Don't take on debt

[SocratesTheMediocre]

I can only speak for my experience, but word of advice:

> went to a top school

> "a graduate degree from Princeton/Yale, what could go wrong."

> more than half the class can't get jobs in the field.

 > reminds me of everything I read about law school, turns out the stats are quite similar (and similarly doctored)

> realize half the class is just there to fund the program

> they actually paid students to post on these forums and help recruit

 

Also, everything you learn you could teach to yourself with an internet connection and a decent amount of drive. 

 

Save your money if you don't get a good offer. I wish I had. 

 

[goforthegold]

7 minutes ago, SocratesTheMediocre said:

 

> they actually paid students to post on these forums and help recruit

 

 

Really? That's upsetting.

[irapplicant1776]

Ha, it's appropriate that I'm reading your post right after I filled out SAIS's survey on why I declined. 

[TemujinAmbition]

Princeton Wilson has explicit policy of funding students and not incurring debt for students. You should not have debt from Princeton. I've also heard that it is possible to incur little debt at Yale given small size of program. Did you actually attend either of the specific institutions you referenced, or were you just using them to refer to elite universities in general?

[MD guy]

6 hours ago, TemujinAmbition said:

Princeton Wilson has explicit policy of funding students and not incurring debt for students. You should not have debt from Princeton. I've also heard that it is possible to incur little debt at Yale given small size of program. Did you actually attend either of the specific institutions you referenced, or were you just using them to refer to elite universities in general?

Yeah lmao terrible terrible two schools to use as examples...in quotations nonetheless. He's definitely speaking generally

On May 24, 2016 at 0:04 AM, SocratesTheMediocre said:

Also, everything you learn you could teach to yourself with an internet connection and a decent amount of drive. 

Right...uh tell that to an employer. "Hey I learned micro analysis (believable) and nonprofit management (not so believable) by reading Quora!" Look at the job market. Everybody and their uncle wants a graduate degree with 5 years of experience (exaggeration). BA-only has no mobility in many of the fields MPP/MPA candidates are interested in. Sad times but true.

That being said, yes. Do not be a fool who thinks >100k for an MPP is "worth it." This ain't a top-tier MBA or JD or MD. It's a tough road out there

Edited May 25, 2016 by MD guy

[MaxwellAlum]

On 5/24/2016 at 0:04 AM, SocratesTheMediocre said:

> more than half the class can't get jobs in the field.

This was definitely not my experience at Maxwell, and friends with degrees from HKS and Fletcher don't seem to have had this issue.  Certainly some people found jobs in other fields (a surprising number of folks who had an international focus in grad school ended up in local government), but it's hard to say how much of that is because they couldn't find a job in IR vs they found a better offer elsewhere.  And some people have taken time to find the right position.  I do not think MPP/IR grads face the same issues that law school grads do.  But I would also not recommend taking on law school debt for an MPP/IR degree.

[Kaneisha]

Socrates, I feel your pain. While my experience doesn't exactly match yours, I am six years out of school, making a good living as an education entrepreneur, but still feeling very weighed down by the amount of student loan debt I have (about $70,000 left at this point). I went to HBS basically tuition-free because they saw how little income I'd had combined with my existing debt, so most of my $140k in student loan debt that I graduated with was from policy school and three years of living expenses (which I could have done a much better job of minimizing). I want to concur that I do not think it is wise to go into high levels of debt for a policy degree. For even the most elite school of your wildest dreams (whatever that is for you), I think something around $40,000 - $50,000 is the absolute max you should take on for the entire degree. I would encourage anyone who is feeling dismayed at having gone to policy school or any other graduate degree to challenge yourself to make the very most of your school's career services office. I know it can be frustrating to try and use a few resources and feel like they aren't working for you, but your tuition paid for your access to those resources as an alum, and you'd be surprised how open the professionals in those offices are to getting whatever resources they are lacking in place to make sure they are serving their alumni well. After all, if alumni don't go out and do well in their careers and feel great about their experience, they won't give back to the school or help encourage others to go. All that is to say, please don't give up on your school even if you're feeling disillusioned, angry, or in despair. You did the hard work to earn the degree. Do what it takes to make the degree work for you--to make the time, money, and effort you spent worth it.

[aqua_bro]

@Kaneisha Wow that's... just incredibly disheartening to hear from an HBS grad.

Would you even recommend going to Kennedy at all? It almost sounds like you would have been better served by attending HBS only.

 

@SocratesTheMediocre Can you please name which program you attended? I'm staring down an acceptance letter to Fletcher and now I'm not so sure this is the right career move. They've given me aid, I probably wouldn't crack $100k all in... but it's still a considerable chunk of change.

 

 

[kb6]

I, too, am interested in where the OP attended grad school. As I've mentioned in other threads, I graduated from SAIS a year ago and the vast majority of my friends have full-time jobs in-field. They're not all perfect matches, but they're reasonable fits that will hopefully serve as stepping stones to something better. Some non-US citizen friends have struggled to find employers willing to sponsor them for visas, but most people in that category have gone into multi-laterals (with the World Bank being the top destination by far) or found jobs back home. 

What I will say is that I agree with the sentiment about debt. Even my friends with great jobs are struggling massively if they took the whole thing out in loans. Adulthood is basically deferred until they find a significant other who can bankroll them, or until they miraculously become a superstar like SAIS alum Wolf Blitzer -- definitely not the likely career outcome for most IR grads, and besides, I doubt Wolfie took out 140k in loans to get his degree back in the day.  

And the other disheartening aspect of taking out mega loans is that a good chunk of students at elite grad schools will have mommy and daddy footing the whole bill, and so you will have to watch as they merrily accept the sub-50k/year development job while living on their own in a luxury building near 14th and U. Meanwhile you're on the bus from your group house in Petworth, vowing to spend less money next month at the local watering whole where you go drown your sorrows with your other friends who complain about loans.

 

 

 

 

[chocolatecheesecake]

On 5/24/2016 at 0:12 AM, goforthegold said:

Really? That's upsetting.

Many schools pay current students to be admissions ambassadors as a part-time job. These students are the ones responsible for giving you tours when you visit, sitting down to have conversations, etc. Some of them are also tasked with social media outreach and places like Gradcafe. This all seems pretty normal and above-board to me.

I also don't find it upsetting because I haven't read any serious misleading or overly optimistic posts on here, because these students aren't being paid to say things they don't mean - they're being paid to spend time on the forum and make sure that people who have questions have somewhere to turn to. (Now I feel like I have to state that for the record, I was never one of those folks. =D)

[Saturnalia]

18 hours ago, kb6 said:

I, too, am interested in where the OP attended grad school. As I've mentioned in other threads, I graduated from SAIS a year ago and the vast majority of my friends have full-time jobs in-field. They're not all perfect matches, but they're reasonable fits that will hopefully serve as stepping stones to something better. Some non-US citizen friends have struggled to find employers willing to sponsor them for visas, but most people in that category have gone into multi-laterals (with the World Bank being the top destination by far) or found jobs back home. 

What I will say is that I agree with the sentiment about debt. Even my friends with great jobs are struggling massively if they took the whole thing out in loans. Adulthood is basically deferred until they find a significant other who can bankroll them, or until they miraculously become a superstar like SAIS alum Wolf Blitzer -- definitely not the likely career outcome for most IR grads, and besides, I doubt Wolfie took out 140k in loans to get his degree back in the day.  

And the other disheartening aspect of taking out mega loans is that a good chunk of students at elite grad schools will have mommy and daddy footing the whole bill, and so you will have to watch as they merrily accept the sub-50k/year development job while living on their own in a luxury building near 14th and U. Meanwhile you're on the bus from your group house in Petworth, vowing to spend less money next month at the local watering whole where you go drown your sorrows with your other friends who complain about loans.

 

 

 

 

Yikes. That is bleak. So I'm actually a matriculating SAIS student, and I'll probably need to take out around 50-55k total for SAIS, but I also have about 15k in undergrad subsidized stafford loans. Obviously that's a lot less than 140k, but would you say that's a reasonable amount of debt? Or would that also be insane? I'm playing with the idea of a dual-degree (JD), and if I went that route, all these debt calculations would fly out the window, but I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.

Piggy-backing on that, I'm taking a couple courses at SAIS over the summer and would be able to take a reduced course-load in the fall (admissions has told me that as long as I take 3 courses, I can retain my full-time status). My job isn't too demanding and would allow me flex hours. Given SAIS's workload, would working and studying be feasible for the fall semester? Does anyone do this or would it be hell?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Saturnalia

[MD guy]

15 hours ago, Saturnalia said:

Yikes. That is bleak. So I'm actually a matriculating SAIS student, and I'll probably need to take out around 50-55k total for SAIS, but I also have about 15k in undergrad subsidized stafford loans. Obviously that's a lot less than 140k, but would you say that's a reasonable amount of debt? Or would that also be insane? I'm playing with the idea of a dual-degree (JD), and if I went that route, all these debt calculations would fly out the window, but I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.

Piggy-backing on that, I'm taking a couple courses at SAIS over the summer and would be able to take a reduced course-load in the fall (admissions has told me that as long as I take 3 courses, I can retain my full-time status). My job isn't too demanding and would allow me flex hours. Given SAIS's workload, would working and studying be feasible for the fall semester? Does anyone do this or would it be hell?

Ditch the JD. Why do you want it? See the other thread in the forum about why the JD is a bad fit for most people interested in policy. The JD would bring your very manageable debt load and balloon it to ridiculousness, forcing you to explore the private biglaw sector, which most MPP-oriented people would not like.

I would also not advocate working part-time the first semester. There's a transition time wherever you go, and you want to make friends the first semester anyway. Starting with the spring you'll have a much better idea how well you can handle things. But obviously deferring to the SAIS ppl here

[MaxwellAlum]

On 5/27/2016 at 10:06 AM, Saturnalia said:

Yikes. That is bleak. So I'm actually a matriculating SAIS student, and I'll probably need to take out around 50-55k total for SAIS, but I also have about 15k in undergrad subsidized stafford loans. Obviously that's a lot less than 140k, but would you say that's a reasonable amount of debt? Or would that also be insane? I'm playing with the idea of a dual-degree (JD), and if I went that route, all these debt calculations would fly out the window, but I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.

Piggy-backing on that, I'm taking a couple courses at SAIS over the summer and would be able to take a reduced course-load in the fall (admissions has told me that as long as I take 3 courses, I can retain my full-time status). My job isn't too demanding and would allow me flex hours. Given SAIS's workload, would working and studying be feasible for the fall semester? Does anyone do this or would it be hell?

In terms of the amount of debt, $65k is a bit on the high side.  It will accrue over $300 in interest every month.  A standard payment on a ten-year payment plan is over $700, which is a pretty big chunk out of a $50-$60k salary, especially after taxes, healthcare, retirement savings, etc.    Alternatively, assuming an income of $50k (AGI), an income-based payment will be around $270.  One option is to stay on income-based repayment until your income grows enough/you get loan forgiveness in 10 or 25 years.  Although there are no guarantees that loan forgiveness will occur, I actually don't think this is a terrible idea if you already have the debt, since any money you save on loan payments you can put in a retirement fund, while money you throw into your loans is gone even if you get forgiveness eventually.  But do watch out for a ballooning balance if your payments don't even cover the accruing interest, and be prepared for the anxiety of watching Congress consider changes to forgiveness programs.

Another option, if you are relatively young/have few financial responsibilities, is to focus your disposable income on paying off your loans as fast as possible after you get out of grad school.  That will likely entail some combination of living with roommates, no extra retirement contributions, no savings for a house downpayment, etc.   It is possible to lower that balance significantly within a couple of years and make it manageable.  It just really depends on where you are in life and what your financial priorities are.

[Saturnalia]

On 5/28/2016 at 1:14 AM, MD guy said:

Ditch the JD. Why do you want it? See the other thread in the forum about why the JD is a bad fit for most people interested in policy. The JD would bring your very manageable debt load and balloon it to ridiculousness, forcing you to explore the private biglaw sector, which most MPP-oriented people would not like.

I would also not advocate working part-time the first semester. There's a transition time wherever you go, and you want to make friends the first semester anyway. Starting with the spring you'll have a much better idea how well you can handle things. But obviously deferring to the SAIS ppl here

I'm considering the JD because I'm interested in International Arbitration. I currently work at a top-10 law firm and am not opposed to working in big law. 

As for working part-time, I would be on both a reduced course load and a reduced work schedule, so I am curious to see whether it's something I'd be able to manage. I'm working and taking a course right now, for instance, and find it to be completely manageable, though I'm hesitant to see what adding two more on top of it would do to things. 

[MD guy]

7 hours ago, Saturnalia said:

I'm considering the JD because I'm interested in International Arbitration. I currently work at a top-10 law firm and am not opposed to working in big law. 

As for working part-time, I would be on both a reduced course load and a reduced work schedule, so I am curious to see whether it's something I'd be able to manage. I'm working and taking a course right now, for instance, and find it to be completely manageable, though I'm hesitant to see what adding two more on top of it would do to things. 

Why are you in SAIS then? If you want to do big arbitration work, the answer is to be an attorney...I'm not sure I see the value that SAIS would really give you. But then again I don't know too much about SAIS in particular. Just doesn't seem like MPP-type gives the right sorts of skills.

[kb6]

On 5/27/2016 at 10:06 AM, Saturnalia said:

Yikes. That is bleak. So I'm actually a matriculating SAIS student, and I'll probably need to take out around 50-55k total for SAIS, but I also have about 15k in undergrad subsidized stafford loans. Obviously that's a lot less than 140k, but would you say that's a reasonable amount of debt? Or would that also be insane? I'm playing with the idea of a dual-degree (JD), and if I went that route, all these debt calculations would fly out the window, but I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.

Piggy-backing on that, I'm taking a couple courses at SAIS over the summer and would be able to take a reduced course-load in the fall (admissions has told me that as long as I take 3 courses, I can retain my full-time status). My job isn't too demanding and would allow me flex hours. Given SAIS's workload, would working and studying be feasible for the fall semester? Does anyone do this or would it be hell?

 

For the first semester, I personally would not recommend doing anything approaching full-time work. Even if your job's hours are reduced, if the duties are taxing/time-consuming it's gonna be tough. I worked part-time for all of SAIS (including first semester), but they were the kinds of student-y jobs where you could sit there and do your homework during down times, and where you could ask for a week off around midterms. One semester I did about 25hrs/week combined internship and job and it was hell (this was second year). But if you have the kind of job where you might have a free two hours in the afternoon to do some readings...or even space out and relax...that's a different ballgame.

Also, people tend to take their quant courses early to use as pre-reqs for more interesting courses. If you were an undergrad econ major then perhaps this will be no big whoop, but many (myself included) found them challenging and will want to have the time to do study groups, go to office hours/TA sessions, etc.

Also, I will echo the "why JD/MAIR combo" comments. It would be one thing if you have money to burn and just wanted the education, but if this involves loans I would say give up the IR degree if what you want is to become a lawyer, and take a few IR-focused electives. Or vice versa. I don't know anyone who did the combined JD (there were a number of joint MBAs/MPHs though), but I would recommend talking to someone who did that combo to get a sense of their experiences.

In terms of debt - my total is around where you'd be without the undergrad loans, but I still find it a little burdensome. Not in an existential "why did I make all the decisions that have led me to this point" kind of way, but enough that I think about it a fair amount (as is evidenced by the fact that I'm commenting on gradcafe a year after graduation!). It makes what were once considered basic features of middle class+ adulthood - being able to afford a studio, saving up for a downpayment, saving up for a *real* vacation - a bit more challenging. I also have no faith whatsoever in any of the income-based repayment programs and am not participating, so whatever your attitude is towards those could make a difference.

 

[Saturnalia]

17 hours ago, MD guy said:

Why are you in SAIS then? If you want to do big arbitration work, the answer is to be an attorney...I'm not sure I see the value that SAIS would really give you. But then again I don't know too much about SAIS in particular. Just doesn't seem like MPP-type gives the right sorts of skills.

A fair number of attorneys here have done dual degrees, and its made it much easier for them to transfer over to the policy realm as their interests change, or they want a less demanding career, etc. A lot of the lawyers in the practice group here will come from or go to the state department, or in some cases, the Hague, World Bank/ICSID, WTO, etc. The vast majority of the cases we do are heavily intertwined with both the international legal system and state-entities and multilateral organizations like the World Bank and WTO, and a dual degree would give me more flexibility to cross between the two. I wouldn't pursue the dual-degree at all unless I got into a high enough ranked program that would allow me to work on cases at that high of a level.

 

14 hours ago, kb6 said:

 

For the first semester, I personally would not recommend doing anything approaching full-time work. Even if your job's hours are reduced, if the duties are taxing/time-consuming it's gonna be tough. I worked part-time for all of SAIS (including first semester), but they were the kinds of student-y jobs where you could sit there and do your homework during down times, and where you could ask for a week off around midterms. One semester I did about 25hrs/week combined internship and job and it was hell (this was second year). But if you have the kind of job where you might have a free two hours in the afternoon to do some readings...or even space out and relax...that's a different ballgame.

Also, people tend to take their quant courses early to use as pre-reqs for more interesting courses. If you were an undergrad econ major then perhaps this will be no big whoop, but many (myself included) found them challenging and will want to have the time to do study groups, go to office hours/TA sessions, etc.

Also, I will echo the "why JD/MAIR combo" comments. It would be one thing if you have money to burn and just wanted the education, but if this involves loans I would say give up the IR degree if what you want is to become a lawyer, and take a few IR-focused electives. Or vice versa. I don't know anyone who did the combined JD (there were a number of joint MBAs/MPHs though), but I would recommend talking to someone who did that combo to get a sense of their experiences.

In terms of debt - my total is around where you'd be without the undergrad loans, but I still find it a little burdensome. Not in an existential "why did I make all the decisions that have led me to this point" kind of way, but enough that I think about it a fair amount (as is evidenced by the fact that I'm commenting on gradcafe a year after graduation!). It makes what were once considered basic features of middle class+ adulthood - being able to afford a studio, saving up for a downpayment, saving up for a *real* vacation - a bit more challenging. I also have no faith whatsoever in any of the income-based repayment programs and am not participating, so whatever your attitude is towards those could make a difference.

 

I more or less suspected that would be the consensus on working while in school, even with a reduced course load. I guess I'll have to follow up with my boss. When hearings aren't happening, I'll often have 3 or more hours a day with nothing to do. If we have hearings scheduled it'll be pretty non-stop, but if we have nothing big coming up through year end, I'll potentially give it a shot.

I studied physics in undergrad, so I'm pretty confident in my quant/math skills. I've only taken basic econ courses, but we'll see how I fare in macro during SAIS's summer session, I guess. 

In terms of the undergrad loans though, they're due to be paid off in full 3 years after I'd graduate SAIS, and I'm young, so I'm not as worried about the undergrad balance, especially given the fact that they're all subsidized and at a very low interest rate, but it's good to get additional insight on what life would look like with that kind of debt burden.

As a sidenote, how does SAIS handle second year funding?

 

[MD guy]

2 hours ago, Saturnalia said:

A fair number of attorneys here have done dual degrees, and its made it much easier for them to transfer over to the policy realm as their interests change, or they want a less demanding career, etc. A lot of the lawyers in the practice group here will come from or go to the state department, or in some cases, the Hague, World Bank/ICSID, WTO, etc. The vast majority of the cases we do are heavily intertwined with both the international legal system and state-entities and multilateral organizations like the World Bank and WTO, and a dual degree would give me more flexibility to cross between the two. I wouldn't pursue the dual-degree at all unless I got into a high enough ranked program that would allow me to work on cases at that high of a level.

 

-shrug- Alright then. My suspicion is still that the attorneys in question could've done without the IR degree. It seems they are riding off of their high-powered attorney positions to get other gigs. Even though MPA folks know that the JD is not a 1-for-1 replacement, many organizations think a lawyer with experience can more than substitute for a policy graduate. Instead of splurging money on SAIS, I would just focus on doing LSAT to get into a T6 law school. You could do all the wonderfully fun and prestigious IR stuff from there just as well.

[Saturnalia]

23 minutes ago, MD guy said:

-shrug- Alright then. My suspicion is still that the attorneys in question could've done without the IR degree. It seems they are riding off of their high-powered attorney positions to get other gigs. Even though MPA folks know that the JD is not a 1-for-1 replacement, many organizations think a lawyer with experience can more than substitute for a policy graduate. Instead of splurging money on SAIS, I would just focus on doing LSAT to get into a T6 law school. You could do all the wonderfully fun and prestigious IR stuff from there just as well.

Not to stray too far from the initial thread's topic, but the head of the IA group actually cautioned me against this, because she feels getting a JD locks you into a certain profession, and for associates under her that have looked to move away from big law, it has been more difficult and taken more steps/jobs to move over to where they ultimately wanted to end up. Granted, more difficult doesn't at all mean impossible, just that they faced more hurdles in transitioning to policy roles versus legal roles in policy focused organizations. Ultimately, I don't think a JD necessarily prepares you for IR, just as an MA wouldn't prepare you for things in the legal profession, and it wouldn't be advisable to pursue a JD if one's main interest going into it are solely things of an international scope. International Arbitration is a very niche field even within the legal profession, and can be difficult to break into, which is why people will sometimes pursue an MA, or more admittedly more commonly, an LLM either during, or after completion of the JD.

But to return to the thread's original topic of debt, were I to attend a T14 law school, that would completely change my debt tolerance regardless, because my expected salary post graduation would change. 

[MD guy]

2 hours ago, Saturnalia said:

Not to stray too far from the initial thread's topic, but the head of the IA group actually cautioned me against this, because she feels getting a JD locks you into a certain profession, and for associates under her that have looked to move away from big law, it has been more difficult and taken more steps/jobs to move over to where they ultimately wanted to end up. Granted, more difficult doesn't at all mean impossible, just that they faced more hurdles in transitioning to policy roles versus legal roles in policy focused organizations. Ultimately, I don't think a JD necessarily prepares you for IR, just as an MA wouldn't prepare you for things in the legal profession, and it wouldn't be advisable to pursue a JD if one's main interest going into it are solely things of an international scope. International Arbitration is a very niche field even within the legal profession, and can be difficult to break into, which is why people will sometimes pursue an MA, or more admittedly more commonly, an LLM either during, or after completion of the JD.

But to return to the thread's original topic of debt, were I to attend a T14 law school, that would completely change my debt tolerance regardless, because my expected salary post graduation would change. 

I've heard that as well. With this in mind, I think you just need to decide what it is you want to do. It sounds like you are willing to take on debt to do a dual degree where one of the degrees would likely prove less useful throughout your entire career. It's fine to have a JD, do biglaw and then move out of it as it's a common path, but planning on doing law for a couple years and then leaving doesn't justify the time or money spent at any law school. It's 3 years of your life, not anything to kid about.

But then again I don't know anything about int'l arbitration. Just doesn't seem like it's reasonable to expect people with dual degrees (LLM aside). As a confirmed prospective dual degree applicant, I've found that those with double degrees tend to tell you it's necessary; it's hard to go to sleep knowing you wasted your life. It's the opinions of people who are working in your desired field/positions who do not possess multiple degrees who are more likely do give you better advice IMO.

And yeah with a good JD your debt tolerance changes but there's still a cap...biglaw is 160k, 100k take home first year and unless you are at a T6, the chances at biglaw can be quite low. In particular, Georgetown is a T14 but blows at biglaw placement. If you want biglaw you really need to focus on the T6. Hope your GPA is up to snuff

Edited June 2, 2016 by MD guy

[kb6]

19 hours ago, Saturnalia said:

A fair number of attorneys here have done dual degrees, and its made it much easier for them to transfer over to the policy realm as their interests change, or they want a less demanding career, etc. A lot of the lawyers in the practice group here will come from or go to the state department, or in some cases, the Hague, World Bank/ICSID, WTO, etc. The vast majority of the cases we do are heavily intertwined with both the international legal system and state-entities and multilateral organizations like the World Bank and WTO, and a dual degree would give me more flexibility to cross between the two. I wouldn't pursue the dual-degree at all unless I got into a high enough ranked program that would allow me to work on cases at that high of a level.

 

I more or less suspected that would be the consensus on working while in school, even with a reduced course load. I guess I'll have to follow up with my boss. When hearings aren't happening, I'll often have 3 or more hours a day with nothing to do. If we have hearings scheduled it'll be pretty non-stop, but if we have nothing big coming up through year end, I'll potentially give it a shot.

I studied physics in undergrad, so I'm pretty confident in my quant/math skills. I've only taken basic econ courses, but we'll see how I fare in macro during SAIS's summer session, I guess. 

In terms of the undergrad loans though, they're due to be paid off in full 3 years after I'd graduate SAIS, and I'm young, so I'm not as worried about the undergrad balance, especially given the fact that they're all subsidized and at a very low interest rate, but it's good to get additional insight on what life would look like with that kind of debt burden.

As a sidenote, how does SAIS handle second year funding?

 

Re: second-year funding...

I was lucky to get funding in the first year that carried over, but for those who didn't, I believe there was a GPA cut-off to be considered for second-year funding. You could call the financial aid office to find out what it has been in recent years. There are also various scholarships and fellowships you can apply for. But I wouldn't base any financing decisions on second-year funding because my impression is that few people get it. 

[Kaneisha]

@aqua_bro eh...I can't really blame anyone but myself (and perhaps the American education system as a whole). I was the one who signed on the dotted line as a clueless 23-year-old for that much student loan debt. Sometimes, I wonder how much better my finances and life in general might be without all this debt, but I also wonder if I was just vulnerable and would have gotten myself wrapped up in some other kind of financial ruin (e.g. buying a big house I couldn't afford because that's the grownup thing to do). I could have chosen to go to work for a big company after graduation but I chose not to. That would have helped me pay down the debt much more quickly than working for myself. Life is full of tradeoffs. It's important you do your research to understand the obvious and less obvious consequences of those tradeoffs. I recommend HKS to anyone who is clear on why they are going and who can graduate with a reasonable amount of student loan debt, whether it's because they got a scholarship, have a ton of savings, are being supported by family, etc. Stay encouraged but also well researched and cautious!

[TemujinAmbition]

10 hours ago, Kaneisha said:

@aqua_bro eh...I can't really blame anyone but myself (and perhaps the American education system as a whole). I was the one who signed on the dotted line as a clueless 23-year-old for that much student loan debt. Sometimes, I wonder how much better my finances and life in general might be without all this debt, but I also wonder if I was just vulnerable and would have gotten myself wrapped up in some other kind of financial ruin (e.g. buying a big house I couldn't afford because that's the grownup thing to do). I could have chosen to go to work for a big company after graduation but I chose not to. That would have helped me pay down the debt much more quickly than working for myself. Life is full of tradeoffs. It's important you do your research to understand the obvious and less obvious consequences of those tradeoffs. I recommend HKS to anyone who is clear on why they are going and who can graduate with a reasonable amount of student loan debt, whether it's because they got a scholarship, have a ton of savings, are being supported by family, etc. Stay encouraged but also well researched and cautious!

At least you have that HBS degree to fall back on. Can't you fall back on finance or consulting if you were in a money pinch? HBS is like a golden ticket, it's a special luxury to have as back-up that most other non-dual degree policy grads don't have 

[MD guy]

17 hours ago, TemujinAmbition said:

Can't you fall back on finance or consulting if you were in a money pinch?

AFAIK, recruiting and networking for that needs to be done nice and early. It's not like those people will look at any HBS resume that flies their way, no sir. Once you're a couple years out I think many of those doors close, especially if OP has been working in the MPP world. Perhaps senior level policy people can get another in and transition to consulting, but the finance door is a hard one to break open again randomly mid-career.

Edited June 12, 2016 by MD guy

[Derpster0]

Not taking on debt seems like something that is easier said than done. Are assistantships something that we see at the Masters level frequently or no? I'll be putting in some applications either at the end of the year or maybe early 2017. If I can figure out a way to get an MPA with little or no debt then I'd be all for it.