Canada vs. US

[arsham-rezaeyeh]

Hi everyone,

I have got admission for PhD in Chemical Engineering from McGill, Pennsylvania State (PennState), and University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC).

Since I am an international student, I need to get student visa. Canada usually offers multiple entry visa for students from my country; however, the visa for United States is single entry; which means if I leave US during my education, I will not be able to return to US again (This is a usual situation for students from my country.) In the other words, I cannot see my family and parents for about 5 years.
It is a really tough choice. UIUC and Pennstate have great reputations in my field, also has McGill. Additionally, I guess a PhD degree from US can make an inevitable progress in my career, but being far from family can make the leaving situation pretty hard.

I would be glad to hear about your ideas.

[nugget]

I am not familiar with your field, but I can tell you that McGill in general is an excellent university. Either #1 or 2 in Canada. It is also well regarded and well recognized by Americans and has Ivy league status in the US, I've heard. So if you're concerned about being able to work in the US after graduation I don't think it would be an issue. Of course it is entirely up to you, but if visiting your family is important to you, McGill seems to be the obvious choice. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by jenste

[DontFly]

I second jenste. McGill is a great school and Montreal is, in my opinion, about one of the best places to live in North America.

That said, it's usually not a good idea to base your choice on geographical locations

Ultimately it depends on the trade-off. Do American schools give you enough advantage over Canadian schools to justify the loss of family time? Obviously only you can answer this question. By the way, is it possible at all for you to visit? If so then that would be ideal.

 

Another thing is: maybe you should try to contact current students or recent alumni from your country (or rough region), and ask about their experience. If no one is from your region, try to find someone not from North America, and preferably not from western Europe. Ask them whether they think it's worth it. Ask them what they think their career prospects are as a result of their education. That sort of thing. People are usually quite sympathetic and are willing to share these information.

 

Although there is a hard decision in front of you, congratulations nonetheless!

[arsham-rezaeyeh]

Thank you very much for your replies, and for your time.

It was a great help.

 

Wish the best for all of you.

[TakeruK]

Since I am an international student, I need to get student visa. Canada usually offers multiple entry visa for students from my country; however, the visa for United States is single entry; which means if I leave US during my education, I will not be able to return to US again (This is a usual situation for students from my country.) In the other words, I cannot see my family and parents for about 5 years.

 

Do you know if the US will only grant one single entry visa for you for the entire length of your degree? It won't be easy, but generally, students on single-entry visas can apply for another visa when they are outside of the US so that they can re-enter. This means that you can leave, but it might be weeks before you get the visa to return. However, many international students go away for about a month during a slow time (e.g. December or a summer month) so that they can visit home and reapply for another visa.

 

However, keep in mind that this means you cannot go on international conferences very easily because as soon as you leave the US, you will need to get another visa so that might mean you are away from your school for the time it takes to process your visa! I'm not sure if you are eligible for a third party visa (you can only apply for a visa while you're outside the US, but you don't always have to be in your home country). 

 

All of this is not to encourage you to go to the US I just wanted you to have more information in case it helps. I agree with all of the above about the wonderful things said about McGill! 

[stepbystep]

Also, do not forget that you have the chance to apply after 2 years to permanent residency in Canada. So you will not only be learning in a top school, but also having the chance of getting another passport in the future.

 

[arsham-rezaeyeh]

Thank all of you for your help.

I had doubt about my decision, but after reading your replies, I think I am going to accept McGill

 

Once again, thank you all and wish you the bests,

[victorydance]

U.S has a stronger political and econimic conditions. On the other hand, Canada doesn't have even a president because it's under the control of the Great Britain so it's not an independant country! 

 

Man, this is just so wrong I don't even know what to say. Don't offer an opinion on something you have no clue about please. 

[smpalesh]

Bernard1992 - Please tell me you are joking.  Please.  Because I don't want to believe that someone who is at a graduate level education is so COMPLETELY uneducated about Canada.

 

arsham-rezaeyeh - Please do not listen to anything this person says!  McGill is a great school and Canada is an amazing country with lots of opportunities.

[TakeruK]

I think the only points to consider seriously in Bernard1992's post is: yes, Montreal is very cold and I know a lot of students from warmer climates have a tough time adjusting and feeling happy there and yes, many big conferences are in the US and if you are outside of the US, then you will have a harder time getting visas to go to the conferences. However, if you are in the US then you will have to do this every time you leave the US for a conference. In my opinion, it is easier to get a visa to go to the US for a conference than it is for you to have to get a visa while in the conference country just to return to your home institution.

[zadigblue]

I desperately hope that Bernard1992 is a troll. Their information is so inaccurate it boggles my mind.

[spunky]

not really trolling but i can't help but always remember this scene every time i think about McGill

 

and people, Bernard1992 is a troll. remember, DON'T FING. FEED. TROLLS

 

 

[victorydance]

There is nothing wrong with saying that if you are looking to go into the academic market then getting a Ph.D. from a top university in the US is a much better approach to achieving that. However there is something wrong with stating completely wrong and ignorant things about a country.

 

I mean saying that Canada isn't an independent country because it doesn't have a president...lol...first of all it is constitutional monarchy not a republic, and secondly, it is completely independent. Also there is no evidence to suggest that the US is "stronger politically and economically." Canada and the US are both some of the more stable democracies in the world and have quite strong GDP per capita among the world. 

[arsham-rezaeyeh]

Guys.... please be friend...

[arsham-rezaeyeh]

Guys.... please be friend...

[victorydance]

We all know that many countries seem to be independent but they aren't really independent! Canada is still under the indirect control of the Queen of England.(in some cases directly) If you have doubts google it! Canada is even less independent than wales...

".....have quite strong GDP per capita among the world" because of that the UofT TAs went on strike.....ha!!!google this too........

UofT is the best university in Canada and has financial problems..........what about McGill..............

 

Once again, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The United Kingdom or its monarchy have absolutely no power over Canada, in fact, the remaining monarchy in Canada is ceremonial at best.  

Edited March 13, 2015 by victorydance

[Pedro13]

Are you out of your mind or something? You have admission from the best universities in US and you wanna accept offer of Mcgill? Do you know US is Canadian students' Utopia? I totally agree with Bernard and I think you'd better consult with non-Canadian students. 

Have a nice day.

[aberrant]

Do you know if the US will only grant one single entry visa for you for the entire length of your degree? It won't be easy, but generally, students on single-entry visas can apply for another visa when they are outside of the US so that they can re-enter. This means that you can leave, but it might be weeks before you get the visa to return. However, many international students go away for about a month during a slow time (e.g. December or a summer month) so that they can visit home and reapply for another visa.

 

However, keep in mind that this means you cannot go on international conferences very easily because as soon as you leave the US, you will need to get another visa so that might mean you are away from your school for the time it takes to process your visa! I'm not sure if you are eligible for a third party visa (you can only apply for a visa while you're outside the US, but you don't always have to be in your home country). 

 

All of this is not to encourage you to go to the US I just wanted you to have more information in case it helps. I agree with all of the above about the wonderful things said about McGill! 

 

To give an extra example on single-entry VISA: international students from mainland China have single-entry F-1 VISA. Whenever they leave the U.S., they have to reapply the F-1 VISA again. In other words, you can still visit your family every year, but it will definitely take time for you to reapply the F-1 VISA, get the approval, and stamp on your passport. My lab mate went back to China in early December 2014, and she didn't come back to work until early February due to the application process by US embassy in China. (again, single-entry).

 

Hope that helps.

[zadigblue]

Look at all these new posts from ChemEng users with only 1 or 2 posts on their profile defending Bernard1992... guys, this person is a confirmed troll, and they're just creating new accounts to jump to their own defense. Case closed. Just ignore and/or report them and move on.

[arsham-rezaeyeh]

I dont know wheather Bernard is troll or not; and I dont even care because I think it is not the point. The point is he is:

Is he right?

He made important notes. First, about the economy of Canada. It is totaly true that Canada has a powerful and great economy. But please be aware that we are comparing it with the US. Its economy vividly depends on oil and I think it is less relyable in the coparsion of the US. I found out that the point about UofT is true. They are facing lots of problems these days because of the reduction in the price of oil.

The second point is about the opportunity of finding job. The atmosphere of professional career is so competetive and I think companies and universities are reluctunt to hire someone who hase a PhD from out of US. Bernard is saying the truth: everybody knows that the US is the land of opportunities.

So do you think McGill is still a great option?!!

[ERR_Alpha]

I dont know wheather Bernard is troll or not; and I dont even care because I think it is not the point. The point is he is:

Is he right?

He made important notes. First, about the economy of Canada. It is totaly true that Canada has a powerful and great economy. But please be aware that we are comparing it with the US. Its economy vividly depends on oil and I think it is less relyable in the coparsion of the US. I found out that the point about UofT is true. They are facing lots of problems these days because of the reduction in the price of oil.

The second point is about the opportunity of finding job. The atmosphere of professional career is so competetive and I think companies and universities are reluctunt to hire someone who hase a PhD from out of US. Bernard is saying the truth: everybody knows that the US is the land of opportunities.

So do you think McGill is still a great option?!!

Don't listen to this guy. McGill has a fantastic reputation in the US. If you're concerned about economy, then look at funding. If McGill guarantees your funding, why does the economy even matter? McGill also works closely with many US based schools, which will also you networking options. And about his "cold" complaint- I went to undergrad 1 hour south of McGill and now I'm at Penn State. Winter is winter everywhere, you honestly won't notice the difference between PA and Montreal.

Also look at your POIs- where have their students gone on to get jobs? If most of McGills students wind up working in Canada, think about if you'd be happy settling there. Personally, I would choose the school that let me see my family. Five years of graduate school is tough. Having a support system is crucial.

Honestly, it's the phrasing of Bernard1992's posts that alarm me. They aren't constructive or helpful, and obviously he's just trying to troll you. Try to ignore it as best you can. There will be people who think a US school would be better, but you have to make the decision that is best for you.

[ERR_Alpha]

4. Although Penn state and UIUC are located in small cities(or mabe villages!), they are near big cities. Urbana is about 2 hours bus driving to Chicago. Go there at weekends and have fun! You cannot go on a trip during the week, because you have lots of task to do whether you are in McGill or Penn/UIUC.

!

Also this is wrong. Penn State is 3 hours roughly to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and it is not easy to get there without a car. Also lol, a village. If you want to know about State College, feel free to ask- but I'm convinced he has no idea what he's talking about.

[TakeruK]

Users that personally attack others (mocking usernames etc.) are issued warnings and monitored.

 

Everyone is free to state your opinions on the quality of Canada and Canadian schools, but do it in a way that respect other users. Respectful opinions lead to useful discussion and I think it is a good thing that these thoughts are being discussed and uninformed opinions are corrected.

 

To respond to the latest question:

 

I dont know wheather Bernard is troll or not; and I dont even care because I think it is not the point. The point is he is:
Is he right?
He made important notes. First, about the economy of Canada. It is totaly true that Canada has a powerful and great economy. But please be aware that we are comparing it with the US. Its economy vividly depends on oil and I think it is less relyable in the coparsion of the US. I found out that the point about UofT is true. They are facing lots of problems these days because of the reduction in the price of oil.
The second point is about the opportunity of finding job. The atmosphere of professional career is so competetive and I think companies and universities are reluctunt to hire someone who hase a PhD from out of US. Bernard is saying the truth: everybody knows that the US is the land of opportunities.

So do you think McGill is still a great option?!!

 

No, Bernard is not right. During the recession in 2009, the Canadian banks and real estate markets stayed stable while US housing and banks needed to be bailed out. I would say that the Canadian economy is indeed reliant on the US economy because the US and China are our biggest trading partners. The US economy is obviously bigger than Canada -- the US population is 10 times the size of Canada. However, both economies are healthy and strong and at the level you'd care about for graduate school, both economies will serve you fine.

 

The UofT strike has nothing to do with the Canadian economy. I'm a little surprised (but happy) that there is so much worldwide coverage on this actually. Employees (including graduate students) at Universities are unionized in Canada (many more unions in Canada than the US). Usually, the process works well and there is a little tension when negotiations happen but things will work out. Going to an actual strike is less common but it happens at a school in Canada every few years (sometimes it's the students, sometimes it's the professors, sometimes it's the maintenance staff etc.) I would say this is all part of the normal labour bargaining process, not a sign that the economy is failing. 

 

Some might say that strikes are a sign of the system failing and while it is true that a strike (or lockout) is a failure to bargain fairly, I would rather have strikes than the inability to bargain and being forced to accept poor working conditions.

 

As for job opportunities, it depends on what your field is and what your goals are. If your goal is a job in the US then yes, going to a US school will definitely help you because you can make more US connections (staying in country = no visa issues). But if you are just trying to find work anywhere, a McGill PhD will serve you just as well as similar ranked schools in the US (ranked 20-30). For what it's worth, at my top US program, we regularly accept Canadian students and postdocs and they tend to all come from the big 3 Canadian schools (McGill, Toronto, UBC). McGill is one of the big names in the US -- when I tell people I'm Canadian, they try to guess which school I'm from and their first guess is usually McGill.

[Buffalofan4255]

Personally only applied to UK and Canadian schools, I'm an American coming from an American undergrad. I'll be attending the U of T, and also got accepted to University College London.

I had the option to apply and likely get accepted to similar programs at Yale, Michigan, Duke, and Columbia. I didn't even apply cuz the Canadian and UK programs were frankly better, and the prestige was high.

U of T and McGill are the Harvard/Yale or Oxford/Cambridge of Canada. Both are excellent and have awesome reputations. Whenever I wear my U of T sweatshirt in my undergrad facilities, I always get comments from faculty and students like "whoa did you go there??" it's a very cool experience.

Good luck at McGill!

Edited March 15, 2015 by Buffalofan4255

[smpalesh]

I wanted to add that McGill is competitively ranked in world university rankings with the other schools you mentioned.  University of Illinois is ranked 29th in the world, McGill is ranked 39th, and Penn State is ranked 58th.  So as you can see it is not much lower than University of Illinois and is quite a bit higher than Penn State.

 

Also, for the person who is trying to claim Canadian universities can't compete with US universities - not only is McGill ranked 39th in the world, ranking higher than MANY US universities, University of Toronto is ranked 20th and University of British Columbia is ranked 32nd .  To put that into perspective - University of Toronto is ranked higher than Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon, NYU and other schools that are typically seen as very good US schools.