Infertility and wanting to leave program

[pippapants]

I am hoping someone can normalize my stress and tell me I'm not crazy.

So, last fall I applied to several programs and was offered full funding and a fellowship at the one I chose.  We bought a house in the new state and arranged to move.  I found out over the summer that I might carry a genetic problem that will limit our ability to have healthy children, so I had a blood test and waited for the results.  In the mean time, we moved to our new state and I petitioned to take on a quarter-time research appointment (above the 12 credit hours of courses) with a very successful faculty member.

The week school started, I got the results of the test, which confirmed I have the genetic problem.  I was concerned about what that would mean for us and thought about withdrawing then, but I was encouraged to stay the course and "take one day at a time."  We had planned to wait until I was finished with coursework to try to start a family, but I am in my mid-thirties, and a genetic counselor told us in September that if we wanted a family, we needed to start now, as it may take a few years or more.  We could try naturally with likely recurrent miscarriages, or we could try IVF with genetic screening.

I talked with my program director about family planning and was told I absolutely should put it off.  When I relayed the concerns about my genetic status, I was told to do what I had to do, and I would be supported.  Forgive me if I feel that was not supportive.  My research adviser has been more supportive but is extremely demanding.  My quarter-time appointment is more intense and stressful than some people's half-time appointments.  I traveled three times last semester for it.

We elected to start IVF in November, and it's been awful.  IVF is a physically, emotionally, financially draining process with no certainty afforded to anyone -- least of all, people like us who produce a large percentage of chromosomally abnormal gametes.  The hormones are awful, and with each step there is an agonizing wait to see how or if you will proceed.  If you eff up any one step (too few follicles recruited, too few eggs retrieved, too few eggs fertilized, too few embryos make it to genetic screening, OR no viable embryos), you have to start over, seek a second opinion, etc.  I struggled to finish the semester, taking an extra week on a large paper.  (That said, I was praised for my work.)  I missed an opportunity with my research group last week (and several classes) because I had a procedure.

This semester, I have a higher course load than last (14 units) (on my adviser's suggestion), plus my research, plus genetic screening of embryos, a possible transfer, or another IVF cycle.  I was hoping to have some certainty on the fertility front by now, but it hasn't happened.  I am struggling to concentrate and get stuff done.  Maybe I'm silly, but I can spend hours reading articles about people with my status, how to optimize an IVF cycles, statistics related to treatments, etc.  I spend hours waiting by the phone for results, hoping I will somehow find some certainty or answers to what the next month will hold.

I am concerned I will not make it through the semester.  I know I need to tell people in my department that I'm struggling, but I'm afraid of their reactions (since not everyone has been supportive).  I don't think I can reduce my course load to a manageable amount without forfeiting my tuition waiver and stipend.  I think I would rather withdraw or take a leave of absence.  Relaxing and bingeing on Netflix sounds so much more appealing right now than conquering 5 classes and research.

Bottom line:  Am I crazy?  Has anyone else been through this?

[MarkMc]

It's certainly not an easy position you're in and I'm sure not many can truly appreciate the situation you're dealing with.  A few things jump out me in terms of items to consider, which you may have already done.

1.  If you were able to withdraw or take a leave of absence - what would you do?  Work?  Take time off?  Would you be satisfied with either of these?  Would the improve your position?  Would there be other stresses that would easily overtake the ones you might leave behind? 

2.  Are there individuals in your department, program, school, etc that can understand what you're going through?  It sounds as though you're somewhat left on your own there.  What about previous programs?  Often the opportunity to talk through things can make it easier.  If you don't feel you have that in your department - is there someone else somewhere that take help you alleviate some of the pressure?  If your spouse isn't in academia it can often be hard to understand the dynamics at play.  While you have a partner supporting you mentally and emotionally, without true insight to the challenges that can sometimes become a bit of a rub.

3.  Have you talked to the counseling center/office at your program?  Often just the process of talking through things can be helpful.  Certainly they're mindful of the challenges at your particular university.  Also, they may be able to help carve inroads to get yourself into a position where you can handle what's going on.

There's no right answer here.  There may be benefits to leaving, but surely there are to staying (if not, you may have answered your own question).  If you leave you may have to face student loan bills coming, one income covering a mortgage or rent (instead of two) so on and so forth.  I've been going through the PhD application paces and deciding what's next for my family situation.  I'm single, but want kids.  Wanted to adopt, but adopting as a single male is still difficult.  I went the egg donor/gestational carrier route to suffer a miscarriage around 6 weeks.  It was very trying.  However I had a very clear plan to get to a PhD/Doctoral program that I'll continue to work until the path I'm on isn't passable.  It will require compromises and shifts, but I'll work through it.  If I reach that point where it becomes so difficult that other options are better, offer to alleviate unmanageable stress without major challenges, etc. I'll weigh them at that time. Personally, I'm not at that point so I continue to work the plan I've set out and hope things continue to progress in my favor.

[St Andrews Lynx]

I'm sorry that you and your partner are going through this. Yes, it does sound crazy-making stressful. 

Don't feel that you have to disclose everything to the Dept. I think it is enough to say that you are struggling and have been experiencing "health issues" without getting too specific. You also might need to push back against your advisor and re-negotiate their suggested course load.

The only other question to what has been asked above is whether the PhD program will get easier after this semester. Do you have further semesters of classes & coursework? Is there a way to get a research appointment that takes up fairer quantities of time vs. credit? If the IVF is going to continue for several years, how well will you continue to balance it with the demands of the program? 

Ultimately, if you believe the final decision you make is best for you...then it almost certainly is. Take care.

[pippapants]

49 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

It's certainly not an easy position you're in and I'm sure not many can truly appreciate the situation you're dealing with.  A few things jump out me in terms of items to consider, which you may have already done.

1.  If you were able to withdraw or take a leave of absence - what would you do?  Work?  Take time off?  Would you be satisfied with either of these?  Would the improve your position?  Would there be other stresses that would easily overtake the ones you might leave behind? 

2.  Are there individuals in your department, program, school, etc that can understand what you're going through?  It sounds as though you're somewhat left on your own there.  What about previous programs?  Often the opportunity to talk through things can make it easier.  If you don't feel you have that in your department - is there someone else somewhere that take help you alleviate some of the pressure?  If your spouse isn't in academia it can often be hard to understand the dynamics at play.  While you have a partner supporting you mentally and emotionally, without true insight to the challenges that can sometimes become a bit of a rub.

3.  Have you talked to the counseling center/office at your program?  Often just the process of talking through things can be helpful.  Certainly they're mindful of the challenges at your particular university.  Also, they may be able to help carve inroads to get yourself into a position where you can handle what's going on.

There's no right answer here.  There may be benefits to leaving, but surely there are to staying (if not, you may have answered your own question).  If you leave you may have to face student loan bills coming, one income covering a mortgage or rent (instead of two) so on and so forth.  I've been going through the PhD application paces and deciding what's next for my family situation.  I'm single, but want kids.  Wanted to adopt, but adopting as a single male is still difficult.  I went the egg donor/gestational carrier route to suffer a miscarriage around 6 weeks.  It was very trying.  However I had a very clear plan to get to a PhD/Doctoral program that I'll continue to work until the path I'm on isn't passable.  It will require compromises and shifts, but I'll work through it.  If I reach that point where it becomes so difficult that other options are better, offer to alleviate unmanageable stress without major challenges, etc. I'll weigh them at that time. Personally, I'm not at that point so I continue to work the plan I've set out and hope things continue to progress in my favor.

1. I do have options if I leave.  I have a master's degree that will allow me to find full-time or part-time employment immediately in my city.  In fact, in my field, most faculty positions require 2 years of clinical experience.  I chose to forego those two years, thinking that I would be an amaze-balls researcher and be able to have my pick of R1 jobs.  Not turning out that way.  Would I be happy in a 9-5 job?  Probably happier than I am now, where I have no free time to cry over the injustices of my situation, or go to movies with my spouse to take my mind off things, or nap because my injections make me tired and menopausal but unable to sleep at night.
2. I have spoken with a few people in my department and people from my master's program.  Unfortunately, the reaction I have gotten has not been positive.  Another student communicated her disapproval to me, telling me I would be better off if I waited for a few years, because "it really doesn't make a difference."  She told me that no one would take me seriously if I have children during courses.  My mentor from my old program generally expresses a dislike of people with children, because they aren't committed and cannot be counted on, in her opinion.  You can imagine her reaction when I told her what we were doing.  She asked why we couldn't just adopt in a few years?  (Because I want to try to have my own children?) She said she hopes fertility treatments don't last long.
3. I have not called the counseling center.  Really, things hadn't been too bad until last week -- first week of the semester and invasive procedure that didn't go as well as hoped.  I will probably try to do that when I get a chance.

I'm sorry for the difficulties you have faced as a single male who wants children.  I curse all those people who have "accidental" children.  I mean, really, it's not fair.

47 minutes ago, St Andrews Lynx said:

I'm sorry that you and your partner are going through this. Yes, it does sound crazy-making stressful. 

Don't feel that you have to disclose everything to the Dept. I think it is enough to say that you are struggling and have been experiencing "health issues" without getting too specific. You also might need to push back against your advisor and re-negotiate their suggested course load.

The only other question to what has been asked above is whether the PhD program will get easier after this semester. Do you have further semesters of classes & coursework? Is there a way to get a research appointment that takes up fairer quantities of time vs. credit? If the IVF is going to continue for several years, how well will you continue to balance it with the demands of the program? 

Ultimately, if you believe the final decision you make is best for you...then it almost certainly is. Take care.

I don't know if it will get easier after this semester, and I don't know how long IVF/fertility struggles will last.  I have met people in a support group who went through 5 cycles, and people who have suffered 15-20 early term miscarriages because they elected to try naturally.  Like I said, no certainty and no guarantees.

After this semester, the course load will lighten a bit, but the research commitment will double next fall.

[Neist]

1 hour ago, pippapants said:

I have spoken with a few people in my department and people from my master's program.  Unfortunately, the reaction I have gotten has not been positive.  Another student communicated her disapproval to me, telling me I would be better off if I waited for a few years, because "it really doesn't make a difference."  She told me that no one would take me seriously if I have children during courses.  My mentor from my old program generally expresses a dislike of people with children, because they aren't committed and cannot be counted on, in her opinion.  You can imagine her reaction when I told her what we were doing.  She asked why we couldn't just adopt in a few years?  (Because I want to try to have my own children?) She said she hopes fertility treatments don't last long.

As a parent who is fixing to hopefully start graduate school in the fall, I can say that these people sound horrible. Horrible. Some of the hardest years of my education was when my daughter was a baby, and not only did I perform adequately, I excelled. Being a parent made me excel, even if it was far more difficult.

I've considered at length how I should respond to your initial post, and your last reply codified what I would do in your situation. If jobs are easily available with the education you currently obtain, and you want children, if I were in your situation, I'd attempt take a leave of absence and attempt to have children. And if they didn't like me making such a request, I would leave the program. To be honest, it doesn't sound like the environment I'd enjoy partaking.

Being a father is the most rewarding experience I've ever had. I would gladly work in hard labor for the rest of my life if I had to choose between furthering my education and being a good parent. Being a parent is that rewarding to me.

Again, this is just my personal opinion. You need to do what's best for you, but I definitely suggest you follow your instincts.

My two cents.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Neist
Darn typos...

[sjoh197]

I know someone who went through something similar, but had a not so happy ending. They tried fertility treatments and such, and she did end up leaving her program due to the stress of it all (which I understand). However, the fertility treatments in the end didn't work out. They didn't end up having bio children, and she gave up her program and never did end up finishing her PhD. I also know people who have successfully had children during their PhD and they did great. 

All of that to say that I think it would be really great to sit down at a calm and unstressful time, perhaps with your partner or someone else you really trust, and go through a pros cons list of the possible decisions before you. 

What are the chances of you actually having bio children? (Hard one when you don't really know the answer yet) Do you have the support network necessary to realistically finish your education with a newborn baby/ young toddler? Will you beat yourself up if your child spends a lot of its time with a sitter/daycare? Will you beat yourself up later in life for Not finishing your education if you do quit? Will you beat yourself up if your fertility treatments and such are unsuccessful? 

[pippapants]

2 hours ago, sjoh197 said:

I know someone who went through something similar, but had a not so happy ending. They tried fertility treatments and such, and she did end up leaving her program due to the stress of it all (which I understand). However, the fertility treatments in the end didn't work out. They didn't end up having bio children, and she gave up her program and never did end up finishing her PhD. I also know people who have successfully had children during their PhD and they did great. 

All of that to say that I think it would be really great to sit down at a calm and unstressful time, perhaps with your partner or someone else you really trust, and go through a pros cons list of the possible decisions before you. 

What are the chances of you actually having bio children? (Hard one when you don't really know the answer yet) Do you have the support network necessary to realistically finish your education with a newborn baby/ young toddler? Will you beat yourself up if your child spends a lot of its time with a sitter/daycare? Will you beat yourself up later in life for Not finishing your education if you do quit? Will you beat yourself up if your fertility treatments and such are unsuccessful? 

Your response makes me bristle a little bit.

While I appreciate the cautionary tale you offered, it's difficult to guess that couple's perspective on their situation.  Perhaps she would have spent her life regretting her decision to pursue a PhD over attempting to have their own children (which is my stance, if I put myself in their shoes).  Just because it didn't work out for them doesn't mean that she regretted her decision.  It seems like, from your perspective, it was a senseless decision.  We spent a lot of time discussing our options before we elected to go this route (including both embryo and egg donation, trying naturally, adopting, etc.), and in the end, we were able to identify that we really wanted to try to have our own children.  I personally don't think that is a decision anyone should have to defend or justify, even if it doesn't work out, just as I don't think anyone should have to defend their decision to pursue a career and a family at the same time, choosing to place their child in day care and to use the television or iPad to hold their attention while parents work or study or clean the house.  Those may not be decisions someone else would make, but happy, healthy children have come out of all kinds of families.  Personally, I try not to judge other people for their decisions.

We do stand a good chance of having our own children if we are patient and try.  An extensive family history going back several generations has provided us some guidance there -- no one has ended up childless, but the manner in which individuals have accomplished their goal varies.  Some folks have tried naturally for years, some have pursued IVF.  As someone who did not want to suffer repeated miscarriages, do invasive fetal testing, or have to choose to TFMR to avoid having a stillborn or a child who is unlike to survive to see his or her first birthday, fertility treatments were more attractive to us as a couple.  Trust me, I have spent hours revisiting this decision, and I still believe we made the right choice, when faced with no good choices.  If this cycle doesn't work, we will try another cycle, and likely move on to other options later.  That said, just because it will be difficult for us does NOT mean that trying is foolish or that I will spend my life regretting my choices, which sounds like what you were implying.

Having a family is not something we just decided to do for kicks -- it was always something we wanted, but we assumed it was something we could put off until I was done with coursework.  Like many women in their 30s, I bought into the idea that the biological clock was not a real thing.  We considered having children when I was in my master's program, and I chose at that point to put my education first.  Knowing what I know now, I am choosing to put my family first, and if I can make a PhD work, then great.  If not, then, well, I will find something else to do, because my percentage of chromosomally viable eggs is diminishing all the time.

As for your musings about my satisfaction with my life after having a child, those are questions I (or any parent) don't feel I should have to have the answers to, right now, as I don't have an infant.  I don't believe anyone knows how they will feel until they have had a child.  Some career-focused women decide they would rather work less, while women who planned to stay home find it suffocating and decide to return to the workforce.  It is be unfair to ask a hypothetical question, then hold the respondent to their answer when faced with those circumstances.  Does that make sense?

That said, I am hoping to pursue options to try to make things work for the time being.  If it turns out that I will face a serious financial penalty if I have to withdraw later in the semester, then I will have choices to make.

Edited January 19, 2016 by pippapants
typos

[sjoh197]

I think you are misinterpreting my story as being on the offensive, and for that I apologize. Having a child is a wonderful thing and I never assumed you were doing it for kicks or that trying is a senseless decision. I think you are projecting the negative responses you have gotten from others. .... the reason that I included said anecdote is that you really wont know what will happen, and there are many paths that you can go down, each with its own unique consequences. 

I wasn't attempting to make you justify your decisions to us, as I think doing what makes you happy, regardless what decision that is is great. I was just trying to show that there are many factors and each will have to be weighed, and even with as much planning as possible... you will never be able to fully plan for what hasn't happened. That is why I included questions that you will have to ask and answer to yourself... not us. No one needs to know why you make the decisions you do... other than you.

 

[sjoh197]

37 minutes ago, pippapants said:

 I personally don't think that is a decision anyone should have to defend or justify, even if it doesn't work out, just as I don't think anyone should have to defend their decision to pursue a career and a family at the same time, choosing to place their child in day care and to use the television or iPad to hold their attention while parents work or study or clean the house.  Those may not be decisions someone else would make, but happy, healthy children have come out of all kinds of families.  Personally, I try not to judge other people for their decisions.

  That said, just because it will be difficult for us does NOT mean that trying is foolish or that I will spend my life regretting my choices, which sounds like what you were implying.

As for your musings about my satisfaction with my life after having a child, those are questions I (or any parent) don't feel I should have to have the answers to, right now, as I don't have an infant. 

 

After reading your response again....you seem to think that I am very much judging you and thinking that you are making a terrible decision. Neither of these things are true, and I was never attempting to imply that you are being foolish. You put in a lot of subjective opinions that I never made. 

Nor was I judging people who put their children in daycare. I myself put my daughter in daycare and was fine with it. But I know many mothers that feel extremely guilty for the same thing. I have never judge working or stay at home mothers so long as they are doing their best to provide for their children. 

I understand that you are extremely stressed, but Jesus

[TakeruK]

19 hours ago, pippapants said:

I am hoping someone can normalize my stress and tell me I'm not crazy.

Your stress is legitimate! You are not crazy!! I have not been in your situation but I think you have every reason to be stressed and worried. And I also think you should have much  more support from your program director. The director has no right to tell you to "put it off". I argue a lot for student parent rights on my campus and whenever a faculty member makes frustrating comments like "grad school is not the right time to have children", my response is to tell them directly: "Faculty members should not dictate students' reproductive choices" or something to that effect. 

I don't have any advice for you regarding whether or not to continue because I don't think I'm in a position to give this advice. As @St Andrews Lynx said, the right choice is the best choice for you. 

However, I could provide some suggestions on where to get help on campus. Unfortunately, it sounds like your department is not supportive at all. This must be very frustrating because I feel that most students identify most with their own departments, and it must be very disappointing to find out that your own program doesn't have your back. But usually, there are other resources on campus. Can you talk to your school's Graduate Office, or similar entity? At my school, this would be the right office to talk to in order to get support on issues like this. The Dean at my school would talk to your department (with your consultation and permission) and mediate some kind of agreement to first help the faculty understand that they have no right to comment on your reproductive choices and second to work out a fair compromise between the research & course commitments and the time you need for your treatments. This might mean ensuring that you are not over-worked compared to your TA/RA appointment and maybe a reduction in course load. It could also mean some combination of this and taking a formal leave of absence. You might want to know that Pregnancy and Parental status are protected by Title IX laws---your program cannot discriminate against you for it (however, unfortunately, I don't think there are any laws about trying to get pregnant, but a reasonable person should extend the idea behind the Title IX laws to your situation.)

Edit to add: Also, the graduate office can also do things like help you break the news to your department and ask for help (it doesn't have to be them coming in as the "calvary"!) They likely have helped students through similar things in the past and they might even be able to help you identify an ally on the faculty side that you can approach first. Other resources (if your graduate office doesn't do things like this) may be your school's Diversity Center, Women's Center, Counseling Center, Health Center etc.)

[ts1493]

I'm a little late to respond, so I don't know if you're still checking this.  But I just wanted to validate your concerns.  A good friend of mine went through IVF during her PhD coursework and it was absolutely painful, emotionally draining, costly and difficult.  She had a much more supportive department though, and continued studying throughout.  She is now pregnant and getting some good continued support from her program.  Another friend timed her IVF course for during the summertime to lower the stress and not have to come to class bloated and in pain, and I wonder if that is an option for you?  I think some universities are shifting their policies around this kind of thing, so I would look beyond your department to see what kinds of rights to leave/accommodation you might, rather than dropping the program altogether.  I'm sure you've worked hard to get where you are and the department would hate to lose you.  Wishing you the best.