2.2 GPA, tentative 150 GRE scores in quant and verb

[mvigno2]

My name is Michael and I am currently 26 years of age. I have had quite a tough academic career (and life, for that matter, but that's personal/complicated). Here are the details I am willing to divulge:

 

I have struggled with moderately severe Dyslexia and ADD all my life, never officially got diagnosed until this year because I didn't want to "label" myself in high school/college or "take time away from those who actually need extra attention (this was stupid, because it ended up shooting me in the foot, as I could have received various accommodations on exams).

 

Originally, I attended Western Illinois University until transferring to The University of Illinois at Chicago in 2009 where I obtained a B.A. in Psychology in 2011 with an overall GPA of 2.2. I managed to get a couple good semesters worth of research experience in the Physiological Psychology Lab (I straddled Philosophy and Neuroscience toward my 5th and final year).

 

Since 2011, I have done no internships nor volunteering, although, I have worked several jobs (it was hard for me to stay interested and focused, so I kept being "let go"): server for T.G.I. Fridays, desk-attendant for Loyola University Chicago, operator for an over-the-phone marketing research firm, two different law offices, etc. 

 

This month I will coordinate with former-professors to get 2 (maybe 3) letters of recommendation. I am planning to take the GRE this month as well. After taking a Kaplan Prep Course, I am likely to get something in the 50th or 60th percentile (150 - 155ish range). My goal in taking the GRE is to show that my below-average GPA does not represent my full potential. Unfortunately, my prospective GRE scores don't look too much better in comparison... Finally, I  can see myself writing a killer Personal Statement (where I will have the chance to exemplify my creativity and resiliency; hence the obstacles I have overcome during my lifetime) and doing very well during the interview. I have always prided myself in my speaking ability and people-skills.

 

I hope to get into a Social-Psychology PhD program somewhere in the U.S. and study "group decision-making". I'm not particularly picky where I want to enroll. I'm mostly struggling to find places that are likely to accept me with the above mentioned (shoddy) credentials. Right now I'm looking at The University of South Florida as a base-line, is that a good place to start?

 

General questions: how does one find grad programs that accept relatively low GPAs? Is there a website that hosts separate statistics from that of undergraduate and graduate acceptance rates? Also, how does one research a university's alumni success and job outlook? Is Social-Psychology a lucrative field to go into? Will admissions boards laugh at me upon seeing my application? Am I absolutely nuts to think I can do this? Should I just cut my losses and join the Peace Corp?

 

 

Please help,

Michael

 

[GeoDUDE!]

You should read Jeff Erikson's blog post about how he got into a PhD program with a 2.4/4.0 GPA. He is now a full professor at a top 5 Computer Science department and half his students are at tenure track positions.

 

Though it seems the climate was favorable for a guy like him; today it seems your path will be hard.

 

Also, the Peace Corps are hard to get into as well. Its not some 'slam dunk' sign up and go join. Most people do not get accepted into the Peace Corps.

[PsychGirl1]

If I were you, this is what I would do (just my opinion):

 

I'd strongly consider enrolling in a 2-year, full-time, research-based master's program with a thesis option before applying to PhD programs. Hopefully with your issues addressed (you are in treatment for both, hopefully?), you will be able to maintain a higher GPA in the master's program than in ugrad, and get some posters, conference presentations, and publications. Also, the additional LORs will help you a lot.

 

While at the master's program, I'd suggest you network very strongly. You'll need to have a little extra oomph in your package, and having professors know your name might make the difference between your file getting thrown out on the first pass or not.

 

I know that in this stage of the game, people just want to get in ANYWHERE to begin their career. But keep in mind that the choices you make now can follow you throughout your career and life. In my opinion, it's worth an extra two years to improve your application (and therefore career) that much more.

[lewin]

I think you're better off finding another career. I apologize in advance for being really harsh here, but you've written several things that suggest you might not have the aptitude or background for PhD work, and included a few serious misconceptions about the field. Of course, I don't know you--so disregard if you like--but here are the details.

 

 

 

I have struggled with moderately severe Dyslexia and ADD all my life, never officially got diagnosed until this year because I didn't want to "label" myself in high school/college or "take time away from those who actually need extra attention (this was stupid, because it ended up shooting me in the foot, as I could have received various accommodations on exams).

 

Are you sure these problems are behind you? You yourself might be convinced that your record doesn't reflect your ability--and maybe that's true, I don't know you--but graduate schools won't take your word for it. They need to see a proven track record. Like, years of stellar work.  Once I hired an RA whose academic record was spotty because he had some chronic illness issues that he assured me were behind him. I gave him a chance and he repeatedly missed work because of illness. Maybe he was really sick--and I was sympathetic--but I still needed the work to get done. Why should I take a chance on someone when there are many other qualified candidates that don't require taking a risk?

 

Also, GPA doesn't just reflect capacity for learning but also whether you have the necessary knowledge to move on to more advanced work. Even if you could have done better if you'd been accommodated/diagnosed at the time, the fact remains that a low GPA suggests you might have missed much of the material that you should have learned and would need to succeed at the graduate level. 

 

 

 

 

 

how does one find grad programs that accept relatively low GPAs? 

 

In the graduate school context, a "relatively low GPA" means 3.0 instead of 3.9. I think the 2.4 gpa case linked above was a one-in-a-million shot.

 

 

 

I have done no internships nor volunteering, although, I have worked several jobs (it was hard for me to stay interested and focused, so I kept being "let go"): server for T.G.I. Fridays, desk-attendant for Loyola University Chicago, operator for an over-the-phone marketing research firm, two different law offices, etc.    This month I will coordinate with former-professors to get 2 (maybe 3) letters of recommendation

 

Non-academic work doesn't count, don't even mention it in any of your application materials or it will look like you don't know the norms.

 

Also... are you sure your reference letters will be positive? They need to be stellar. I ask this because the record of being let go in other jobs suggests that you might also have had problems (about which you're unaware) in the research jobs. When you ask for reference letters, I would pay close attention for subtle or not-so-subtle cues that they're reluctant to write them. You also graduated a few years ago.... by now their memories of you might be fuzzy and the letters would lack the necessary details that make a good letter.

 

 

 

 

After taking a Kaplan Prep Course, I am likely to get something in the 50th or 60th percentile (150 - 155ish range). My goal in taking the GRE is to show that my below-average GPA does not represent my full potential. Unfortunately, my prospective GRE scores don't look too much better in comparison...

 

This is just not high enough. Many programs require 80th percentile or higher. Put off writing and study longer. A score in the 50th percentile would just confirm that your GPA accurately reflects your knowledge and abilities, and not in a good way.

 

 

 

 

Finally, I  can see myself writing a killer Personal Statement (where I will have the chance to exemplify my creativity and resiliency; hence the obstacles I have overcome during my lifetime) and doing very well during the interview. I have always prided myself in my speaking ability and people-skills.

 

This one of the misconceptions about the application process that I mentioned above. This is not what a personal statement should be about. It should be about how you developed your research interests, what you've done about them (in a concrete way), and your plans for pursuing that research in the future. I would look for a trusted professor who can read your statement before sending out. 

 

 

 

 

 Is Social-Psychology a lucrative field to go into?

 

No. Very few PhDs get their coveted tenure track jobs and if that's not your goal, you're better off taking another path. A new assistant professor might make $60-80k starting but those positions are rare and getting rarer. Nobody goes into academia for the money.

 

 

 

There's no shame in doing something other than grad school. Many times I wish I'd done something different and I regularly ask myself whether it's time to cut out of academia and find something else--and I started in a much better position than you're in now. The field is tough and getting worse so, based on what you've written, I can say with almost complete certainty that you'll be better off choosing something else to do. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but maybe it'll save you a lot of time and anguish in the future.

[Grimnir]

This is just not high enough. Many programs require 80th percentile or higher. Put off writing and study longer. A score in the 50th percentile would just confirm that your GPA accurately reflects your knowledge and abilities, and not in a good way.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "many", but the average admitted GRE for a social science graduate program is 155 to 160 for both sections and an overall of 310 to 320 from my research unless you are applying to schools ranked 10 to 15. As an example, the median GRE of students entering UPenn's psychology program is 162V/160Q.

 

That being said, I agree with your assessment of the OP.

Another career might be a better choice for you OP and will save you a lot of fruitless work.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Grimnir

[lewin]

Not sure what you mean by "many", but the average admitted GRE for a social science graduate program is 155 to 160 for both sections and an overall of 310 to 320 from my research unless you are applying to schools ranked 10 to 15. As an example, the median GRE of students entering UPenn's psychology program is 162V/160Q.

 

You're right, I probably shouldn't have said "many", though that was typical of the programs I was considering. Also, this is telling of my age, but I did the GRE on the old scoring system (690/740) and I have NO heuristics for what makes a good score on the new scale.

Edited September 21, 2014 by lewin

[juilletmercredi]

I'm not going to say you should consider a another career field, OP, but I don't disagree with the folks who have suggested it.  Moreso I think that you are going to have to do a lot of work in the interim to make yourself attractive to PhD programs.

 

First of all, no, there is no website that hosts separate statistics.  You have to look at each program individually.  Few programs advertise their average GPAs and GREs, and when they do, they are generally in the 3.5 range and the 600s-700s range (on the old GRE).  I think a 155 on each section is like the minimum that you want to score; with a low GPA, you really want to push into the 160s if possible.  No PhD program is going to openly advertise that they accept people with low GPAs (and, as someone already pointed out, "low" means a 3.0 or 3.1 instead of a 3.6 or so).

 

With alumni success - a few schools will have lists of where their recent alumni have ended up.  Most do not.  The best way is to ask the departmental secretary about placement rates in the last few years.

 

Is social psychology lucrative?  If you mean financially remunerative - no, not very, not relative to the amount of time you have to put into training.

 

Basically, in order to give yourself a shot you will need to prove that you have the ability to undertake graduate level work and that you have grown and matured past your undergraduate mediocrity.  Furthermore, you need to show that you have sharp skills in research in the area.  You have not worked in the field in 3 years.  So you have a lot of work to do.

 

One way that you could, potentially, do this is get a job as a lab manager at a psychology lab (or related one - like a psychiatry or public health lab).  In this role, not only will you be getting research experience but you can also probably take some graduate-level classes for free as part of your job benefits.  Given your history you will need more time at this - I would say at least 3 solid years.  If you do this and get some As in grad classes and glowing recommendation from your PI, that could go a long way towards helping.

 

If you are unable to get this kind of job, you may be able to find another research associate position (market research, think tank, nonprofit) and then take graduate courses as a non-degree student at a nearby university.  You will have to pay.  But you really need to take a few classes and show that you can get As.

 

Basically, you need to re-start your research experience and show that you still have a passion and that you know the skills.  You also need to study for the GRE and get those scores  up, given your low ugrad GPA.

 

You will need 3 letters of recommendation.  So if you can only get 2, you will need to do something to get a third (take a class, volunteer in a lab, etc.)

 

Also

 

Finally, I  can see myself writing a killer Personal Statement (where I will have the chance to exemplify my creativity and resiliency; hence the obstacles I have overcome during my lifetime)

 

Please do NOT do this.  Your personal statement is not the time to exemplify your creativity and resilience.  Nor is it time to discuss the obstacles you have overcome.  Academics roll their eyes at these types of statements.  Instead, your personal statement is where you discuss 1) your prior academic professional experiences - research experience, primarily - and how they have uniquely prepared you to undertake a PhD and led to your interest in group decision-making; 2) your current interests, and why X university will be an excellent fit for you given your interests and prior experiences, and 3) briefly, what your career goals are and how X university can help you get there.  Think of it like an academic cover letter.  You do not want to draw attention to your shortcomings.

 

I know you said this tongue-in-cheek, but I also want to point out that the Peace Corps is also very competitive these days!

Edited September 23, 2014 by juilletmercredi

[citypsych]

OP, as someone who has read many, many graduate applications, I agree generally with the posters who are encouraging you to slow down and think about the best plan forward. Given your low GPA, moderate projected GRE scores, relative absence of quality research experience, and what sounds like a lack of certainty of your actual interest in pursuing a degree in social psychology, my advice to you is:

 

1. You need to demonstrate your ability to do well in basic academic coursework. Enroll in a general psychology masters program that requires a thesis. Do well (3.6ish +) in your classes.

 

2. You need to have solid research experience. Get and keep prolonged, high quality research involvement. Pick one lab, and work on developing and deepening your skills in that one lab. You need both the in depth experience and the ability to show that you can sustain a high level of work over a 2 year period (or longer).

 

3. You need to score as well on the GRE as you can. Take more time to prepare. Expensive courses aren't necessary, especially given you have already taken one (so you already know whatever strategies they recommend). Buy one or several prep books, study regularly, and take many practice tests. Percentile doesn't matter as much as the actual score - find out what the average scores are for social psychology (note: the scores that programs report for clinical psychology applicants might be different) and aim for that.

 

4. You need to have a stronger idea of what you want to pursue in graduate school and why you want to pursue it. Be sure to take a range of classes that will help you better understand your interest areas, but also read broadly (e.g., journal articles).

 

I also don't want to discourage you if you decide that this really is what you want to do, but your current record will not be competitive for any doctoral programs. It isn't that YOU aren't good enough, necessarily, it's that so many of the other applicants will have much stronger applications, and the numbers just don't work in your favor.