Much ado about a PhD

[aimasiko]

I met with a PhD program director who went on and on about how difficult the program is. He told me to prepare myself for the next six years, and that the courses were intense and hard, he also mentioned that there were two comps...people failed out. He went on and on...and in retrospect, I do not think he said one single positive thing. In fact he said something along the lines of "Don't get this PhD just because you want a job."

 

I definitely understand that a PhD is hard and I appreciate his attempt to lay all the cards squarely, but I got this vibe he was outrightly discouraging me. I left his office feeling a bit down. Okay, we sure should be passionate about getting a PhD and not get it just for the sake of getting it, but what on earth does he mean by I shouldn't get a PhD cos I want a job? Of course I will eventually get a job with the PhD or does he expect me to stare at my diploma after working so hard to get it? Goodness, he was so discouraging, he even mentioned that the only 10 of 220 applicants were picked etc. I get that it is competitive, what I don't get is the attitude and vibe around the man himself.

 

"What advice do you have for me on how to improve my application and stand out?" I asked him

 

"Make sure you apply to other programs." He responded.

 

Woah.

 

A PhD is definitely tedious, but it isn't life and death, is it?

 

Despite all his pessimism, I still want the PhD.

 

In other news, Empire's season finale was all that and MORE!

[Kleio_77]

Not sure if this helps, but...

 

My undergrad mentor wrote an amazing letter of recommendation for me... and he let me review it. Of course I did not say anything about what he wrote, as he listed all of my strengths and none of my weaknesses. He wrote an amazing letter that I reread quite often, and I feel quite positive about myself after reading what he had to say about me. However, in my letter he stated that he does not encourage me to pursue a PhD. I am Canadian so we usually have to do an M.A. and then a PhD. I was very upset about this. One of my other recommendation writers has encouraged me to pursue a PhD. 

 

I am worried about the job opportunities available to me if I were to pursue a PhD, and I understand my mentor's advice. He did both his masters and doctorate at the London School of Economics and had part-time positions until he was offered a full-time teaching position at a school in Canada. He has a jaded outlook on the job market, and I don't blame him. I just want to emphasize that every person has a different experience with finding work and using their education to their advantage. My mentor even told me that he sucked at putting together a resume, and he had to have a peer help him out before he was even considered for part-time teaching positions. 

 

Also, it would help if you stated what your area of study was. 

[juiceboxrampage]

One of my most helpful and wonderful advisors hates his job, wishes he never got a PhD, and actively advised me not to get a PhD for any reason. I think it's helpful to be realistic about how crappy the whole process can be. You're going to work your ass off for not a lot of reward. Yes, there are benefits, which is why we're all doing this anyway, but I'm sure he knows what he's talking about when he talks about the drawbacks of the program.

[Crucial BBQ]

 In fact he said something along the lines of "Don't get this PhD just because you want a job."

 

The general rule of thumb is that going for a Ph.D. for the sake of increasing job prospects or other financial reasons are vary bad reasons for pursuing a Ph.D., and that, you are supposed to only pursue a Ph.D. for the love of research and pursuit of scholarship.  Since the economic downturn of ~2009 grad programs have seen an increase in applications.  I read an article back in 2010 or so that claimed the upswing in grad applications were purely financial in reasoning.

 

Not everyone believes in this line of thinking, though, it is more common than not. 

[Eigen]

On the other hand, I've heard very good advice that is "Don't get a PhD unless it's required for the job you want". IE, you can view the PhD as a purely personal endeavor, or you can view it as a necessary credential for a job. 

 

But you shouldn't view it as a general "I'll get some job after a PhD" prospect, as that's not hugely likely. 

[TakeruK]

Sometimes directors feel the need to say things like that. Hopefully it's for good reasons though. My current program director told us on our first day that people here work hard and you should expect to be working 7 days a week, long hours every day. That has been mostly untrue--other than a few crunch times, it's mostly been 9-5 ish for most people here. While it's true that at almost any given time on any given day, you can walk into work and expect to see at least one other person working, it's not really true that there are people that regularly work 10 hour days, 7 days a week! However, the spirit of the program director's message was on point -- expectations are indeed higher here and if I have to come in for a few hours one evening or weekend, I can expect to see others there (compared to previous programs I've been to where it's rare to see others beyond standard working hours).

 

This might be similar to the discussion you had. They are definitely right that grad school will be hard and that not everyone who starts will graduate (I see national rates at around 50%, depending on field). They are also right that it's not a good idea to get a PhD just because you think you'll somehow end up with a good job because you have a PhD. Even if you just start a lowly entry position job right now, in 5-7 years, you'll be at a much better position in your career than if you have a PhD. 

 

So, I fully agree with Eigen that you should not get a PhD unless it's required for the job you want! Don't go to a PhD program because you don't know what to do next. Have specific career goals and make sure you pick a PhD program that will let you get there. 

 

On the other hand, I don't agree with the idea that one should only** pursue a PhD for the love of research and scholarship. You definitely need these reasons to pursue a PhD but it's not wrong nor bad to have other financial reasons along with these scholarship reasons. Personally, I view the PhD as a vocational program, not much different than going to school to become a mechanic or a plumber. Find the program that trains you for the career path you want, determine what you need to do to reach these goals, and then get out/move on.

 

I don't agree with the "only do a PhD for research/scholarship and nothing else" because I feel that it's completely appropriate for a graduate student to ask themselves "Will this help me get to where I want to be?" when determining priorities like "how much effort should I spend on this class" or "should I go to this conference" or "should I volunteer to lead this seminar series" etc. If a graduate student followed the "love of research/scholarship" as their main priority in grad school, there is a larger chance that they will not end up with the set of skills/expertise to reach the goal they wanted post-PhD!

 

(**Note: Perhaps it's my lack of grammatical ability, but sentences like this really confuse me. I'm interpreting the sentence that CrucialBBQ wrote as "the only reason you are supposed to pursue a PhD is for love of research/pursuit of scholarship" but it's possible that you meant the advice was "you should do a PhD only if one of the reasons is love of research/pursuit of scholarship." If the advice was the latter then I definitely agree!)

[Cheshire_Cat]

Depends on your area, job prospects may be good or bad with a Ph.D.  I think obtaining a better job can be *a* reason for going for your Ph.D, but it can't be *the* reason.  You have to have more than that to drive you to succeed when you are down and all you want to do is quit.

[Stephαnie]

Honestly I think it's just that a lot of people going in for a PhD are thinking too narrowly in terms of their job prospects. Not everyone who gets a PhD will end up tenure-track at a research university. Statistically it's just not possible. It used to be that the supervisor-student relationship was like an apprenticeship, preparing the student for exactly the kind of job the supervisor has. But now the job market is changing (and not necessarily for the worse), so the way you think about the PhD needs to change too.

 

Academia can partner up with the corporate world, government, non-profit, publishing, teaching etc. in all sorts of interesting and dynamic ways. Employers appreciate people who can work independently, who are motivated and smart and bring great ideas to the table. It's reassuring for an employer to look at someone's resume and see that they stayed in one place and worked on a project from start to finish. It shows that the person has a solid work ethic and can be counted upon.

 

At my university there's a recently-launched PhD co-op program that I definitely intend to apply for. In the meantime I also intend to enjoy life as fully as I can, to learn as much as I can while I am young.

 

I know exactly what you mean about all the doom-and-gloom talk. Well guess what, we don't have to become tenure-track academics. It's just one of many, many options out there.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Stephαnie

[aimasiko]

Ah, thank you all for your advice. I definitely appreciate the frankness (I did appreciate the director's as well). His just sort off came off as downright discouraging, but like you all said some of them regret getting a PhD. I was recently talking to my Dad, and I told him that if there was a list of the things I wanted to do eventually, being a professor doesn't top the list. So as a matter of fact, that people with PhDs saturate the academia job market doesn't really scare me.  I don't think it should scare even those who want it very much. Yes, count your costs and weigh your options wisely, but in the end go for something if you really want it.