Decisions

[mikers86]

I had questions about funding with UCLA too so I directed my questions to both Helen Deutsch and Mike Lambert. They were both really open to answering what I had to say. I then asked my POI some things like, "Do students seem to struggle financially" and so forth to get an advisers perspective. Everything they told me, from additional funding available through application and how other students get additional fellowship years was very helpful and comforting.

 

-Ask current graduate students. They'll be able to tell you with much more certainty if they struggle financially! I find POI/faculty in general have little sense of how their graduate students live.

-As for placement rates, hit up the DGS or have them ask their assistant to pull that information - through this past year if possible. Preferably in spreadsheet format. If they aren't willing to be transparent with you about this information, there's probably a reason.

 

-Feel free to ask about attrition rates as well. They may not know the exact numbers, but they should be able to find that out for you.

 

-Also consider asking how many of their students in the last few cohorts have decided to pursue Alt-Ac jobs. It's 2015. If they aren't keeping track of this information, they need to start.

[ktm9bar]

Interested in some advice from you all. Long time reader, first time poster. I applied to seven schools, all top 30 (if those rankings mean anything). Still one more to hear back from but I've been rejected from all but one, which was ironically my top choice and by far the best fit for my research interests. Although I'm pleased with the acceptance and the package is fantastic, should I take the five (probably soon to be six) rejections as a sign that I'm not at the level that I need to be at? I've heard a lot of talk about it being a "crapshoot" but I feel like most of the folks on this board have either received multiple acceptances or all rejections, making their standing fairly clear. Anybody in a similar situation or have any advice? I am well too aware of the state of the profession and don't want to set myself up for failure solely on a mistakenly perceived sense of validation.

[CarolineNC]

Interested in some advice from you all. Long time reader, first time poster. I applied to seven schools, all top 30 (if those rankings mean anything). Still one more to hear back from but I've been rejected from all but one, which was ironically my top choice and by far the best fit for my research interests. Although I'm pleased with the acceptance and the package is fantastic, should I take the five (probably soon to be six) rejections as a sign that I'm not at the level that I need to be at? I've heard a lot of talk about it being a "crapshoot" but I feel like most of the folks on this board have either received multiple acceptances or all rejections, making their standing fairly clear. Anybody in a similar situation or have any advice? I am well too aware of the state of the profession and don't want to set myself up for failure solely on a mistakenly perceived sense of validation.

 

My first reaction was "hell no!" and after thinking about it, I still think no. You could have been rejected because of fit or lack of funding from other schools. And if you got into your top choice, take it, assume you're awesome, drink a beer and pat yourself on the back. 

[allplaideverything]

This is also a good thing to ask current grad students, as well--the ones I've contacted at the schools I've been admitted to have been very upfront about cost of living and what it's like to live on a given package in a given city.

 

 

-Ask current graduate students. They'll be able to tell you with much more certainty if they struggle financially! I find POI/faculty in general have little sense of how their graduate students live.

-As for placement rates, hit up the DGS or have them ask their assistant to pull that information - through this past year if possible. Preferably in spreadsheet format. If they aren't willing to be transparent with you about this information, there's probably a reason.

 

-Feel free to ask about attrition rates as well. They may not know the exact numbers, but they should be able to find that out for you.

 

-Also consider asking how many of their students in the last few cohorts have decided to pursue Alt-Ac jobs. It's 2015. If they aren't keeping track of this information, they need to start.

 

So, of course folks are right that we should ask current students about finances, and more generally about what it's like to be a student there.

 

But I also want to put a little pressure on the idea that current students' answers will be reliable. In my M.A. and M.F.A programs, there were people who struggled financially and people who were fine, people who complained constantly about the teaching load and people who were fine, people who struggled to find meaningful mentorship and people who were fine. I think whether you're able to live on a grad stipend has more to do with who you are as a person than it does with a city's cost of living or the specific amount of the fellowship (and similar with teaching load, etc.).

 

Certainly we should ask, but keep in mind that these kinds of questions are very subjective.

[Dr. Old Bill]

Interested in some advice from you all. Long time reader, first time poster. I applied to seven schools, all top 30 (if those rankings mean anything). Still one more to hear back from but I've been rejected from all but one, which was ironically my top choice and by far the best fit for my research interests. Although I'm pleased with the acceptance and the package is fantastic, should I take the five (probably soon to be six) rejections as a sign that I'm not at the level that I need to be at? I've heard a lot of talk about it being a "crapshoot" but I feel like most of the folks on this board have either received multiple acceptances or all rejections, making their standing fairly clear. Anybody in a similar situation or have any advice? I am well too aware of the state of the profession and don't want to set myself up for failure solely on a mistakenly perceived sense of validation.

 

Frankly, I would just celebrate and not give it another thought. Getting into your top choice school is fantastic! If you've been accepted, they clearly like what you have to offer, and are willing to back that up with a long-term commitment. I wouldn't worry about whether other schools have rejected you.

 

To wit: I know I'm a solid candidate (and I truly say that without a hint of arrogance). I've been mostly shut out so far, barring a lesser offer to UMD. If it happens that I get a call from Harvard, Princeton, Stanford etc. tomorrow, I would be thrilled...and while I would be "surprised" in the sense that no one can ever count on an acceptance from anywhere, I wouldn't be surprised because I feel I'm not worthy of the honor or because a slew of other schools decided not to take me on.

 

It's a business, and it's mostly impersonal. Be happy that you've been accepted to your top choice, and feel confident that it was well earned!

 

 

ETA: Cross-posted with the two fine folks above.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Wyatt's Torch

[Lycidas]

Interested in some advice from you all. Long time reader, first time poster. I applied to seven schools, all top 30 (if those rankings mean anything). Still one more to hear back from but I've been rejected from all but one, which was ironically my top choice and by far the best fit for my research interests. Although I'm pleased with the acceptance and the package is fantastic, should I take the five (probably soon to be six) rejections as a sign that I'm not at the level that I need to be at? I've heard a lot of talk about it being a "crapshoot" but I feel like most of the folks on this board have either received multiple acceptances or all rejections, making their standing fairly clear. Anybody in a similar situation or have any advice? I am well too aware of the state of the profession and don't want to set myself up for failure solely on a mistakenly perceived sense of validation.

 

To add to what others have said already, practically nobody is fully "prepared" for graduate studies, especially at the doctoral level, when they first enter. There's almost always (from what I'm told) a short period of "whoa, this is a lot of work and everyone's really smart," which can occasionally be followed by "am I right for this?" But that's natural, and it passes, and things settle down a bit. If you're capable of constructing an application that can get you accepted, you're most likely capable of doing the work once you're there. It's just a matter of making the adjustment

[kurayamino]

Interested in some advice from you all. Long time reader, first time poster. I applied to seven schools, all top 30 (if those rankings mean anything). Still one more to hear back from but I've been rejected from all but one, which was ironically my top choice and by far the best fit for my research interests. Although I'm pleased with the acceptance and the package is fantastic, should I take the five (probably soon to be six) rejections as a sign that I'm not at the level that I need to be at? I've heard a lot of talk about it being a "crapshoot" but I feel like most of the folks on this board have either received multiple acceptances or all rejections, making their standing fairly clear. Anybody in a similar situation or have any advice? I am well too aware of the state of the profession and don't want to set myself up for failure solely on a mistakenly perceived sense of validation.

 

As my adviser told me, grad school is like taking it to a higher gear, not exchanging a car for an airplane. It's more work, longer hours, etc. But it's essentially building off the skills you already have.

I wouldn't worry at all about rejections. It really IS a crapshoot. Celebrate your acceptance and good fit as a sign that the people who approved your application are interested in your work, what you have to offer the program, and their confidence in your ability.

[ktm9bar]

Thank you all. Good advice all around, and much appreciated.

[fancypants09]

I had questions about funding with UCLA too so I directed my questions to both Helen Deutsch and Mike Lambert. They were both really open to answering what I had to say. I then asked my POI some things like, "Do students seem to struggle financially" and so forth to get an advisers perspective. Everything they told me, from additional funding available through application and how other students get additional fellowship years was very helpful and comforting.

 

I'm not in the English or Comp Lit departments at UCLA, so we have different contacts, but it's good to hear that you've had good discussions with your department so far!

 

My POI there is the DGS for the department, and while I initially thought this may be a double-edged sword for asking about finances (no chance to ask for a second opinion from your POI before talking to the DGS) I think those conversations will go well as long as I can convince myself first that being direct is OK. Again, still learning how to step up here...

[NotSpyderman]

Go visit both! And then decide on Davis ;) we could be friends!

We could all be.

[Idiot]

I really appreciate people taking their time to give their good advice!

 

What do you think of placement records? The "recent placements" aren't always that recent, I've noticed. Is it a good idea to ask for hard facts? And if a couple of people got jobs in 2012, does that really improve my chances of doing the same in 2022, as long as the options are in the same "tier"?

 

The thing I've noticed about teaching is that programs that generally ( but this can be just me) seem more "prestigious" because they are statistically harder to get in to, usually require less teaching (for example comp lit programs and national lit programs at the same school). I get it that those who have experience of teaching a language will have an advantage when it comes to just getting a job, but is this still a little like those who do a joint fine art/teaching degree, i.e. not the next Jeff Koons? No snobbism intended, just trying to decipher the fine print.

[hypervodka]

It's a good idea to ask for statistics, and to ask why the stats are so high or low. What does or doesn't the program as a whole do in order to drive their current placement record? When asking for statistics, make sure to ask for specifics about your area group--across the board, placement records are different depending upon your specialty.

[thirty_birds]

Accidentally started a new thread for this, not realizing how great so much of the advice is here on this one! I wonder in particular, how much are you weighing funding vs. fit?? I only applied to places where I felt like the fit would work well, but I'm already having one hell of a time weighing a school with a ridiculously nice funding package against two places that seem to have the best faculty fit over all... I'm particularly worried as a POI at the school with the most money may be leaving this year. At the same time there are other faculty there that I could work with, though I know less about them & I feel more gravitationally pulled toward POIs at the other two places... Time to inform myself more about people's work, I suppose!

One thing that I'm starting to look at is where extra financial support (beyond the standard package you receive) might be at these schools. For ex: what kind of fellowships might be available after year 2? If I needed to extend my time to finish my dissertation, is money more or less guaranteed or would it be really hard to patch together? What are each program's policies about fellowships from outside the university, i.e., do they reduce university aid as a result, or do I get to keep the full outside funding?

Also, two other important considerations for me, that others may want to think about as well: commitment to diversity in each department/school – I don't just mean subfields; the humanities at most institutions tend to be incredibly homogenous, and I certainly want to be in a place that isn't ignoring the fact and has resources for me, as a POC in particular. Also: what are maternity leave policies at each institution? As an older graduate student, it's very possible that I may have/adopt a child while in my program, and I want to be sure I'm in a place that will be supportive of me should I make that decision.

[ProfLorax]

Also: what are maternity leave policies at each institution? As an older graduate student, it's very possible that I may have/adopt a child while in my program, and I want to be sure I'm in a place that will be supportive of me should I make that decision.

This is so important! In addition to the institution's policy on parental leave, you may also want to talk to current graduate students with kids. They can give you a better sense of the departmental culture and attitude towards work/life balance. Also, as a grad student on maternity leave, I can also tell you want to make sure your advisor will be supportive. I was fortunate enough to have my then-POI and now-advisor straight up tell me that she supports and advocates for grad students who have kids. I never had to ask. And so far, she's absolutely kept her word. 

[thepriorwalter]

Hey thirty_birds! I read your other thread too, and I feel like I'm in a really similar situation. I've been accepted to one school more highly ranked than the others (Michigan), who is offering a ridiculous funding package; one school that feels like the best faculty fit but has the lowest funding (Pitt); and one school that is good for me overall and will let me transfer a huge number of credits from my MA (Ohio State). I thought that this decision was going to feel easy, or like I would know what to do (and certainly other people in my life are acting like I should know), but I just don't.

I've heard a lot of people suggest that I follow the best stipend. Others say best fit. I am going to visit all the schools and, in the absence of feeling like Michigan is The One, if I feel the most pull toward Pitt, I'm gonna ask if they can come any closer to Michigan's offer. I am certain matching is out of the question, but I think what to do would feel more clear if the funding offers weren't quite so disparate.

So I guess my suggestion is: any chance you can negotiate the offer with either of the other two?

Edited February 21, 2015 by thepriorwalter

[obrial42]

I've heard a lot of people suggest that I follow the best stipend. Others say best fit. I am going to visit all the schools and, in the absence of feeling like Michigan is The One, if I feel the most pull toward Pitt, I'm gonna ask if they can come any closer to Michigan's offer. I am certain matching is out of the question, but I think what to do would feel more clear if the funding offers weren't quite so disparate.

 

I'm glad you mentioned visiting schools to find out which one is "the one." I'm debating between two programs, and from what I can see, they are neck-in-neck. It is going to be SO tough to decide -- but both schools are flying me down to meet people and see the campus. I HOPE that I will know which one is "the one" after my visits. Good luck on your campus visits!

[CarolineNC]

The stipend at Davis beats Austin and chapel hill's by quite a bit, but I feel like I need to go with the school that's ranked the highest. Is that dumb?

Edited February 21, 2015 by CarolineKS

[Hannalore]

I'm glad you mentioned visiting schools to find out which one is "the one." I'm debating between two programs, and from what I can see, they are neck-in-neck. It is going to be SO tough to decide -- but both schools are flying me down to meet people and see the campus. I HOPE that I will know which one is "the one" after my visits. Good luck on your campus visits!

 

Which schools will you be visiting, Obrial?

[allplaideverything]

The stipend at Davis beats Austin and chapel hill's by quite a bit, but I feel like I need to go with the school that's ranked the highest. Is that dumb?

 

Dude, that's my question, too. I was surprised you hadn't turned Davis down yet, seeing as to how prestigious UT-Austin is (but maybe my perception of that is also based on creative writing, where UT is top-tier).

 

I love Davis for a lot of reasons, but I feel like it's also my default because it's ranked significantly higher than my other schools. Would I be crazy to go to a 40-something-ranked school over a 20-something-ranked school? Or what about a 60-something ranked school?

 

(FWIW, Caroline, I think all three of your remaining potentials are very well respected, so I don't feel like you'd be way out-of-line coming to Davis.)

[allplaideverything]

I worry that I've become nearly unbearable to hang out with, as all I can think/talk about is which program I should choose.

 

And then I worry I'll become even more unbearable to hang out with when all I can think/talk about is scholar stuff.

[CarolineNC]

It's pretty prestigious for lit as far as I know. I'm just stuck on California a bit

[silenus_thescribe]

The stipend at Davis beats Austin and chapel hill's by quite a bit, but I feel like I need to go with the school that's ranked the highest. Is that dumb?

 

It's pretty prestigious for lit as far as I know. I'm just stuck on California a bit

 

I don't think worrying about the rank is dumb at all. After all, even though the application process is brutal enough, getting a job -- tenure-track or otherwise -- is brutal.

 

My inclination, however, is that the stipend, while not irrelevant, is not the ultimate make-or-break deal. (As a professor of mine puts it, "There's dozens of dollars in literature.") Unless it's a killer fellowship you landed, i.e. something that goes above and beyond the average stipend, I can't think of an English PhD stipend that lets one live in high comfort and save up of money. For the most part, PhD students have to live pretty miserly. Being attracted to higher offers is natural, but the amounts of money we're usually talking about don't amount to anything that would allow you to save up tons of money in the long term. So, say, if school X offers you 14k per year and school Y offers you 16k, the latter is technically a better offer, but after expenses and taxes it's unlikely to amount to a significant enough addition to your bank account such that Y is necessarily a better offer for the money.

 

Then again, if you have landed a cushy stipend/fellowship, then that's certainly a decisive factor. 

[thepriorwalter]

I am so grateful for a thread of people who understand the feeling of doing nothing but fretting over the decisions they're making.

I did land a cushy fellowship and it doesn't feel decisive. What if it doesn't allow for enough teaching?? What if that prevents me from getting a job?? Yes, I am playing the world's tiniest violin as I type this.

Loving everyone's perspective. Keep it coming. It's soothing and helpful. Can't wait to see where everyone ends up.

[silenus_thescribe]

I am so grateful for a thread of people who understand the feeling of doing nothing but fretting over the decisions they're making.

I did land a cushy fellowship and it doesn't feel decisive. What if it doesn't allow for enough teaching?? What if that prevents me from getting a job?? Yes, I am playing the world's tiniest violin as I type this.

Loving everyone's perspective. Keep it coming. It's soothing and helpful. Can't wait to see where everyone ends up.

While these decisions are undeniably difficult, the nice thing about the kind of people who spend lots of time and money on becoming English PhDs is that they're smart and determined people who will do the best no matter the offer they take. Sure, one could devise any number of counterfactuals about what might have gone better at a different university, but I think it's obvious that we do these things because we love it, not because we're hoping to score the big bucks one day.

[LurkerNoMore]

The stipend at Davis beats Austin and chapel hill's by quite a bit, but I feel like I need to go with the school that's ranked the highest. Is that dumb?

Hi CarolineKS! Congrats on all your acceptances. I'm fairly familiar with the UNC program for various reasons and live around the area. If you have any questions about the program, lifestyle, atmosphere, or how far the stipend goes and the availability of outside monies beyond the stipend (I have experience in that too), let me know.