Negotiating Offers

[Dr. Old Bill]

Only heard one acceptance so far, but will be chatting with DGS tomorrow. Is there any risk in saying "I'm weighing your offer with another offer. Does the department have any flexibility in funding?" Or is the ghost offer risking potentially being exposed for a fraud?!?

 

Dishonesty is distasteful to begin with, but...why in the world would you ever lie to the people who are offering to commit five years and probably 100k-plus to have you study there? I understand that negotiation is a reasonable business tactic, but doing so without a legitimate offer in hand is tantamount to embezzlement, in my opinion. Just don't do it.

[lyonessrampant]

You can also ask for things directly.  While a competing offer can give you some extra leverage, you don't have to have one to negotiate.  I would agree that there are lots of reasons to not use a ghost offer as leverage.  

[ktm9bar]

Thanks for the advice. I'm likely not going to try it, mostly because I am too much of a wimp to actually go through with it and I can totally see myself getting caught in the act.

[goldfinch1880]

If you have more than one offer, are you negotiating it? How? Looking to do less teaching, hoping for more money, asking for matching funds from another offer? Explicitly negotiating? Just mentioning other funds to the DGS?

If you've negotiated in the past (successfully or not, because sometimes it's because the department doesn't have more money to give), how did you do it and what do you recommend other hopeful negotiators know going into the process?

I'm interested in doing this but terrified (engrained, ridiculous attitudes about discussing money, engrained attitudes about gender, and general anxiety), so I'm trying to collect as much information on the process as possible before I begin.

(I know this has been discussed a few times on gradcafe (particularly in other forums), but I thought it was relevant to bring it up on the Literature board in particular, not only because I find many of the discussions on the other boards off putting, but also because lit can be its own animal in many ways and I was hoping for a recent conversation.)

 

 

on a related note....does anyone know the protocol for using an offer to help your time on the waitlist? I have an offer from a school ranked in the low 50s, and am waitlisted at a school in the mid 20s. Is it any use at all to mention the acceptance to the waitlisted school, since they asked for me to keep them posted?

[hypervodka]

I think that when they ask you to keep them posted, they are really just asking you to update them if you've decided to attend elsewhere, so they can remove you from the waitlist. I don't think this is something they want to know, unless you've decided to attend. It's not leverage that will convince them to bump you up in the waitlist or anything.

[goldfinch1880]

I think that when they ask you to keep them posted, they are really just asking you to update them if you've decided to attend elsewhere, so they can remove you from the waitlist. I don't think this is something they want to know, unless you've decided to attend. It's not leverage that will convince them to bump you up in the waitlist or anything.

 

great advice---would you say if I am accepted at a school that out-ranks them it would be worth mentioning?

[lyonessrampant]

You could, I guess, but I think that it might come across negatively.  Programs have procedures for handling their waitlists, and trying to negotiate your way around those procedures seems unfair to me.  It also seems like something that a program might dislike.  There's a difference between negotiating once you've got an offer and trying to negotiate your way into an offer.  Not sure how others feel, but I personally wouldn't.  I would certainly check in and say you're still interested and get information on their waitlist procedure, but unless you've got some sort of deadline situation, I wouldn't tell them when you get admitted other places unless those admissions would result in you wanting to remove yourself from their waitlist.

[hypervodka]

great advice---would you say if I am accepted at a school that out-ranks them it would be worth mentioning?

 

I don't think it's useful leverage in any context. I don't think you can successfully negotiate yourself into an acceptance this way, if that makes sense.

[hypervodka]

The process for deciding on the order for the waitlist involves so many different people--everyone who served on the admissions committee, which can be up to 15 people, all of whom were aggressively advocating for different applicants and then finally, possibly tersely, after a weeks-long process, decided on a final list they were happy with. It's just not something I can see you feasibly renegotiating after the fact.

[goldfinch1880]

 

You could, I guess, but I think that it might come across negatively.  Programs have procedures for handling their waitlists, and trying to negotiate your way around those procedures seems unfair to me.  It also seems like something that a program might dislike.  There's a difference between negotiating once you've got an offer and trying to negotiate your way into an offer.  Not sure how others feel, but I personally wouldn't.  I would certainly check in and say you're still interested and get information on their waitlist procedure, but unless you've got some sort of deadline situation, I wouldn't tell them when you get admitted other places unless those admissions would result in you wanting to remove yourself from their waitlist.

 

 

The process for deciding on the order for the waitlist involves so many different people--everyone who served on the admissions committee, which can be up to 15 people, all of whom were aggressively advocating for different applicants and then finally, possibly tersely, after a weeks-long process, decided on a final list they were happy with. It's just not something I can see you feasibly renegotiating after the fact.

 

that was my gut feeling too---thanks guys! I hate negotiating so I wanted to make sure my gut feeling wasn't just a reticence to negotiate.

Edited February 16, 2015 by goldfinch1880

[slightlymoreanonymous]

I think I am unclear on why the suggestion is to do this before acceptances/decisions come out. 

 

I'm not sure if this is a similar situation, but I have one funded offer with a very early deadline to reply back, and was told by a few current professors that it would be perfectly acceptable to send a brief email in a few weeks to schools I'm still waiting to hear from that I have [X offer] and have to make a decision by [certain date.] I don't think it's a matter of negotiating an acceptance as just wanting to know your options? 

[obrial42]

I think I am unclear on why the suggestion is to do this before acceptances/decisions come out. 

Totally OT, but I love your username. I wrote my Master's thesis about Angels in America. 

[InHacSpeVivo]

I'm not sure if this is a similar situation, but I have one funded offer with a very early deadline to reply back, and was told by a few current professors that it would be perfectly acceptable to send a brief email in a few weeks to schools I'm still waiting to hear from that I have [X offer] and have to make a decision by [certain date.] I don't think it's a matter of negotiating an acceptance as just wanting to know your options? 

 

It's been posted elsewhere, but is worth re-posting here, I think. Have you seen the April 15th resolution? http://www.cgsnet.org/april-15-resolutionYou may want to consider letting the school that gave you an offer letting them know you'll have an answer ASAP (which all the waitlisters would appreiate anyway ), but you're waiting to hear from other programs.

[1Q84]

A prof emailed me out of the blue and offered me more money. I suppose he was preempting my forthcoming negotiations? I haven't contacted him since before I submitted my apps so this was a happy surprise. It's really, really not much (not substantial enough to pay a month's rent, let's say) but I think I'll take it as a positive sign that they want me. 

 

Edit: I read this back and I realize it may read like I'm boasting, which I didn't intend. Was just hoping to provide an example of informal "negotiations" that occur outside of discussions with the DGS.  

Edited February 17, 2015 by 1Q84

[TakeruK]

I think I am unclear on why the suggestion is to do this before acceptances/decisions come out. 

 

Many programs make funding decisions along with admission decisions. For example, the committee may plan to admit 10 students and they might have 2 prestigious fellowships that are worth a little more which they normally use to entice their top choices to come. If the committee knows ahead of time that you already got into, say, Yale, and they want to make sure they get you instead of Yale, then they might choose to award you the fellowship in your offer. However, if they have already have their decisions, they might have already offered those two fellowships to other people, so even if they really wanted you, they might no longer have the resources available to increase your offer (at least, not unless one of the other two students decline their fellowship offer). That is, they are always more flexible prior to making decisions, so if you provide them with info on a competing offer early, they have more options should they choose to match or beat the offer.

[Ramus]

For those that have successfully negotiated offers: what's an acceptable increase to ask for? 

 

I'll give you the numbers I'm thinking with: I'm leaning towards OSU's offer, which entails a ~$16K/year stipend for four years. The thing is, though, that my MA program currently gives me an $18K/year stipend, and I really don't want to lose $2K a year AND pay higher rent in Columbus. 

 

But I'm thinking that asking for $2K more each of my four years in Columbus is stretching it a bit. Am I mistaken in thinking this? If it is indeed too much to ask for, what might be a reasonable amount to request? 

Edited February 18, 2015 by Ramus

[hypervodka]

I think that is a reasonable one. You've been "struggling to make ends meet making 16K per year" and are now "worried about making less money in a decidedly more expensive location." I think that they'd be very responsive to your situation, as long as long as you don't frame it as "I just want two grand because so want more money, to be honest."

[CarolineNC]

Is it even worth negotiating a stipend with schools like Chapel Hill and UT Austin? Do they have any more money to give? 

[plznE3]

I got into my top choice program but I have two offers from schools that indicated they would match all other offers. My favorite program ranks significantly higher than the other two, so I'm not sure how serious they would take the competition. Plus, they are already offering me slightly more than seems to be the rule so I'm not sure how far I can push it. Any thoughts?

[subjunctivity]

Is it even worth negotiating a stipend with schools like Chapel Hill and UT Austin? Do they have any more money to give? 

 

On UT Austin's end: Not on the stipend, no, I don't think so. It's a set amount across the board, I'm pretty sure. They are pushing hard to make the stipend as much as they can, though. The departments' admins really fight for their grad students.

 

That being said, you might be able to get an extra something for your first year (technically for moving costs, covering that first summer), but there's no formal procedure as far as I know. Without being too specific, I was offered a one-time scholarship for the first year to compete with other offers from different universities.

[erosanddust]

Is it possible to negotiate at all for MA programs? I suspect that if any there's any sway in funding, PhD candidates will be given preference.

[iwontbelyeveit]

I received an official officer and funding information today from a program that I love. It was kind of a buzzkill, as the funding package was not quite what I had hoped. Essentially they said that I am nominated for a sizable first-year scholarship; however, I am responsible for tuition and fees. Additionally, they are "not guaranteeing" funding for the remainder of my program (PhD), but they "will continue to pursue funding options" for me. Also—I would be an international student, so it's significantly important for me to have some security in this. As of now it's my only offer, but I'm waiting on a few more places.... but this is my favorite. 

 

I'm planning to negotiate, but I'm interested if anyone has had experience with this kind of thing, or what advice you would give me for negotiating. Is it unreasonable to ask for a tuition waiver, or a way for tuition to be part of the funding package? That would help me significantly. 

[lyonessrampant]

It is pretty common to have to pay fees, which reduce once you're ABD and have completed a certain number of credits at that level.  However, all of the offers I received from Ph.D. programs included a tuition waiver.  I'd definitely ask them about that because it seems strange to me a program would accept someone without at least a guarantee of a tuition waiver.  I know some places do that, which I think is very unethical, but I would definitely ask for some sort of a) way to cover tuition and guarantee that tuition will be covered for some amount of time (at least 4 years).  Would you be TAing or teaching in the program?  This is usually how programs cover your tuition and stipend.  

[heliogabalus]

Will the funding be enough for you to cover tuition, fees, and living costs? If not, I wouldn't take it.

[iwontbelyeveit]

It is pretty common to have to pay fees, which reduce once you're ABD and have completed a certain number of credits at that level.  However, all of the offers I received from Ph.D. programs included a tuition waiver.  I'd definitely ask them about that because it seems strange to me a program would accept someone without at least a guarantee of a tuition waiver.  I know some places do that, which I think is very unethical, but I would definitely ask for some sort of a) way to cover tuition and guarantee that tuition will be covered for some amount of time (at least 4 years).  Would you be TAing or teaching in the program?  This is usually how programs cover your tuition and stipend.  

 

Thanks, lyonessrampant! Yeah, having done my MA in English, I was a TA and got all the grad goods that way. This, however, is a comp lit department, so it's not as cut and dry for students with respect to assistantships. There are available TA and RA-ships, but it depends on what the needs are and what languages you work in. Also, it appears that they might delegate those to students after the first year?

 

And yeah, I agree that it's...not great to not provide tuition waivers for funded students... that would really make this funding package more appealing. 

 

Will the funding be enough for you to cover tuition, fees, and living costs? If not, I wouldn't take it.

 

The stipend is sizable, and perhaps they're assuming that I will use that to cover it? And being an international student, I imagine I'll be paying pricier international tuition. Regardless, I would need them to provide me with sufficient evidence that it will be fairly easy for me to find funding for the remainder of my program AND that I have the department supporting me in this. 

 

Ugh, I'm so bummed, you guys.