Summer Internship Conflict with Advisor

[Anathem]

I am a first-year PhD student.  Ever since last September or so, I imaged to get in contact with a very well-known scientist who has his own wiki and books and whatnot.  We have been regularly communicating back and forth since then.  Meanwhile, my academic advisor (who is also new) informed me several months ago that she would be totally fine with me doing a summer internship position.  Now, just a few days ago, the scientist informed me that I can work (paid) for this company -- this was very exciting news to me, as this is exactly the type of work I would want to do after I graduate (although it is not really related to the research I do now).

 

I very eagerly tell my advisor the good news... and she says she has made a mistake and that I cannot work over the summer -- instead I must continue with research and work on my proposition.  This is devastating to me because this internship is so important; it's not like I can just "apply" again next year -- it's something that I had to do by keeping in contact with the CEO for several months.  I don't think my advisor understands what this means to me.  Also, until I mentioned the opportunity, she never told me about her new info that she doesn't want me working over the summer.  Hell, she even wrote me a letter of recommendation for a similar company about a month ago.  This whole situation just really aggravates me (although aside from it, my advisor has been great so far).  One of the worst parts of this conflict is that none of my peers seem to understand what this means to me, and the general consensus among them is that if my advisor says "jump" my response should be "how high?"...  (Personally I would drop the PhD altogether in a heartbeat and work for the company at hand if I could, but I don't think that could happen, and it's rare enough for this CEO to let me work under him.)

 

Hopefully this is the right area to ask this.. I do appreciate all your advice.

[angesradieux]

Have you checked the student handbook? There may be a clause in there about not working while completing a PhD. If this is the case, it's possible that your advisor was totally fine with it and didn't realize it was an issue until later on. Perhaps if its an issue with policy, internship and paid work are defined differently, and while an unpaid internship would have been fine, but a paid job is in conflict with a policy outlined in the handbook. I would look around and try to figure out whether this is the case. If it is, maybe sit down with your advisor, talk about it, and see if the two of you can figure out any way to make this work. Would it be permissible if it were unpaid? I know you said it isn't really related to your current research, but could you make a case for its usefulness by saying you'll develop skills there that can carry over into your current research? Maybe it's allowable if you can demonstrate that it will in some way further your ability to do your current research. If the issue is that your advisor changed her mind for some reason, again, the best thing to do might be to try to talk to her about what caused the change of heart. In any case, I think the best thing to do is first to determine whether it's a change of heart on the part of your advisor, or whether she was simply made aware of a policy that she hadn't previously realized was in place, and then see if your advisor is willing to have a conversation about it. It doesn't guarantee it'll work out--if there's some policy in place, it could well be that her hands are tied--but a discussion can't hurt.

[dr. t]

In many universities, you cannot work while receiving a grad stipend. It's quite possible your advisers hands are tied. Figure this out first.

[TakeruK]

Like others said, at most schools, you cannot take other employment while being a full time student. Many schools though will let you take a leave of absence in order to do an internship like the one you want to do. However, most schools will require you get permission from your advisor (and others) before you can do this. 

My advice would be to first look up the school policies and find out what is necessary to take a leave of absence to pursue this internship. Then, seek permission from those you need. Your advisor is likely one of them and you should specifically ask if they will reconsider and approve a leave of absence for you. Tell them why this opportunity is so important to you.

At the same time, you should also confirm whether or not you need to be a PhD student in order to pursue this internship. Some internships are only for students while others are for everyone.

After getting all of this information, if your advisor refuses to let you take a leave of absence (as it is within their right to do so), you have a hard choice to make. You will likely have to choose between staying in your PhD program or quitting and pursuing this industry option instead. This is where it would be important to know ahead of time whether or not you need to be a student to pursue this internship. If you must be a student, then you don't really have a choice at all, unfortunately.

[Anathem]

Well, I'd be lying if I said that these posts brought me any comfort, but I do appreciate the honesty.  Hopefully I can get this sorted right.

I could not find any policies that state I cannot do summer work, so I hope that's a good sign.

Thank you all,

[TakeruK]

2 hours ago, Anathem said:

Well, I'd be lying if I said that these posts brought me any comfort, but I do appreciate the honesty.  Hopefully I can get this sorted right.

I could not find any policies that state I cannot do summer work, so I hope that's a good sign.

Thank you all,

Sorry that these thoughts aren't comforting. And I'm sorry to add another but you need to find a policy that says you can take a leave in order to do summer work. The onus is on you to find an exception that allows summer work. The burden is not on your advisor to prove why they can say no---by default, when you are a student, you aren't allowed to do stuff in conflict with your school/student commitments. The good news is that you don't really need to find a leave policy that is specific to internships, you just need to find one that lets you suspend your studies and allows you to return after your internship. The leave policies can be very general to accommodate many different student needs. Finally, sometimes the Graduate Studies Office at your school can help you figure out how to get your leave approved.

That said, if it's really true that this opportunity will do more for your future career plans than the PhD could, then perhaps pursuing this opportunity is better for you even if you are not able to get a leave granted.

[Anathem]

I understand.. but my frustration lies in that, previously speaking, my advisor had specifically informed me that a summer internship would be fine.  Imagine if you won the lottery and went to redeem your ticket only to find out that it expired 3 days ago and is no longer valid. That is how I feel right now.

 

That said, I guess a learning opportunity I can take away from this is to always look things up myself, for even people in charge are wrong about their won policies sometimes, haha..

[TakeruK]

I'm sorry about the frustration. If it helps, I had something similar happen to me years ago too. Like you, I also came away with the lesson to look up policies myself! I also learned to be flexible and that people can change their minds about things. Nothing is set until it is signed.

I hope you are able to find a way to go on leave from your program to do this internship. I would talk to your advisor more to learn what the issue actually is. When you go on leave, you don't get paid so if they were just worried that you will still cost them money but be away, then maybe a formal leave of absence will solve everything. However, if they don't want you away at all, then I guess that's not going to change.

One more thing you can do: If you know that ultimately, you value the internship more than the PhD, you could first ask for a leave and then if they say no, you could then inform the advisor that you would rather leave the program than miss this internship opportunity and ask if they would reconsider the leave. I'd be sure to ask this in a non-confrontational way and maybe a day or two after their first decision on the leave. Also, I would either do it by email or make it clear that you don't expect an answer right away.

[Anathem]

Looks like my advisor will not budge, and I feel like I can't breathe.  I appreciate all your help.  I hope any new students reading this will know to have things in writing with their advisor when it comes to situations like this -- I wouldn't wish this heartbreak on anyone.

[Need Coffee in an IV]

@Anathem I'm sorry! I really hope that time will heal this wound. I know you said that this internship won't be waiting around forever, but I think its still a good idea to keep in contact. Let them know due to policies and conflicts you will not be able to accept this opportunity but you look forward to future collaboration. Keep an eye out on job postings as well.

[maelia8]

I had no idea that so many institutions forbid work for graduate students! In my department, as long as we stay under a certain earning threshold, we are allowed to work up to about 10 hours/week on the side (in addition to TA/Researcher/Reader jobs that are part of our funding package). Most graduate students I know work for research institutes or libraries on campus for a little extra cash, and I did data entry two summer ago for a nice wage, also for a campus entity. 

Have you checked whether the issue is the amount of money you'd be making at this job? If so, maybe you could negotiate a salary that is more in line with your department's understanding of "internship"?

[TakeruK]

5 hours ago, maelia8 said:

I had no idea that so many institutions forbid work for graduate students! In my department, as long as we stay under a certain earning threshold, we are allowed to work up to about 10 hours/week on the side (in addition to TA/Researcher/Reader jobs that are part of our funding package). Most graduate students I know work for research institutes or libraries on campus for a little extra cash, and I did data entry two summer ago for a nice wage, also for a campus entity. 

Have you checked whether the issue is the amount of money you'd be making at this job? If so, maybe you could negotiate a salary that is more in line with your department's understanding of "internship"?

I think my school expects all fully funded students to be fully committed to their program of study and does not allow outside work. However, it is definitely possible to get permission to work something like up to 10 hours/week on the side, if you are American (our RA or TA positions take up all of the allowed work hours for international students here). It's not a sure thing though---the school might be okay with some stuff but not others. 

But in this case, the OP is asking for an internship which is a lot more than just a side-commitment. It sounds like something that the OP would have to take a leave of absence to do which takes time away from the research their advisor expects from them. At my school, this definitely requires permission from the advisor as accepting an admission offer here is basically an agreement that you will devote your time to completing your degree unless you have permission to do otherwise.

[maelia8]

10 minutes ago, TakeruK said:

But in this case, the OP is asking for an internship which is a lot more than just a side-commitment. It sounds like something that the OP would have to take a leave of absence to do which takes time away from the research their advisor expects from them. At my school, this definitely requires permission from the advisor as accepting an admission offer here is basically an agreement that you will devote your time to completing your degree unless you have permission to do otherwise.

Could it be that this is a humanities/sciences difference? We do not work in labs, so most people take off from campus for the summer and research or do language learning on their own time. Our advisors do not expect research done by deadlines from us really until we are in the dissertation writing phase (year 5+), so our summers are really up to us to define unless we are taking a foreign language course. I know lots of students in my department who have other jobs as freelancers or doing summer teaching at the city college, and nobody ever had to agree not to work as long as we don't go over the arbitrary earnings threshold (I think it's around $35,000 per year).

[TakeruK]

6 hours ago, maelia8 said:

Could it be that this is a humanities/sciences difference? We do not work in labs, so most people take off from campus for the summer and research or do language learning on their own time. Our advisors do not expect research done by deadlines from us really until we are in the dissertation writing phase (year 5+), so our summers are really up to us to define unless we are taking a foreign language course. I know lots of students in my department who have other jobs as freelancers or doing summer teaching at the city college, and nobody ever had to agree not to work as long as we don't go over the arbitrary earnings threshold (I think it's around $35,000 per year).

Yeah it's probably a humanities/science difference. I think this is how it is in the sciences even in non-lab fields like mine. In most science fields, we are funded 12 months of the year, so we don't get summers off. In fact, because we don't have classes or TA work in the summer, we are most research-productive in the summer! Sometimes, we might be funded with an RAship of say, 20 hours per week and we might be paid the same rate throughout the year. But the reality might be that we only work 10-15 hours per week during the school year on research and up to 40 hours per week during the summer. Similarly, the professor is quite busy during the year with classes and committee work, but in the summer, they also get way more time to do research. So, that summer time is quite valuable and I can understand why the prof and the school do not want students disappearing unless they are going on an actual leave of absence from the program.

There are some science programs that don't automatically provide 12 months funding. The only one I've seen is one school that only offers 9 months funding for the first year (12 months funding from then on). During the first summer, students have a choice between seeking a summer research position with a prof or taking that time off to study for qualifying exams. Most students choose the research position since it will pay you but some go home that first summer and study / take a break.

[Need Coffee in an IV]

It may also be a masters vs phd thing as well. I'm currently attending a terminal masters degree for museums. I receive funding (not a lot) and its a very interdisciplinary program. While my focus is more STEM aligned, my peers work in art, anthropology, registration, etc. My program actually encourages us to try and obtain internships. My job isn't exactly restricted by time, I can either stay here and work during the summer or I can leave.