Should I Include Non-Complete Projects In My CV ?

[inertialdummy]

Hello,

I am a newbie here  and I just joined today. I hope this is the right place to ask this question.
I applied to an university for research the last summer, advisor invited me to an interview and told me that I have no prior research experience or anything that would prove my worth, that is my CV is practically empty.

However this is not the case. I worked in 2 labs, and attended 2 different projects along the way which resulted in nothing. So I excluded them from my CV.

I am a senior, I have sub 3.00 cgpa and in a bad financial situation, so I cannot apply anywhere except local schools for graduate school. 

Meanwhile a lot of people around me applied to various places. And I realized even though many lacked good grades and research they did compensated it with their huge ego.

I have watched people making really big deal out of everything they attend. I mean if they just attend a lab tour they mention in it their SoP, CV I mean everywhere!

I have been taught not to be greedy and a show off, so I am having real trouble here. I did panicked when the advisor thought I was nothing but a regular student, which is not the case at all! 

We are talking about regional fames here, so if someone wants me to get a rec letter from them I cannot get it because things did not worked and I left. I can use some marketing skills to make these hidden experiences look great of course, but I am not sure whether it is dishonest or not? 

[fuzzylogician]

Sure, as a general case, there is no reason not to list research experiences that did not lead to a publication. The point is you have the experience, and that is entirely independent of whether the project was eventually successful or not. This is not about showing off -- no one is suggesting that you embellish or claim results that aren't there, and anyone listing a lab tour as experience is obviously not doing it right. 

That said, if you left the lab in the middle and not on good terms, then that is a bit different. The problem isn't that the project wasn't complete, but that apparently you weren't successful. You could still list those experiences, but then don't be surprised if your intended PI reaches out to your former PI and learns about what happened, even if you don't get a letter from them. To me, as a PI, the fact that this happened twice would be a red flag. (Though, frankly, if you hid this and I hired you and later found out that you were a problem student and got kicked out of two labs, I would also not be very happy.)

[inertialdummy]

Thank you very much for answering .

Can I ask another question? This is another reason that I am panicking over this stuff.

That is, I am a mechanical engineering student but will be continuing with physics. Long story short, I did tried changing my major to physics but with very reasonable arguments my professor talked me out of it. Along the way I attended engineering related research and realized that I have no interest in graduate school in engineering. Meanwhile I drifted towards compSci and learned programming and now working as a developer. I do not want to be a mechE neither in academia nor in industry. So I see my occupation as a developer and my academic interest as physics. 

Should I indicate this point in my SoPs ? I will be applying for masters in physics.

I do not want to look like that I lack the focus or just soul searching. Again, there are some soul searchers who crowded the scene, so many profs I have talked are very cautious with people like me having a bit diverse interests and do not have stellar grades.
( I am panicking so much, I feel like finally I can get what I want but for some stupid reason or two I will fail.   )

[inertialdummy]

Just read the edit. I did left one on bad terms and other somewhat at a vague state really. These are a bit long story, so if you do not care to read, it is ok.
Vague one happened because the advisors there were not following up how the students were proceeding and not listening what they wanted to study on. At the end of july except me everybody coming for an undergrad research had left the lab . 

I am a mechanical engineering student, so basically this translates into lets give them some design problems and leave them alone. I was not interested in design at all, I was interested in non-linear control and programming related work, and made it very clear the day I started. The phd student I was to work with, sent me 5 papers and nearly finished design of the test set up and wanted me to contribute. I read the papers at least and after 2 weeks of being left alone on my own without clear goals, I reached out to the advisor and made it clear again this is not what I want to work with. So they changed my project and paired me up with another phd students. I worked with him like 2 to 3 months and quitted. I quitted for two reasons, first is that I saw no benefit for myself. I was not learning anything, at least properly, I was just writing make shift code and advisor was correcting it one way and phd stu. was correcting it the other way and I am being shuffled around in between. Reason two, I had too much courses that term, so basically I ran out of time and decided to focus on my studies and advisor saw that and said that he sees that I am more focused on my studies that I should take my time to finish those first then come. I honestly still think he was kindly letting me go for good.

Bad one happened because advisor was a really bad person. I heard some stories from friends about that lab and advisor but did not listened. He seemed attentive, and and invited me to work with him given my background ( I did not even applied, it just come about). I told him that I have low gpa, he said it is no problem, research would benefit me more in this case, once I managed to create some output my bad gpa would not look that bad.

I felt encouraged and accepted the job. I took the time and worked with him during my winter holiday instead of relaxing. We were two undergrad students with similar stories, working on the same project. I planned my next term studies according to the lab: I was planning to take 2 courses, work 2 days of part time developer job and rest was research.

The other friend was recent graduate with minor to complete and got employed full time. So other one was to take 4 undergrad courses, work 40 hours a week and attend research. I must add, the other was not stellar by any means, I can only add that she was being cute and obedient and often talked her way out of things and was proud with that. After a month of work, we had a meeting with advisor at last.

Advisor came and told me directly: that three works at once is not possible, that I should leave my job, that my cgpa was low I should repeat as much course as I can, that it did not mattered whether if I had 200 points IQ or I was dying out of interest for the field that they were not simply accepting people with cgpa below 3, that he cannot help me getting into masters and turned to other and congratulated her. I left the lab. I cried 2 days like a kid. I must make it clear that I have never ever asked anybody about helping me getting into graduate school or anything close to it. I was not even considering him as my future advisor! 

So, I kind of suffered unnecessarily a lot along the way I became too conscious and panicky. 

If you read all those thanks in advance, if not, well no problem at all.  Thanks again 

So I would not think they would say anything bad about me, they did not get to know me that long. And I must add I have 5 different great referees that I worked with during courses (which includes projects and research) willing to give me letters. So I am very confident that I am not a problem kid. 

Edited May 1, 2016 by inertialdummy
Wrong word

[fuzzylogician]

Short version: you were in one lab and quit after less than three months because you didn't feel like you were learning anything and you had a heavy course load. You were in the second lab for a month and quit because the PI told you that you were doing too many things, you should do fewer of them and do them better, because your current profile would make it hard for you to be admitted for a Masters program. Instead of taking this as the very wise advice that it sounds like, you got very offended and walked away. Yeah, I don't think this is useful research experience. And frankly, I am not sure you are ready for graduate school. Both your latest post and the one above it convey an undergraduate mentality and an immaturity you should work through before proceeding with a graduate degree. 

To answer your question about the SOP, if you are applying for a degree in physics, you'll need to explain why you are interested in it and how you are prepared for it, given that your education and work experience are in another field. This doesn't mean that you have to tell the whole story of everything else you tried and your disappointments (you really shouldn't do that!) but you need to explain to the admissions committee how you know that physics is really what you want to do and you need to convince them that you are ready for the degree both academically and emotionally, and that you'll be able to follow through and succeed. Someone who keeps changing their interests and can't keep an RAship for even three months would raise red flags, so you need to give this some very careful thought and have a compelling case for why someone should take a risk and accept you. 

[inertialdummy]

Thank you very much for your answer. I guess it does look like what I am afraid it would look like to a total outsider. I felt like I must make it clear that I am not in US nor in EU, so the system is very different here in terms of undergraduate research. It was not an RAship by no means. Both were voluntary, and PI accepted you if he likes so. In both cases PIs were aware of my situation beforehand yet accepted me, so I felt offended because the things I honestly talked openly beforehand became the deal breaker.  And I did get advise from various people before making my decisions. In the later case everybody advised me to leave, including 2 phd friends from eth and boston if that makes any difference for you. And I am in no financial position to leave the job, i had to take 1 course to graduate and rest was to be given to lab. Comparing it to other friend who is employed full time and taking 4 courses now I think I was doing good. I got offended the most since PI accepted other case with totally open arms, which still surprises a lot of people. Other friend, appearently, is not working in the lab since there is no time for it, nor dismissed altogether. I am not convinced that this is the way to do research. It is a full time job, that you should plan and work dedicately. So, well maybe I am having misconception about this whole graduate school thing or it is just local culture. Many friends abroad claim that I would be a precious thing if I was in their lab, but maybe they are just trying to make me feel ok. Anyway, thanks again. ?

[GradSchoolTruther]

It doesn't matter if you were a volunteer. It doesn't matter if you have to work to support yourself. It doesn't matter what others are doing or what they told you. What matters is you need to step up and be a productive member of a team and not quit. You need to take responsibility for your own life.

[inertialdummy]

Thank you for your response. Although I disagree with you, I appreciate you take time to respond.