PhD in Psychology for non-psychology majors, any success stories?

[brokepocket27]

Hey everyone

 

I am new to this forum and I have a somewhat unusual story to share. 

I am currently enrolled in a fully funded master's program in economics at a pretty good university here in the US. Even though I am enjoying some parts of the program (mostly the research part), I have started questioning myself whether this is the track I would like to pursue after this program. I actually see myself as a researcher and/or in a teaching job, but I am not sure whether choosing an economics PhD and then pursuing a career in economics is something I see myself doing for the rest of my life. To cut it short, I am interested in psychology but for some reason I have never really thought of it as a career before. This changed when I came to grad school. The university at which I am currently studying happens to have one of the top psychology programs in the country and some of the finest faculty. 

 

My interests lie in developmental psychology and clinical psychology, or even developmental psychopathology. At some point in my life I used to work as a teaching assistant with children in schools for several years including some with special needs. Ideally I would like to build on my past experience.

 

Currently I am doing two RA roles, one in my own economics department and another one (unpaid) in the developmental lab (I convinced the lab coordinator to give me a position for this term to get some exposure to psychological research). My GPA in the first term was 3.67 (I was struggling a lot, both to get into the studying mode after years of working and then to adjust to the US, I am an international student btw). However I am confident that this term will be better for me. My old GRE scores were 159V, 159Q and 5.5 AW. I am fine to retake them in the future if these do not make the cut for good psychology programs. 

 

 

Skills I can bring to a psychology PhD program will be research experience- both in economics and psychology (given that RAing continues up to summer 2016) - data collection, data analysis-, some hard stats (both theory and applied) and math classes (calculus 1-3, linear algebra, differential equations), survey design/analysis, knowledge of STATA and SPSS; and hopefully a strong GPA in my current program. I consider taking a few core classes in psychology until the applications are due and do well. As long as I am at this university,  I am planning to get involved in other labs as well - particularly with some faculty active in clinical/ developmental psychopathology; at this stage this is just a goal. 

 

Some of my weaknesses in getting admitted into a PhD in psychology are: no major in psychology, no thesis focusing on psychological research, and obviously no publications in the field. I will probably have a good quantitative/economics background and probably one econ publication until I finish the program but I reckon this may be of no use to psychology grad programs.

 

Any advice? any tips? Do you think this is pointless? Are there any other things I can do to strengthen my application? I am applying for Fall 2016 so there is some time left ..   I also want to add that as an international student on an F1 visa, the prospect of getting a full-time lab research assistant position after my studies looks daunting because international students need employer sponsorship and I cannot see it happening for this kind of role. 

 

anyone else has been or currently is in the same position? anyone who has beaten the odds and got into a great program? Would love to hear from you guys...

 

thanks in advance

Edited February 9, 2015 by brokepocket27

[VulpesZerda]

First tip for you is to take the Psych GRE. I didn't take it, but it's a must for your situation, to display your psychology knowledge. Your GRE scores are better than mine, but I didn't go for top programs or clinical, so maybe retake the general if you can. Maybe you could try to put together a psychology writing sample, such as a review paper. Attend psychology conferences and network - jot down any memberships on your CV. Psychology and economics are closely related and I don't even think people would think this jump is very unusual!

[spunky]

well, i got into my program coming from a BSc in Mathematics with just a hint of scattered psych courses here and there. i'm not sure how similar our situations are though because my field (Quantitative Psychology) looks a lot more like Statistics than Psychology itself... so my major actually helped my application. nevertheless i got a pretty awesome score in the Psych GRE so i think that's probably what helped me seal the deal (which is more or less what VulpesZerda said). 

[Sujie]

Clinical programs are very competitive, even at mediocre schools. I think your work experience and future involvement in psych labs would be a great benefit (especially if you can manage to co-author a paper). I think it would be better to retake GRE,although you writing score is good enough as it is. Agree with the others, you really need to take psych GRE (and score > 740).It would be nice if your LORs will be from psychology professors who will be able to say that you have all the skills and knowledge needed to become a clinical psychologist. Good luck!

[brokepocket27]

thanks a lot for your input. What I take from here is that among other things I should take the Psychology GRE and score high; also consider re-taking the general test. 

 

I have a few questions:

 

1) how do non-psychology grads prepare for the Psyc GRE? Do they use textbooks to cover the tested material? I have read about this test, and there is a book released by the ETS that provides some practice. But I reckon this wont be enough to excel in the test? 

 

2) What scores in the general GRE test would be considered competitive enough for a PhD in clinical/developmental psychology?

 

3)  Do you think that getting outside clinical experience would strengthen my applications? The limitation with this one is that I live in a small town and the opportunities are few and far between. But I intend to search and see what's available. 

 

4) In terms of co-authoring a paper, I am not sure how things in the lab are in this regard as I only joined the lab last week. This may be a pretty silly question, but how do people (especially someone in my position) go about this and be successful? From what I have seen in this lab so far, the PhD students are the ones that write up the research reports and the others (mostly inexperienced undergrads) are mostly involved in admin work and at times participate in the actual experiments and data collection. As I said, i am new to this world, any tips would be appreciated. 

[BCB]

 

1) how do non-psychology grads prepare for the Psyc GRE? Do they use textbooks to cover the tested material? I have read about this test, and there is a book released by the ETS that provides some practice. But I reckon this wont be enough to excel in the test? 

 

2) What scores in the general GRE test would be considered competitive enough for a PhD in clinical/developmental psychology?

 

1) I majored in finance and read a college-level intro to psychology textbook cover to cover and got in the 90-something percentile. I did feel like it didn't prepare me for the neuroscience portion as well as it could, so I probably would have read more on that if I could go back and re-do it.

 

2) Clinical is known for being one of the hardest to get into. Obviously the higher score the better, but maybe 165/165 would be good targets?

 

 

 

 

Any advice? any tips? Do you think this is pointless? Are there any other things I can do to strengthen my application? I am applying for Fall 2016 so there is some time left ..   I also want to add that as an international student on an F1 visa, the prospect of getting a full-time lab research assistant position after my studies looks daunting because international students need employer sponsorship and I cannot see it happening for this kind of role. 

 

 

 

I knew getting a full-time research position would be next to impossible when I was going through this, so I got research experience through working a finance-related job full-time and volunteering (and then later was paid) at a research position on the side. Maybe you could do something similar.

 

I would say in general that you need to have a compelling story why you got to the point where you have a masters degree in economics before you realized you wanted to do clinical/development psychology. I got asked that a lot, and I only have a bachelors in finance. They want to make sure you're not going to jump ship again and pursue a different career path in a few years.

 

If you're serious though, I think it's definitely possible. I'm in a different psychology field (I/O), but I've gotten into four top-tier programs so far, including my top choice.

 

Good luck! 

[student896]

Most of the schools I applied to asked for not only academic/research skills references, but clinical recommendations from professors who could speak on behalf of my ability to succeed as a practitioner and had observed me work with clinical populations. Definitely get involved with a lab where you can collect from clinical populations and have a professor speak to that experience.

[brokepocket27]

@bcaitlin: you are definitely right I mean, it will be easy if I wanted to get into behavioural economics or even I/O but for clinical I need to think of a different strategy. Since I worked with children for a few years before and loved it, I thought I could perhaps build a case for developmental psychopathology. But I need much more than what I already have to make a compelling argument. The other danger is yes, the admissions committee may think I keep changing career tracks which is pretty bad and needs a lot of work to convince them otherwise. Thanks for bringing these important points up. Much appreciated. 

 

Just being curious: how did you manage to hold a full-time job in finance and volunteer in a research lab simultaneously? This is sheer madness and even then, how did you overcome the time constraints?

Edited February 9, 2015 by brokepocket27

[mb712]

thanks a lot for your input. What I take from here is that among other things I should take the Psychology GRE and score high; also consider re-taking the general test. 

 

I have a few questions:

 

 

3)  Do you think that getting outside clinical experience would strengthen my applications? The limitation with this one is that I live in a small town and the opportunities are few and far between. But I intend to search and see what's available. 

 

4) In terms of co-authoring a paper, I am not sure how things in the lab are in this regard as I only joined the lab last week. This may be a pretty silly question, but how do people (especially someone in my position) go about this and be successful? From what I have seen in this lab so far, the PhD students are the ones that write up the research reports and the others (mostly inexperienced undergrads) are mostly involved in admin work and at times participate in the actual experiments and data collection. As I said, i am new to this world, any tips would be appreciated. 

 

3) Yes, definitely. Even something like an internship/volunteer work for a clinician would not only boost your resume but also give you a good idea of the kind of work a clinician does which may or may not persuade your decision to pursue clinical psychology. (I did something similar, it swayed me away from clinical. On the other hand, my coworker in the same position fell in love with clinical work and is applying to clinical programs this application season.)

 

4) Go about what? Co-authoring a paper? If that's the case, once you get settled into the lab and get a feel for how things work, be honest with someone in charge. Tell them you would like to contribute the most you possibly can, and that you're also interested in any publication opportunities. You'll very quickly be able to tell whether or not this is a possibility for you at your current lab. Since you're working with limited time, this may not be realistic but it's worth asking.

[BCB]

 

Just being curious: how did you manage to hold a full-time job in finance and volunteer in a research lab simultaneously? This is sheer madness and even then, how did you overcome the time constraints?

 

I had a totally boring/normal 40 hours a week office job, and I was fortunate enough that they didn't mind if I went to my lab meeting for a couple hours a week (and make up the hours another day) so I could see everyone in the lab in person and beg for more research tasks to do. That was the only time I had to be on campus, unless I needed SPSS for something. Then I just worked on whatever I'd been assigned from the lab in the evenings/weekends, and it wasn't that bad. Definitely couldn't have done it while being an 80-hour-a-week investment banking job or anything, haha. 

 

Just something I wanted to mention, since a lot of the psych majors here probably wouldn't be a good fit for office jobs like that, but if you're in economics it might be a possibility to keep food on the table.

[brokepocket27]

I have a question for those of you who are currently volunteering or have volunteered in a lab. What kind of work have you guys done? Have you been able to work closely with a faculty member on some research project? Have you been given the opportunity to come up with ideas of your own? Is it common for volunteers not to have access to professors and thus work with PhD students instead on their research projects and get recommendations from them? 

[CogPsych2015]

I have a question for those of you who are currently volunteering or have volunteered in a lab. What kind of work have you guys done? Have you been able to work closely with a faculty member on some research project? Have you been given the opportunity to come up with ideas of your own? Is it common for volunteers not to have access to professors and thus work with PhD students instead on their research projects and get recommendations from them? 

That is going to depend a lot school by school and even lab by lab. I've been in the same research lab since my freshman year. My first year or so, I really only had meaningful interactions with the graduate students. I saw the PIs at lab meetings, but didn't talk to them (or, have a reason to talk to them) outside of the lab. After a few presentations and more effort on my part at lab meetings and as a general lab citizen, I was given a project to manage. After another bit of time, a successful project, and another few presentations, I've been able to help this year with more of my own project. By my own, I mean that I've been involved in idea generation, project management, and data analysis. Basically, from start to finish. But, I really had to earn that trust and respect from my mentors and put in the time. However, I have friends who have never really interacted with their PIs. I've also had some who were more involved almost from day one. Like I said, it absolutely, 100% depends on each individual lab. 

[Sujie]

thanks a lot for your input. What I take from here is that among other things I should take the Psychology GRE and score high; also consider re-taking the general test. 

 

I have a few questions:

 

1) how do non-psychology grads prepare for the Psyc GRE? Do they use textbooks to cover the tested material? I have read about this test, and there is a book released by the ETS that provides some practice. But I reckon this wont be enough to excel in the test? 

 

2) What scores in the general GRE test would be considered competitive enough for a PhD in clinical/developmental psychology?

 

3)  Do you think that getting outside clinical experience would strengthen my applications? The limitation with this one is that I live in a small town and the opportunities are few and far between. But I intend to search and see what's available. 

 

4) In terms of co-authoring a paper, I am not sure how things in the lab are in this regard as I only joined the lab last week. This may be a pretty silly question, but how do people (especially someone in my position) go about this and be successful? From what I have seen in this lab so far, the PhD students are the ones that write up the research reports and the others (mostly inexperienced undergrads) are mostly involved in admin work and at times participate in the actual experiments and data collection. As I said, i am new to this world, any tips would be appreciated.

1. I would recommend buying a GRE prep book in order to know what topics you need to know. But for you it will be difficult to memorize everything at once. What I did is listening to YouTube videos on various topics. For instance, there is an into psych course from Yale taught by Paul Bloom, it is funny and covers a lot of different topics as well. In order to memorized clinical theories I listened to interviews of famous clinical psychologists. You can find anything there, it a great tool, which is free as well.

3. Any outside experience is great. If you can get it, that will be perfect

4. I didn't have to ask to become a co-author: I just signed up to be a part of a research team. A product of our research was an article, and our names were listed as co-authors. But publishing does take long, I agree with the previous comment. It can take a year before the article will actually be published. But if it was already accepted, you can safely write in your CV that the article is (in press).

[yellowmint]

thanks a lot for your input. What I take from here is that among other things I should take the Psychology GRE and score high; also consider re-taking the general test. 

 

I have a few questions:

 

1) how do non-psychology grads prepare for the Psyc GRE? Do they use textbooks to cover the tested material? I have read about this test, and there is a book released by the ETS that provides some practice. But I reckon this wont be enough to excel in the test? 

 

2) What scores in the general GRE test would be considered competitive enough for a PhD in clinical/developmental psychology?

 

3)  Do you think that getting outside clinical experience would strengthen my applications? The limitation with this one is that I live in a small town and the opportunities are few and far between. But I intend to search and see what's available. 

 

4) In terms of co-authoring a paper, I am not sure how things in the lab are in this regard as I only joined the lab last week. This may be a pretty silly question, but how do people (especially someone in my position) go about this and be successful? From what I have seen in this lab so far, the PhD students are the ones that write up the research reports and the others (mostly inexperienced undergrads) are mostly involved in admin work and at times participate in the actual experiments and data collection. As I said, i am new to this world, any tips would be appreciated.

1) I like the intro to psych youtube videos someone else mentioned...the PSYC GRE won't get you in and won't keep you out, though.

2) Even with perfect scores, you'd stand a chance of an across the board rejection because clinical is so competitive. Nevertheless, the higher the better - 80th percentile on each section, minimum, would be my suggestion.

3) No, despite popular opinion, clinical experience doesn't get you far. Scratch this and focus on research. Clinical psychology is about research.

4) Varies by situation...I've worked closely with my mentor and it has never been a point of discussion - we just did it (published).

[student896]

3) No, despite popular opinion, clinical experience doesn't get you far. Scratch this and focus on research. Clinical psychology is about research.

 

I simply disagree. Clinical experience is what seperates you from someone applying to an experimental psych program. The key is just that you need both. For example, the opportunity to collect data from clinical populations and then going and analyzing this data, writing up a paper, etc. You need both. Many, many schools will ask you to have a prof speak about your clinical suitability, and the best references are from profs that can say you worked with a clinical population. Don't underestimate the importance of this! It's just that clinical experience without research experience afterwards is next to useless.

[yellowmint]

I simply disagree. Clinical experience is what seperates you from someone applying to an experimental psych program. The key is just that you need both. For example, the opportunity to collect data from clinical populations and then going and analyzing this data, writing up a paper, etc. You need both. Many, many schools will ask you to have a prof speak about your clinical suitability, and the best references are from profs that can say you worked with a clinical population. Don't underestimate the importance of this! It's just that clinical experience without research experience afterwards is next to useless.

Collecting data from a clinical sample is research experience, not clinical experience. Clinical experience involves things like shadowing clinicians. While such experience doesn't hurt an application, it isn't as important as research experience and thus if you're trying to get the most bang for your buck in a short period of time, focus on research, not clinical work.

Every clinical psychology professor I know echoes this sentiment. So that's why I say it - not just an arbitrary thing I pulled out of my hat.

Edited February 12, 2015 by yellowmint

[student896]

Clinical experience involves things like shadowing clinicians.

I've never heard of an undergrad applying to clinical programs with this type of experience. How would someone not already in a PhD program even have this kind of opportunity without personal connections?

 

What I am saying is research alone is not enough to get into a clinical program in most cases. You need to show potential ability to work with clinical populations and have someone be able to speak about this ability. The main way to get this experience is to collect data from clinical populations, which is exactly what I said. You may call this research experience, and indeed it is, but it's not the same research experience as doing a meta-analysis or having participants come in and complete a survey on a computer.

[yellowmint]

I've never heard of an undergrad applying to clinical programs with this type of experience. How would someone not already in a PhD program even have this kind of opportunity without personal connections?

What I am saying is research alone is not enough to get into a clinical program in most cases. You need to show potential ability to work with clinical populations and have someone be able to speak about this ability. The main way to get this experience is to collect data from clinical populations, which is exactly what I said. You may call this research experience, and indeed it is, but it's not the same research experience as doing a meta-analysis or having participants come in and complete a survey on a computer.

I've actually seen a ton of people get experience shadowing clinicians without having personal connections. I've done it myself.

I've also worked with clinical samples on our research projects. And, I agree, if you can get such experience that is great. But you have to be at a school where such research is going on - there are some schools where clinical profs aren't collecting data from clinical samples. It is actually easier to get experience shadowing clinicians, in most cases.

Your recommenders can also speak to your clinical potential, in part through attesting to your emotional maturity, stability, etc. Essentially, are you interpersonally normal? Or do you have poor boundaries? Are you able to remain professional in professional settings? If you're behaving toward your adviser as you do with your friend when you are tipsy at the bar, then no clinical experience can compensate for this sort of interpersonal weirdness.

Edited February 12, 2015 by yellowmint

[brokepocket27]

Thanks guys! I very much appreciate your views on this. Shadowing a clinician could be, I reckon, a little hard given my current background and location. I thought of volunteering in a counselling centre or something along these lines...

[juilletmercredi]

Shadowing clinicians is actually quite common for clinical psychology applicants, and I would recommend this as well.  Collecting data from clinical populations is research experience, not clinical experience.  A lot of people volunteer at hospitals and psychiatric clinics and inpatient drug treatment centers for this.  It's quite easy to do without personal connections; I did this in college and I wasn't even interested in clinical psychology.  Many hospitals have formal volunteering programs.

 

I'm going to buck the trend a little, too, and suggest that you take some foundational coursework in psychology.  I'm not in clinical psychology, but in my program we did have a few people who didn't major in psychology in undergrad (a couple math majors and one philosophy major, maybe some others).  The thing that differentiated them is that they took some foundational psychology coursework - at least 5-7 classes in the field.  I doubt my program would've admitted anyone who had no psychological coursework, and we actually had a pretty decent behavioral economics contingent.  Graduate coursework assumes you have some undergraduate foundation in the field.

[Fishbucket]

I did it! With an even more unrelated background than you, I got into a PhD program in psychology this year (I had a BA in English and an MA in Spanish Lit). It took me a year and a half to prepare, I took the Psych GRE and 5 psych classes at a cheap local school, and I worked in 2 research groups as a volunteer (though one eventually started paying me).

You already have some research experience, which is great. The quantitative skills will also be a huge selling point for your application, because many applicants don't understand stats very well and it's integral to psych research. You should probably keep doing the research for as long as possible before applying. I think you honestly have a good chance at getting in.

ETA: I prepared for the Psych GRE by ordering 3 test prep books on Amazon and going through every single practice test. Quizlet is also great for flashcards organized by topic (social psych, neuro, history of psych). I also read a pop history of psychology to help root everything in my mind. I ended up getting a 770 (95th percentile) and had many of my interviewers commenting on my score, so it worked!

Also I should specify that I applied to clinical and counseling programs.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Fishbucket

[brokepocket27]

I did it! With an even more unrelated background than you, I got into a PhD program in psychology this year (I had a BA in English and an MA in Spanish Lit). It took me a year and a half to prepare, I took the Psych GRE and 5 psych classes at a cheap local school, and I worked in 2 research groups as a volunteer (though one eventually started paying me).

You already have some research experience, which is great. The quantitative skills will also be a huge selling point for your application, because many applicants don't understand stats very well and it's integral to psych research. You should probably keep doing the research for as long as possible before applying. I think you honestly have a good chance at getting in.

ETA: I prepared for the Psych GRE by ordering 3 test prep books on Amazon and going through every single practice test. Quizlet is also great for flashcards organized by topic (social psych, neuro, history of psych). I also read a pop history of psychology to help root everything in my mind. I ended up getting a 770 (95th percentile) and had many of my interviewers commenting on my score, so it worked!

Also I should specify that I applied to clinical and counseling programs.

Sounds amazing! I admire your perseverance especially given your background. It must have been a pretty rough sailing