2018 Philosophy Applicants, Assemble!

[hector549]

14 hours ago, soproperlybasic said:

If you're strictly looking at becoming an analytic philosopher, would it count against you if you asked a continental prof for a recommendation? That prof knew me pretty well, and I actually got a better grade in her class than I did in a course I took on analytic phil. of mind that I found really difficult. She was also the one who wrote my rec. for the summer diversity institute I attended...

I'd very much doubt that it would count against you. If the letter is from a philosophy professor with whom you took an upper-division class and had some degree of interaction, she or he should be able to accurately assess your philosophical ability, and that assessment should carry weight, even if that professor's approach to philosophy differs from that of the admissions committee members who will read the letter. I think you're right to choose the professor with whom you did your best work, rather than someone you interacted with less and/or in whose class you struggled a bit.

[Nichi]

On 5/15/2017 at 1:53 PM, Phallosopher said:

I'm going to be looking at programs that are open to students with an interdisciplinary mindset or non-traditional background.

Non-traditional almost seems like the norm at UCR. (Possibly because non-traditionals stand out a bit, but at the same time it was the only place I visited where my odd background got a "Yeah, we all have odd backgrounds" response.)

 

On 5/15/2017 at 1:53 PM, Phallosopher said:

I'm also hoping to talk to students from a traditional background (earned BA in philosophy) who would be able to give me some tips on what philosophy departments would worry I am missing, and how to get it or demonstrate that I have it.

 

The general rule is have upper-level or grad-level coursework in philosophy. Even if it's just one class to 

1. Get an A and show you can handle it.

2. Get a letter from a philosopher who can say you can handle it.

 

On 6/27/2017 at 2:20 PM, philoguy said:

Things that I'm worried about: 1) undergrad GPA (see above); 2) My GREs - they seem strong to me, but I feel as if I have any shortcoming in such a competitive pool it could prove fatal; 3) No publications: I have submitted some papers to conferences and journals but no word yet; 4) My M.A. program, as stated, is in its infancy but I'm hoping this will be mitigated by the recommendation letters coming from well-known faculty

Anyways, thoughts about how realistic acceptance to a top 15 (maybe top 10?) school is given my current academic standing would be much appreciated. Do I have a shot? Do I need to get something published/speak at a conference? Retake my GREs? 

I only published in one undergrad conference proceedings and presented at undergrad conferences. My B.S. came from a school without much of a reputation. (It's a decent program, but I doubt the name was pulling much weight.) Nonetheless, I did get accepted to a top 15 overall philosophy program. If you do a little bit of searching in the subforum, you'll see some threads with stories of even longer shots. A top 10/15/20 program is a long shot for pretty much anyone. I wouldn't say you need to be publishing or speaking to get in, but at the same time, if you can be presenting your work and getting feedback, why aren't you? 

Several studies I've seen (thanks to the philosophy blogosphere being concerned with causal connections between studying philosophy and test scores) say you can't do much to improve your GRE. If you have the time and money, though, it can't hurt, especially since you know where your gaps are. (I was able to remember the problem I missed on the Q section and solved it on my way home. Prompt smack to the forehead.) Look at the averages to the schools you're interested in. At some you're solid. I've seen a few where you'd be at a disadvantage.

As @Glasperlenspieler said, though, fit will matter. Spamming the top ten with little regard for fit is a waste.

 

On 6/29/2017 at 10:06 AM, iunoionnis said:

Besides this, the Leiter reports are in my view largely subjective, arbitrary

It's a survey of what many prominent philosophers think regarding which schools have the best faculty. 

The alternative is just asking the philosophers you know which schools are best. You can still do that, though. PGR just gives you an aggregate of what more qualified people think.

On 6/29/2017 at 11:57 AM, ThePeon said:

And yes, there are schools that are lower ranked (or unranked) that have relatively good TT placement rates, albeit mostly into teaching positions.

This is why finding placement data is important. Last I checked, U of Memphis had a 100% placement rate despite being (iirc) unranked. Reading the part on the website saying what the PGR is measuring is important in using it. Really in using any statistical data, reading what the data is measuring is a good idea.

On 6/29/2017 at 0:02 PM, Glasperlenspieler said:

Take a look at the essays you wrote five years ago. How many of them are you proud of, that is, you would be happy to show them to your current professors as a quality piece of work? The fact of the matter is you grow a lot over the course of your undergraduate career and what you though was a great idea at the beginning maybe doesn't look so cool now. I think it's fair to assume that the sort of growth you will experience over the course of a PhD program is equal if not greater. So five years down the line, that cool paper may not be something you want associated with your name, especially when it comes to tenure review. Now, if you get the approval from a top-notch journal, then perhaps that's a good reason to think you're really on to something. Otherwise, you're probably better of holding onto those ideas and developing them as your skills as a professional develop. What's currently belongs in a mid-tier journal, may belong in Nous is you're patient enough

1. I'd be concerned about anyone who hasn't grown substantially in five years. If you're not getting better each year, what are you doing?

2. Why are there mid-tier journals, then? Shouldn't everyone be polishing until they get into Nous?

On 7/3/2017 at 8:59 PM, kretschmar said:

Can anyone speak to the relative merits of recommendations from philosophy and non-philosophy profs? I have a choice between an academic mentor in Religious Studies for whom I worked as a research assistant (who will certainly write an outstanding letter), and a philosophy professor I've had for only one course.

 

The general rule is a letter from a philosopher is better than from a non-philosopher. Though the more damning rule is when more than three can be sent, three good is good. Three good plus one lukewarm may sink you. I would speculate two good letters from philosophers plus a good from religious studies is better than two good philosopher letters and a lukewarm philosopher letter. (This is also usually regarding PhD programs. I will note I know much less about applying to MA programs.)

 

[dogman1212]

I plan to send out several applications for the fall 2018 semester.  I have a lower undergraduate GPA (3.64), yet my in-major GPA is higher (about 3.8).  I come from a liberal arts college in the midwest with a strong track record of getting students into top philosophy programs.

I'm most interested in political philosophy and ethics, but I am also interested in philosophy of religion and philosophy of language.  I have a 22 page paper that I wrote on a political philosophy topic in order to graduate with honors at my college.  I will likely modify that and use it as a writing sample.

Top 15 PhD programs seem to be a bit of a long-shot for me.  I plan to apply to a mix of top 40-ish PhD programs and top masters programs.  I will apply to Northern Illinois and UW-Milwaukee for sure, maybe San Fransisco State as well.  It would be nice if I could stay in the midwest if possible because of a relationship I'm in, yet I still plan to send a few applications to programs farther away as well.

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but I'm spending about an hour a day studying right now.  I just graduated this last May and am taking a gap year of sorts while working to save money and think things over.  If anyone has any questions or advice, let me know!!

[maxhgns]

Don't be afraid to aim high too. You'll kick yourself later if you don't, and are more likely to feel resentful.

You're not a very good judge of your abilities or fit, or of what will appeal to the committee. Let them do the work of rejecting you, don't do their work for them!

[Glasperlenspieler]

21 hours ago, Nichi said:

1. I'd be concerned about anyone who hasn't grown substantially in five years. If you're not getting better each year, what are you doing?

Certainly! I mainly wanted to point out that it's possible that a paper you're proud of at the moment might not be something that you want publicly associated with your name down the line. My suspicion is that the odds of this are much higher for a paper you wrote during your senior year of undergrad than late in a PhD program or afterwards. There are, however, almost certainly exceptions on either side of this equation. This consideration coupled with the possibility of further refining an idea through added training should, I think, give reason for caution about publishing too early in one's academic career. Obviously though, this is a personal decision and there are a lot of factors that can tip the balance in one direction or the other.

 

21 hours ago, Nichi said:

2. Why are there mid-tier journals, then? Shouldn't everyone be polishing until they get into Nous?

Should everyone be polishing until they get into Nous? Depends on what you mean by 'should'. I happen to think it would be better for professional philosophy and intellectual inquiry for people to publish less frequently and more polished pieces. I also recognize that contemporary hiring and tenure policies make this a naive suggestion. Not publishing is simply not an option after a certain point in your academic career. I just happen to think that that point occurs somewhere during a PhD program and not before. 

 

There are a number of interesting discussions of publishing on Leiter and Daily Nous. Here are a couple for what it's worth:

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2012/05/grad-students-questions-about-publishing.html

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2015/04/publishing-as-an-ma-student-applying-to-phd-programs.html

http://dailynous.com/2014/10/06/how-much-should-graduate-students-publish/

 

I'd be happy to continue a discussion on publishing if people are interested, but at this point it might make the most sense to create a new thread for it and leave this one for more general applicant discussion.

 

 

[Duns Eith]

On 7/11/2017 at 1:00 PM, dogman1212 said:

My professor also suggested Western Michigan and Missouri as potential masters programs to apply to. Western Michigan is especially appealing because it's less than an hour from where my girlfriend will be attending college (I know this isn't the only factor though ?)!

If you want an insider perspective on WMU, I'm happy to field any questions via PM. Just graduated this April, starting a PhD program this Fall.

[Phallosopher]

On 7/3/2017 at 6:59 PM, kretschmar said:

Can anyone speak to the relative merits of recommendations from philosophy and non-philosophy profs? I have a choice between an academic mentor in Religious Studies for whom I worked as a research assistant (who will certainly write an outstanding letter), and a philosophy professor I've had for only one course.

Also, is anyone else going for an MA in 2018 due to a non-philosophy undergraduate background?

 

 

This past season I got most of my recommendations from mathematicians actually. Philosophers study the underlying principles of things, so let's hope they think about what the underlying principles of being good at studying philosophy are. My recommenders (I was permitted to read one of the letters and actively encouraged to read and comment on another) were able to write about my logical reasoning skills, divergent thinking capabilities, and how much I am "at home in the realm of the abstract". So in my experience, recommendations are not restricted to "did well in my philosophy course" or the like. Can you get a recommendation from each of them? Most programs ask for 3 letters. I would think that would be best, as the non-philosophy professors can do what I described as valuable above, and the philosophy professors can give the more straightforward evidence that you will likely continue to excel in philosophy coursework and make their investment in your candidacy worthwhile.

Hopefully that helps even if it's a bit of "if I were on an admissions committee, then..."

[sierriously94]

Howdy, Colin! 

I am wandering somewhat-erratically amidst ROUND TWO of graduate school applications. I would love some thoughts and advice. 

I got my BA in Philosophy in May and graduated Cum Laude with a 3.5 overall GPA (4.0 Major). I attended Texas A&M University which has a fairly small Philosophy department, but a top 100 graduate program. I applied last year at only three programs (I paid my way through college on my own so I didn't have the opportunity to sow seeds like I would've liked). I was rejected from University of Oregon, Rice University, and was waitlisted at my alma mater, Texas A&M. I was ultimately not admitted off of the waitlist and from asking around, it appears as though it came down to me and one other applicant-- they went with the other applicant. I've had 6 months to recover from this disappointment. I've been blissfully following my SO around the country on his traveling job and I hadn't thought I would be ready to apply again for a few years. Yet here I am, ready to shoot another shot.  

My heart is with the University of Oregon. I've researched other schools, but it's definitely the school for me. My SO and I are determined to end up in the Pacific Northwest and the program is PERFECT for me. From what I've been told, there is an extremely limited number of departments that have focuses in Latin American Philosophy, and this is one of them. (My alma mater is one of the other few.) During my senior year I took a class with the professor who oversees graduate Latin American philosophy studies and then in the spring I did a semester-long research project with him where I translated two original Spanish philosophy pieces. One has been published, one will be published this semester. The whole department is strong in Continental Philosophy which has influenced my tendency towards that area and the U of O department.

I'm bilingual, grew up in South America, and have translated professionally for one year now. (I want to take on German once I get into a program). Being that there are so few Latin American philosophy programs, my thought is that there wouldn't be as much competition for those spots. I'm not kidding myself, I know I'm still going to have to fight tooth and nail, but is there any truth to that claim?

My greatest weakness has to be my GRE scores. I took the test twice in the semester before applying and only managed to land a 308 / V:156 Q: 152 W: 5.0 my second round. I know this has to look bad. My advisor and several of my professors emphasized how the admissions committees will look into my overall pakckage but I can't help but be paranoid that my scores lost me any credibility.  

Looking back, my writing sample was underdeveloped and didn't showcase my writing very well. I know I can come up with a much better writing sample this time. I have now translated several works and have another semester of classes under my belt to conjure inspiration. My letter of intent was also bland, but I think these six months of being away from school (which has been mildly traumatic) and my final semester of courses added a lot of perspective into what I want to do and why philosophy is the only way I can see myself being happy in the future. I can kick these up so many notches. 

My letters had to be killer. 1) Took two classes with him, kicked butt and showed tremendous growth. He referred me to the Latin American studies professor which sparked that relationship and path. 2) Latin American studies professor; took a class with him and he oversaw my semester-long research study. Absolutely loves me. Still keep in touch. (He also referred me to a colleague in Spain who I did paid work for over the summer)[he's also a close friend of the guy at U of O that I want to work with]. 3) the department head; took his class, he was involved in Phil Club regularly, and we held casual discussion meetings for the rest of the year (fairly well known professor with lots of friends). 4) brand new professor (just got her first independent job); I had her in her final semester as a Phd student. her LoR was just an extra tag on. she still had wonderful things to say. ---- I can get all 4 to reproduce letters and #2 especially will have much more to say about me since we have conducted research together. 

I was a part of Philosophy Club for two years, secretary then VP. I was involved in a lot of clubs and organizations on campus and as I self-funded my studies, I also worked part time and full time during the entirety of my undergraduate career. 

 

I apologize for the novel of information. I suppose I would like to hear your insight on the following: 

--Why might I have been rejected last year?

--(Side Note: after I applied for U of O last fall, the professor I wanted to work with told me that he was going on sabbatical this year [the year I would've began].) Could that have played into my not having been accepted? 

--How much do GRE scores actually matter?

--Is applying to a program like Latin American philosophy (which is small/new) going to increase my chances of getting in? (Also considering I am finely tuned to the program with my background & Spanish fluency) 

--Tips for an amazing Statement of Purpose 

--Should I reach out to current graduate students in the program and pick their brains? (Is that weird?) [I've always been super close to the grad students at A&M, they're all extremely cool and approachable.] 

--Should I reach out to faculty at the program beyond the specific professor I want to work with? (I've met three professors over the last two years at conferences at A&M)

--Is there any way to inquire about feedback on previous applications? I would love for them to tell me what was wrong about my applications last year. 

--Do departments care about what I did outside of school? For instance, constantly working part and full time and being involved on campus? Furthermore, should I include my professional resume with my applications or is that completely trivial?

--ANY tips you might have regarding any aspect of applying for Phd programs 

 

Again, sorry for the long post, but I'm hoping you can shed some light on my concerns. Thank you and have a great day! 

 

 

 

[be.]

42 minutes ago, sierriously94 said:

Why might I have been rejected last year?

It's hard to say for sure. However, if your writing sample was less than stellar, then that was likely the most detrimental factor. For this round, making your sample as strong as it can be should be your first priority.

 

1 hour ago, sierriously94 said:

--Is applying to a program like Latin American philosophy (which is small/new) going to increase my chances of getting in? (Also considering I am finely tuned to the program with my background & Spanish fluency) 

It may, simply because you'll likely be competing against a relatively small pool of applicants.

 

45 minutes ago, sierriously94 said:

How much do GRE scores actually matter?

This is a somewhat controversial issue. My own opinion (which seems to be more or less in line with the majority opinion) is that the GRE is the least important part of your application. However, that doesn't mean that it's unimportant. The scores you have now will likely hurt you to some extent, and so I would encourage you to retake, if it's at all an option. That said, some people on here have claimed that continental-leaning programs don't place quite as much emphasis on the GRE. While that's plausible, I haven't seen any evidence supporting it. 

 

54 minutes ago, sierriously94 said:

Should I reach out to faculty at the program beyond the specific professor I want to work with?

I would advise against this. I can't seen it helping all that much, and it might come off as brown-nosing.

 

57 minutes ago, sierriously94 said:

Is there any way to inquire about feedback on previous applications?

Generally, no.

 

1 hour ago, sierriously94 said:

Do departments care about what I did outside of school? For instance, constantly working part and full time and being involved on campus? Furthermore, should I include my professional resume with my applications or is that completely trivial?

If you've been doing anything related to philosophy, then you might include that in your application. As for a professional resume, I wouldn't include it; include a CV instead.

 

As for general advice, again, focus on the writing sample: it's the single most important part of your application.

 

Good luck!

[Neither Here Nor There]

I am applying for phds. I have degrees from Canada and feel very nervous about applying to the States. Its a whole new world for me. I'm also working full time right now, while doing last minute thesis edits for my MA, so I am frustrated that I cannot just get the applications in (I am using a chapter of my thesis for my writing sample, but it requires editing so that it can be short, concise, and clear).

I have high grades and a strong background in philosophy and I feel like an outstanding writing sample (but don't we all?) I'm most nervous about the GRE and having Canadian degrees (and not from U of T). I am also still studying for the GRE, hoping to bring the Q score up. The math section is ridiculously basic stuff in the scope of things; back in high school, I would have scored high. And right now I just get frustrated all the time studying for it, because my heart is in my writing projects, not math. 

As far as where I am applying, I am applying to a number of universities that I consider medieval philosophy friendly, both in Canada and the States.

[Xia1]

Hi all, just introducing myself. First time applicant, and anxious as to how this will go. I am applying across the top 50, and am most hopeful about Notre Dame. My greatest weakness is my relative no name undergrad (though a large university), but I was the top (phil) student in my graduating class. I'm sure a certain someone will appear to reinforce how important pedigree is, but alas, I can do nothing to change it now. So I suppose we'll see! Here's hoping, best of luck to all!

[évariste]

So, I'm deferring my application to next year.  Having transferred to my undergrad institution (having only been there since fall 2016) I think I'd really benefit from having the additional year of Prestigious College on my transcript--plus I'm currently studying abroad and taking courses in the philosophy masters program at the Sorbonne (which are looking like they might alter the course of my writing sample--the French continental perspective is expanding my horizons lol) so next year my letters will really be able to mention my doing graduate-level coursework.

So I guess if anyone has any recommendations on things to do in the interim (diversity conferences, maybe?  Universities offering pre-doctoral research internships?), that's where I'm setting my sights for now...

[downwardabsolute]

Hey all,

I'm currently an undergrad finishing up a BS in math and physics, and I've decided to go into philosophy. My plan is to attend a masters programs so that I'll be in shape to apply to PhD programs. My school has a strong philosophy faculty (PGR top 5), and I'll be getting two (probably really good) letters from philosophy professors here (and one letter from a math professor). My GPA will likely be about 3.8 after this semester, and about 3.9 in philosophy. I'll have taken five philosophy classes when I apply, and 7 total by the time I graduate. My interests lie in logic and philosophy of physics, and some other analytic-type stuff (thought it's hard to say due to my lack of experience). 

Based on the above information, does it seem like I have a realistic chance of getting into somewhere like Tufts, Brandeis, or NIU? I'm mainly worried about my weak background in philosophy, I don't know how much of a disadvantage it is. Thanks. 

[kretschmar]

15 hours ago, downwardabsolute said:

Hey all,

I'm currently an undergrad finishing up a BS in math and physics, and I've decided to go into philosophy. My plan is to attend a masters programs so that I'll be in shape to apply to PhD programs. My school has a strong philosophy faculty (PGR top 5), and I'll be getting two (probably really good) letters from philosophy professors here (and one letter from a math professor). My GPA will likely be about 3.8 after this semester, and about 3.9 in philosophy. I'll have taken five philosophy classes when I apply, and 7 total by the time I graduate. My interests lie in logic and philosophy of physics, and some other analytic-type stuff (thought it's hard to say due to my lack of experience). 

Based on the above information, does it seem like I have a realistic chance of getting into somewhere like Tufts, Brandeis, or NIU? I'm mainly worried about my weak background in philosophy, I don't know how much of a disadvantage it is. Thanks. 

You seem like the ideal candidate for a top analytic MA. 7 courses is nearly a minor, at least at my alma mater. If your interests lie somewhere in philosophy of science, you could even reasonably apply to a few PhD's.

[OnlyATautology]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:33 PM, kretschmar said:

You seem like the ideal candidate for a top analytic MA. 7 courses is nearly a minor, at least at my alma mater. If your interests lie somewhere in philosophy of science, you could even reasonably apply to a few PhD's.

 

On 11/18/2017 at 3:16 AM, downwardabsolute said:

Hey all,

I'm currently an undergrad finishing up a BS in math and physics, and I've decided to go into philosophy. My plan is to attend a masters programs so that I'll be in shape to apply to PhD programs. My school has a strong philosophy faculty (PGR top 5), and I'll be getting two (probably really good) letters from philosophy professors here (and one letter from a math professor). My GPA will likely be about 3.8 after this semester, and about 3.9 in philosophy. I'll have taken five philosophy classes when I apply, and 7 total by the time I graduate. My interests lie in logic and philosophy of physics, and some other analytic-type stuff (thought it's hard to say due to my lack of experience). 

Based on the above information, does it seem like I have a realistic chance of getting into somewhere like Tufts, Brandeis, or NIU? I'm mainly worried about my weak background in philosophy, I don't know how much of a disadvantage it is. Thanks. 

 

Yes the above commenter is likely correct; if you have a high gpa from a PGR Top-5 school (a target school, more or less for PHD programs) in Math/Physics it puts you into quite a nice little niche as an applicant. If Philosophy of  Science (Physics) is your interest then I think not-having an undergrad background in philosophy will only be a minor dent in  your application to any M.A. program. The schools you mentioned are great places to start, and if your submitted paper/GRE's are as good as they likely will be, I think your chance of not being accepted into one is probably fairly low; actually many programs look for applicants like you. 

I might check out a place like Pitt HPS or Carnegie Mellon at the PHD level-many applicants in their doctorate programs have little formal training in philosophy but are accepted with STEM backgrounds as a consequence of academic merit. I really don't think it would be too unlikely to see an acceptance (at the phd level) to the aforementioned if your Writing sample and SOP is up to snuff. You'll even see that a decent number of philosophy faculty members who specialize in the areas concerning scientific sub fields or logic often do not even have PHD's in Philosophy, but have an M.A in Philosophy, etc. It's not uncommon to fill yourself in informally on technical philosophy while obtaining a more specialized degree in say Physics.

As is obvious, I highly recommend giving PHD programs a shot-many faculty members look for applicants who come from top-ranked schools and seem to have innate merit. In the meantime I would become familiar with the literature on your subfield to bolster your background and maybe improve the quality of such writing sample.

Good luck

[downwardabsolute]

18 minutes ago, OnlyATautology said:

 

 

Yes the above commenter is likely correct; if you have a high gpa from a PGR Top-5 school (a target school, more or less for PHD programs) in Math/Physics it puts you into quite a nice little niche as an applicant. If Philosophy of  Science (Physics) is your interest then I think not-having an undergrad background in philosophy will only be a minor dent in  your application to any M.A. program. The schools you mentioned are great places to start, and if your submitted paper/GRE's are as good as they likely will be, I think your chance of not being accepted into one is probably fairly low; actually many programs look for applicants like you. 

I might check out a place like Pitt HPS or Carnegie Mellon at the PHD level-many applicants in their doctorate programs have little formal training in philosophy but are accepted with STEM backgrounds as a consequence of academic merit. I really don't think it would be too unlikely to see an acceptance (at the phd level) to the aforementioned if your Writing sample and SOP is up to snuff. You'll even see that a decent number of philosophy faculty members who specialize in the areas concerning scientific sub fields or logic often do not even have PHD's in Philosophy, but have an M.A in Philosophy, etc. It's not uncommon to fill yourself in informally on technical philosophy while obtaining a more specialized degree in say Physics.

As is obvious, I highly recommend giving PHD programs a shot-many faculty members look for applicants who come from top-ranked schools and seem to have innate merit. In the meantime I would become familiar with the literature on your subfield to bolster your background and maybe improve the quality of such writing sample.

Good luck

 

On 11/18/2017 at 6:33 PM, kretschmar said:

You seem like the ideal candidate for a top analytic MA. 7 courses is nearly a minor, at least at my alma mater. If your interests lie somewhere in philosophy of science, you could even reasonably apply to a few PhD's.

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately it's too late for me to apply for PhD programs, since their deadlines are way earlier than those of masters programs and I haven't taken the GRE yet. That's no big deal though, since I don't feel anywhere near ready for a PhD program. 

But speaking of the GRE, how much should I worry about that? Recently I've been getting worried that I'll get a terrible verbal score. If the rest of my application is strong, should that be a big deal? 

[OnlyATautology]

15 minutes ago, downwardabsolute said:

 

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately it's too late for me to apply for PhD programs, since their deadlines are way earlier than those of masters programs and I haven't taken the GRE yet. That's no big deal though, since I don't feel anywhere near ready for a PhD program. 

But speaking of the GRE, how much should I worry about that? Recently I've been getting worried that I'll get a terrible verbal score. If the rest of my application is strong, should that be a big deal? 

It's a good question, I suppose at first glance it might be depend on exactly what you mean by "terrible" verbal score. Philosophy majors are well known for stellar verbal scores on the GRE, and many departments  (very informally at that) assume at least a 160+ on the verbal sections. In the sense that assumptions like this are so standard that significantly lower GRE scores from the average individual might functino as a signal that would be less than desirable for the applicant. 

With this unsorted background I would reccomend studying properly for the verbal section (take a solid month) just to ensure a sufficient score. There are various schools of thought and seemingly varying degrees of confidence on the following questions "to what extent the GRE functions as a determiner", whether individual departments have biases for or against the test (I think there may be a high-degree of subjectivity on this matter. Some faculty members seem to care quite a bit about it and some seem to ignore it entirely). With this understood ensuring at least a 160 or more ideally 165+ on the verbal section is really an insurance policy, particularly when you have no formal background in philosophy. Do be aware however that there is a great degree of ambiguity on the importance of the GRE at large. 

The more important part if your application is the writing sample by a country mile, but the GRE isn't something to be ignored

[kretschmar]

21 hours ago, downwardabsolute said:

 

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately it's too late for me to apply for PhD programs, since their deadlines are way earlier than those of masters programs and I haven't taken the GRE yet. That's no big deal though, since I don't feel anywhere near ready for a PhD program. 

But speaking of the GRE, how much should I worry about that? Recently I've been getting worried that I'll get a terrible verbal score. If the rest of my application is strong, should that be a big deal? 

The GRE seems to function mostly as a safety check, for committees. Presumably a stellar GRE can help assuage (minor) academic doubts. Given your non-traditional background, I suspect the GRE verbal would take on more importance in your case than in others. They may ponder whether you are up to scratch in the "humanities" side of things – which is (roughly) what the verbal GRE measures. You could consider it a chance to move your application from "strong" to "unquestionable."

I also lack a philosophy major (though I come from elsewhere in the humanities). So I spent hundreds of hours beating the GRE, trying to compensate. Time well spent? We'll see.

But again, you already seem to be well-positioned for the MAs you mentioned because of your solid academic qualifications in physics. Besides, the writing sample will do worlds more to indicate your verbal ability than the GRE will. Better focus there.

Edited November 20, 2017 by kretschmar

[philstudent1991]

Hey y'all, 

Good luck! I have an MA from a top program, applied to PhDs, got an offer but declined it to leave Philosophy. Feel free to PM me if you wanna talk about admissions, MA programs or the job market. 

[dogman1212]

I figured I would post an update. I just completed a dozen or so applications to PhD programs and a few MA apps. My main area of interest is political philosophy. All of the PhD programs I applied to have strong faculty working in political philosophy. The programs I applied to are a fairly even-spread sampling of top 40 PGR schools. I applied to many of the American programs found on the link below:

Leiter Reports - Best PhD Programs for Political Philosophy

On the whole, my application seems to be strong: 3.65 GPA and nearly 3.8 philosophy GPA from a liberal arts college known for its philosophy program; GRE: 168V, 162Q, 4.5 AW; graduated with honors; attended a summer program at Oxford; received some fancy academic awards, etc. Additionally, I have a strong writing sample in my area of interest; letters from three tenured philosophy faculty (all of whom have PhD's from strong programs); a clear and precise SOP.

Now that I've completed my applications, it's hard to refrain from speculation about where I'll get accepted! The application process is very hard to predict. My main concern is GPA cutoffs that admissions teams may employ to narrow down applicants. I started in engineering and had some health problems during freshman year: for these reasons, I think my philosophy GPA is more indicative of my abilities than my overall GPA.

I'll just have to wait at this point I guess! I graduated last spring and am working towards getting a temporary job--tutoring, writing, etc.--to keep me busy and help me save some money until next fall. Additionally, I've been reading A LOT since graduation. I completed Plato's Republic and Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia, am working through Rawls's A Theory of Justice and Pogge's World Poverty and Human Rights, and have read many articles from academics in my area of interest (Thomas Christiano, Elizabeth Anderson, Mathias Risse, Derek Parfit). I just ordered a number of other philosophy books as well that I am eager to crack open, including Sidgwick's Methods of Ethics. I've also read a number of novels and plays: some Jane Austen, Virginia Woolf, Shakespeare, Philip Roth and so on. I've also developed a habit of reading the New Yorker front to back every week (my brother subscribes to the online edition).

Anyways, if anyone has any advice for me at this stage of the cycle I'd be glad to hear it! I'm very eager to hear back from programs, but it's difficult to know that I'm most likely one of around 100-300 other excellent applicants at most of the programs I'm applying to.

[goldenstardust11]

1 hour ago, dogman1212 said:

Anyways, if anyone has any advice for me at this stage of the cycle I'd be glad to hear it! I'm very eager to hear back from programs, but it's difficult to know that I'm most likely one of around 100-300 other excellent applicants at most of the programs I'm applying to.

First off, congratulations on finishing all those applications! It's awesome to be done so early and now it's out of your hands.

I'm with you on speculation being tempting but utterly fruitless. It is a fairly unpredictable process. (I applied to programs last year and I remember after I was done I just went into despair over not having a clue what was gonna happen and I spent entirely too much time on this site looking at threads from years' past trying to conceive of some kind of prediction. There is no predicting!)

So, my advice would definitely be don't do what I did. Try to the best of your ability to stop thinking about it altogether until you start to hear back for interviews (or better yet acceptances!). Instead, crack open some of those books (probably the nonfiction ones ). The one thing that did get me through was I watched like the entirety of Gilmore Girls over again and got into some pretty dreadful reality tv - just trying to empty my mind from the stress/all the work that apps take out of you.

If you're still in school, throw yourself into your studies. Go out with friends a LOT and do anything to keep your mind off of it - there's really nothing you can do now and that should ideally be liberating .

 

Good luck! 

[dogman1212]

On 11/25/2017 at 11:59 AM, goldenstardust11 said:

First off, congratulations on finishing all those applications! It's awesome to be done so early and now it's out of your hands.

I'm with you on speculation being tempting but utterly fruitless. It is a fairly unpredictable process. (I applied to programs last year and I remember after I was done I just went into despair over not having a clue what was gonna happen and I spent entirely too much time on this site looking at threads from years' past trying to conceive of some kind of prediction. There is no predicting!)

So, my advice would definitely be don't do what I did. Try to the best of your ability to stop thinking about it altogether until you start to hear back for interviews (or better yet acceptances!). Instead, crack open some of those books (probably the nonfiction ones ). The one thing that did get me through was I watched like the entirety of Gilmore Girls over again and got into some pretty dreadful reality tv - just trying to empty my mind from the stress/all the work that apps take out of you.

If you're still in school, throw yourself into your studies. Go out with friends a LOT and do anything to keep your mind off of it - there's really nothing you can do now and that should ideally be liberating .

 

Good luck! 

Thanks, goldenstardust11. It is funny that you mention Gilmore Girls: I discovered that showed during the summer and just finished the second season yesterday. The characters are very witty and I'm able to relate to some of the academic/life pressures that many of the characters experience. Great show.

I certainly think over-speculation is unfruitful. At this stage, I am mostly trying to get a sense of what to expect during decision season and how I can make informed decisions based on my options. It seems that most of the programs I'm applying to inform students of their status sometime between early February and April 15. I do plan to refer to the philosophy results page to understand where schools are at in the process. I'd imagine that it makes sense for an applicant to wait until hearing back from all of the programs they've applied to before making an ultimate decision of where to go. Also, if an applicant is fortunate enough to receive multiple offers, it would probably be smart to learn more about each program--especially through visits and communicating with faculty. After considering additional factors like location, funding/financial questions, placement, etc., the applicant will hopefully be in a position to decide which offer to take.

Let me know if anyone has any additional advice or perspective on preparing for decision season! I'm eager to learn anything I can at this point and I know that many of the people who browse this forum have been through the process before (or at least know someone who has).

 

[goldenstardust11]

40 minutes ago, dogman1212 said:

Thanks, goldenstardust11. It is funny that you mention Gilmore Girls: I discovered that showed during the summer and just finished the second season yesterday. The characters are very witty and I'm able to relate to some of the academic/life pressures that many of the characters experience. Great show.

I certainly think over-speculation is unfruitful. At this stage, I am mostly trying to get a sense of what to expect during decision season and how I can make informed decisions based on my options. It seems that most of the programs I'm applying to inform students of their status sometime between early February and April 15. I do plan to refer to the philosophy results page to understand where schools are at in the process. I'd imagine that it makes sense for an applicant to wait until hearing back from all of the programs they've applied to before making an ultimate decision of where to go. Also, if an applicant is fortunate enough to receive multiple offers, it would probably be smart to learn more about each program--especially through visits and communicating with faculty. After considering additional factors like location, funding/financial questions, placement, etc., the applicant will hopefully be in a position to decide which offer to take.

Let me know if anyone has any additional advice or perspective on preparing for decision season! I'm eager to learn anything I can at this point and I know that many of the people who browse this forum have been through the process before (or at least know someone who has).

 

Gotcha! 

Well, generally, I waited until I heard back from programs to research more into them. For instance, once I heard back from somewhere, I'd scour their department's website and make my list of questions that I wanted to ask during visits. That way, you're not pointlessly looking at information now for a program that you won't wind up considering down the road. Generally speaking, I'd recommend researching every program you get into upon hearing back and trying to visit as many as you can reasonably visit (should you be in the fortunate position of having multiple offers to consider!)

Visits made the ultimate decision for me, but the research I did helped me get the most out of those visits :). 

As far as what to look into - check out the faculty pages for a sense of the direction the department's heading - do a lot of the younger faculty tend to work in related areas that are different from the longer-standing faculty? Delicately ask current students or maybe a faculty member about the direction of the department. 

Research additional funding opportunities (languages, summer funding, conference travel) and start to make a comparison among the offers you receive - does one pay for health insurance? etc. All these factors add up. Also research cost of living/commute differences. 

During visits, check out faculty you're interested in working with and ask students who have experience working with them what they're like as an advisor. 

Check out your research and teaching obligations and talk to the students about how they balance their workload. Offers may be the same in terms of funding but one place might require much more work than another - check out what kind of work it is, whether you can envision yourself being happy doing it, and how you'd get it done!

I really think the best way to prepare now is to take a break from thinking about it, but hopefully these ideas will help once it comes to be time to start making decisions  

[lyellgeo]

So, not entirely related to what other people have been discussing, but someone on this year's Facebook page mentioned that people in their MA programs are applying to 30 (?) PhD programs on average.

I guess I have a couple of concerns about that (or at least why it might not be a great idea for most people to do that). First, if the trend to apply to more and more schools keeps increasing, then won't it just bog down admissions? I doubt most people can really find more than 10 schools that are a very close fit with their interests (unless these interests are super vague and not very well defined). (For me, as far as I can tell, it's more like 3 or 4 very close fits, with 6 to 7 other schools that are close enough to be reasonably worth applying to. )

Second, to the extent that the number of acceptable schools to apply to in order to be competitive keeps increasing (of course we might doubt whether applying to 30 rather than 20 schools actually significantly increases your chance of being accepted), isn't this just creating another income barrier to students who don't have thousands to spend on graduate applications? I guess I feel in some ways we're seeing a natural result of the extremely competitive aspect of PhD applications, so maybe we shouldn't surprised.

Anyway, my own sense is that, even though the admissions process has random aspects to it, someone who gets rejected by 20 different schools will (most likely) get rejected even if they apply to an additional 10 schools (the 10 of which would be even further outside their interests than the other 20). Applying to that many programs, assuming you can get in, may increase your options, but I doubt it would have a significant effect. 

I mean, while I guess I feel like anyone who just applies to 5 programs is probably taking a risk (even if they have a great application), I also feel like you are going to get diminishing returns from applying to schools beyond the ten or so that seem to best fit your interests. (Maybe you could extend this to about 15 or so in some cases.) And even if you do get accepted at one of those extra programs, you might not feel great there because you don't fit in very well in terms of research and overall fit.  

 

[philstudent1991]

4 hours ago, lyellgeo said:

So, not entirely related to what other people have been discussing, but someone on this year's Facebook page mentioned that people in their MA programs are applying to 30 (?) PhD programs on average.

I guess I have a couple of concerns about that (or at least why it might not be a great idea for most people to do that). First, if the trend to apply to more and more schools keeps increasing, then won't it just bog down admissions? I doubt most people can really find more than 10 schools that are a very close fit with their interests (unless these interests are super vague and not very well defined). (For me, as far as I can tell, it's more like 3 or 4 very close fits, with 6 to 7 other schools that are close enough to be reasonably worth applying to. )

Second, to the extent that the number of acceptable schools to apply to in order to be competitive keeps increasing (of course we might doubt whether applying to 30 rather than 20 schools actually significantly increases your chance of being accepted), isn't this just creating another income barrier to students who don't have thousands to spend on graduate applications? I guess I feel in some ways we're seeing a natural result of the extremely competitive aspect of PhD applications, so maybe we shouldn't surprised.

Anyway, my own sense is that, even though the admissions process has random aspects to it, someone who gets rejected by 20 different schools will (most likely) get rejected even if they apply to an additional 10 schools (the 10 of which would be even further outside their interests than the other 20). Applying to that many programs, assuming you can get in, may increase your options, but I doubt it would have a significant effect. 

I mean, while I guess I feel like anyone who just applies to 5 programs is probably taking a risk (even if they have a great application), I also feel like you are going to get diminishing returns from applying to schools beyond the ten or so that seem to best fit your interests. (Maybe you could extend this to about 15 or so in some cases.) And even if you do get accepted at one of those extra programs, you might not feel great there because you don't fit in very well in terms of research and overall fit.  

 

Yep, agreed with all this. I've never known someone who did 30. 15-20 though, sure.