Okay to take on *some* debt?

[CatLady4Lyfe]

So, I know the general rule is: if there's no funding, it's not worth it. I get that. But I feel like I'm in such a grey area. Here is my situation:

Acceptance A:

Strong program. Amazing fit. I am in awe of my advisor and she respects my thoughts/opinions. Fully funded tuition, and stipend is enough to live on comfortably. IF I took out any extra loans, it would be completely optional if I wanted to live in a nicer/safer part of town (it's in Detroit). It's an R1 program, but is ranked a little on the lower end in that category. I'm not too concerned about ranking, though. 

Acceptance B:

Also strong program. Higher ranking, which is only important to me in that it comes with the possibility of more opportunities down the road (especially if I want to stay with neuroscience). I will find out about the fit when I visit next weekend. Advisor also seems okay so far. Maybe some reservations, but it's hard to get a feel for someone just over the phone. His current student has had nothing but great things to say. Fully funded tuition, but stipend is abysmal. $6,000 a year less than Acceptance A, and cost of living isn't that different. 

If I fall in love with Acceptance B after I visit (I have a feeling I am going to be blown away), do you think it's worth taking on extra loans? I'm estimating about 30-40k. I currently have about 90k in loans, which also plays a big role.

Thoughts???

[TakeruK]

I think ultimately, this is a personal decision because all of these considerations depend on what each person is comfortable with and what their experience has been. So, before I say my thoughts, I think I need to preface it with my experience: My parents came to Canada as refugees from a country after a war and they arrived here with nothing. I had many years growing up where financial stress was very high and even the children felt it. Over time, our family's financial situation got better but as a result of this, I think our entire family is very debt-adverse, except for absolutely necessary things like mortgages. Sometimes, I get irrational fears that I'll make a financial mistake and lose everything. So, I worked during undergrad to pay for tuition and I lived at home to save money. Canadian tuition is very affordable ($6000 or so per year) so I graduated debt-free and even had money saved up from working. 

When it was time for my grad school decisions, one of the biggest criteria was not only that the stipend pays for all of the life needs, but I wanted it to pay well enough that I can start saving towards other life goals (e.g. buying a home, starting a family). My opinion is that grad school is not an "investment" on yourself so I would never take an offer that would require a loan. Instead, my perspective is that grad school is an entry level position in a career path. I wouldn't take an unpaid internship in an expensive city to advance my career so I wouldn't take a grad school offer that didn't pay enough either. 

So, if I had the choice between the two programs that you have, I would definitely not take "B". I would not want to have a PhD and $30k-$40k in debt, and I definitely personally would not want to be over $100k in debt with a PhD. I might choose "A", depending on the subjective definition of comfort. I would normally include "living in a safe part of town" as part of the definition of "living comfortably" but I also know that "safe" is subjective (compared to my hometown, the current place I live is very safe but a lot of students here feel it's unsafe). 

Note: I'm not against temporary debt, especially if it is advantageous to take small amounts of debt and/or you have a plan to pay it off. For example, when my spouse and I moved to my PhD program, the plan was to take on about $10,000 in debt for the first year, but then pay it off because my spouse would have work authorization and a job by the second year. It worked out even better than expected---my spouse got a job earlier than 1 year and we got extra funding so there was no debt after all. In our second year, we took out a car loan even though we could have paid the car from our savings because the interest rate was lower than the amount of money we would lose to transfer our Canadian dollars to US dollars to pay for the car. So, I'm not completely against the idea of debt---I am mostly against choosing a job offer / career path that will put you in debt even after 5-7 years of your first position (i.e. grad school).

Again, this is not meant to be a judgement of other people's personal choices on attending school. I am just telling you how I feel and how I made my choice

[CatLady4Lyfe]

Thank you! What you said makes a lot of sense...I wish it were more cut and dry. And as much as I'm trying to be thorough and visit the campus, I have a feeling it's only going to make my decision harder : / Hopefully the fit within the department will help guide me as well. 

I know I'd be a lot more inclined to consider taking on that debt if my starting number was much less. It doesn't make it any easier that the disadvantages of choosing A are location/housing, which are some of the advantages of choosing B, where it's absolutely gorgeous Trying not to let that cloud my judgment as I've been getting discouraged somewhat at the housing options in Detroit. 

[Neist]

If you think it'll be a better environment for both a intellectual and practical reasons, I would probably take the loans. However, I wouldn't take on extra loans simply because of higher rankings. I'd personally only take on extra loans if it was a better place for me to learn.

Just my two cents.  

[rising_star]

You say you're not concerned about ranking when you talk about School A but it's one of the first things you included about School B... I'm guessing that you're more concerned with ranking than you're willing to let on. I mean, why are you so willing to believe that School B is going to top the "amazing fit" of School A? I would focus on the PI you would be working with, their placement track record, and the success of their current and previous students.

[CatLady4Lyfe]

No, not really about the ranking. I was just describing the situation and wrote them in different orders. I don't think this one about my subconscious   I have a feeling that School B is going to blow me away because of all those things you just listed - the PI, their placement, research fit, and also the location of the program. The city is absolutely stunning and just my style. The strength of their program is fantastic, I'm waiting to see how the fit is with me as a person and if that would be worth taking on the loans. Thanks, though. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by CatLady4Lyfe

[CatLady4Lyfe]

18 hours ago, Neist said:

If you think it'll be a better environment for both a intellectual and practical reasons, I would probably take the loans. However, I wouldn't take on extra loans simply because of higher rankings. I'd personally only take on extra loans if it was a better place for me to learn.

Just my two cents.  

I'm definitely with you! I suppose I won't know until I visit next week. Thanks!

[juilletmercredi]

No, I don't think it's worth the extra loans.

The amount that you'd be in debt all up would difficult to repay if you want to stay in academia (or even if you don't). You already said that School A has an amazing fit, amazing advisor, and it's a strong program. Why would you choose a school that is no better (and, in fact, that you have reservations about) but comes with an extra five figures of debt?

[Need Coffee in an IV]

I wouldn't take out loans because you already have 90K. I agree with @juilletmercredi

[blondeONblone]

Yikes! I don't think I would take on more debt with 90K already... that is a mortgage payment. I would definitely take option A.