How would you pick between departments

[Philhopeful]

Its pretty self explanatory. If you've gotten offers from more than one program, how do you plan on choosing between them? How important are things like fit, stipend size, location, and ranking to you personally? 

[dgswaim]

My how I would love to be having this problem at the moment...

[TheVineyard]

Here is my official decision formula:

First, I take the number of interested professors, multiply it by their PGR ranking, then divide it by 2 if I was waitlisted first. I then take the square root of the stipend and add it to the average age of my POIs to determine what I call the "K Variable." At that point, I.......

 

Really, why even post this? There is no set way to decide, its 100% up to you and what you want. You have your own set of values that your mommy should have told you is special and different from all the others. You know why you applied to each school. You know what you like at each school. You applied to CEU? What is CEU? You know, I don't. You obviously know the various sorts of considerations that people make when they choose a school (you listed them), so figure out for yourself how they work. Hearing how I make my decision should have no bearing on how you make yours, and so on.

This seems like a thread where people who have gotten accepted to multiple schools can brag about how "tough it must be" to choose between them. Woe is me! As much as I'd like to join in the fun and namedrop my schools, this thread will help nobody, and will instead make those who haven't been accepted feel bad.

TL;DR: No need for the humblebrag.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[greencoloredpencil]

Here is my official decision formula:

First, I take the number of interested professors, multiply it by their PGR ranking, then divide it by 2 if I was waitlisted first. I then take the square root of the stipend and add it to the average age of my POIs to determine what I call the "K Variable." At that point, I.......

 

Really, why even post this? There is no set way to decide, its 100% up to you and what you want. You have your own set of values that your mommy should have told you is special and different from all the others. You know why you applied to each school. You know what you like at each school. You obviously know the various sorts of considerations (you listed them), so figure out for yourself how they work. Talk to people in the department or people who know the department (aka, ask your writers).

 

 

 

I don't think this is the most charitable reply. I think this topic was simply a place for people to share what factors they would take into account most in making a decision. It could be interesting to hear what others value.

 

EDIT: I see you've edited your original post that I quoted. I still don't think your new one is the most charitable reply. 

 

Unfortunately, I'm not one with multiple offers (at least as of now  ) so I can't contribute positively. 

Edited February 27, 2014 by greencoloredpencil

[Griswald]

Here is my official decision formula:

First, I take the number of interested professors, multiply it by their PGR ranking, then divide it by 2 if I was waitlisted first. I then take the square root of the stipend and add it to the average age of my POIs to determine what I call the "K Variable." At that point, I.......

 

Really, why even post this? There is no set way to decide, its 100% up to you and what you want. You have your own set of values that your mommy should have told you is special and different from all the others. You know why you applied to each school. You know what you like at each school. You applied to CEU? What is CEU? You know, I don't. You obviously know the various sorts of considerations that people make when they choose a school (you listed them), so figure out for yourself how they work.

 

The OP asked how important various factors are to you personally, not for a general "set way to decide." That seems to me like a reasonably good topic to discuss.

[Griswald]

For me, location is a big factor, for personal reasons. Fit is equally, or perhaps slightly more, important. I think I'm a good fit at all the programs I applied to, though some might edge out others. If by ranking you mean PGR ranking, then I'd say that it's not really too important for me. I'm much more concerned about fit and placement than I am about attending the "top-10" or the "top-30". I would allow stipend to be a deciding factor if all else was nearly equal.

[TheVineyard]

The OP asked how important various factors are to you personally, not for a general "set way to decide." That seems to me like a reasonably good topic to discuss.

 

Personally, I value stipends 1.5x more than average, and I really want the campus to be on a hill. I value hilltops 3x as much as the average applicant. I mean, who cares? What someone else values is not going to change what I value, nor should my values change yours. This thread cannot possibly be helpful to anyone, but will just serve as another circlejerk for those of us lucky enough to have multiple acceptances under the belt. As much as I love circlejerks...I just can't see this being helpful, but I can see it being harmful.

 

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[dgswaim]

Its pretty self explanatory. If you've gotten offers from more than one program, how do you plan on choosing between them? How important are things like fit, stipend size, location, and ranking to you personally? 

I see you've been admitted to UT Austin. I don't know what they're offering in terms of funding, but if location is important to you, I can tell you that Austin is a great place to live (I've been here for 4 and 1/2 years now).

[Griswald]

Personally, I value stipends 1.5x more than average, and I really want the campus to be on a hill. I value hilltops 3x as much as the average applicant. I mean, who cares? What someone else values is not going to change what I value, nor should my values change yours. This thread cannot possibly be helpful to anyone, but will just serve as another circlejerk for those of us lucky enough to have multiple acceptances under the belt. As much as I love circlejerks...I just can't see this being helpful, but I can see it being harmful.

 

Your values might not change what I value, but your reasons for holding them might. If this isn't helpful, why not just forgo commenting?

[TheVineyard]

Your values might not change what I value, but your reasons for holding them might. If this isn't helpful, why not just forgo commenting?

 

When I see something potentially harmful to applicants already in a rut, and at the same time the thing offers nothing helpful, I feel obligated to say something about it.

Luckily the meta-discussion doesn't harm anyone, so I'm happy to continue!

Its like a bunch of CEOs getting together in the company discussion room and, right there in front of the minimum wage employees, having a big merry chat about how they each are going to decide to spend this year's 5 million dollar bonus check that they received at the expense of the poor wage laborers.

Everyone is stressed out, some people are clutching to their single waitlist, and others are just dying to see something...ANYTHING in their inbox. There is no obligation to make any decisions for a month and a half, and hardly anyone has gone on their visits. NOBODY even can be certain about their final acceptance outcome, as we all have schools yet to answer us. The discussion is just breeding ground for humblebrags and can't even help the humblebragging parties.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[Griswald]

When I see something potentially harmful to applicants already in a rut, and at the same time the thing offers nothing helpful, I feel obligated to say something about it.

Luckily the meta-discussion doesn't harm anyone, so I'm happy to continue!

Its like a bunch of CEOs getting together in the company discussion room and, right there in front of the minimum wage employees, having a big merry chat about how they each are going to decide to spend this year's 5 million dollar bonus check that they received at the expense of the poor wage laborers.

Everyone is stressed out, some people are clutching to their single waitlist, and others are just dying to see something...ANYTHING in their inbox. There is no obligation to make any decisions for a month and a half, and hardly anyone has gone on their visits. NOBODY even can be certain about their final acceptance outcome, as we all have schools yet to answer us. The discussion is just breeding ground for humblebrags and can't even help the humblebragging parties.

Okay, this makes some sense to me. I agree that it's a bit too soon to discuss this sort of thing. That said, I'm certain that I would have benefitted a lot from a discussion like this a few years ago, so I still think it's a good thread.

[TheVineyard]

Okay, this makes some sense to me. I agree that it's a bit too soon to discuss this sort of thing. That said, I'm certain that I would have benefitted a lot from a discussion like this a few years ago, so I still think it's a good thread.

 

Here's what might be helpful: A list of possible considerations that people might make.

However, saying "I chose Michigan over UC Davis because, DUH, Michigan is awesome and UC Davis is not as good for these billion values I have" will just make that applicant who has only managed a waitlist at UC Davis feel even worse.

Here's something that might be interesting as well: When someone makes a decision, if they made a decision that seems counterintuitive (reject Princeton for...Wisconsin or something) they could say what reasons they had for making such a decision.

[wandajune]

I think my decision will depend primarily on fit, and based on my thoughts after visiting.

 

Here's what might be helpful: A list of possible considerations that people might make.

However, saying "I chose Michigan over UC Davis because, DUH, Michigan is awesome and UC Davis is not as good for these billion values I have" will just make that applicant who has only managed a waitlist at UC Davis feel even worse.

Here's something that might be interesting as well: When someone makes a decision, if they made a decision that seems counterintuitive (reject Princeton for...Wisconsin or something) they could say what reasons they had for making such a decision.

 

I don't think this thread was meant for the bolded option, but rather for people to discuss their considerations. It's a bit presumptuous to suggest that's what anyone will post here.

Edited February 27, 2014 by wandajune

[MattDest]

I chose Arizona because DUH ITS SO MUCH BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER DEPARTMENT THAT EVER EXISTED.

[TheVineyard]

I chose Arizona because DUH ITS SO MUCH BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER DEPARTMENT THAT EVER EXISTED.

 

Well shit...I guess I should choose Arizona too!

[Table]

Thanks for starting this thread! I've been thinking about making a post along these lines. 

 

Someone (zizek? bsg? I think it was someone with a photo of a man as their picture) posted this list of 5 things to consider as you choose from Marcus Arvan of the philosopher's cocoon. Summary: who's leaving/retiring, attrition rates, placement rates, climate (for women and minorities and more generally ex. supportiveness), and funding situation, particularly how easy it is to get funding beyond 5 years. He then says:

 

You might have noticed some things I didn't mention, such as: "Go to the program that has the faculty member(s) you would most want to work with", or "Prioritize programs that are really the best in your area of concentration." I did not mention these things because, frankly, I do not think they are that important. Okay, they are sort of important -- and may be more important to some people than others -- but I would like to suggest not underestimating how much your interests can change in grad school. 

My current thinking is along these lines. All of the departments I applied to, of course, are strong in my areas of interest. Some have more people working on the particular issues that especially interest me right now, but I'm trying not to put too much weight on that. The main thing I want is a supportive department where I can do quality work in a reasonable about of time and give myself the best possible chance of getting a job. Those things are more important to me than a perfect fit with my current interests.

 

So placement rates and climate are major factors for me, though climate seems almost impossible to assess before visiting. A few things beyond the very obvious that I'm looking at in regard to being able to do quality work in a reasonable amount of time:

• How easy would it be for me to be happy here? I'm trying to factor in funding amount (w/ cost of living in mind) and location through this frame instead of looking at them independently.
• What would my non-research workload be like? How much would I be TA-ing? How big are the classes people TA for? (Someone in the comments of the cocoon post mentioned this as something to consider.) What would working with these undergraduates be like? (I know someone at a great program at a big state school who became pretty disillusioned about teaching. I don't really know how to weigh this.)
• What's the average time to completion? And what's the funding situation for people that take more than 5 years?

I'm really interested in hearing what other people are thinking. This kind of discussion can be helpful because plenty of people don't realize things like average time to completion really vary between departments. It's pretty common to hear people say they wished they considered X when they were choosing.

 

We need to decide where we're visiting very soon, and for some people that means ruling out departments. This is, of course, a great problem to have, and I feel incredibly fortunate to be in this position. But I'm not totally sure how to proceed, and discussion would be helpful for me and presumably others as well. And for people that won't be making any decisions until after visits, this still seems like a good time to start thinking about what considerations will be especially important so you can gather information, know what you want to find out at your visits, etc. 

 

I'm going to respond to Vineyard's comments in the in hopes that we can move the metadiscussion over there. 

[humean_skeptic]

I chose Arizona because DUH ITS SO MUCH BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER DEPARTMENT THAT EVER EXISTED.

 

This claim is just about as certainly true as 'All bachelors are unmarried'. 

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

This seems like a thread where people who have gotten accepted to multiple schools can brag about how "tough it must be" to choose between them. Woe is me! As much as I'd like to join in the fun and namedrop my schools, this thread will help nobody, and will instead make those who haven't been accepted feel bad.

TL;DR: No need for the humblebrag.

 

This thread cannot possibly be helpful to anyone, but will just serve as another circlejerk for those of us lucky enough to have multiple acceptances under the belt. 

 

 

...Its like a bunch of CEOs getting together in the company discussion room and, right there in front of the minimum wage employees, having a big merry chat about how they each are going to decide to spend this year's 5 million dollar bonus check that they received at the expense of the poor wage laborers.

...The discussion is just breeding ground for humblebrags and can't even help the humblebragging parties.

 

 

Here's what might be helpful: A list of possible considerations that people might make.

However, saying "I chose Michigan over UC Davis because, DUH, Michigan is awesome and UC Davis is not as good for these billion values I have" will just make that applicant who has only managed a waitlist at UC Davis feel even worse.

Here's something that might be interesting as well: When someone makes a decision, if they made a decision that seems counterintuitive (reject Princeton for...Wisconsin or something) they could say what reasons they had for making such a decision.

 

What I've learned from this thread:

 

TheVineyard has multiple acceptances

TheVineyard doesn't want to brag about her/his multiple acceptances

TheVineyard wants you to understand that even though s/he has multiple acceptances, s/he will not participate in the humblebrag-iness

TheVineyard is just like that metaphorical CEO, but more like a CEO with a heart, because s/he isn't a humblebrag

 

ArrogantBrag...

[TheVineyard]

What I've learned from this thread:

 

TheVineyard has multiple acceptances

TheVineyard doesn't want to brag about her/his multiple acceptances

TheVineyard wants you to understand that even though s/he has multiple acceptances, s/he will not participate in the humblebrag-iness

TheVineyard is just like that metaphorical CEO, but more like a CEO with a heart, because s/he isn't a humblebrag

 

ArrogantBrag...

 

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I removed my acceptance/rejection info from my signature recently, and now I'm bragging just by pointing out that I am NOT leveling these complaints because I PERSONALLY feel hurt/bothered by this thread due to a lack of acceptances? Someone might think that the only reason I was complaining is because I was mass-rejected and salty about it. Somehow I am the braggart for taking the position that although I do have multiple offers, we don't need a thread to humblebrag about the "embarrassment of riches?" I'm not naming schools, I'm not talking about myself as an applicant. I'm purely concerned about this thread becoming a circlejerk for the fortunate among us and nothing more. If that concern is stupid, then it's stupid. I don't really care to defend it any further, clearly all of the accepted people disagree with me (surprise! Don't ruin our fun!) so whatever. Go ahead. Just don't act like I'm trying to brag about my status when I don't include it in my signature and don't name schools.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I removed my acceptance/rejection info from my signature recently, and now I'm bragging just by pointing out that I am NOT leveling these complaints because I PERSONALLY feel hurt/bothered by this thread due to a lack of acceptances? Someone might think that the only reason I was complaining is because I was mass-rejected and salty about it. Somehow I am the braggart for taking the position that although I do have multiple offers, we don't need a thread to humblebrag about the "embarrassment of riches?" I'm not naming schools, I'm not talking about myself as an applicant. I'm purely concerned about this thread becoming a circlejerk for the fortunate among us and nothing more. If that concern is stupid, then it's stupid. I don't really care to defend it any further, clearly all of the accepted people disagree with me (surprise! Don't ruin our fun!) so whatever. Go ahead. Just don't act like I'm trying to brag about my status when I don't include it in my signature and don't name schools.

 

The bolded information is completely unnecessary (and in many ways counterproductive) to your argument, and you have found it necessary to include it several times, while chastising others for doing the same with the intent of seeking help to hash out their choices. I see only one person bragging in this thread, no matter how many times you throw on the cape of pity for those who were not successful (to those in this situation: I was in your shoes last year, and you can come out of it and succeed, as many others have done) - although they haven't asked for your defense or pity. It seems that this is a chance for you to let everyone know that even though you have several offers, you can still sit atop moral mountain passing judgment on all the peasants below. There are different ways to brag, and there are even ways to share information without any intent of arrogance (of course you consider this humblebrag, and you're welcome to this opinion). 

 

For the record, how is this topic not a 100% valid discussion for anyone faced with a very difficult decision that will play a huge role throughout their professional careers? Perhaps the forum should be segregated into sub-Philosophy forums with "Philosophy Still Waiting/No Acceptances," "Philosophy One Acceptance," and "Philosophy More than One Acceptance," so that those in the latter group can seek advice about what they should be considering? I'd be willing to bet that even if one has excellent LoRs, there's no guarantee that they have an adviser they feel comfortable hashing out the details with. GradCafe was good enough for them to seek application help, but not decision help? And why do you get to be the judge of what information is valuable for other forum members?

[TheVineyard]

The bolded information is completely unnecessary (and in many ways counterproductive) to your argument, and you have found it necessary to include it several times, while chastising others for doing the same with the intent of seeking help to hash out their choices. I see only one person bragging in this thread, no matter how many times you throw on the cape of pity for those who were not successful (to those in this situation: I was in your shoes last year, and you can come out of it and succeed, as many others have done) - although they haven't asked for your defense or pity. It seems that this is a chance for you to let everyone know that even though you have several offers, you can still sit atop moral mountain passing judgment on all the peasants below. There are different ways to brag, and there are even ways to share information without any intent of arrogance (of course you consider this humblebrag, and you're welcome to this opinion). 

 

For the record, how is this topic not a 100% valid discussion for anyone faced with a very difficult decision that will play a huge role throughout their professional careers? Perhaps the forum should be segregated into sub-Philosophy forums with "Philosophy Still Waiting/No Acceptances," "Philosophy One Acceptance," and "Philosophy More than One Acceptance," so that those in the latter group can seek advice about what they should be considering? I'd be willing to bet that even if one has excellent LoRs, there's no guarantee that they have an adviser they feel comfortable hashing out the details with. GradCafe was good enough for them to seek application help, but not decision help? And why do you get to be the judge of what information is valuable for other forum members?

 

Yeah...whatever. It was a relevant fact that showed my position not to be one of myself being jealous/personally offended by the thread. Again, damned if you say it, damned if you don't. Do what you want, see and hear what you want. I've made my position known, and nobody likes it. Nothing left to accomplish here.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TheVineyard

[philosopheme]

this thread reminds me of part of my criteria: any department i visit where the students argue philosophy at each other in hostile ways because they're stressed out is going down a peg when i make my decision. this is an awful, stressful time, but so is, like, writing a dissertation. this is just the beginning, let's be nice.

 

also, since i'll be biking wherever i am, i personally value schools that are /not/ on a hill (having attended one for undergrad, my legs need a break). that's really what it'll come down to: bike lanes and art scenes.

[wandajune]

this thread reminds me of part of my criteria: any department i visit where the students argue philosophy at each other in hostile ways because they're stressed out is going down a peg when i make my decision. this is an awful, stressful time, but so is, like, writing a dissertation. this is just the beginning, let's be nice.

 

Agreeing with this.

[objectivityofcontradiction]

Speaking of philosophical maturity, I tend to take it as a sign of philosophical maturity when an individual is able to talk philosophy with various levels of intensity and rigor, and so, for example, can leave a seminar, head to a pub, and continue the discussion in a manner that is appropriate to the pub scene. If we are sitting down for pints, and you react to something I say by enlightening me to the disconnect between my premise and my conclusion, or overreact or offend in a manner that is consistent with the behavior of some on this forum, well, suffice it to say I will not be picking up the tab, and that you've certainly lived up to the name of the type of graduate student that us regular folk will be looking to avoid. I hope to be immersed in a grad student body that consists of, dare I say, 'average,' individuals. Ya know, people with social skills. My MA supervisor once said to me, 'The other students are going to be so happy when they find out you're normal.' I took that as a compliment. 

Edited February 27, 2014 by objectivityofcontradiction

[dgswaim]

Speaking of philosophical maturity, I tend to take it as a sign of philosophical maturity when an individual is able to talk philosophy with various levels of intensity and rigor, and so, for example, can leave a seminar, head to a pub, and continue the discussion in a manner that is appropriate to the pub scene. If we are sitting down for pints, and you react to something I say by enlightening me to the disconnect between my premise and my conclusion, or overreact or offend in a manner that is consistent with the behavior of some on this forum, well, suffice it to say I will not be picking up the tab, and that you've certainly lived up to the name of the type of graduate student that us regular folk will be looking to avoid. I hope to be immersed in a grad student body that consists of, dare I say, 'average,' individuals. Ya know, people with social skills. My MA supervisor once said to me, 'The other students are going to be so happy when they find out you're normal.' I took that as a compliment. 

I'm afraid I've run out of upvotes, but this is right on the money.