"a whopping 37% of all reported tenure-track hires [in 2013-14] took their PhD from one of the PGR top five programs." RIP.

[Establishment]

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2015/02/pedigree-matters-and-prospective-students-are-entitled-to-know.html

[ilovelab]

I feel as though this will depend greatly on your discipline. For example, in the life sciences it doesn't really matter where you do your PhD. It matters who you do your post-doc with. That is what greatly determines if you get a tenure track position.

[perpetuavix]

If you follow the link that he uses to cite that number, there's discussion in the comments about where that number came from. It's from the first 100 reported jobs compiled by one of the New Apps bloggers, not sure the source (ie it could be the jobs wiki or it could be the LR job thread). The update also seems to indicate that both of those percentages, 37% from top 5 and 88% from ranked programs aren't wholly accurate, since CDJ's data says 31% of TT jobs go to candidates from top-10 programs. Also, there's no claim as to whether those are people who got jobs directly from their PhD programs, or after a few years on the market. 

I'm not saying that the PGR doesn't affect placement; I'm sure it does. But I think there's more here than just the title indicates. 

[philstudent1991]

I know there is a tremendous halo effect that benefits graduates of top programs at all levels of academia, but this just can't be right. Say the PGR top 5 put 15 candidates, 3 each, on the market in a given year? is that unreasonable? Maybe add a few from past cohorts that are lateral hires...still whatever that number is it's not gonna be 37% of all reported tenure track hires, or even close to it....right? 

[Establishment]

It's certainly something to be considered when looking at one's acceptances. Whether it's 37% from top-5 programs, or 31% from top-10...

[maxhgns]

I'm currently engaged in a bit of counting that might be of interest. I'm counting up PhD locations by school, starting with the PGR's worldwide rankings and proceeding with as many other schools as I can. The hope is to eventually have a fairly comprehensive list, at least for how things stand this year, prior to new hires. I'm only counting regular (T/TT, not emeritus, visiting, adjunct, etc.) faculty, and in the few cases where there's no PhD, the program granting the person's highest degree is counted. For double-PhDs, I only count philosophy; for a PhD in two locations, I make a choice. I've probably made any number of small errors, but since this is a project for my own benefit (and to get a rough idea of what the field looks like) rather than for science, it hardly matters. I'll probably make it public when it's done.

 

So far, I've got the (reminder: international) T15, and 13 English-language Canadian departments (including all the ranked ones). Here's a quick and dirty summary of some of the results:

 

62 departments are represented in the T15

 

44.44% of the faculty in the T5 departments come from T5 departments. (Out of 171 faculty)

35.17% of the faculty in the T10 departments come from T10 departments. (Out of 290 faculty)

35.10% of the faculty in the T10 departments come from T15 departments. (Out of 416 faculty)

 

However, if you want the departments that have the most placed candidates in the (international) T15, it looks like this:

 

Princeton - 55 - 13.22% - 5 (9.09%) of these at Princeton

Oxford - 54 - 12.98% - 27 (50%) of these at Oxford

Harvard - 33 - 7.93% - 3 (9.09%) of these at Harvard

MIT - 28 - 6.73% - 2 (7.14%) of these at MIT

Berkeley - 21 - 5.05% - 3 (14.29%) of these at Berkeley

 

Together, those five departments (note: only 2 of which are T5) account for about 45.91% of all placements at T15 institutions. Just 14 departments account for about 76% of all hires at T15 departments. 17 departments gives you 82%, and after that every department accounts for less than 1% of the hires. That means that 73% of departments account for 28% of hires in T15 departments. Or, if you want a slightly scarier figure, 77% of departments account for 24% of hires.

 

 

 

In Canada, I've got 13 English-language departments so far, which means 235 faculty members coming from 80 departments.

 

The top five placers there so far are

 

Toronto - 36 - 15.32% - 7 (19.44%) at Toronto itself.

Oxford - 22 - 9.36%

Western Ontario - 12 - 5.11% - 1 (8.33%) at Western itself.

Pittsburgh - 10 -  4.26%

Princeton - 10 - 4.26%

 

 

The next-highest placing (in Canada) Canadian departments are Queen's and York with 3 each, or 1.28% (each) of faculty members (only Toronto and Western have international T15 placements, 9 and 3 respectively). Canadian departments account for 63 hires in those departments, or 27%. But Toronto and Western have 76% of the Canadian-department hires in Canada (so far), leaving 8 departments with the remaining 24% (15 faculty).

Edited February 19, 2015 by maxhgns

[Cecinestpasunphilosophe]

I'm currently engaged in a bit of counting that might be of interest. I'm counting up PhD locations by school, starting with the PGR's worldwide rankings and proceeding with as many other schools as I can. The hope is to eventually have a fairly comprehensive list, at least for how things stand this year, prior to new hires. I'm only counting regular (T/TT, not emeritus, visiting, adjunct, etc.) faculty, and in the few cases where there's no PhD, the program granting the person's highest degree is counted. For double-PhDs, I only count philosophy; for a PhD in two locations, I make a choice. I've probably made any number of small errors, but since this is a project for my own benefit (and to get a rough idea of what the field looks like) rather than for science, it hardly matters. I'll probably make it public when it's done.

 

So far, I've got the (reminder: international) T15, and 13 English-language Canadian departments (including all the ranked ones). Here's a quick and dirty summary of some of the results:

 

62 departments are represented in the T15

 

44.44% of the faculty in the T5 departments come from T5 departments. (Out of 171 faculty)

35.17% of the faculty in the T10 departments come from T10 departments. (Out of 290 faculty)

35.10% of the faculty in the T10 departments come from T15 departments. (Out of 416 faculty)

 

However, if you want the departments that have the most placed candidates in the (international) T15, it looks like this:

 

Princeton - 55 - 13.22% - 5 (9.09%) of these at Princeton

Oxford - 54 - 12.98% - 27 (50%) of these at Oxford

Harvard - 33 - 7.93% - 3 (9.09%) of these at Harvard

MIT - 28 - 6.73% - 2 (7.14%) of these at MIT

Berkeley - 21 - 5.05% - 3 (14.29%) of these at Berkeley

 

Together, those five departments (note: only 2 of which are T5) account for about 45.91% of all placements at T15 institutions. Just 14 departments account for about 76% of all hires at T15 departments. 17 departments gives you 82%, and after that every department accounts for less than 1% of the hires. That means that 73% of departments account for 28% of hires in T15 departments. Or, if you want a slightly scarier figure, 77% of departments account for 24% of hires.

 

 

 

In Canada, I've got 13 English-language departments so far, which means 235 faculty members coming from 80 departments.

 

The top five placers there so far are

 

Toronto - 36 - 15.32% - 7 (19.44%) at Toronto itself.

Oxford - 22 - 9.36%

Western Ontario - 12 - 5.11% - 1 (8.33%) at Western itself.

Pittsburgh - 10 -  4.26%

Princeton - 10 - 4.26%

 

 

The next-highest placing (in Canada) Canadian departments are Queen's and York with 3 each, or 1.28% (each) of faculty members (only Toronto and Western have international T15 placements, 9 and 3 respectively). Canadian departments account for 63 hires in those departments, or 27%. But Toronto and Western have 76% of the Canadian-department hires in Canada (so far), leaving 8 departments with the remaining 24% (15 faculty).

[Duns Eith]

I've been interested in the prior reports as well. For example, we are still waiting on Brogaard to finish up the specialty ranking by department ... I'd rather have the old data than just a "Coming soon..." page.

[perpetuavix]

Here's a PGR from 1995-1996: https://msa4.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/brianleiterphilosophicalgourmetreport1995-1996.pdf(Originally found that link here: http://upnight.com/2014/12/30/brian-leiters-continuing-influence-on-the-philosophical-gourmet-report-the-past-as-future/)

[Cecinestpasunphilosophe]

On 2/19/2015 at 6:18 PM, perpetuavix said:

Here's a PGR from 1995-1996: https://msa4.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/brianleiterphilosophicalgourmetreport1995-1996.pdf(Originally found that link here: http://upnight.com/2014/12/30/brian-leiters-continuing-influence-on-the-philosophical-gourmet-report-the-past-as-future/)

 

This is fantastic! And really cool to look at. Just some initial observations: Cornell and Bloomington have really slid. Notre Dame's been on a downward trend since 2006 or so. WUSTL has been on an upward trend; will be interesting to see if they can continue.

More importantly, this seems to emphasize some of the worries that maxhgns' research point out. For instance, Rutgers seems to have consistently been a T5 program for the last twenty-odd years, and yet still isn't in the T5 in terms of tenure-track placements... which suggests that the Leiter Reports, while useful, may not be the most important factor in determining job prospects upon graduation.

[Cecinestpasunphilosophe]

Also, what the hell happened to Johns Hopkins?

[isostheneia]

Here's a PGR from 1995-1996: https://msa4.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/brianleiterphilosophicalgourmetreport1995-1996.pdf(Originally found that link here: http://upnight.com/2014/12/30/brian-leiters-continuing-influence-on-the-philosophical-gourmet-report-the-past-as-future/)

 

This is fascinating, thanks for sharing. It's amazing to see all the professors who are now incredibly prominent who were then just going on the job market. Also interesting to see how much of Leiter's advice has stayed exactly the same, down to the wording.

 

Also, "It has been suggested by some that there will be significantly more academic job opportunities in the near future than there have been for some thirty years. Many of the faculty hired during the job boom of the 1960's will be retiring over the next fifteen years; and there will be an increase in college enrollments beginning in the mid-1990's." Hilarious. (Though to be clear, he doesn't endorse this view.)

[Establishment]

Damn, Tufts putting in that work. An MA program beating out Notre Dame, Virginia, Colorado... I was always curious how the top PGR MA programs would fare if included in the overall PhD ranking.

[maxhgns]

More importantly, this seems to emphasize some of the worries that maxhgns' research point out. For instance, Rutgers seems to have consistently been a T5 program for the last twenty-odd years, and yet still isn't in the T5 in terms of tenure-track placements... which suggests that the Leiter Reports, while useful, may not be the most important factor in determining job prospects upon graduation.

 

 

Let's not be too hasty! I've only counted placements in (not by) the top-15 departments so far (plus another 13 Canadian departments, so just 28 departments). While it looks like this pattern will probably hold steady, there's still no telling yet. There's still about 75 departments to go before I'm more or less done (done enough to satisfy my curiosity, that is).

 

 

EDIT: Incidentally, since you mention Rutgers (and I did not): they've got 13 placements in the international T15, leaving them tied for 9th with Michigan with 3.13%.

Edited February 20, 2015 by maxhgns

[Infinite Zest]

Here's a PGR from 1995-1996: https://msa4.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/brianleiterphilosophicalgourmetreport1995-1996.pdf(Originally found that link here: http://upnight.com/2014/12/30/brian-leiters-continuing-influence-on-the-philosophical-gourmet-report-the-past-as-future/)

 

Haha, "NYU is planning on reviving it's PhD program shortly."

[maxhgns]

A small update now that I've counted the international T20 and 22 Canadian programs (including the major French ones).

 

For the international T20, the % of faculty members from T5 institutions looks like this:

 

% T5 in the T5: 44.44%

% T5 in the T10: 35.17%

% T5 in the T15: 35.10%

% T5 in the T20: 32.47%

 

The top placers in the T20 are:

 

Oxford - 64 - 11.87% (27 at Oxford)

Princeton - 64 - 11.87% (5 at Princeton)

Harvard - 46 - 8.53% (3 at Harvard)

MIT - 36 - 6.68% (2 at MIT)

Pittsburgh - 26 -  4.82% (2 at Pittsburgh)

 

Yale and Berkeley are just behind with 25 and 23 T20 placements, and then it drops a bit more. That means that those 5 programs produced 44% of all T20 faculty (53% if you include Yale and Berkeley). 73 schools have placed in the T20. 31 (43%) of these have just a single such placement. A further 13 have two. 17 schools have 10 or more T20 placements, and these 17 schools account for 80% of all T20 placements.

 

 

In Canada, the five biggest placers so far are (and at this point I've got pretty much every PhD program):

 

Toronto - 51 - 13.67% (7 at Toronto)

Oxford - 26 - 6.97%

Western Ontario - 19 - 5.09% (1 at Western) (10 of these--nearly 63%--are at schools in Ontario)

Pittsburgh - 15 - 4.02%

Sorbonne - 14 - 3.75% (6, or nearly 43%, at French schools in Québec)

 

Princeton is right behind that with 13. That's nearly 33% of placements in Canada are taken by these five schools. 104 schools have placed in these 20 Canadian universities, but 47 of them--45%--have only one placement. A further 16 have two. This is awfully close to what I reported for the T20 schools above. Weird.

 

Just 6 schools have 10 or more Canadian placements, and together they account for 36% of Canadian placements. If we look at schools with 5 or more instead, then that number rises to 24 schools with 65% of Canadian placements.

 

 

 

More to come when I've progressed significantly.

Edited February 23, 2015 by maxhgns

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

I figured this may be a good place to raise my question - does anybody know the validity of the Hirsch rankings on philosophy PhD programs? There is some huge disparity between many of the schools (though not all) on the Hirsch rankings and the PGR.

[Franzkafka]

 

I figured this may be a good place to raise my question - does anybody know the validity of the Hirsch rankings on philosophy PhD programs? There is some huge disparity between many of the schools (though not all) on the Hirsch rankings and the PGR.

 

http://certaindoubts.com/complete-hirsch-number-rankings-of-us-philosophy-phd-programs/

Here is the link of Hirsch rankings.

[philstudent1991]

   

http://certaindoubts.com/complete-hirsch-number-rankings-of-us-philosophy-phd-programs/

Here is the link of Hirsch rankings.

There's nothing on there that's just outright crazy. Yale was pretty low. One thing is that the New School is not funded, yes? As far as I know they are the only schools in the top 50 on that list that isn't funded. Just me but I don't think unfunded PhDs really can be ranked, since that's such an enormous downside that any other strength would be negated by it. 

 

But also, and unfortunately, publications just aren't a direct proxy for program strength. The first person that comes to mind is Gettier, who wrote like one 3 page article but it is now taught in intro courses. 

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

I just know that there are a few schools on the Hirsch list in the top 50 that aren't on the PGR at all, and that's why I wondered if the Hirsch rankings are considered a reliable resource for PhD rankings. (U Maryland is in the top 20, Temple is in the 30's), just some interesting differences such as those.