be wrong on that. But here's what I do know: no one outside of philosophy cares about Leiter rankings. But almost anyone in the developed world will recognize an Ivy League degree. What if you don't end up in philosophy? Ivy League pedigree will be much shinier than Leiter pedigree, and even within philosophy I understand that some schools, especially SLACS, simply like to stock their faculty rosters with Ivy Leaguers because students and their parents recognize that as prestigious.

[Hypatience]

This whole thing was an awesome, awesome post. I do have a thought about this one tho. In one sense, similarly ranked schools are probably easier to get into than Ivy League schools just that name brand schools attract more applicants, so while I don't know for sure, I'd wager that Harvard, Stanford and Yale get more apps than Pitt, Michigan or even Rutgers, but I could be wrong on that. But here's what I do know: no one outside of philosophy cares about Leiter rankings. But almost anyone in the developed world will recognize an Ivy League degree. What if you don't end up in philosophy? Ivy League pedigree will be much shinier than Leiter pedigree, and even within philosophy I understand that some schools, especially SLACS, simply like to stock their faculty rosters with Ivy Leaguers because students and their parents recognize that as prestigious.

Yeah, this might partly explain it! I can see the Ivies getting a lot of applications, and can definitely see them getting more than some top five schools like Pitt or Michigan. And if that's the case then this makes sense -- the students I met from Ivies were really good applicants and very well-prepared, so I can plausibly see them edging out competition in a larger pool. I guess it was the almost total division in my results that surprised me -- I was startled to get into NYU, for example, but to be flat-out rejected from, say, Cornell and Columbia. Having applied basically everywhere gave me a really interesting spread of results to consider and that was the only curveball I hadn't even anticipated (besides getting in anywhere in the first place, that is). You're so right that an Ivy League degree carries a lot of weight outside academic philosophy -- I did get a solitary Ivy wait list and my non-academic family members (which is to say all of them) were utterly devastated when I took myself off of it. 

[Hypatience]

One thing I didn't talk about much was the prestige of your letter writers, but I think that can be a factor. If you can, I think it's good to try and get letters from the most senior scholars in your department, or at least the ones who are currently publishing the most and in the best places. I was lucky in that my interests happened to align with two people who fit that description at my MA program (not entirely by accident -- I chose the program to work with one of them). My third letter was actually external; I took a grad class over the summer at my BA institution and got a letter from a younger professor who was a little more well known, or at least one of those fairly visible mover-and-shaker types. S/he ended up taking an interest in my work and being a big help to me.

 

I think having an external letter can help a lot -- the professor knows you're motivated, because you went through the trouble of taking the course for credit at their institution (doing this in my province wasn't necessarily expensive, but it involved a lot of 'visiting student' paperwork). Plus if you're going through all the trouble it motivates you to be a really good student and to be super proactive about getting the most out of the class. Especially if the professor is at a school that hits heavier in the rankings than your current one, an external letter is something that can help you stand out.

 

But right, I started out talking about prestige -- I was a little awestruck by how many of my peers' letter-writers on the visits were by mega-famous scholars. Like I said, my letter writers were good people producing great work, but I definitely met a lot of folks who were mentored by all-out superstars. If you happen to be at the kind of school that has faculty like that, you should try to do all you can to get them to take an interest in you! 

[Hypatience]

Oh, one last thing about visiting off the wait list: don't be shy about saying you're on the wait list. I mentioned it casually a lot in my meetings right off the bat -- "So, I'm on the wait list, and I don't know if that changes the tone or tenor of this meeting, but I was told to just take it seriously in case an offer materializes, so that's what I'm going to do!" And then you can just ask the kinds of questions you would ask if you were admitted without feeling sheepish or like a fraud. Because there's no reason to feel that way, anyway -- it's so competitive at some of these places that they realize there isn't much of a difference in quality between who gets in and who gets wait listed. One top school told me they'd looked at their records for past years and found that a student being initially wait listed or not didn't positively correlate at all with success in the program or on the job market. Everyone is pretty much equally good at that level.

 

So be open about it, although be a little careful not to sound desperate or anything. Just be really positive and say you've got some great options but you'd love to be able to consider school X. Some people were super secretive about the fact that they were on the wait list (to the extent that I thought they'd been admitted until they told me otherwise after the visits) -- but being open about it and acting like it wasn't a big deal worked for me. And at the school I mentioned in my previous post, where I got accepted partly because people "lobbied" for me, I'm sure that this wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been really forthcoming about my position. (Sometimes the grad students don't know who is wait listed and who isn't, this can vary really widely.)

[philosopheme]

There are no uniform requirements for any part of the application. This means:

-suggested length of writing sample differs from school to school. nobody advised me to worry about this, and I think my ~20 page sample was a fine length, even though it was above the max of a couple schools I applied to and towards the min of others.

-due dates of applications vary from school to school.

-some schools (Michigan, most california schools I think) require a second personal statement and/or a diversity statement.

-NOT EVERY SCHOOL needs an official copy of your transcript. so before you buy 15 of them like I did, get a clear count of how many you actually need. and if you want a copy of mine, i still have like 6, will sell for half price

-the applications ask for the emails of your letter-writers, and when you submit them, it contacts the letter-writers immediately. so, maybe save this part until after you've given your letter-writers everything they need. otherwise these important emails will get burried.

 

There are no uniform regulations for visiting procedures, if you get accepted, but almost every school expects you to front the money for your travel, only to reimburse you later. this can be a problem if you don't have a few extra hundred dollars in your bank account.

 

'Waitlist' means different things at different schools. Some schools accept only as many people as they can fund, and waitlist others but invite them out to visit anyways. This is what some other schools call accepted without funding, and then have /another/ class that is waitlisted beneath them. Some other schools accept (with funding) more people than they can afford, banking on a few of the applicants to turn them down. Schools like NYU won't do this, but schools in the 20-50 range might. Sometimes, 'waitlist' isn't used at all, and instead you just don't hear back from a school until April 15 or later. Congrats, this means you were waitlisted!

 

If you have more than one paper that you've polished and are proud of, find a way to link to it in your personal statement. A classmate of mine made a personal website with his writing sample and two other papers. This doesn't force anybody to read any more than they want to, but might help distinguish you from other applicants. As an added bonus, you get to see the IP addresses of people who visit your page, and can trace them to certain cities to know when you're in the mix! I didn't do this because I only had one paper I was proud of, but if you're debating between two or more writing samples, maybe this is a good path for you.

 

Ask your professors where they think you should go. Or, if they say they don't feel comfortable answering that, ask them where they wish they were going! I got stonewalled when I asked the first question, since my interests are a weird combination of all of my advisors', but got a lot of great leads when asking the latter.

 

Get off this forum right now. Read a book, go on a run, start an online chess game with me, whatever, but you don't need to be here right now. Maybe once you've submitted all your applications you can check here once a week, but it got to the point where I was having nightmares from checking this place right before bed. The only useful function of this site is that it helps you infer when you've been rejected from a school days (or sometimes weeks or months) before the school bothers to tell you.

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

You brought up something I have been worried about most regarding applying for the upcoming year- writing sample length! I have managed to create a 20p version of my originally 46p. undergrad thesis (it breaks my heart to leave out certain sections, but such is life!) I know that some schools imply a strict minimum of 5,000 or 7/8,000 words, and I honestly cannot conceive of editing another version this paper for these schools any further without losing the entire argument, given its content. Even though a 20p paper would be a good 5-7 pages over this limit, is it therefore okay to send a sample of this length anyway, figuring that they will either read it in entirety or they won't? Thanks in advance! 

[dgswaim]

You brought up something I have been worried about most regarding applying for the upcoming year- writing sample length! I have managed to create a 20p version of my originally 46p. undergrad thesis (it breaks my heart to leave out certain sections, but such is life!) I know that some schools imply a strict minimum of 5,000 or 7/8,000 words, and I honestly cannot conceive of editing another version this paper for these schools any further without losing the entire argument, given its content. Even though a 20p paper would be a good 5-7 pages over this limit, is it therefore okay to send a sample of this length anyway, figuring that they will either read it in entirety or they won't? Thanks in advance! 

I wouldn't worry about going over the limit by a few pages. The sample I submitted was just under 25 pages, and I had the same worry. I consulted one of my professors and he told me, "Better to submit the entire paper than to cut sections that are important to the structure of the argument. Put another way, a paper that's too long is a venial sin, whereas an incoherent paper is a mortal sin."

 

His advice was echoed by professors from many of the departments to which I applied. I wrote to several of them in advance asking whether they might prefer that I send just a section of the paper, or the paper in its entirety, and in each and every case they told me to go ahead and send the whole thing, if I indeed felt that it was the best reflection of my philosophical abilities. So I would say that you should fret not. The most important thing is to send what you think is your best piece of work to date, and it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing.