Kicked out from program

[SLPM23]

Hi everyone. It's been a very tough and stressful year for me. After one year of SLP grad school I got dropped from my program due to not making the GPA requirement. I got put on academic probation after the first semester and even though my GPA went up it still did not meet the requirement the second semester. I did everything I could to get good grades. I studied by a*** off, got together with study groups, made study guides, made flashcards, used quizlet, and read assigned readings, went in for extra help from professors, but none of it was still good enough. Like most speech programs it was very intense and sucked the life out of me. Not only that but I even had to go back to school in order to get the pre-requisites for speech just to get into a masters program due to not have a BA in speech (my original one was in journalism). So I used up 3 full and stressful years to have it all go down the drain. Yes I learned a lot but so what? Now I'm looking into developmental specialist, which is nowhere near as prestigous as an SLP. I feel like a failure. To make it worse I feel like I was backstabbed by one of my professors the first semester who gave me a D when I was not even expecting it. I was at a B and the very end I ended up with a D on my transcript. I went in to talk to the board about it but nothing could be done because they were not the ones teaching the class and this specific professor had her license taken away that following summer due to previous problems she had with students. So because she had to leave I was never given the chance to speak with her about my grade. So that was the beginning to my downfall and what I feel really screwed me over. I'm sorry I sound so cynical right now, but it is hard not to be when it comes to that scenario.

 

I have never heard of anyone getting kicked out from a speech path masters program and here I am. So much work put into to it and what do I have to show for it? Nothing. My moods have been up down from being negative and pessemistic to hopeful and trying to move forward. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[nugget]

Sorry to hear about your challenges. It sounds really tough to be going through this. Do you still have access to counselling services at your school or can you see an academic adviser to discuss your options? There may be a way for you to reapply and regain admission into the program (either at the same school or a different one). You may also want to consult with the school's ombudsman for more guidance.

 

Perhaps you don't need to change fields if you can find a way to pursue SLP part time to allow yourself more time to get through the material. It sounds like it takes more time for you to get through the material but once you know something, it naturally gets easier as you integrate the knowledge into your practice and acquire more experience in the field.

Edited June 9, 2014 by jenste

[SLPM23]

Yes I agree that it seems to take me more time to study and understand the material. My program flat out told me they would not accept me if I reapplied due to it being such a competative program. I am also considering LCSW degree. Licensed clinical social worker.

[nugget]

Both of your ideas sound like good options. While it's a shame things didn't work out as originally planned, your knowledge acquired in the SLP program can be useful when working with clients in an allied profession. Extra knowledge is never a bad thing, and you are likely to receive extra credit for some of your course work.

 

Do you still have access to academic advising or counselling appointments at school for a limited period of time? You may want to look into this if you do. An academic adviser is likely to have seen other students in the same kind of situation and may have some good info and advice to share with you. If you are still concerned about the D, as a final attempt you may want to schedule an appointment with the school's ombudsman and ask if there is another avenue that you could pursue to get that grade adjusted or removed. 

 

Clearly you have a strong work ethic, you are resourceful and have good people/group work skills based on all of the things you said in your original post. You also come across as a very determined person. These attributes and abilities will serve you well as a developmental specialist or social worker. I wish you all the best!

Edited June 10, 2014 by jenste

[sayjo]

I feel you.  I have a few family members in SLP and one of them had issues with academics too (to the point where they were unsure they would graduate).  It has definitely made me nervous to start graduate school!

 

If you still love SLP (and feel you could be successful in a different program), have you tried reaching out to other less competitive graduate schools and explaining your situation?  I expect many schools may not look favorably on your background, but there is always a chance that one or two might consider you as a candidate for the upcoming admission season.

 

Also, are you in a state that uses SLPAs?  That might be another avenue to consider...

Edited June 10, 2014 by sayjo

[nightwolf1129]

SLPM23,

 

I cannot begin to imagine how stressful & frustrating it's been for you in your current (and unfortunate) situation.  If I may offer some words of encouragement:  I served 8 1/2 yrs in the U.S. Navy and originally joined under the Nuclear Power program (a very intensive 1 1/2 yr long program) to eventually work on a nuclear reactor onboard either a carrier or submarine.  Academics had always been a breeze for me....until I was at the tail end of the 3rd and final phase of the program.  I made it to week 25 of 26 weeks before failing out (over a year and a half of school).  I lost my $8000 enlistment bonus because I failed out of the program and was sent to the fleet feeling like a failure.  Though a door had been slammed in my face, God (through His grace and mercy) opened several others for me.  As someone who's made my fair share of mistakes, I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it wasn't for those mistakes.  I'm a stronger person because of it.  And though I know it's frustrating when you've spent the past 3 yrs in an intensive SLP program only to be kicked out, my sincere hope is that you can see the growth and learning potential from this experience.  Whether you do decide to reapply to SLP or an MSW program, I cannot encourage you enough to continue improving yourself and seeking the support of services such as those at a counseling or academic center.  MSW programs are equally (if not more so) intensive as SLP programs due to the field placement requirement along with a full academic load.  If you are seriously interested in pursuing a career in social work, please don't hesitate to contact me.

[SLPM23]

Thanks everyone for the supportive comments and advice. MSW was something I was considering. I think I'm going to stick with an MEd as of now in special education and work as a developmental specialist in the meantime. Yes my state uses SLPA which is another thing I will see if I can do. I'll probably look into trying to apply to another less competetive SLP program, but it will be really hard. The program I was in is extremely competetive and they said they basically wouldnt take me if I re-applied because of that, which was just another blow to self esteem. I just keep trying to remind myself that this must have happened for a reason, whether it be to learn that I need to try even harder than what I was doing or go in a slightly different direction.

 

I appreciate the advice.

[Slp111]

Hey! I have a very similar situation. I was accepted into a program and completed one year of slp masters but didn't meet the GPA requirement to continue. I don't know what to do! I want to continue and apply to other schools but I don't know if theres any hope that they would look past my mistakes. I received 2 C+ and that got me kicked out. Im extremely discouraged and hope to find more clarity. I do have some time before applying so I can still volunteer or something but all I can do besides that is keep my fingers crossed. Does anybody know if schools would accept the credits I already have? Any advice or encouragement appreciated. 

[Ocmisenheime]

@slp11 jus curious as to what school this was and what your credentials were to get into that school? I bet some schools will take the credits earned so long as they meet THEIR gpa requirements. Don't give up!!! The next school to give you a chance, seek guidance from professors the second you are unable to keep up with the work!! Xo

[Sunny1234]

This just happened to me, too.. I'm still figuring out what my next step is, and am now looking into schools that I could apply to for Fall 2016. It's really frustrating, though, that I did this to myself, I can't help wondering the what-ifs, etc. I'm also not sure at this point if I would be accepted with some not-so-great grades. I hope everything works out for you!

[CBG321]

Sorry about your situation, it sounds like it has been a rough year!  I'm not sure what the options are right now but I wouldn't stay away from other programs just from a lack of "prestigiousness" nobody is really going to care about what your occupation (or program) is as long as you are happy and fulfilled in it.  I'm personally more impressed with someone happy in their line of work and successful over workaholic businessmen or doctors who perhaps have more traditional "prestige."  

I wonder if there are any other ways to challenge that D because it does sound like a really unethical situation and although students are held to high gpa standards once in graduate school teachers need to be transparent about your grades I feel like that grade could be challenged i'm just unsure what the channel to do that would be.

 

Would you mind saying which program you were at so others can avoid it?  Haha or if you don't want to mention on here PM me?  They sound like a program that is not incredibly supportive...

[mr479]

Obviously, you should apply again with no mention of your attendance at un-said university. While for some people this is dishonest, I personally believe that your past is nobody's business but your own. I also see no other option for you. The only hurdle you may run into is getting financial aid. Universities claim that you must send ALL transcripts, but I found this to be not true. It may be a risk, but it's one worth taking if you have no other options. Good luck.

[.letmeinplz//]

Obviously, you should apply again with no mention of your attendance at un-said university. While for some people this is dishonest, I personally believe that your past is nobody's business but your own. I also see no other option for you. The only hurdle you may run into is getting financial aid. Universities claim that you must send ALL transcripts, but I found this to be not true. It may be a risk, but it's one worth taking if you have no other options. Good luck.

Your past is other people's business when you represent the program/"peoples". I doubt Jared will get a spokesperson job anytime soon. 

If you get caught in that lie you are going to be removed from yet another program, be honest (a quality humanity needs to cherish again).

Edited September 3, 2015 by <ian>

[mr479]

Your past is other people's business when you represent the program/"peoples". I doubt Jared will get a spokesperson job anytime soon. 

I couldn't disagree more. Your education should not be on a permanent record. We are one of the few countries that keeps tabs on people the way we do in this domain. It's reminiscent of the East German Stasi.

But, unfortunately, if caught, one would be removed, yes.

In an unfair system like ours, sometimes being "dishonest" is the only option. I personally don't find this unethical because it is subversive of a system that needs changing.

 

Edited September 4, 2015 by Pennsatucky

[Jolie717]

I couldn't disagree more. Your education should not be on a permanent record. We are one of the few countries that keeps tabs on people the way we do in this domain. It's reminiscent of the East German Stasi.

But, unfortunately, if caught, one would be removed, yes.

In an unfair system like ours, sometimes being "dishonest" is the only option. I personally don't find this unethical because it is subversive of a system that needs changing.

 

I completely agree that the system needs to be changed.  I have a friend who had a rough childhood, disfunctional family, drugs, cut classes, crashed a car and the list goes on.  Applied to a university only because his father said he was kicked out of the house if he didn't.  So he purposefully applied to an aeronautical program knowing his "stats" from high school wouldn't suffice.  To his surprise he got in, with honors, thanks to his stellar SATs (he's a brilliant guy - just hated and was bored with school.)

He hated the major and flunked out.  When he was actually ready to go back to school, he breezed through a local community college, got into a prestigious university, worked his ass off and went on to earn his PhD at Harvard in Organic Chemistry.  And yes, the university he flunked out of was left off of his apps. 

I have a hard hard time swallowing the notion that when someone messes up, doors should be slammed in their faces for life.  It's ridiculous, really.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jolie717

[Jolie717]

Ian -

I'm sorry, but "Jared from Subway" who is facing criminal charges is so far removed from "an SLP student that had a tough year" that I am truly struggling to think as to why you would have ever brought that into this discussion.  I could not possibly have thought of a worse analogy if I had tried.  

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jolie717

[Eigen]

I completely agree that the system needs to be changed.  I have a friend who had a rough childhood, disfunctional family, drugs, cut classes, crashed a car and the list goes on.  Applied to a university only because his father said he was kicked out of the house if he didn't.  So he purposefully applied to an aeronautical program knowing his "stats" from high school wouldn't suffice.  To his surprise he got in, with honors, thanks to his stellar SATs (he's a brilliant guy - just hated and was bored with school.)

He hated the major and flunked out.  When he was actually ready to go back to school, he breezed through a local community college, got into a prestigious university, worked his ass off and went on to earn his PhD at Harvard in Organic Chemistry.  And yes, the university he flunked out of was left off of his apps. 

I have a hard hard time swallowing the notion that when someone messes up, doors should be slammed in their faces for life.  It's ridiculous, really.

So he lied, and benefited from it, and it could end up costing him as well as other people that he got in over.

Additionally, the lie probably wasn't necessary. Most chemistry programs don't care that much about early bad years if you've recovered, and I know several people that have gotten in by being honest about flunking out of a major they didn't like.

If you get found to have lied on your apps while in school, every single school considers that grounds for immediate dismissal from the program. And for good reason. Be honest, show improvement, and let everyone be judged on an even field.

[Jolie717]

So he lied, and benefited from it, and it could end up costing him as well as other people that he got in over.

Additionally, the lie probably wasn't necessary. Most chemistry programs don't care that much about early bad years if you've recovered, and I know several people that have gotten in by being honest about flunking out of a major they didn't like.

If you get found to have lied on your apps while in school, every single school considers that grounds for immediate dismissal from the program. And for good reason. Be honest, show improvement, and let everyone be judged on an even field.

There is no such thing as an even field.  Chemistry is probably pretty different from SLP, from what I've seen.  And if you're correct, much more forgiving.  I am not saying people *should* lie, merely that he did.  Mostly I am saying the system is flawed.  I'm not sure how it is done better in other countries - thoughts, Pennsatucky???  I do know some countries are much more restrictive than ours, where students are weeded out of further education even earlier on (high school age).  Which I find appalling.

And I agree - you are absolutely right that anyone choosing to omit information risks being discovered and kicked out of the program.  

[Eigen]

Why do you think the system is flawed just because it takes into account your background?

Why should an admissions committee not take into account the bad parts of someones background? To flip it around, why should it not be a benefit to have had a rough time of things and persevered and done well?

You're making statements about the state of the system without backing them up.

[bhr]

As someone who dropped a school off my transcript (attended at 17, did poorly, never tried to transfer my few earned credits, I don't see a problem with it (under some circumstances). There is no reason that a student who dropped out of school, like the last example, should need to include credits that they don't claim and have nothing to do with their current studies. College doesn't appear on a standard background search or credit pull, and a school has no reason to ever find out about it.

 

Now, if you fail out of one program in a field and try to apply elsewhere, that's a completely different issue. The chances in a small community of it coming up, or of running into someone from your former program, are pretty high. Plus, the school has an interest in knowing if someone has wasted an investment in you before (and why it failed).

 

I know plenty of people who have kept old jobs off resumes when there isn't a good reference and the time gap isn't long, and don't see a problem with it either.

[Jolie717]

Why do you think the system is flawed just because it takes into account your background?

Why should an admissions committee not take into account the bad parts of someones background? To flip it around, why should it not be a benefit to have had a rough time of things and persevered and done well?

You're making statements about the state of the system without backing them up.

I never said it was flawed because it takes your background into account.  I haven't really put much effort into analyzing higher education in our country (yet) as my two children are elementary-aged.  I am far more interested in and invested in how and why we are failing our young children in the US education system at this point.

But since you brought it up, here are two things in the admissions process that I find "flawed," right off the top of my head.  I know there are likely many more but I don't have time to delve into any further research at this moment.  

1) GREs have been shown to not be indicative of a grad student's potential for success in grad school.  And yet these scores are highly emphasized and serve as a cut-off point in the admissions process.  

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/study-graduate-record-exam-shows-it-does-little-predict-graduate-school-success

I realize this reference is pretty old - but if you dig a bit I'm sure you could find more recent research.  Both Yale and Berkeley have done studies along these lines as well, if I remember correctly.  I believe there have also been studies showing that the GRE is biased against women, people of color and those with lower socio-economic backgrounds.

2) As mentioned by the previous poster, I think there should be a limit as to how far back a prospective student is required to go when reporting grades - similar to a resume.  I haven't looked up any research along these lines, it just seems like common sense to me.  

I also find it funny that grades and test scores are the gold standard and yet in the "ultimate" challenge, gaining employment post-graduation, they fall by the wayside.  Have you or anyone you know ever been asked to provide transcripts at a job interview?  At any rate, the OPs situation is different than that of my friend's.  In his/her case I am imagining they will have to somehow work to prove that they are "worthy" again, and re-apply to less rigorous programs if still interested in SLP.

In an ideal world, it would be great if institutions took it into account whenever a student who had a rough time managed to flip it around.  But please don't tell me you are so naive as to believe that (many if not most) universities don't already have certain cut-offs in place that would automatically disqualify many of these applicants from ever having their applications see the light of day?  It's a potentially life-altering gamble for some.

[Eigen]

You bring up grades and GRE scores, which in most fields are the least important parts of an application. By far.

Sometimes they can serve as cut-offs, but while sub-par grades/scores might keep you out of a school, even amazing grades and GRE scores won't get you in. What will get you in is the ability to interview well, a good SoP, good research background, and great letters of recommendation.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with graduate school applications (you say you haven't done much research on higher education, and I'm guessing you aren't currently in grad school?), but I'm not familiar with any program that has such hard cutoffs that many people would be tossed out completely. The ones that do are very low- say, sub 2.5 GPAs, and work on the assumption that you can find someone with average grades and excellent non-classroom credentials.

[Jolie717]

You bring up grades and GRE scores, which in most fields are the least important parts of an application. By far.

Sometimes they can serve as cut-offs, but while sub-par grades/scores might keep you out of a school, even amazing grades and GRE scores won't get you in. What will get you in is the ability to interview well, a good SoP, good research background, and great letters of recommendation.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with graduate school applications (you say you haven't done much research on higher education, and I'm guessing you aren't currently in grad school?), but I'm not familiar with any program that has such hard cutoffs that many people would be tossed out completely. The ones that do are very low- say, sub 2.5 GPAs, and work on the assumption that you can find someone with average grades and excellent non-classroom credentials.

When I said I hadn't done much research on higher education - I meant *critiquing* the system, LOL, not what it will take me (or others) to get into my major!  This is too funny - in person I think we would have a good convo, but seriously, our majors are so different that I'm beginning to think that further discussion on this particular forum is a bit of a lost cause at this juncture.  

If you want to educate yourself further, look into the shortage of SLP programs due to the shortage of PhDs in our field, and then look into grad school acceptance rates overall for SLP.  Compare it to other fields.  That *might* put things into perspective.  I would hope.  

I am applying to grad school this fall, and trust me I have done more research than I probably should have at this point!  In my program, the head of the graduate admission committee has pretty much stated what they consider to be important, and this has been backed by other advisors on the committee as well.  Interviews are far and few between (where I am) - I can think of only one program in my area where an interview is required.  (And don't even get me started on the validity of interviews either - that's another can of worms altogether, with studies to back it up).  SOPs and LORs are very important I'm sure - but are much more subjective and probably very difficult to "rank" in importance.  And again, if one doesn't qualify with a certain minimum GPA and GRE, do you honestly think the admissions committee is going to be poring over all of the SOPs and LORs of applicants that happen to fall below a given standard?  Please - send me some of the good stuff that you have apparently been taking!!!  ????????

 

[Jolie717]

Why do you think the system is flawed just because it takes into account your background?

Why should an admissions committee not take into account the bad parts of someones background? To flip it around, why should it not be a benefit to have had a rough time of things and persevered and done well?

You're making statements about the state of the system without backing them up.

My bad - I probably should have put this first, a post or two ago, when I mentioned the areas I consider flawed in the grad application process:

3) The applicant "bio" page should be completely separate from the rest of the application.  Meaning the page with name, race, gender, age etc should not be visible and a part of the application packet that is being reviewed by the admissions committee.  Instead, the "bio" page should be removed and a random number should be assigned to the portion viewed and judged by the committee in order to truly make admissions "blind," so to speak.  

Fortunately some schools already do this, but many do not.

[Eigen]

When I said I hadn't done much research on higher education - I meant *critiquing* the system, LOL, not what it will take me (or others) to get into my major!  This is too funny - in person I think we would have a good convo, but seriously, our majors are so different that I'm beginning to think that further discussion on this particular forum is a bit of a lost cause at this juncture.  

If you want to educate yourself further, look into the shortage of SLP programs due to the shortage of PhDs in our field, and then look into grad school acceptance rates overall for SLP.  Compare it to other fields.  That *might* put things into perspective.  I would hope.  

I am applying to grad school this fall, and trust me I have done more research than I probably should have at this point!  In my program, the head of the graduate admission committee has pretty much stated what they consider to be important, and this has been backed by other advisors on the committee as well.  Interviews are far and few between (where I am) - I can think of only one program in my area where an interview is required.  (And don't even get me started on the validity of interviews either - that's another can of worms altogether, with studies to back it up).  SOPs and LORs are very important I'm sure - but are much more subjective and probably very difficult to "rank" in importance.  And again, if one doesn't qualify with a certain minimum GPA and GRE, do you honestly think the admissions committee is going to be poring over all of the SOPs and LORs of applicants that happen to fall below a given standard?  Please - send me some of the good stuff that you have apparently been taking!!!  ????????

 

I feel like you keep switching the field we're discussing. I originally came into this discussion when you brought up the example of someone in a Chemistry PhD program lying to get into grad school. 

SLP is a professional program, and as such tends to be much more focused on grades and GPA, sure. But I'll wager that without something else solid to back them up, they won't get you into a good school. Most professional programs have enough applicants they figure that they even if they cut off a large part of the pool, they'll still have enough applicants that meet the non-academic criteria. That doesn't make lying justified. 

As to graduate admissions, I'm intimately familiar with the process in at least my school, and quite familiar with others. It's rare that an application ever gets thrown out without looking at the rest of the package. 

Discussing the rest seems pointless, as you're confining the discussion to short professional programs, but most of your points only really apply to those, and not graduate admissions as a whole.

Also, not a fan of the insinuation that I'm so out of reality I must be on mind altering substances.