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Joining a lab with a professor that's leaving institution?


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Hi all, 

 

I'm in dire need for some advice and I would really appreciate if y'all could help me out! Here's the good news about my situation: I got into one of my top choices for graduate school (Master's degree - though I want to continue into a PhD) and it's a leader in the field that I hope to go into. A professor whose career is taking off and whose research interests really closely align with mine offered me a funded position in his lab on a project that sounds perfect for me. 

 

And now the bad news: he's leaving the institution I applied to for another one this summer and wants me to go with him in a year if I join the lab. I can take classes at Institution 1 for a year but then I have to pack up and move to Institution 2 and take online courses from Institution 1 for the rest of my Master's credits. I also happen to LOVE the area that Institution 1 is in - a major factor for why I wanted to apply in the first place - and I cringe every time I think about the location/vibe of Institution 2. Not to mention, Institution 1 has a much stronger program overall (read: higher ranked and better known) than Institution 2. I intend to continue on with a PhD degree and I think I can manage to get Institution 1 on my diploma for the Master's and PhD degrees, but I'll still miss out on the excellent faculty, students, and research environment of Institution 1 for much of the time. The PI is offering me about 50% more funding than I had received prior from Institution 1 directly, so money is a minor minor consideration in all of this. This guy seems pretty intense, but in a good way, and in a few short weeks he has already proposed a research project for me, figured out logistics for my inter-instutition situation, and put me in contact with a former and current student (both of whom enjoyed their experience and attest to his productivity). 

 

But tell me this: is it crazy to leave an institution and academic program that I am pretty psyched about to follow a professor that I have, as of now, not met in person and have not worked with yet? He is publishing loads, getting awards and recognition from federal funding sources and professional societies, AND working on a topic that I hope to work on, but is being his student and benefiting from the light of his career and connections worth it to move to random part of the country to a less-strong institution? 

 

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone considering this kind of a deal before, so I'm at a loss for what to do. Thanks for reading and any thoughts are appreciated!

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What is the alternative right now? Based on what you've told us, I'd say at least attend institution 1 for now and decide after a few months what you want to do. If your professor needs an answer sooner, maybe you can suggest waiting (i.e. tell him that you want to make sure it's the right decision before committing, and to ask again after fall semester).

 

As for opinions on the overall decision of program vs. professor: if you want to get into a PhD program after and especially if you want to end up in academia, I think the professor's prestige matters more than your school's... if he's as great as you say he is! Heck, if institution 2 hired him, they might be a more up-and-coming program anyway! People know to take rankings with a grain of salt. But judging professors individually is much more... doable. Your graduate advisor will be a force throughout your entire future. Working with someone awesome can be career-defining. (I learned this from my advisor as an undergraduate, if you're curious. She definitely pushed me for person, not program, when making decisions!) Unless the institution is some kind of serious-big-name-like-crazy-whoa school, like MIT, I'd say it's worth the move, with respect to your career.

 

(All of this is based on my own humble impression, of course. :) )

Edited by PhDerp
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But tell me this: is it crazy to leave an institution and academic program that I am pretty psyched about to follow a professor that I have, as of now, not met in person and have not worked with yet? He is publishing loads, getting awards and recognition from federal funding sources and professional societies, AND working on a topic that I hope to work on, but is being his student and benefiting from the light of his career and connections worth it to move to random part of the country to a less-strong institution? 

The mere fact that you ask this question is interesting, to say the least. To answer your question: A little, yes. Why? Simply because you have not met him/her. Did you not visit the institution? You need to do what you can to meet this guy/gal. You applied to that school, and probably notified the school in your SOP that you wanted to work with that individual - and you say that his research fits with yours. Did you lie? Is this a situation where you exaggerated on your SOP in order to get into a "prestigious" institution? You should think about this. If you did, then you clearly should not follow that advisor - you're only doing him a disservice. 

 

The school name matters very little. I know it's hard to swallow, but in research it is so true. Especially for masters programs. What matters is who you work with and how you fit with that person. Say I'm wrong - you really do want to work with this guy. 

 

You say, "and I cringe every time I think about the location/vibe of Institution 2". Let's face it, the real reason you are worried about leaving Institution 1 is 

because you think that you're "downgrading". You're looking at the institution as if you're applying to undergraduate programs and treating the situation as if the name of the school truly matters that much - it doesn't. Additionally, you're worried that if you DO downgrade you won't get the opportunity to make it back to the caliber that is institution 1 again - this is flawed logic. Basically, by the time you finish your masters you'll realize that the name doesn't matter as much as fit, but if you do still want to get back to Institution 1 and/or a similar caliber you can make it happen. Mainly because you've already shown that you are capable of making it into the school. 

 

Where you go for your masters plays little into where you go for your PhD. This is because what's most important is fit. Ultimately, if this person does what you really want to do then then why would you hesitate to follow him? He's even offering more funding. If this guy is such a badass (sounds like he is) then you can go do great research with him and then when PhD programs come around you will have the opportunity to go wherever you want plus have no debt. But by then, you may realize that you two are doing groundbreaking research and leaving would be silly. On the other hand, is he doing what you truly want to do? The emphasis on the "caliber" of Institution 1 seems to imply that this may not be the case....

 

You need to sit back, calm down, and think about these questions I'm about to ask you:

1. What is your ultimate goal for going to graduate school? You mentioned you want to get a PhD. Therefore, which institution is going to set you up best to achieve that goal? That is, what institution is going to allow you to study something you enjoy (i.e., your interests). 

 

2. You said, "I also happen to LOVE the area that Institution 1 is in - a major factor for why I wanted to apply in the first place" - So did you apply to work with this prof, or did you apply because of what Institution 1 represents and the area it's in? I find it odd that you didn't visit the school or POI. It's easy to exaggerate your interests to get into a prestigious MA program; if this is the case just be honest with yourself. Please do not read me as cold. I am simply being candid  - your future is at stake and you need to think about these questions. If you are truly interested in the school and can accomplish your research goals for your MA without this POI then go there. You will be able to find another advisor. To be frank, It is just an MA: one of your first grand realizations is how utterly unimportant your masters thesis is. It might get a publication (probably will) but in the end it's just not that crucial. 

 

3. Who would you work with at Institution 1 if you stayed when he left? Are there others that work on a related topic? Did you talk to anyone else at the school and identify any other POI? Who else is at Institution 2, for that matter? 

 

4. Why is this prof leaving? Is it on bad terms or is it an academic move? Is he leaving a lab behind that you can still work in with other professors?

 

 

In sum, you need to think about your ultimate reasons for wanting to go to Institution 1: Was it because of the POI and the research he has? Then follow him. Was it because of the area and prestige that institution has? Then don't follow him. 

 

Think about these things and be honest with yourself. There are no bad decisions - only decisions that lead to different outcomes. Good luck, and know that whatever you choose you will succeed if you follow your passion. Stay positive, be honest with your self, and be confident in your decisions, and the world is yours. 

Edited by DigDeep
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Thanks all for the thoughtful answers! I had applied to Institution 1 for a myriad of reasons including overall program strength, location, and ties with other institutions/funding sources. I didn't mention the Superstar PI in my statement of purpose because I didn't know about him (in fact, I talked about other professors that I would also be happy to work with that are staying at Institution 1. Maybe this means I'm flaky or not entirely sure of my exact research interests?). After I had gotten in and was looking around for a lab, I contacted people in the field and they pointed me towards Superstar PI, at which point I inquired about working with him. He's well-known and well-respected in this field, but there are certainly others in the department that are also doing strong and interesting work. 

 

I've visited the institution and I loved it. I didn't meet the PI because he wasn't around that day, though I did request a meeting. I met some other faculty that I could see myself working with, but are not quite on the same superstar-level, as far as I can tell, and I just don't want to miss out on an opportunity to work with the "best." If I do my Master's with him, I would likely continue my PhD with him as well since that would just be easier and I'm so tired of moving around every year or two. At the same time, I hear that grad school is about the strength of your cohort as well, and I definitely liked the cultural and intellectual vibe of the students at Institution 1. I know very little about Institution 2, and I rarely hear it mentioned. 

 

I think you're right, DigDeep, that since I applied to the institution as a whole and there are lots of wonderful faculty there, I should stay with the institution. I just fear that I may be passing on a chance to do the work I think I want to do with a superstar. 

 

But yes, either way I go, I think I'll be okay!

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Thanks all for the thoughtful answers! I had applied to Institution 1 for a myriad of reasons including overall program strength, location, and ties with other institutions/funding sources. I didn't mention the Superstar PI in my statement of purpose because I didn't know about him (in fact, I talked about other professors that I would also be happy to work with that are staying at Institution 1. Maybe this means I'm flaky or not entirely sure of my exact research interests?). After I had gotten in and was looking around for a lab, I contacted people in the field and they pointed me towards Superstar PI, at which point I inquired about working with him. He's well-known and well-respected in this field, but there are certainly others in the department that are also doing strong and interesting work. 

 

I've visited the institution and I loved it. I didn't meet the PI because he wasn't around that day, though I did request a meeting. I met some other faculty that I could see myself working with, but are not quite on the same superstar-level, as far as I can tell, and I just don't want to miss out on an opportunity to work with the "best." If I do my Master's with him, I would likely continue my PhD with him as well since that would just be easier and I'm so tired of moving around every year or two. At the same time, I hear that grad school is about the strength of your cohort as well, and I definitely liked the cultural and intellectual vibe of the students at Institution 1. I know very little about Institution 2, and I rarely hear it mentioned. 

 

I think you're right, DigDeep, that since I applied to the institution as a whole and there are lots of wonderful faculty there, I should stay with the institution. I just fear that I may be passing on a chance to do the work I think I want to do with a superstar. 

 

But yes, either way I go, I think I'll be okay!

 

Glad to hear you have achieved some solace. Sounds like I was wrong and you did visit and do proper research. In that case, I think that you will do just fine at Institution 1. My solution is this:

 

You can always tell him/her that you do admire their work and research and are interested in if they are avaialble to serve as an outside committee member for your masters research. Outside committee members are common - in fact, my roomate and I both have them from institutions that we were going to apply to and didn't. Just because you aren't at his institution doesn't mean you can't work with him. But, if he say's he is too busy then don't sweat it.

 

If my opinion counts, based on what you have said  I think you're making the right decision to stay at Institution 1. Whilst there be ambitious with your research interests, stick to them, and do not be afraid to pursue them. Sounds like if you get this guy on your committee he can help you do this. You should immediately begin to pinpoint who your next advisor could be at Institution 1 based on the match between their research methods and theoretical perspectives and yours. Best of luck to you! 

Edited by DigDeep
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If it were me ( I am writing this while thinking of the superstar in my field who I would die to work with) then I would follow the superstar where he is going. Being associated with his name will matter SO much more than any school name unless you are talking about a difference in top 5 vs top 200 sort of thing.

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I don't know that I would want to attempt such a route before actually working with the professor and knowing that our personalities click.

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If it were me ( I am writing this while thinking of the superstar in my field who I would die to work with) then I would follow the superstar where he is going. Being associated with his name will matter SO much more than any school name unless you are talking about a difference in top 5 vs top 200 sort of thing.

 

I agree, but for an MA? It's really not THAT important who your advisor is. Depends on how specialized you are, I suppose. 

Edited by DigDeep
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I wanted to point out that a lot of posts here are encouraging the OP not to worry about Institution name is Inst. 2 isn't as well respected as Inst. 1. But the OP says that their degree will still be from Inst. 1 (via taking online courses while working in the lab at Inst. 2). The OP is more concerned with physically having to be away from the school they applied to. So I would say to the OP, if you didn't specifically apply to work with this professor, than stay at school 1, as long as there is another lab there you can work at. Good luck with a tough decision!

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This is insane.  It makes no sense to move somewhere for a year only to pick up and move again a year later.  That's stressful to you personally, and it does not allow you to put down roots professionally either.  While your PI is very important, so is the rest of your department and your integration into it.  Perhaps you don't want to take online classes, and you actually want to be on the ground taking classes and going to seminars and engaging with your colleagues.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And especially at the master's level, MOST of the program will be taking courses and learning from your cohort.

 

And yes, I think it is pretty crazy to leave a program and institution you are excited about to follow a professor that you have not met.  It might be to your benefit to study with him at School B, but if that's the case then you should probably go to School B from the start.  It'd be a different situation if you were already his student at School A and he were leaving in your 3rd or 4th year, but I think your better bet at this point is to find a different adviser.

 

I also have to disagree that department/university doesn't matter at all.  It's field-dependent; in my field, your department/program matters, although not as much as your PI.  And I actually think it's the reverse - while school name might matter less for PhD students going into academia, I think it matters more for master's students, especially if they are planning professional careers.  But it's true that that's a moot point in this case since your degree will be from School A.

 

And no, not having mentioned this faculty member doesn't mean you're flaky.  I talked about 3 professors in my statement of purpose and I ended up working with a fourth professor who does similar but different work, but of whom I was unaware when I applied.

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Thanks everyone! This has been incredibly helpful. In my field I suspect that institution/department is pretty important as well, and the location of Institution 1 is prime for companies and regulatory agencies that I would love to work for after graduation. I think I would be a lot happier in that area, surrounded by my actual cohort and being able to network with a greater range of professors and people working in that field. I can easily find another advisor, and although I'll likely lose that 50% in stipend funding, I think that in the long run my sanity is probably worth it.

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