Flunked out first year undergrad? Optional essay??

[RoseThrn82]

Hi everyone,

First let me say that this is my first post and I am already hooked to this forum. I've been obsessing over the details of applying to grad school and it's nice to converse with others going through the same process. I'm hoping some of you can give me insight into my application concerns. Okay here it goes...

I originally went to college fresh out of H.S. at age 17, I did terribly. I literally, and I do mean literally flunked out of every class except one which I just loved for some reason. I had really bad family issues and became very depressed (very personal things). Things I really would NOT like to divulge in my applications. I returned to school as an adult age 23 for undergrad and did fine there 3.7gpa, VA Tech. I've also taken some general business graduate level courses that my employer has paid for which were really to help supplement my job duties (18 credits 3.83 GPA). So flash forward to now, I'm ready to apply for admissions into an actual grad school program. My question is this: Have any of you ever been in this type of situation? Or if not, do you think I should address this in an optional essay? Do you think that this would be required or would it be looked down upon if I do not address these bad grades from over 10 years ago? Also, in the midst of those years in which I took the break from school (while working full time all the while), I pretty much discovered my passion which has led me to my current goals. When I returned to school at 23 I had a very clear focus on what it was that I wanted to do. While at 17 I was completely lost to be quite honest. So the other option is to talk about that I guess?

Thank you for any and all input that you all provide.

[eucalyptus]

Take a look at the SOP coyabean posted on her gradcafe blog - I believe she had a somewhat similar situation and worked it into her SOP quite nicely. That might give you some ideas on how to address this.

[modernity]

I also started school when I was 17, and I struggled because I was maintaining a very heavy work schedule in addition to school. So my circumstances are a little different, although I am sure my age had something to do with it as well! I acknowledged my poor grades in in my SOP last year. Needless to say (given that I am here again this year) I did not get in anywhere, and looking back on my SOP from last year I think I ruined it by being apologetic/explaining grades. I think if anything, it turned attention to it, that probably would have otherwise been overlooked due to my performance since that initial year. So this year, I will not be addressing it in my SOP. For a few reasons - my explanation is not all that unique (lots of kids had to work through college, struggled to acclimate themselves/mature, etc. this isn't really a traumatic experience like those I've heard where individuals have been physically assaulted or hospitalized for a serious illness), the poor grades are in classes unrelated to my major, my grades since that year are proof in and of themselves of my maturity, and finally I feel like it disturbs an essay which should be highlighting the positives about me.

However, I think a few things could change whether or not you should: if a professor of yours tells you to (they know your background, and they may know people on the admissions committees for where you are applying and will therefore know if it's appropriate), if the grades were relative to your major, or if you have a unique explanation for why it happened that goes beyond the bounds "I was just young and immature".

As always YMMV.

Edited December 11, 2009 by modernity

[repatriate]

Hi everyone,

First let me say that this is my first post and I am already hooked to this forum. I've been obsessing over the details of applying to grad school and it's nice to converse with others going through the same process. I'm hoping some of you can give me insight into my application concerns. Okay here it goes...

I originally went to college fresh out of H.S. at age 17, I did terribly. I literally, and I do mean literally flunked out of every class except one which I just loved for some reason. I had really bad family issues and became very depressed (very personal things). Things I really would NOT like to divulge in my applications. I returned to school as an adult age 23 for undergrad and did fine there 3.7gpa, VA Tech. I've also taken some general business graduate level courses that my employer has paid for which were really to help supplement my job duties (18 credits 3.83 GPA). So flash forward to now, I'm ready to apply for admissions into an actual grad school program. My question is this: Have any of you ever been in this type of situation? Or if not, do you think I should address this in an optional essay? Do you think that this would be required or would it be looked down upon if I do not address these bad grades from over 10 years ago? Also, in the midst of those years in which I took the break from school (while working full time all the while), I pretty much discovered my passion which has led me to my current goals. When I returned to school at 23 I had a very clear focus on what it was that I wanted to do. While at 17 I was completely lost to be quite honest. So the other option is to talk about that I guess?

Thank you for any and all input that you all provide.

If you do write about it, don't dwell on creating excuses. Instead, acknowledge it and then create a compelling argument for why this blemish is not an indication of your true academic abilities and potential, which are reflected in your most recent grades and experiences.

[Hamz]

Take a look at the SOP coyabean posted on her gradcafe blog - I believe she had a somewhat similar situation and worked it into her SOP quite nicely. That might give you some ideas on how to address this.

I can't seem to find her post on this; I was interested in reading. Maybe she took it down?

[NeuroNerd86]

It's interesting because I had to deal with similar situation back in the day. I got transferred to a major American university after being in the US for a year and had a hard time dealing with class/testing format compared to what I was used to for years in my homeland. Plus, I had some family issues. All in all, I ended up getting no-so stellar grades and overall undergrad GPA compared to what I had back home in the university. I dedicated a short paragraph addressing the issue in my SOP and tried to put a positive spin on it - how I was determined to stay in academic research, took time off to do lab work extensively, improved my performance and blah blah blah. One of my proofreaders said it wasn't necessary, but the rest agreed that I should leave the paragraph in. I ended up leaving it in my final SOP, now we'll see what happens... ::sigh::.

[UnlikelyGrad]

Been there, done there, got the T-shirt. Though I was 16, not 17, and didn't fail quite as many courses as you. (But enough that I left the school in the middle of the school term, because it was clear that if I stuck around until grades came in they would kick me out.)

I didn't address it at all. Instead, I focused my SoP on the positives: what I'd done with my life that was GOOD. If people wanted to know about why I'd totally screwed up, they asked--and I told them. Look. I was stupid. Aren't we all stupid at 16?

I got into 4 out of 9 schools, so I guess at least some people were willing to look past it.

[LifeIsGood]

Similar situation. I left it out of my SOP, but one of my applications required an explanation of any academic sanctions in a separate essay. I explained what happened and, briefly and unemotionally, why, then then spent the rest of the essay explaining what I'd learned from the experience and how I'd since turned things around.

[coyabean]

Ok wow.

Thanks for the citation guys.

I did take my SOP down after working through it. I didn't feel like posting each subsequent draft and my OCD wouldn't let me leave an imperfect product out there for the world to see.

I'll PM the OP.

However, let me just say that it worked for me to address because it, honestly, informs my research. If it did not I would probably have chosen to go unlikelygrad's route.

[RoseThrn82]

Thanks to everyone who replied to me here! Everyone put a different view on it that I hadn't originally thought of. If I do decide to address it, it will be brief and I will turn it into a positive. Though I am not sure that I am going to address it at all. I have so much education/classes training from different schools that have been employee sponsored that I just feel that anyone should be able to look at the transcript record and see that the last 4 schools I attended had all 3.7 or above grades. I don't know. coyabean I'm going to read your pm and respond to you as well. Thanks to everyone for your time.

[asha]

I did the same thing at 18 (at Va Tech ha) and then went back at 30 to a different school. I asked all the schools I am applying to and none of them even want the transcript, so I am not going to mention it. I am just happy that I don't have to pay for another set of transcripts at this point.

[Pamphilia]

I did the same thing at 18 (at Va Tech ha) and then went back at 30 to a different school. I asked all the schools I am applying to and none of them even want the transcript, so I am not going to mention it. I am just happy that I don't have to pay for another set of transcripts at this point.

Um, just curious, but why the "ha" for Tech?

[asha]

Um, just curious, but why the "ha" for Tech?

because the original poster did the opposite... he/she went BACK to va tech, I failed out of va tech and went back elsewhere.

[Pamphilia]

because the original poster did the opposite... he/she went BACK to va tech, I failed out of va tech and went back elsewhere.

Aha! My reading comprehension skills = bad.

[peppermint.beatnik]

I agree with Unlikely Grad. I don't think it's worth mentioning.

I was on academic probation after my first year too (extenuating circumstances). I spent 5.5 years in undergrad making-up for it. Then I did an MA.

I can't imagine them focusing on something that happened so long ago.

[NeuroNerd86]

coyabean posted a quote from the admissions committee from some school somewhere on forum that they (at least in that school) like it when you acknowledge your shortcomings and then move on.

[stilsons]

I did the same thing at 18 (at Va Tech ha) and then went back at 30 to a different school. I asked all the schools I am applying to and none of them even want the transcript, so I am not going to mention it. I am just happy that I don't have to pay for another set of transcripts at this point.

I wish I had your luxury. Both the University of California and the California State University say that they require ALL college-level transcripts, even ones from the 1980s which I didn't do well in. After 1993, I went to a different university for my Bachelor's and did a lot better.

My question is this: has anyone been disciplined for not including all transcripts in an application? If so, what happened? How would the Admissions Committee find out if you went to another college 20 years ago?

I live in an area that has 15 different community colleges within driving distance, and I've been to all of them at one time or another.

Thank you.

[RoseThrn82]

Similar situation. I left it out of my SOP, but one of my applications required an explanation of any academic sanctions in a separate essay. I explained what happened and, briefly and unemotionally, why, then then spent the rest of the essay explaining what I'd learned from the experience and how I'd since turned things around.

Thanks for all of the replies on this. I pretty much did what LifeIsGood did. I ended up leaving it out of my SOP. For the two programs that required an explanation in an optional essay, I did include it there.

We will see what happens!

[RoseThrn82]

I wish I had your luxury. Both the University of California and the California State University say that they require ALL college-level transcripts, even ones from the 1980s which I didn't do well in. After 1993, I went to a different university for my Bachelor's and did a lot better.

My question is this: has anyone been disciplined for not including all transcripts in an application? If so, what happened? How would the Admissions Committee find out if you went to another college 20 years ago?

I live in an area that has 15 different community colleges within driving distance, and I've been to all of them at one time or another.

Thank you.

I'm not sure how they would know, unless your transcripts from other schools thereafter list transfer credits. In that case, the transcript usually list where the credit(s) was transferred from. Also, I think schools get a copy of your federal financial aid record. I could be wrong, but I think the record shows the schools that you have received financial aid at. So if this applies then I guess they could know that way.

I think its worth it to just send all transcripts though.

[RoseThrn82]

I wanted to update this thread for others next year or whenever who maybe in the same situation. Well, I wrote my SOP without mentioning the first college bad grades or the circumstances. I made my SOP be really where adcom's could get to know who I was now, positive things, etc... I wrote an optional essay addressing my first year grades. It was really short and got to the point, I addressed the bad grades, expressed that I wouldn't make any excuses for them, and moved on to positive things. I stated that I knew ad coms wanted all transcripts to discover any academic trends and that they would notice an immediate trend where I maintained a 3.5 and above at all schools attended since then, etc.. etc.. I also stated that although not good my first year of college helped to shape and mold who I am today, by teaching me valuable life lessons...

Well, it seemed to have worked for me, so maybe it will work for someone else in the future!