just killed my chances

[cheesethunder]

i am soooooooo sad. i just took that awful gre and scored the complete opposite of my practice, and worse actually 440 verbal, 580 math, what garbage is that! in my practice ones i wasn't scoring that well 590 verbal, 540 math.....but really. ughhh. I'm not from the States so standardized tests are very strange to me. I have been in contact with a prof at an ivey league school, our research interests overlap quite abit (i'd be applying for psychology). we are supposed to meet in person soon....but now i feel like a complete disappointment.

I have been a research assistant at a two hospitals this past year and will continue to do research with one until I graduate and I've volunteered at a lab at my school. I went from a B- in first year when I was in another program to a mid A- overall GPA with my psyc gpa at a high A i mean 11.9/12 being an a+, finishing with 99 in a class last term and 97 in 3rd year stats. any advice? i really don't know if taking this test again will sky rocket my score, because i really thought the math section was going to be a bigger problem, i am so sad! ahhh i don't know what to do, it seems like every school needs them and i feel like i've killed my chances working with this prof whose work I really love, gre, what garbage!

[modernity]

I wouldn't worry just yet. A few things - if you're in touch with this professor, ask them how seriously they take the GRE, and given your other stats should you retake it? If you need to retake it then do so. It is possible to change your score. Did you study before you took the first one with princeton review, or a similar book? The GRE is a somewhat unique test as compared to other standardized ones, and there are some tips and tricks you can use to help improve your score. Those books tend to have "hit lists" of words that are frequently used in the GRE that can also help you out. I think these items are far more helpful than the practice tests... I did exceedingly well on the practice tests that ETS offered, and bombed the real thing when I took it. I know some people get the same scores regardless..but I've also heard a number of people that practice scores are quite a ways off from the real thing.

You're being too hard on yourself. Get some more information, perhaps try again, etc. You still have options!

[cheesethunder]

thank you for replying!

the gre has been the most stressful experience of my life! i never thought a test would have such an impact. i did take a Kaplan course, which did improve my mark, i got an 890 the 1st test i took. but honestly i've been studying since April and the verbal especially just seems like chance to me. I will contact that prof, i feel that the rest ofmy application is very strong and that really iduno how studying for the gre will make me a better graduate student. How badly did you score? did you retake it? are you applying for MA or phd programs?

[LTee]

I know how your feel. I scored worse than you did. Its very disheartening to think that that could be the deciding factor in your app. I actually took it twice and got virtually the same score. I really struggle with tests like that, and Im not really sure what to do, other than to address it in my app and emphasize that it doesn't show my true ability.

[cheesethunder]

i don't think im going to address it in my SOP just highlight why id be really great to do research

im going to pretend my gre doesn't exist because to me it is really a stupid indicator for graduate school like honestly answering opposites and highschool math in 1 min proves nothing in psyc

[JerryLandis]

I did alright on the GRE, but lower than what my desired universities seem to want. I have to say that it's horribly unfair for people who do not live in the United States. For example, in order to take the test I had to pay the equivalent of hundreds of dollars just to travel to the test center (a 7 hour train ride) and pay for accommodation. My test also cost $30 more than it would in the US. Staying in a hostel room with 11 other people is not a great way to get a good night's sleep before an exam! As a result the idea of improving my skills and retaking the test is absolutely out of the question. I am not going to address my score in my statement of purpose, because I don't want to waste valuable words on something like that. I can say, though, that if you want to try improving your score the books are very helpful. I memorized all of the words in the Princeton Review's "Hit Parade," and quite a few of them showed up on the test. However, I think it would probably take hours upon hours of long term intensive preparation to bring your score up by a significant amount.

What I'm telling myself is that I don't really want to be part of an institution that would disregard my hard earned academic qualifications and decide not to admit me because of one lousy score on a test that is completely unrelated to my topic of study. That was a long sentence! Anyways, I'm sure that once the rejection letters start flowing in I will wish I hadn't said that, but still, one must remain positive!

[Ziz]

I did alright on the GRE, but lower than what my desired universities seem to want. I have to say that it's horribly unfair for people who do not live in the United States. For example, in order to take the test I had to pay the equivalent of hundreds of dollars just to travel to the test center (a 7 hour train ride) and pay for accommodation. My test also cost $30 more than it would in the US. Staying in a hostel room with 11 other people is not a great way to get a good night's sleep before an exam! As a result the idea of improving my skills and retaking the test is absolutely out of the question. I am not going to address my score in my statement of purpose, because I don't want to waste valuable words on something like that. I can say, though, that if you want to try improving your score the books are very helpful. I memorized all of the words in the Princeton Review's "Hit Parade," and quite a few of them showed up on the test. However, I think it would probably take hours upon hours of long term intensive preparation to bring your score up by a significant amount.

What I'm telling myself is that I don't really want to be part of an institution that would disregard my hard earned academic qualifications and decide not to admit me because of one lousy score on a test that is completely unrelated to my topic of study. That was a long sentence! Anyways, I'm sure that once the rejection letters start flowing in I will wish I hadn't said that, but still, one must remain positive!

I know what you mean. I bought the Princeton Review book and was doing the practice computer tests beforehand, doing really really well (like 790 in both sections). I`m normally a very good test taker but something about the computer and the room and the headsets just made me panic and I wasted the first few minutes on one random math question that`s supposed to be easy! I was also recovering from a concussion and tried to reschedule but they told me it would cost $100 to reschedule, plus the accommodation and travel fees I`d already booked so I just did it injured. But in my opinion no test should cost that much money to change when you`re ill.

[newage2012]

I know what you mean. I bought the Princeton Review book and was doing the practice computer tests beforehand, doing really really well (like 790 in both sections). I`m normally a very good test taker but something about the computer and the room and the headsets just made me panic and I wasted the first few minutes on one random math question that`s supposed to be easy! I was also recovering from a concussion and tried to reschedule but they told me it would cost $100 to reschedule, plus the accommodation and travel fees I`d already booked so I just did it injured. But in my opinion no test should cost that much money to change when you`re ill.

Because there is virtually no competition in the standardized test industry. ETS is monopoly.

[cheesethunder]

i hate ets

whose genius idea was it to put standardized tests in grad school

really.

[JerryLandis]

My friends I went with to take the test had swine flu, but took it anyway because they couldn't reschedule. It really is annoying when university departments require applicants to take the GRE, but then say on their websites that they consider it the least important part of the application. If it's so unimportant, why waste our time and money requiring us to take it? The final year of university is a stressful enough time without the GRE! Just about as worthless and annoying as the SAT - considering all the pricey products/courses out there that are "guaranteed" to raise a person's score, I have a hard time believing that these tests are really a fair way of measuring general intelligence.

[jlee306]

i hate ets

whose genius idea was it to put standardized tests in grad school

really.

AMEN CHEESETHUNDER!!! You would think that by making it through undergraduate school would be proof enough that we can handle graduate school, considering our GPA. The GRE is just a big scam to steal our money, stress us out, and give us low self-esteem! That's right, I said it!!!

[hamster09]

cheesethunder don't despair. i also scored lower on the test because of the time constraints. and because of that i felt rather stupid. but the GRE is not measure of success in my opinion. if the rest of your application looks good especially letters from your recommenders then it should off set the GRE. assuming that that is the only low point of the application.

yes i agree with all of you that the GRE is really a waste of money.

[cheesethunder]

cheesethunder don't despair. i also scored lower on the test because of the time constraints. and because of that i felt rather stupid. but the GRE is not measure of success in my opinion. if the rest of your application looks good especially letters from your recommenders then it should off set the GRE. assuming that that is the only low point of the application.

yes i agree with all of you that the GRE is really a waste of money.

ahh = )

my poor self esteem is slowly recovering yea ive never felt so dumb! im like wow, simple math. anaglogies the most trivial test ever, i felt pathetic! yea im just really passionate about writing my SOPs write now and if i dont get in anywhere

it will be nice to just have a job as a research assistant for a break from all this stress!

[LateAntique]

Though there have been numerous studies that show that the GRE is a poor indicator of how one does in graduate school, it's a necessary evil. I hate it, don't get me wrong, but it serves a purpose. How does a program decide between two applicants who have identical GPA's, glowing recs, etc? The GRE, of course.

I've been told by numerous program to which I'm applying that they see the GRE as entirely trivial and that the only reason they require it is to get fellowships from the grad school itself. That almost makes it more stressful to me. I know that it's arbitrary in one sense and yet extremely important in another. Very silly.

[liszt85]

Though there have been numerous studies that show that the GRE is a poor indicator of how one does in graduate school, it's a necessary evil. I hate it, don't get me wrong, but it serves a purpose. How does a program decide between two applicants who have identical GPA's, glowing recs, etc? The GRE, of course.

I've been told by numerous program to which I'm applying that they see the GRE as entirely trivial and that the only reason they require it is to get fellowships from the grad school itself. That almost makes it more stressful to me. I know that it's arbitrary in one sense and yet extremely important in another. Very silly.

Just like there is no perfect synonymy in language, I don't believe that two applicants can be EXACTLY the same in all respects (GPA, research fit, relevant research experience, relevant research skills, etc). So the argument for the GRE being the ONLY one that remains to make a decision on is not all so appealing to me. Why graduate schools use the GRE score to decide fellowships might have some logic behind it though. You have people coming in from various different backgrounds, various kinds of programs and various kinds of undergraduate universities. To make a fair comparison of GPA's, etc isn't an easy job, might be virtually impossible. So something like the GRE might be a necessary evil but I don't quite like the format of the GRE, esp the verbal section. It serves no purpose.

[a fragrant plant]

Just like there is no perfect synonymy in language, I don't believe that two applicants can be EXACTLY the same in all respects (GPA, research fit, relevant research experience, relevant research skills, etc). So the argument for the GRE being the ONLY one that remains to make a decision on is not all so appealing to me. Why graduate schools use the GRE score to decide fellowships might have some logic behind it though. You have people coming in from various different backgrounds, various kinds of programs and various kinds of undergraduate universities. To make a fair comparison of GPA's, etc isn't an easy job, might be virtually impossible. So something like the GRE might be a necessary evil but I don't quite like the format of the GRE, esp the verbal section. It serves no purpose.

I totally agree with this comment. Don't forget about the other two very important factors in graduate admission: 1) your writing sample 2) how well you fit into their department.

[swisnieski]

Though there have been numerous studies that show that the GRE is a poor indicator of how one does in graduate school, it's a necessary evil. I hate it, don't get me wrong, but it serves a purpose.

Well, it is a poor indicator BY ITSELF. And when paired with other indicators like GPA, research experience, publications, and letters of recommendation, it accounts for a relatively small portion of the variance. But it is still accounting for that portion of the variance, and eliminating it from consideration will weaken, not improve, graduate admissions decisions. (GPA by itself is also a poor indicator, by the way; does anyone think we should ignore GPA?) Grad school admissions is a probabilistic process -- they are trying to decide the people who they think will have the highest probability of success. They need as much information as possible to make that happen.

FYI, if nothing else, the GREs measure your ability to take tests well. If you're the kind of person who panics when taking important tests and winds up flubbing horribly, isn't that something the graduate admissions people have a right to know?

All that said, of course, GREs really ARE only one part of your application. They can hurt your chances but cannot negate them entirely. If you have a solid GPA, good letters of recommendation, an outstanding SOP, and plenty of useful experience in your field (research, internships, etc.), I doubt you will be kept out solely on the basis of poor GRE scores.

Edited October 21, 2009 by evecon12

[coyabean]

Well, it is a poor indicator BY ITSELF. And when paired with other indicators like GPA, research experience, publications, and letters of recommendation, it accounts for a relatively small portion of the variance. But it is still accounting for that portion of the variance, and eliminating it from consideration will weaken, not improve, graduate admissions decisions. (GPA by itself is also a poor indicator, by the way; does anyone think we should ignore GPA?) Grad school admissions is a probabilistic process -- they are trying to decide the people who they think will have the highest probability of success. They need as much information as possible to make that happen.

FYI, if nothing else, the GREs measure your ability to take tests well. If you're the kind of person who panics when taking important tests and winds up flubbing horribly, isn't that something the graduate admissions people have a right to know?

All that said, of course, GREs really ARE only one part of your application. They can hurt your chances but cannot negate them entirely. If you have a solid GPA, good letters of recommendation, an outstanding SOP, and plenty of useful experience in your field (research, internships, etc.), I doubt you will be kept out solely on the basis of poor GRE scores.

A well-reasoned response. I also feel the need to add that some of us need that GRE score! It's one of my positives! I feel badly about it but I test relatively well while my UG GPA has some spottiness. And while everyone else seems to hate verbal I serve at its altar. Without it I'd be a slave to geometry. So, I think this multi-faceted approach is about as good as it gets. Fortunately it's about a composite picture of who we are...or so I've been promised. :/

[JerryLandis]

I fail to see how GPA is a poor indicator of someone's abilities. It's not an arbitrary number and, while it may differ a bit from university to university, generally speaking you can tell from looking at someone's GPA how hard they worked at university and how strong of a student they are. Doesn't really apply so much to the GRE, which is taken in one sitting and only really reflects a student's performance in one very specific incident.

[cheesethunder]

I fail to see how GPA is a poor indicator of someone's abilities. It's not an arbitrary number and, while it may differ a bit from university to university, generally speaking you can tell from looking at someone's GPA how hard they worked at university and how strong of a student they are. Doesn't really apply so much to the GRE, which is taken in one sitting and only really reflects a student's performance in one very specific incident.

i agree! one of my profs told me that my gpa means nothing and that the gre is the only measure of intelligence, i was so horrified

but really, it has to indicate something, like 20 courses over a span of 4 years, having to take classes that aren't in you rmajor etc, if you can consistently do well then.....it means your doing something right.

[KieBelle]

i agree! one of my profs told me that my gpa means nothing and that the gre is the only measure of intelligence, i was so horrified

but really, it has to indicate something, like 20 courses over a span of 4 years, having to take classes that aren't in you rmajor etc, if you can consistently do well then.....it means your doing something right.

I am so relieved to see that I'm the the only one who thinks this! I was starting to feel very lonely. Frankly, I think the argument that GPA is unimportant is total rubbish- it simply doesn't make sense.

Edited October 23, 2009 by KieBelle

[swisnieski]

I fail to see how GPA is a poor indicator of someone's abilities. It's not an arbitrary number and, while it may differ a bit from university to university, generally speaking you can tell from looking at someone's GPA how hard they worked at university and how strong of a student they are. Doesn't really apply so much to the GRE, which is taken in one sitting and only really reflects a student's performance in one very specific incident.

I said that GPA by itself is a poor indicator of how well one will do in graduate school (since undergrad work differs massively from grad work). It provides SOME useful information, re: study habits and the like, but not enough to make an informed decision on. Hence the necessity of other components of the admissions model.

Again, a bad GRE score is no reason to despair -- admissions is a holistic process so if your app is otherwise solid, a low GRE score won't tank it (probably). But that doesn't mean the GRE is useless.

i agree! one of my profs told me that my gpa means nothing and that the gre is the only measure of intelligence, i was so horrified

but really, it has to indicate something, like 20 courses over a span of 4 years, having to take classes that aren't in you rmajor etc, if you can consistently do well then.....it means your doing something right.

LOL, well, that prof is full of crap. The GRE is not a measure of intelligence; if it were it would be nearly impossible to study for it!