On pretending the deadline is actually April 14

[FettuccineAlfrege]

So this is kind of a silly request, but it might actually prove helpful. Since it's a very real possibility that those of us on waitlists might not find out that we've been accepted somewhere until after the April 15th deadline (and might therefore have accepted a less desirable offer somewhere else), I was thinking that it might be a good idea for all of us to act as if the deadline were actually the 14th. If more offers are accepted that day rather than the next, it would (hopefully) free up more time on the 15th for departments to make new offers. 

 

Thoughts?

[AnotherKantFan]

This is a great great idea. Otherwise, f a few events in the 15th trigger a lot of WL movement, then we may be in trouble indeed!

[Schwarzwald]

I'd actually prefer the 10th. Have you seen philosophers? Not necessarily the most prompt bunch.

[FettuccineAlfrege]

15 minutes ago, Schwarzwald said:

I'd actually prefer the 10th. Have you seen philosophers? Not necessarily the most prompt bunch.

Haha yes, that's true. I'd prefer that too, but I know a lot of campus visits are right against the deadline. The 10th might be asking a little too much in those cases. 

[maxhgns]

2 hours ago, Schwarzwald said:

I'd actually prefer the 10th. Have you seen philosophers? Not necessarily the most prompt bunch.

 

 

No kidding. I was first on my waitlist, but found out on April 18 (after I emailed).

[AnotherKantFan]

19 minutes ago, maxhgns said:

 

 

No kidding. I was first on my waitlist, but found out on April 18 (after I emailed).

Do you guys think it's easy to get a written withdrawal from a program slightly after April 15th?

[Davidspring]

It's quite obvious that if people who got offers from top schools made their decisions as soon as possible, they would help a great number of students to be admitted off some top schools's waitlists and then these students would be able to help other students to be accepted off some decent schools's waitlists.  On the contrary, if everybody waited to make a last-minute decision before the deadline, then most people would be in trouble.

[Another applicant]

6 hours ago, Davidspring said:

It's quite obvious that if people who got offers from top schools made their decisions as soon as possible, they would help a great number of students to be admitted off some top schools's waitlists and then these students would be able to help other students to be accepted off some decent schools's waitlists.  On the contrary, if everybody waited to make a last-minute decision before the deadline, then most people would be in trouble.

As someone with accept/waitlist status at 5 top-10 schools, I agree. Those of us with offers at the top of the list have the strongest reasons to decide early. Hopefully I and others like me can pull the trigger by April 10.

[FroggyFriend]

Hi folks.  I know it's really frustrating, but please understand that part of the problem here is with programs' visiting days and not with the individual students with offers.  I have several offers, and I do not feel I can make a decision until after visiting the schools, and schools strongly encourage visiting on the official days.  But many programs have intentionally scheduled their visiting days pretty close to the deadline.  

[Davidspring]

2 hours ago, FroggyFriend said:

Hi folks.  I know it's really frustrating, but please understand that part of the problem here is with programs' visiting days and not with the individual students with offers.  I have several offers, and I do not feel I can make a decision until after visiting the schools, and schools strongly encourage visiting on the official days.  But many programs have intentionally scheduled their visiting days pretty close to the deadline.  

Thanks for letting us know about this.  I definitely take your point.  But those of us who are in a tricky situation in which we have to decide between waitlisted schools to which we really want to go and admitted weaker schools would very much appreciate it if people like you could decide at least two or three days prior to the deadline.

[Adequate Philosopher]

On 3/15/2016 at 1:03 PM, Davidspring said:

Thanks for letting us know about this.  I definitely take your point.  But those of us who are in a tricky situation in which we have to decide between waitlisted schools to which we really want to go and admitted weaker schools would very much appreciate it if people like you could decide at least two or three days prior to the deadline.

Amen.

[John_TheClimber]

Does anyone have a great article on the institutionalization of the 15th of April as the deadline by the APA? I think that would be an interesting read. 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by John_TheClimber
incomplete.

[MentalEngineer]

8 minutes ago, John_TheClimber said:

Does anyone have a great article on the institutionalization of the 15th of April as the deadline by the APA? I think that would be an interesting read. 

 

 

It's actually not restricted to philosophy. It's an agreement between 400+ members of the Council of Graduate Schools. The history of that would still be interesting to learn.

[John_TheClimber]

Just now, MentalEngineer said:

It's actually not restricted to philosophy. It's an agreement between 400+ members of the Council of Graduate Schools. The history of that would still be interesting to learn.

Very cool. Now I am more interested. 

[TakeruK]

On 3/15/2016 at 6:54 AM, dthatphilosopher said:

I respect everyone's right to make their decisions when they're ready, but I think it would be especially useful if folks with multiple offers (I'm talking about those folks with like 5+ good offers) turned down a few well before 4/10. I mean, you can't really consider all of 5 programs on the day of the deadline. At that point, you can really only compare 2 or maybe 3 programs seriously. Be kind and decline early, friends. 

This! I always tell everyone this as much as possible. Unless there are some extenuating circumstances (e.g. two body problem), there is usually little reason to hold more than 2 or 3 offers at the same time. I think most students can decide whether or not they are still considering a school within 48-72 hours after the visit. My last visit was in early March and a week after that I knew my top 3 choices so I declined everything else. Then, I spent a few days to think carefully about the top 3 choices and made a decision about mid-March. At this point, I had all of the information I needed to make a decision so I did it. 

I don't think there is any reason to wait until April 15 unless you are missing some important information to make your decision (e.g. a late visit or you need to hear about your partner's decisions too, or if you are also applying for jobs and want to hear that, or if you have some other commitment, such as family, that you need to also arrange). I feel like a lot of people I know will procrastinate and because they are given an April 15 deadline, they wait until April 15 to decide. I don't think this is responsible behaviour! This is not like a homework assignment---the professional thing to do is to wait until you have all the information you need, and then schedule time to think about it and consult with whomever you need, take a day or two to sleep on it, and then act.

3 hours ago, MentalEngineer said:

It's actually not restricted to philosophy. It's an agreement between 400+ members of the Council of Graduate Schools. The history of that would still be interesting to learn.

This is not the history of it, but if you want to read about it from the official source and with all of the caveats (it's not just an agreement on deadlines), see here: http://cgsnet.org/april-15-resolution

[Davidspring]

4 minutes ago, TakeruK said:

This! I always tell everyone this as much as possible. Unless there are some extenuating circumstances (e.g. two body problem), there is usually little reason to hold more than 2 or 3 offers at the same time. I think most students can decide whether or not they are still considering a school within 48-72 hours after the visit. My last visit was in early March and a week after that I knew my top 3 choices so I declined everything else. Then, I spent a few days to think carefully about the top 3 choices and made a decision about mid-March. At this point, I had all of the information I needed to make a decision so I did it. 

I don't think there is any reason to wait until April 15 unless you are missing some important information to make your decision (e.g. a late visit or you need to hear about your partner's decisions too, or if you are also applying for jobs and want to hear that, or if you have some other commitment, such as family, that you need to also arrange). I feel like a lot of people I know will procrastinate and because they are given an April 15 deadline, they wait until April 15 to decide. I don't think this is responsible behaviour! This is not like a homework assignment---the professional thing to do is to wait until you have all the information you need, and then schedule time to think about it and consult with whomever you need, take a day or two to sleep on it, and then act.

This is not the history of it, but if you want to read about it from the official source and with all of the caveats (it's not just an agreement on deadlines), see here: http://cgsnet.org/april-15-resolution

I can't agree more.  A DGS told me that they had very many talented students on the waitlist and hoped me to make a decision as soon as possible.  But given that my waitlisted schools, at least one of which is my top choice, mentioned to me that only very few of their initially admitted students had made decisions, I have to wait until they have done so.  I hope to help some folks out, but I just need some people to help me out first.

[TheJabberwock]

38 minutes ago, Davidspring said:

I can't agree more.  A DGS told me that they had very many talented students on the waitlist and hoped me to make a decision as soon as possible.  But given that my waitlisted schools, at least one of which is my top choice, mentioned to me that only very few of their initially admitted students had made decisions, I have to wait until they have done so.  I hope to help some folks out, but I just need some people to help me out first.

This. This seems to be the biggest thing slowing down everyone else: people who were admitted into a bunch of 'higher' up schools wait a substantial amount of time before making decisions. Then things slowly start to trickle down. As people said before, those in the 5+ category should probably whittle down their choices well before April 10th. I am dreading to hear back on April 15 and be on stand by to accept an offer if one is extended. I was last year and it increased the level of anxiety more than just regular waiting.

[TakeruK]

26 minutes ago, TheJabberwock said:

This. This seems to be the biggest thing slowing down everyone else: people who were admitted into a bunch of 'higher' up schools wait a substantial amount of time before making decisions. Then things slowly start to trickle down. As people said before, those in the 5+ category should probably whittle down their choices well before April 10th. I am dreading to hear back on April 15 and be on stand by to accept an offer if one is extended. I was last year and it increased the level of anxiety more than just regular waiting.

In addition, I should have added that it's also okay to withdraw applications before a decision is even made if you are already in possession of a more desirable offer. I know that some people want to wait to hear the outcome of their application, but if you know you are not interested in the school anymore then withdraw your application! The school won't be offended that you did so.

And, for those currently waitlisted, it is a good idea to remain in contact with the schools that waitlisted you so that you know what to expect / how they are going to resolve the waitlist on April 15. It could reduce stress! For example, one school in my field instructs their top waitlist candidates to be ready to take a phone call late in the day on April 15 (if possible) because as soon as they get decisions from applicants on April 15, they plan to call up waitlisted applicants right away. Other schools may tell you that they will take a day or two after the April 15 chaos and send all offers on April 17, so then this reduces the unknown and reduces stress!

Also, if you are on several waitlists then as soon as you accept one offer, please be sure to let all of the other schools that waitlisted you know that you are no longer interested in the position. Right after April 15, schools will immediately begin working down their waitlist and if they don't have to wait for you to respond with a "no thanks" then they can get to the next person a lot faster and they will appreciate it. Of course, this may not be appropriate for all schools, but this is why I recommend staying in contact with all your top waitlist choices so that you know what to expect.

Finally, while applicants with offers made prior to April 15 often have the luxury of several weeks to decide, offers made off the waitlist may not have this timeline. You may be asked to decide within 48-72 hours (because if you say no, they want to be able to get to the next person). As April 15 approaches, I would recommend doing research on all the schools and cities where you're waitlisted so that you have as much information possible to make a decision in a short timespan. You may even want to think about what you would like to ask students/professors at the program (if they can respond in time). It might even help to draft an email with questions (or a request to skype) and pre-select current students and faculty and then send the email in the case you get an offer with a short turnaround time. This last paragraph is mostly relevant to what I know about Physics programs, so this may not apply to Philosophy.

[thatsjustsemantics]

Let's be charitable to some of our top applicants; veiled resentment is unhealthy. A lot of applicants wait to make their decisions after visiting the department. Not all department visits are early. If there's something (more or less) to blame, blame departments: sometimes they schedule their visits obnoxiously in April. Moreover, let's be charitable to the departments (haha!). When there's over fifty departments trying to schedule visits, and some of these departments have applicants who will be visiting more than one school, they have to schedule their visits at an appropriate time. Imagine if MIT scheduled at the same time as Princeton, so applicants deciding between the two couldn't have an informed decision about where they'd like to go. Departments risk letting uninformed applicants decide where they would like to go, whereas it could have been the case that a visit to their department would have changed their initial leanings.

tl;dr it's too complicated to assign blame carelessly, where 'carelessly' means not giving enough purchase to others' discrepancies with respect to the waiting list.

Edited March 26, 2016 by thatsjustsemantics

[Davidspring]

1 hour ago, thatsjustsemantics said:

Let's be charitable to some of our top applicants; veiled resentment is unhealthy. A lot of applicants wait to make their decisions after visiting the department. Not all department visits are early. If there's something (more or less) to blame, blame departments: sometimes they schedule their visits obnoxiously in April. Moreover, let's be charitable to the departments (haha!). When there's over fifty departments trying to schedule visits, and some of these departments have applicants who will be visiting more than one school, they have to schedule their visits at an appropriate time. Imagine if MIT scheduled at the same time as Princeton, so applicants deciding between the two couldn't have an informed decision about where they'd like to go. Departments risk letting uninformed applicants decide where they would like to go, whereas it could have been the case that a visit to their department would have changed their initial leanings.

tl;dr it's too complicated to assign blame carelessly, where 'carelessly' means not giving enough purchase to others' discrepancies with respect to the waiting list.

I don't think we were blaming anyone.  Neither did we intend to hold resentment toward anyone.  Most of us would totally understand that a lot of top applicants need to wait to make decisions after they have visited the schools that admitted them.  But you are right: everyone of us should feel free to take our time to make decisions, so do our top applicants.  We would only be very grateful to those top applicants who decide early if they are able to.

[Jonathan13]

Honestly I think everything should be moved back to May 1st in the future. Visiting days are all in mid and late March and that makes things rushed. People should get 2 weeks to visit and then at least 1 week to think about that things. That would mean they respond to their offers around the first week of April ... which means the wait list usually only start moving around April 10th .... which only leaves 5 days for everything.

[gughok]

13 minutes ago, Jonathan13 said:

Honestly I think everything should be moved back to May 1st in the future. Visiting days are all in mid and late March and that makes things rushed. People should get 2 weeks to visit and then at least 1 week to think about that things. That would mean they respond to their offers around the first week of April ... which means the wait list usually only start moving around April 10th .... which only leaves 5 days for everything.

Unfortunately, moving the deadline back those two weeks would most likely just move everything else back by the same. Departments will inevitably take as long as they can to arrange the visits, and students will similarly take their time to make their decisions. It's a self-bootstrapping problem.

[TakeruK]

12 minutes ago, Jonathan13 said:

Honestly I think everything should be moved back to May 1st in the future. Visiting days are all in mid and late March and that makes things rushed. People should get 2 weeks to visit and then at least 1 week to think about that things. That would mean they respond to their offers around the first week of April ... which means the wait list usually only start moving around April 10th .... which only leaves 5 days for everything.

If the deadline was moved back to May 1st, then the visits will just get moved to April. When you give academics time, they will take their time. Also, I think you are being optimistic when you say things start moving around April 10th---at least in my field (I know it's different), the majority of the movement happens after April 15. So, moving the deadline back to May 1 will just make it even harder for people on waitlists because they would have to wait longer!

Also, some programs start in early August and visas for international students can take several months to process.