Fall 2016 Applicants

[qwer7890]

13 hours ago, northeastregional said:

... I don't think you can claim to be more of an expert about what actually happens to students who enter PhD programs until you've been there. It's a matter of experience and expertise. Unless you, like my wife, served on an admissions committee this fall, we are more qualified to speak about graduate admissions in art history than you are.... 

It seems entirely unprofessional and inappropriate (not to mention mean spirited) to share information about your wife's experience "on an admissions committee" on an anonymous, public internet forum. Even without identifying information, it breeches a vital trust that application materials are treated with respect and utmost discretion by faculty committees. I think you're doing a real disservice to everyone involved in the process. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by qwer7890

[bosie_dearest]

On 2/26/2016 at 6:03 PM, northeastregional said:

My partner is tenure track in the field (he's on that spreadsheet, actually) but I'm not sure he'd start over knowing what he knows now - he feels the ethical burden of taking on PhD he knows he won't be able to place on the job market.

I think the most inappropriate thing about @northeastregional sharing things about "his wife's" experience is that less than a month ago he(/she?) apparently had a male partner...? Get your stories straight before you troll, dude.

[northeastregional]

2 hours ago, bosie_dearest said:

I think the most inappropriate thing about @northeastregional sharing things about "his wife's" experience is that less than a month ago he(/she?) apparently had a male partner...? Get your stories straight before you troll, dude.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[futurestandysgrad]

I think this has been discussed before, but can anyone give me thoughts on NYU's Masters program? 

[welshforjohn]

1 hour ago, futurestandysgrad said:

I think this has been discussed before, but can anyone give me thoughts on NYU's Masters program? 

Same. I just got accepted today. Does anyone have any idea what the acceptance rate is for their master's program? It seems like the majority of people who have posted, including past years, have been accepted into the master's program. Is it not that selective? I know it's not as selective as their PhD program, obviously, but I thought it was still selective. It is NYU, after all. Is it under 50% at the VERY least? Otherwise, I'm not going to feel as good about myself as I did earlier today lol

Btw, trolls need not answer. @northeastregionalYou need to get your head out of your own ass. You sound as narcissistic as Donald Trump and Kanye West. I scored in the 97th percentile on the verbal portion of the GRE. I know there are some people who did better than me, but I still did better than 97% of those who took it. Please don't question my abilities or assume that I'm not intelligent enough just because I didn't get into a program. Please don't do the same for other posters, as well. Don't you know what they say? To assume is to make an ass out of u and me.

[bosie_dearest]

For those of you curious about the MA program at the IFA: as a PhD admit who is totally enamored of the IFA, I've heard less-than-stellar things about their MA program. It's biggest (only?) problem, obviously, is that it's a cash cow for the PhD, so they'll admit as many MA students as they need in order to fund the PhDs. In fact, if you look at the numbers, there are around 10 PhD students per cohort, and about 50 MAs. Each PhD student receives about half a million dollars over the course of their 6 years (in the form of stipend, tuition, healthcare, fees, etc), meaning a cohort of 10 is equivalent to an investment of about $5 million over 6 years on the part of the IFA. A cohort of 50 MA students paying ~$50,000/year will generate $5 million for the IFA by the time they graduate -- or, exactly enough to fund one PhD cohort. 

So, basically, if you're in the MA program, not only do you know that you're basically paying the PhD student sitting next to you in lecture, but you're competing against 49 other MAs to get a limited number of places in seminars/letters of rec from profs/internships at museums/etc etc, many of which are effectively reserved for PhD students already. I hate to speak ill of my own soon-to-be institution, but I know that there are lots of other, more selective MA programs (UT Austin, Tufts, Williams, SUNY Stonybrook) who take care to fund their students, whether partially or fully, and which are better respected in academia overall. That said, if you have the means to fund yourself and won't spiral into horrible debt trying to live in New York, you'll absolutely get a world-class education at the IFA and potentially make lots of important connections -- I just wouldn't go into debt to make that happen.

Edited March 19, 2016 by bosie_dearest

[Mirrorical_Return]

I attended IFA, NYU as an MA student. 

They accept around 35% of applicants, including a sizeable degree of PhD rejects. There are about 40-45 MA students who attend per cohort, including the 6 conservation program admits, which have free tuition and a generous stipend, which is larger than most PhD  stipends each year, and the 2-4 library science students who earn a dual degree with Long Island University.

Yes, all unfunded MA programs are cash cows for PhD students and it's no surprise but that does not mean it's not worth attending this top tier program. This rings especially true if you're interested in museum work. If you are financially independent and by federal standards poor, you practically don't have to worry about your loan at all, especially for all the benefits you will gain attending this program. Through IBR and PAYE you'll be paying back the price of an expensive cellphone bill each month and if you work in non-profit upon graduating, your loan will be completely forgiven in ten years. On the flip side, if your family is forking over the money and your goals can be met by attending this program, by all means attend.

First of all, it’s clear upon the first day of classes that IFA thought very carefully about who they were accepting, even MAs. The concentrations in which people want to specialize are shockingly diverse. Furthermore, out of the 40 students, these students have very different goals. And keep in mind, at least 6 of them are going to take conservation jobs, 2-4 are interested in art libraries, and a surprising chunk are interested in art education. 

Once you really narrow it down to your interests and who shares them, the competition suddenly seems less scary. You realize by attending IFA you are automatically THE national, if not international competition, in comparison with so many programs.

I never had trouble getting into a seminar or colloquium I applied to and neither did anyone in my cohort that I ever spoke to.

If you are passionate, well-versed in, and love what you do, you will get those internships, jobs, conference spots, and fellowships. I’m living proof. You’ll get some job e-mails from NYU every once in awhile looking for part-time professors, which are only reserved for PhD students but who cares? If you think you’re not the type of person to achieve these things, then spend some time with yourself and make sure you have the drive to stand out or that your interests are niche enough to make what you do truly worthwhile.

You can go to Stony Brook, Tufts, or UT Austin but good luck getting the networking opportunities and job offers that an IFA MA graduate gets.

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Mirrorical_Return

[bosie_dearest]

@Mirrorical_Return I'm surprised you downvoted me, as I think we're saying the same thing! I wanted to explain the specifics of financing at the IFA, as I know when I was considering applying for MA programs and people said the phrase "cash cow", I wasn't sure what they meant. Also, just as I said, if you're independently wealthy, the IFA is obviously amazing and nothing should stop you from attending! There are a few ways to mitigate debt from an MA, but not everyone will be so lucky as to work for a non-profit, etc., and not everyone wants a terminal MA. I agree, as far as job connections go, the IFA is tops, but if you're getting an MA to prep you for a PhD, there's no reason not to take a funded offer at a place like Stonybrook or Austin over going into an insurmountable amount of debt from attending the IFA. 

I certainly didn't mean to offend you or minimize your (or anyone's) accomplishment in being accepted into or attending the program, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I just wanted to contribute what I've learned so far about the program so those still on the fence can make an informed decision.

[Mirrorical_Return]

Oops, I guess I got a little defensive there. I just wanted to make sure that someone was there to put a more positive spin on the MA program. If you put yourself out there, it's absolutely worth attending. I think I can agree that if you're looking towards a PhD, with your eye on an eventual tenure track or something (*mild giggle* because the idea of getting a tenure track is a whole new level of needing to be competitive,) then it's somewhat unnecessary to choose IFA over a funded program.

IFA doesn't necessarily help your chances for getting into a PhD program in itself but it is helpful for getting work, fellowships, internships, you name it. I'll upvote to counteract the downvote!

[mxborder]

1 hour ago, Mirrorical_Return said:

Yes, all unfunded MA programs are cash cows for PhD students and it's no surprise but that does not mean it's not worth attending this top tier program. This rings especially true if you're interested in museum work. If you are financially independent and by federal standards poor, you practically don't have to worry about your loan at all, especially for all the benefits you will gain attending this program. Through IBR and PAYE you'll be paying back the price of an expensive cellphone bill each month and if you work in non-profit upon graduating, your loan will be completely forgiven in ten years. On the flip side, if your family is forking over the money and your goals can be met by attending this program, by all means attend.

I have nothing to say about the IFA MA itself, but I just want to correct some assumptions about the way IBR works. After the forgiveness period, when your loan is "forgiven," every dollar that is forgiven counts as "income" for that year's tax bill. If you are paying IBR rates, you are barely making a dent in the interest, and hardly touching the principal at all, so you can expect your $100,000 loan amount (if you took out loans for the $32-something-k a year tuition, plus living expenses in NY) to be significantly more than that. So if you're paying let's say a tax rate of 20%, all of a sudden you are expected to fork over $20,000 when you go to pay taxes when the debt is forgiven. I guess you can make a repayment deal with the IRS, and I suppose that's easier than trying to negotiate with collections, but idk man, it really seems irresponsible to say "you practically don't have to worry about your loan at all." 

Edited March 19, 2016 by mxborder
Oops, my bad. If you do a public service loan forgiveness it's not taxable. But for regular IBR, this is still true.

[feelthebern16]

18 minutes ago, mxborder said:

I have nothing to say about the IFA MA itself, but I just want to correct some assumptions about the way IBR works. After the forgiveness period, when your loan is "forgiven," every dollar that is forgiven counts as "income" for that year's tax bill. If you are paying IBR rates, you are barely making a dent in the interest, and hardly touching the principal at all, so you can expect your $100,000 loan amount (if you took out loans for the $32-something-k a year tuition, plus living expenses in NY) to be significantly more than that. So if you're paying let's say a tax rate of 20%, all of a sudden you are expected to fork over $20,000 when you go to pay taxes when the debt is forgiven. I guess you can make a repayment deal with the IRS, and I suppose that's easier than trying to negotiate with collections, but idk man, it really seems irresponsible to say "you practically don't have to worry about your loan at all." 

this just ruined my life 

 

[mxborder]

1 minute ago, feelthebern16 said:

this just ruined my life 

 

But I was wrong about the public service aspect of it! If you have forgiveness from working in public service for 10 years, it's not taxable. 

[feelthebern16]

1 hour ago, mxborder said:

But I was wrong about the public service aspect of it! If you have forgiveness from working in public service for 10 years, it's not taxable. 

So only 8 more years of adjuncting to go!  Lol. Thanks @mxborder for the info.

[Mirrorical_Return]

In that case, I hope that all my fellow IFA MA alumni and current attendees get not-for-profit jobs who are in this financial situation. This isn't too far-fetched considering that's what many people who attend are looking to go into; lucky art historians.
 

[radredhead]

On 3/19/2016 at 1:25 PM, Mirrorical_Return said:

Yes, all unfunded MA programs are cash cows for PhD students and it's no surprise but that does not mean it's not worth attending this top tier program. This rings especially true if you're interested in museum work. If you are financially independent and by federal standards poor, you practically don't have to worry about your loan at all, especially for all the benefits you will gain attending this program. Through IBR and PAYE you'll be paying back the price of an expensive cellphone bill each month and if you work in non-profit upon graduating, your loan will be completely forgiven in ten years. On the flip side, if your family is forking over the money and your goals can be met by attending this program, by all means attend.

I'm sorry, but I REALLY disagree with this advice. From first hand experience coming from a low-income family (I did undergrad on the max. amount pell grant & other forms of aid,) banking on IBR and PAYE is not a fail-safe for your future. Your income tax bracket determines if you qualify for IBR, and if you get married & file jointly it will be an even lower threshold of income to qualify for this payment plan. Some private companies do not allow forbearance or deferment even in the event of unemployment. Graduated payment plans are only a temporary relief. The 10 year forgiveness for working at a non-profit requires consecutive payments. Qualifying for this is very uncommon and realistically, you will not be consistently employed for this period of time. It is also much more likely for government sectors than an "typical" non-profit. Student loans are real shit. They are not something to ignore now and figure out down the road. I would call your financial aid office and potential lender and get all the facts before trusting someone on a message forum, even me.

[Mirrorical_Return]

12 hours ago, radredhead said:

I'm sorry, but I REALLY disagree with this advice. From first hand experience coming from a low-income family (I did undergrad on the max. amount pell grant & other forms of aid,) banking on IBR and PAYE is not a fail-safe for your future. Your income tax bracket determines if you qualify for IBR, and if you get married & file jointly it will be an even lower threshold of income to qualify for this payment plan. Some private companies do not allow forbearance or deferment even in the event of unemployment. Graduated payment plans are only a temporary relief. The 10 year forgiveness for working at a non-profit requires consecutive payments. Qualifying for this is very uncommon and realistically, you will not be consistently employed for this period of time. It is also much more likely for government sectors than an "typical" non-profit. Student loans are real shit. They are not something to ignore now and figure out down the road. I would call your financial aid office and potential lender and get all the facts before trusting someone on a message forum, even me.

You're right. My paragraph completely assumes that you don't plan on marrying, like me, and you highly doubt your pay will rise above $60K within the next ten years. With a realistic salary being no more than $45K a year, you're paying no more than $250 a month and by working at a not-for-profit, which does cover organizations that are not necessarily federally funded, you end up paying back a fraction of your loan. But please, do talk to your financial aid advisor. They will be vague but at least they're professionals in this area, which I cannot claim to be. Also, I believe to qualify for PAYE, the better version of IBR, you would have to be taking out federal loans for the first time, which some people are lucky enough to qualify for.

[radredhead]

1 hour ago, Mirrorical_Return said:

You're right. My paragraph completely assumes that you don't plan on marrying, like me, and you highly doubt your pay will rise above $60K within the next ten years. With a realistic salary being no more than $45K a year, you're paying no more than $250 a month and by working at a not-for-profit, which does cover organizations that are not necessarily federally funded, you end up paying back a fraction of your loan. But please, do talk to your financial aid advisor. They will be vague but at least they're professionals in this area, which I cannot claim to be. Also, I believe to qualify for PAYE, the better version of IBR, you would have to be taking out federal loans for the first time, which some people are lucky enough to qualify for.

I make a salary within the range you quote and I no longer qualify for IBR. I am single with no dependents. I work for a non-profit (albeit not yet 10 years.) I'm not sure if you are also speaking from firsthand experience, but the fact is that this IBR is not a reliable plan and if you bank on it for getting you through your loans, you may put yourself in a very risky financial situation.

[Neist]

3 hours ago, Mirrorical_Return said:

Also, I believe to qualify for PAYE, the better version of IBR, you would have to be taking out federal loans for the first time, which some people are lucky enough to qualify for.

I have no stake in this conversation, but I thought it might be worth airing that there is an easier-to-gain repayment plan (at least easier than PAYE) called REPAYE.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/repaye

It's not quite as good as PAYE, but it's probably better than IBR.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Neist
Ugh. Typos.

[Mirrorical_Return]

8 hours ago, radredhead said:

I make a salary within the range you quote and I no longer qualify for IBR. I am single with no dependents. I work for a non-profit (albeit not yet 10 years.) I'm not sure if you are also speaking from firsthand experience, but the fact is that this IBR is not a reliable plan and if you bank on it for getting you through your loans, you may put yourself in a very risky financial situation.

I don't have IBR but under the factors you provided, you should qualify and be paying around $226 a month, so there must be some uncommon factor that is keeping you from being approved. This is not the case for most people who are within this salary range.

[radredhead]

16 hours ago, Mirrorical_Return said:

I don't have IBR but under the factors you provided, you should qualify and be paying around $226 a month, so there must be some uncommon factor that is keeping you from being approved. This is not the case for most people who are within this salary range.

If you don't have experience with IBR, you shouldn't be telling people how it works. You clearly don't understand how the conditions vary and you're pulling that $226 number out of nowhere. I've moved through 3 tax brackets within the last 5 years. I am extremely familiar with filing for IBR, seeing if I qualify for PAYE (but not REPAYE, as another poster mentioned,) the graduated payment plan, deferments, forbearance, and loan consolidation. There is no uniform way to estimate this for people, and as tax brackets differ by state, your advice most likely is only close to being accurate for New York residents. I'm certain it isn't, however, as I've also lived in New York state and didn't experience what you are talking about. But no, instead of admitting you might be wrong about something, you're digging your heels and misinforming everyone on this board.

I'm not telling anyone what they should expect to pay, and I'm not suggesting people do not apply for IBR. It's a great option and if you qualify, I think you should definitely take advantage of it. However, I don't think anyone should take out loans expecting to fall back on this, or that they should go in with a number in their head, only to be shocked when they find out they have to pay more than estimated.

Edited March 22, 2016 by radredhead

[Mirrorical_Return]

As if I'd make up such a seemingly arbitrary number: http://www.aie.org/pay-for-college/manage-costs/find-out-if-you-qualify-for-income-based-repayment.cfm. Your situation is not typical and I imagine people are intelligent enough to figure out if it makes sense for them, based on their own individual circumstances. I'm sorry that you don't qualify but under the circumstances I initially listed, most people would.

[radredhead]

30 minutes ago, Mirrorical_Return said:

As if I'd make up such a seemingly arbitrary number: http://www.aie.org/pay-for-college/manage-costs/find-out-if-you-qualify-for-income-based-repayment.cfm. Your situation is not typical and I imagine people are intelligent enough to figure out if it makes sense for them, based on their own individual circumstances. I'm sorry that you don't qualify but under the circumstances I initially listed, most people would.

 just did this calculator with my info from when I did qualify for IBR and the result is completely different from what happened in reality. I wouldn't trust this source, and I wouldn't rely on a third party online calculator to give an accurate estimate of what one would actually pay. You have no idea if my situation is typical or not - what's your sample size from making that assumption? You are wrong on this issue. Go through the process yourself before you start advising people on it. That's the last I'm going to say to you regarding this.

[Neist]

4 minutes ago, radredhead said:

 just did this calculator with my info from when I did qualify for IBR and the result is completely different from what happened in reality. I wouldn't trust this source, and I wouldn't rely on a third party online calculator to give an accurate estimate of what one would actually pay. You have no idea if my situation is typical or not - what's your sample size from making that assumption? You are wrong on this issue. Go through the process yourself before you start advising people on it. That's the last I'm going to say to you regarding this.

Again, just airing it out into the world, here's an official calculator.  You can even log into the website, and it'll automatically import your loan numbers in.

https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action

 

[radredhead]

Ah, ok, I see the main issue with @Mirrorical_Return's scenario - he is assuming that the loans are coming from post July 1, 2014. If you are a new borrower from after this period, then yes it's possible you could get an IBR rate with a salary of ~45k. However, seeing as this is grad school, it's very likely a lot of people on this forum already have taken out loans for their undergraduate education, and therefore will not qualify in that hypothetical. I'm not sure if the "new" loans would be charged 226 & the old ones a non-IBR rate--making your monthly payment still much higher than quoted--or if consolidating all the loans into one gives you that post-July 1 2014 estimate. I consolidated my loans in 2015 and was still given IBR consideration based on the original date the loans were taken out, which took me out of qualification in my latest tax bracket. So, again, this is a question for the lender and not a message forum.

Edited March 22, 2016 by radredhead

[Neist]

8 minutes ago, radredhead said:

Ah, ok, I see the main issue with @Mirrorical_Return's scenario - he is assuming that the loans are coming from post July 1, 2014. If you are a new borrower from after this period, then yes it's possible you could get an IBR rate with a salary of ~45k. However, seeing as this is grad school, it's very likely a lot of people on this forum already have taken out loans for their undergraduate education, and therefore will not qualify in that hypothetical. I'm not sure if the "new" loans would be charged 226 & the old ones a non-IBR rate--making your monthly payment still much higher than quoted--or if consolidating all the loans into one gives you that post-July 1 2014 estimate. I consolidated my loans in 2015 and was still given IBR consideration based on the original date the loans were taken out, which took me out of qualification in my latest tax bracket. So, again, this is a question for the lender and not a message forum.

I've wondered this as well. If anyone has an answer to this, I'd be very interested in hearing it.