Villanova vs. U. Ill: Urbana-Champaign

[Gray Under Gray]

Alright, I need help making a decision between two fully funded offers. I've been beating myself up over this and just can't work it out by myself. Please, all relevant opinions are welcome!

The two programs: The MA/PhD English lit program at UIUC (ranked #26) or the English MA at Villanova (unranked). My interests include gender and queer studies. And I'm currently interested largely in the ability of language to oppress and liberate people within these groups. 

 

THE CASE FOR UIUC:

-Better ranking (I'm pretty sure I want to get a PhD elsewhere and UIUC might make it easier to get into a prestigious program) 

-Teaching Assistantship

-Larger stipend in an area with a lower cost of living

-Minor in Gender and Women's studies. 

-Option to pursue PhD afterward. 

-Self-proclaimed women's and gender studies powerhouse 

 

THE CASE AGAINST UIUC:

-Giant school (might affect my experience as an MA student) 

-Less attractive geographical location imo 

-Despite having a larger faculty, fewer faculty share interests similar to mine. 

 

THE CASE FOR VU:

-Smaller school, courses are limited to MA students (15 students in each course)

-Gender and Women's studies certificate

-More exciting area

-Option to TA (eventually)

-Faculty with interests more similar to my own (esp. Travis M. Foster)

 

THE CASE AGAINST VU: 

-unranked program (rumors of graduates from the MA program having difficulty getting into a top PhD program.) 

        -Graduate assistantship (with option to eventually TA. At UIUC I will begin teaching asap) 

-More expensive area with smaller stipend

 

And I haven't visited either campus yet. I won't be able to until the week of the 4/15 probably, so I can't use that as a factor. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by bgk
requested

[Thersites]

That's a tough decision! For you, it seems like you have two wonderful options! How do their courses for this year compare? what undergrad courses will Dr. Foster teach this year? It seems as though the VU grad courses aren't super relevant to your interests, but I've read elsewhere on the boards that you may take undergrad courses for grad credit if you make the case.

Illinois does have a lot more scenery than you may think. It's not the most exciting area, but you're 3 hrs by public transit and under two hours by car from Chicago- which is an amazing city! That being said, the mainline area, although expensive, is beautiful, and the more affordable west phily is only about 30 or 45 mins away using septa. 

Both are good schools, both have good placement rates, barring the past three years at VU. I think your decision has to come down to which university has more coursework suited to your interests, and also it always comes down to the money!

 

i hope that I've helped... let me know your decision, and congrats on the two great offers! 

[positivitize]

I'm in a similar situation, albeit with a less stark difference between the rankings of the two prospective schools. 6 years in a MA/Ph.D. is a huge commitment coming out of undergrad--especially because if you want to actually graduate in 6 years, you'll need to be lazer-focused on your topic from day one. The kind of focus and total certainty of "THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO WRITE MY DISSERTATION ON" isn't common in students with no MA/Grad experience. The MA gives you a chance to find your feet a little bit, get the lay of the land, and make more calculated decisions as to how you want to proceed--but it only funds for 2 years and you have to apply all over again to Ph.D.s. Would you be okay if you didn't get into a program as good as UIUC after getting your MA at 'Nova? The whole "bird in the hand logic" applies here

That said, it sounds as if 'Nova is a better fit, and from what I've heard, fit trumps rank...

I can't advise you, mostly because I'm not sure what I'm going to do and my situation is similar to yours. Let me know what you decide!

[Dr. Old Bill]

20 minutes ago, positivitize said:

The MA gives you a chance to find your feet a little bit, get the lay of the land, and make more calculated decisions as to how you want to proceed
 

I completely agree with this, and having gone through the B.A. - M.A. - Ph.D. progression, rather than the B.A. - Ph.D. one that I had initially planned on, I'm infinitely grateful to have received my M.A. first. People can (and routinely do) still thrive when going from B.A. to Ph.D., of course -- it's really a YMMV situation -- but there's huge value to getting acclimated to graduate study via an M.A. first, and it still gives you an advanced degree if you realize that you don't want to go down the Ph.D. road after all.

I don't agree with the following, however:

6 years in a MA/Ph.D. is a huge commitment coming out of undergrad--especially because if you want to actually graduate in 6 years, you'll need to be lazer-focused on your topic from day one. The kind of focus and total certainty of "

THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO WRITE MY DISSERTATION ON" isn't common in students with no MA/Grad experience.

I say this with no trace of intended offense whatsoever (obviously!), but the notion that you need to start a Ph.D. with a firm idea of what you'll write your dissertation on is one of the biggest myths out there about this process. I'm nearly done with my M.A. and have zero idea of what I'll be writing my dissertation on during my Ph.D. Sure, I've thought of some vague possibilities, based on what I've already been focusing on, but dissertation topics are often arrived at by regular consultation with professors and mentors, combined with the evolution of your own interests, combined with what's happening in the world of academia in your subfield today. Honestly, some people don't know what they're going to write their dissertation on until after they complete their comps. In other words, you are allowed to explore for quite awhile until you finally have to hone in and specialize.

As to the OP, UIUC seems like a no-brainer to me, based on what you've described. Remember, however, that rankings don't apply to Master's programs, so that's a false equivalence in the for/against list. Still, I think that at the Master's level, you want to go to a program that is institutionally strong in your area of choice. Remember that when it comes to POIs, while they're still very important, you'll only be working with them for two years, as opposed to the five or six at the doctoral level...and you'll (theoretically) have a better idea of your specific focus once you're done with your M.A. In other words, if you know that gender studies (broadly defined) are your main interest, then going to a program that is strong in that realm will help you to whittle down to more specifics, which will then introduce you to some of the key POIs in those specifics, which will then allow you to focus your Ph.D. program research around those POIs...and those POIs may be different from the POIs you are highlighting now.

Both are great programs, of course, and it's a luxury to have a choice! But from what you've stated, I think UIUC is your best bet.

[Yanaka]

Thank you for posting that about VU's PhD placement

[echo449]

This is sorta unrelated (I think if they money is better, choose UIUC), but you should remove the email you received in your original post. It's a bad move to publish private correspondence online without permission. 

[Gray Under Gray]

1 hour ago, positivitize said:

The MA gives you a chance to find your feet a little bit, get the lay of the land, and make more calculated decisions as to how you want to proceed--but it only funds for 2 years and you have to apply all over again to Ph.D.s. Would you be okay if you didn't get into a program as good as UIUC after getting your MA at 'Nova? The whole "bird in the hand logic" applies here

 

This is exactly why I'm going for an MA. I still need to focus my interests.

The "bird in hand logic" sums up my trouble and anxiety. Yes, I'm incredibly lucky to have two great offers. But I've also seen people screwed over by the perceived worth of their alma mater to not give ranking a serious consideration. 

 

43 minutes ago, Old Bill said:

I'm nearly done with my M.A. and have zero idea of what I'll be writing my dissertation on during my Ph.D. Sure, I've thought of some vague possibilities, based on what I've already been focusing on, but dissertation topics are often arrived at by regular consultation with professors and mentors, combined with the evolution of your own interests, combined with what's happening in the world of academia in your subfield today. Honestly, some people don't know what they're going to write their dissertation on until after they complete their comps. In other words, you are allowed to explore for quite awhile until you finally have to hone in and specialize.

 

 

I find a lot of peace in this! 

 

44 minutes ago, Old Bill said:

Remember, however, that rankings don't apply to Master's programs

Yes! Totally — That's why I reached out about VU's Phd placement. I've read a lot on here about how unranked programs make it more difficult to get into a top PhD program. I already come from an unknown undergraduate institution, though I loved it, it's not doing my CV any favors. I worry about placement (probably too much) because of my mentors—both in their forties and accomplished in their literary fields. One went to Columbia and CUNY. She got a TT position within several years of finishing her PhD. However, my other mentor, though equally brilliant, cannot find a permanent teaching position. She hops around universities, submitting dozens of apps every couple of year; she went to Texas A&M and UT: Knoxville (great schools, yes, but less esteemed). She's so jaded by her misfortune that she unknowingly talks students out of going into academia. I've been told by several tenured professors that her experience has everything to do with her education — I worry about ending up in that same boat.

 

48 minutes ago, Old Bill said:

Remember that when it comes to POIs, while they're still very important, you'll only be working with them for two years, as opposed to the five or six at the doctoral level...and you'll (theoretically) have a better idea of your specific focus once you're done with your M.A. In other words, if you know that gender studies (broadly defined) are your main interest, then going to a program that is strong in that realm will help you to whittle down to more specifics, which will then introduce you to some of the key POIs in those specifics, which will then allow you to focus your Ph.D. program research around those POIs...and those POIs may be different from the POIs you are highlighting now.

 

 

A good point. Currently, I think Villanova is a better academic fit based on what I've read, BUT I'm still very new to all of this. My interests are clay, so maybe I should worry more about secondary factors (networking, exposure, etc.)... 

 

37 minutes ago, Yanaka said:

Thank you for posting that about VU's PhD placement

No problem! How do you respond to the message I received? Does it affect your decision at all? 

[Gray Under Gray]

16 minutes ago, echo449 said:

This is sorta unrelated (I think if they money is better, choose UIUC), but you should remove the email you received in your original post. It's a bad move to publish private correspondence online without permission. 

 

You're right. I will see what I can do, but the edit button is no longer available. 

[Warelin]

I think it's important to note that no MA programs are ranked. As a result, you'll find that Villanova, University of Massachusetts - Boston, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Oregon State University and others aren't ranked. Likewise, a program's "prestige" extends only to its PHD program. Some people might have trouble transferring from one institution that grants PHDs to another that grants PHD. This might be because some programs might think that the person wasn't good enough to be accepted into their own PHD program.

I think it might also be important to consider the overall climate of a city (temperature, rural vs city, political spectrum, transportation options, costs) and other things of that nature. From my own experience, there are some cities I've lived in for extended periods that I would be unhappy living in and others that I would gladly love to live in again.

It might also be worth noting how much time would be granted to you as an MA student. Are there upper-level undergrads taking classes with you? Are you competing with PHD students for funding? How many students does each faculty have under them?

No university could guarantee an outcome. I've had friends from the Ivy League get shut out when applying to some schools for an English PHD program. There are schools that prefer straight-from-undergraduate (and I believe Illinois, Indiana and Penn State are the most well known), there are some schools which require an MA, and there are schools that prefer a mixture of students. Some schools separate the applicants into 2 different piles depending on whether they possess an MA or not. As a result, you may find that some schools will be harder to gain an acceptance into while you'll find others will be more "open" to the idea of accepting you.

On a different sidenote: The institution that you went to for your Master's is significantly less important than where you get your PHD from. From different conversations I've had with directors, they care more about the classes you've had and why you've decided on the classes you take and why you're interested in them.

[Yanaka]

@Gray Under Gray it would be really too bad, to say the least, to refuse my position at Villanova! It's a great place I think, with faculty members that are a very good fit for me and I don't think I'll make it into any funded MA (GPA and GRE too low) in 2018, let alone a PhD. And your message only reassures me more! We don't know how these students have played their applications + someone got into Rutgers + if the department decided to help their PhD-inspiring students even more, then I don't see how their next PhD applicants can't make it into a top 10  

 

[Gray Under Gray]

14 minutes ago, Yanaka said:

@Gray Under Gray it would be really too bad, to say the least, to refuse my position at Villanova! It's a great place I think, with faculty members that are a very good fit for me and I don't think I'll make it into any funded MA (GPA and GRE too low) in 2018, let alone a PhD. And your message only reassures me more! We don't know how these students have played their applications + someone got into Rutgers + if the department decided to help their PhD-inspiring students even more, then I don't see how their next PhD applicants can't make it into a top 10  

 

 

You're so optimistic! I LOVE it. 

[Yanaka]

5 minutes ago, Gray Under Gray said:

You're so optimistic! I LOVE it. 

I love being a ray of sunshine on the outside, and a hail storm in the inside.