Salary you are EXPECTING to make after your grad degree?

[OverTheOcean]

Pepper84 - The "apply and see what comes back" strategy is one that I've considered. That may end up being the best option. The one wrinkle is my boss at work - she's in favor of higher education, as long as it involves staying with the same job, and doing it one class at a time. But if it involves leaving the job...well, then, that's another story. My original plan was actually to apply last fall. These plans were halted when my boss told me that, if she had to write me a recommendation letter for various grad schools, it would call in to question my commitment to the job, jeopardize future promotion potential, etc. Ouch. I have a strategy for handling it this time around, but it was enough of a surprise last fall to encourage me to put down the applications for a while.

How about yourself? Have you already made the leap, or are you still weighing the pros and cons?

JuneBug62 - Good point about maintaining the GS after graduation. I honestly hadn't thought of that. The GS12 combined w/ the degree may be enough to allow me to apply to GS 13 positions. I guess the only worry is that it makes us more difficult to place. Imagine a job that's being offered as a GS11; to hire us, they'd have to be willing to pay the extra money each year. As for education sponsored by the office, see above. I could probably chip away at an applied economics masters over the course of a few years, but that's not really what I'm looking for - it leaves me in the same spot, same subject matter, and very little increased career potential.

Were you able to get your govt office to pay for all/part of a degree?

[stigMPA]

my boss told me that, if she had to write me a recommendation letter for various grad schools, it would call in to question my commitment to the job, jeopardize future promotion potential, etc. Ouch. I have a strategy for handling it this time around, but it was enough of a surprise last fall to encourage me to put down the applications for a while.

Why go to her for a recommendation at all? She's obviously not supportive.

You're fortunate to not be too far removed from your undergrad years. Try to seek out professors for your recommendations - schools seem to prefer this when possible.

[patapata]

The one wrinkle is my boss at work - she's in favor of higher education, as long as it involves staying with the same job, and doing it one class at a time. But if it involves leaving the job...well, then, that's another story. My original plan was actually to apply last fall. These plans were halted when my boss told me that, if she had to write me a recommendation letter for various grad schools, it would call in to question my commitment to the job, jeopardize future promotion potential, etc.

I really hope you can get a recommendation letter elsewhere. Your boss is extremely unfair to you, especially since you are are giving her many months of notice. That is not normal behavior for a supervisor.

(I know you said you're an economist, but is your boss an FSO? Or are there people like this in other agencies. **Shudder**)

[junebug62]

I really hope you can get a recommendation letter elsewhere. Your boss is extremely unfair to you, especially since you are are giving her many months of notice. That is not normal behavior for a supervisor.

(I know you said you're an economist, but is your boss an FSO? Or are there people like this in other agencies. **Shudder**)

Hah, so I'm not the only one who has the impression that State Department treats their people like total crap...

Seriously OvertheOcean, your boss sounds awful. A manager with any sense would support the decision and encourage the then better-educated, more valuable employee to come back to the office. *sigh* Government management! You could try pitching it as you'd work summers there if they help with grad school, perhaps...I've also gotten my office to fund one class at a time, after being told I was too new to be considered for any full time assistance, but I'm hoping to apply to a fulltime grad program this year now as well. I'm still not sure if I can get any work funding, but grad school is my number one goal regardless of the help I get. At least my managers were supportive. It doesn't look so hot on paper to have a bunch of folks with just a BA on your team. It makes your recruitment efforts and team expertise look pathetic, even if the BA is no less capable/experienced than the MA/MPA. At least that's the angle I'm hoping for...

[firefly85]

My god, 50K???? Are you people not depressed about how pathetically low that is?

Lol, as someone who started out in journalism (print journalism, God what was I thinking?) where salaries start at $30,000 and below (and I made well below that...) $50K sounds incredible to me right now as a starting salary. Granted the jobs I'm looking for will probably be in a more expensive city, but still, it's just amusing to get other people's perspectives.

[stilesg57]

^^^Ha, I'm in a similar spot. My first job out of college paid 14k, my next 33k then raised a couple times to 42k, my third 22k (what a difference six months of a bad economy and a change in location make) till I got laid off, and my fourth 14k until I got laid off. This is all substantially less than I was making in high school - you know, BEFORE I got a bachelor's degree from a great school. After the last layoff I couldn't find a job for almost 6 months, not a one in San Diego. I had to move to frickin' China and teach English just to stop the backsliding.

So yeah, 50k sounds beyond wonderful right now. I'm just pissed that I'll have to take out the better part of 100k in loans to do it

This is driving me very much towards private sector consulting unfortunately. We'll see what the picture looks like two or three years from now.

Not to start a rant or anything, but I have to ask: how is our generation (I'm 25) ever going to afford things like houses, college educations for our kids, or retirement? The fact that the baby-boomer generation and the one that preceded it were able to do all this largely with one-income households has me a little bitter.

[sommelier]

After reading the last couple posts, it makes me happy that I made the decision to move to a place where I could go to a decent school and pay as I go for graduate school. Granted, I would love to be going to Columbia, Georgetown or GW right now, but I make over 50k and have grad school paid for, so I guess things could be worse.

I just could not imagine taking on over 50k in loan debt for a degree that may not get you 50k/yr to start. I am 30, and when I get out of graduate school in '10 with my MBA I will be completely debt free. UNLV is not a superior academic institution by any means, but not having that $300 - $500 per month payment for student loans will allow me to take a little less money to get I job that I really like, or go on for my PhD.

In many ways, our collegiate academic system is a real racket.

[jillianlane]

You guys are selling yourself short. I work for the UN as a P2 with almost no experience and my total compensation last year was 120K (not including the fact that the UN pays your taxes and they contribute 16% into a pension). UN salaries might look low at first but once you consider the post-adjustment, dependency allowance, rental subsidy, health insurance, pension, tax benefits, relocation allowance, and DSA the salaries are pretty good. I figure I would need to make at least 200K in another job to be equivalent.

[michigan girl]

I'm not pursuing a MPP/MPA degree, but I hope my starting salary is at least $55,000. After 3 years of experience, it would be over $60,000.

[Dreams]

I'm not pursuing a MPP/MPA degree, but I hope my starting salary is at least $55,000. After 3 years of experience, it would be over $60,000.

I would say that is pretty unrealistic for an MSW. Especially one who will not be able to practice independently. Unless you are using the Information side of your studies more or land a good gig in the government (like the Army civilian section, which is looking for a lot of SW), I just can't see it. Even when I hired MSWs last year, it was for much less than that.

[michigan girl]

FSIA, I know what you mean. My MSW concentration is Management and Policy (no interest in clinical). I'm hoping to use the Information side to boost my salary. The average starting salary for Information alumni is between $41,000 to $115,000 (oh how I wish that was me! LOL). The median is low $50,000s.

[lbjane]

So yeah, 50k sounds beyond wonderful right now. I'm just pissed that I'll have to take out the better part of 100k in loans to do it

This is driving me very much towards private sector consulting unfortunately. We'll see what the picture looks like two or three years from now.

Not to start a rant or anything, but I have to ask: how is our generation (I'm 25) ever going to afford things like houses, college educations for our kids, or retirement? The fact that the baby-boomer generation and the one that preceded it were able to do all this largely with one-income households has me a little bitter.

First of all, you almost certainly don't *have* to take out the better part of 100k in loans to do it. In all likelihood, there's no one with a gun to your head forcing you to go to a certain school and take out 100k in loans there. You could apply to a wider range of schools, including some lower ranked ones where your chance of financial aid would be better, and ultimately go somewhere where you wouldn't have to take out as much in loans. I'm not saying that it's the wrong choice to go to Michigan and take out 100k in loans, but I am saying that it's a choice, not a necessity.

One of the primary reasons I chose LBJ was because I knew that I could get out debt free. Between some financial aid, working part-time, and savings, I knew that I could afford the tuition and living expenses for two years without taking out loans. That's made a huge difference for me now that I'm working. Instead of spending several hundred dollars a month on loan repayment, I'm able to put more away for retirement and a house down payment.

You say yourself that an undergraduate degree from a great school did not guarantee you work and I think that that holds true at the graduate level as well. I work with people who have degrees from more prestigious schools and less prestigious schools than LBJ and UT and from what I've observed, it hasn't made much of a difference where people went to school in terms of performance or promotions. Classmates and friends of mine who work in other offices and for other agencies report similar situations where they work. So, I don't think that it makes a huge difference where you went to school when looking at federal employment. I will definitely acknowledge that it's different if you're looking in the private sector or legislative work.

[mppguy]

Lol, as someone who started out in journalism (print journalism, God what was I thinking?) where salaries start at $30,000 and below (and I made well below that...) $50K sounds incredible to me right now as a starting salary. Granted the jobs I'm looking for will probably be in a more expensive city, but still, it's just amusing to get other people's perspectives.

Hah, as someone who currently works in print journalism, I feel the pain. Luckily, I'll be starting towards my MPP in a few months. That said, I'm hoping to make at least 55k a year coming out of school. Knowing folks that work in and around state government in California, I don't think that's entirely unreasonable. Of course, if the state goes belly up, I can always push a mop or something....

[golonghorns]

We should all check this thread again in a few years and see if our predictions came true!

[notaznguy]

Hello, first time poster here and I have a question.

1) I know the median starting salary for public/non profits is around 50k, but are there any data sets that show realistically how much one makes after working for 10 years? Please don't tell me those with MPPs/MPAs are only cracking 60k after 10 year. I know this thread is optimistic, like someone said, they "hope" to crack 100k after 10 years and said that 100k is POSSIBLE, but is there actually any tables or charts that show if its possible for someone with an MPP/MPA to make that much after 10 years?

2) If MPPs/MPAs actually only make 60-70k at the peak of their careers, why are you guys considering getting an MPA/MPP? It most certainly isn't for the pay right? I know a high salary shouldn't be at the top of your head when going public, but what if you want to raise a family? You can barely buy a house with a salary of 60k, not to mention you won't be getting 60k until its the PEAK of your career. I mean, my old high school AP US History teacher made 80k after working for 20+ years. What gives?

Edited March 26, 2010 by notaznguy

[pea-jay]

I think the key word missing here is "median." As in half of the jobs pay better. Or worse.

100K is entirely realistic...if you get into upper management. Even in out of the way rural locations, upper management is very well compensated.

I've already put in a total of 12 yrs in the workforce, in various capacities (8yrs related, 4 not) and I have managed to climb above $50K. My urban counterparts make easily 10-15K more (again, I really am located well away from things). Coming straight out of a master's program without that job experience, the degree will only help so much both on salaries and the job opportunities themselves. I'm hoping the degree, connections and work history will lift me into at least the $85K-95K range, figures I did see advertised for those with a masters AND job experience.

[fsowannabe]

If I can jump back in to federal gov't work in DC, then I'd plan on mid 50-60s starting salary. If I get in to study abroad/international education, the I can probably expect to go down in the 30-40s, lol.

That's not necessarily true. I work in Int. Ed/Study Abroad (this is my first position in the field) and I make mid 50s.

[mppgal55]

I have a lot of relevant internships, but no post-grad work experience. If I decide to go into private sector this figure would change, but public I'd expect to get around 46K.

[wcasey5]

  Check the OPM salary website... If you're working for the Federal government in DC with no work experience, you'll be a GS-9 with a master's... You'll be a GS-7 without... And you'll move up to a GS-11 or GS-12 within 3 years regardless of whether you have a master's degree or not.   

Edited March 26, 2010 by wcasey5

[coaks]

Check the OPM salary website... If you're working for the Federal government in DC with no work experience, you'll be a GS-9 with a master's... You'll be a GS-7 without... And you'll move up to a GS-11 or GS-12 within 3 years regardless of whether you have a master's degree or not.

And to translate that into salary terms:

http://www.fedjobs.com/pay/pay.html

[socaljournalist]

Thanks for this thread! I too feel like our generation (I'm 27) has been shafted by sky-rocketing tuition and a crumbling job market.

And to translate that into salary terms:

http://www.fedjobs.com/pay/pay.html

[wcasey5]

Yeah, I spent about an hour trying to explain to my friend (a business major, predictably) that going to grad school wasn't as much about the money as it was about the future career options.  I have an Econ undergrad degree and am working in data analysis for the government now... It's a good job and I'd probably have a chance to be promoted here or elsewhere in the government before I'm finished with the MPP.  For me, it's not all about this next promotion, though... It's about the promotion after that and the one after that.  I wouldn't be happy being a GS-13 and wait there for years to just get a shot at a promotion 3 or 4 other very qualified co-workers are fighting for.  I think an MPP would give me a leg up on future promotions with the ability to analyze policy and make recommendations about it.

[coaks]

Yeah, I spent about an hour trying to explain to my friend (a business major, predictably) that going to grad school wasn't as much about the money as it was about the future career options. I have an Econ undergrad degree and am working in data analysis for the government now... It's a good job and I'd probably have a chance to be promoted here or elsewhere in the government before I'm finished with the MPP. For me, it's not all about this next promotion, though... It's about the promotion after that and the one after that. I wouldn't be happy being a GS-13 and wait there for years to just get a shot at a promotion 3 or 4 other very qualified co-workers are fighting for. I think an MPP would give me a leg up on future promotions with the ability to analyze policy and make recommendations about it.

Yep, same here. I really do think a lot of people miss the importance of the breadth of your marketability. Once you get past a certain point in your career, your ability to qualify for positions in other industries/organizations that are more than a couple of rungs up the ladder is greatly diminished. With an all-purpose degree like an MPP or MPA (or MBA), you can often appear more attractive than the in-house option that doesn't have that same university stamp of approval but, let's be honest, could probably do the job better than you can at first. (You being anyone of us applying for any random mid-level position). However, organizations are pre-disposed to preferring the individual with the certification. I don't think that preference is all that controversial and I don't see it changing appreciably in the future.

Edited March 26, 2010 by coakleym

[Putoots]

This has been a very interesting discussion...I'm definitely learning a lot about job prospects in various fields...

I’ll give you my perspective after having worked in local public administration (I’m assuming there are a few MPP/MPA hopefuls who are considering public sector jobs outside of the federal government). For those without public sector experience, I’ll give you the money stuff first, but I also want to add something about quality of life.

I’ve been with the Los Angeles Unified School District, the second largest school district in the U.S., doing project planning work for over three years (as an analyst). In the analyst series of jobs, which are generic entry-level professional positions, the salaries look like this:

Admin Staff Aide ($39,900 for Step 1)

Assistant Admin Analyst ($48,400 for Step 1)

Admin Analyst ($59,000 for Step 1)

There are usually 5 steps and each step raises ones salary by at least $2K (step increases occur annually).

None of these levels require a Masters degree, though college grads usually enter as Staff Aides or Assistant Analysts and put in 2-3 years before they get promoted to Analyst. Lately, many have been coming in as Analysts right out of college and making $60K+ in just two years.

The problem is that once you get to Analyst, or even Senior Analyst, you are in a bottleneck. You have to go back to get an MBA, JD, MPP, or M.Ed to get to that $100K-$120K+ range. Otherwise you are looking at analyst work or middle-management (at best) for 10-15 years...which may not be bad in terms of pay (it is possible to swing $80K+), but may not be rewarding.

And that is what I want to emphasize. For those with ambitions of doing something exciting or dynamic, the public sector is kind of a gamble. I was lucky enough to enter the organization during a massive technical infrastructure project, and have never had to repeat the same task or mini-project twice. However, even now, my unit – just three years out of project mode – is starting to coagulate into yet another bureaucratic operation.

My advice would be to consider compensation, yes, but also consider searching around for the right public sector branch or organization. MPP/MPA degrees provide flexibility, but that might not always be useful for quality of life. Just in case you find that you’re in a bottleneck – middle management or otherwise – and can’t get that executive position or high-profile project, it really helps to be doing something you enjoy so that the prospect of being there for the long haul makes you feel happy rather than depressed. (Those in the public sector will tell you that, because of step advancement, excellent benefits, the possibility of promotion, and the fact that it takes so long to finally get placement, public sector jobs are hard to leave.) The larger the organization, the more chances there are to move ahead, move around, and find interesting activities. But it also means there is the distinct possibility that you will get lost in the bureaucracy…

[**Please keep in mind that these salary numbers are for Los Angeles, which has a considerably higher cost of living. You may not find this kind of salary range in other areas of the country.**]

[egmpp2010]

I'm with the last couple commenters-- going to grad school for me isn't even mostly about the salary bump. In looking at job descriptions for research and evaluation positions in government as well as in non-profits, I feel like a MPP is a great credential and demonstrates a certain expertise/authority in doing analysis. Those are the kind of jobs I want and I think the Master's is going to allow me to both get that kind of job and to move up in my career, transitioning jobs as I need to. I would hope to make $60K on the other side, maybe more depending on the sector. I earn just under $40K now at a job at a non-profit in an urban area; before I took this job, I was offered a pretty low-level government one at $44K in a similarly expensive area. Both were jobs I was interested in for the experience far more than the money.

I definitely don't see much reason to take out $100K+ in loans for a degree to work in public service -- it would really limit my choices on the other side. But I think reasonable debt (which can be ball-parked at about your annual starting salary on the other side) is fine; I'm not eliminating options from list just because they would require debt. I'm never going to get rich doing what I'm doing; I just want to maintain a decent living, do what I love, and use my time -- which has a far greater opportunity cost to me -- well. I am, however, fairly young (24), and I am not in the position of having a family or wanting to start a family as soon as I graduate. That makes my debt calculations different from some of the other commenters.

But, no, I don't $50,000 depressing as a salary. I know it doesn't compare well to similarly-educated friends in the private sector, but the median household income in the United States is basically $50,000. Given that I have no kids and I am personally/statistically likely to marry someone who has a similar educational background, the combined household income I am probably going to have during my adult life is closer to twice the median in the United States for families ($60,000) than it is to the median. In fact, even if get married to someone else with a public service career, I'm likely to vault into the top 20% of households (those with incomes over $100,000). If I don't I get married, I'm still going to be fairly well-off even by the standards of a very well-off country. I feel very fortunate to have the opportunities I have and ultimately I am far less worried about how much I'm going to be earning than I am about finding interesting, satisfying and meaningful employment.

Edited March 26, 2010 by egmpp2010