2018 Philosophy Applicants, Assemble!

[dogman1212]

23 hours ago, lyellgeo said:

So, not entirely related to what other people have been discussing, but someone on this year's Facebook page mentioned that people in their MA programs are applying to 30 (?) PhD programs on average.

I guess I have a couple of concerns about that (or at least why it might not be a great idea for most people to do that). First, if the trend to apply to more and more schools keeps increasing, then won't it just bog down admissions? I doubt most people can really find more than 10 schools that are a very close fit with their interests (unless these interests are super vague and not very well defined). (For me, as far as I can tell, it's more like 3 or 4 very close fits, with 6 to 7 other schools that are close enough to be reasonably worth applying to. )

Second, to the extent that the number of acceptable schools to apply to in order to be competitive keeps increasing (of course we might doubt whether applying to 30 rather than 20 schools actually significantly increases your chance of being accepted), isn't this just creating another income barrier to students who don't have thousands to spend on graduate applications? I guess I feel in some ways we're seeing a natural result of the extremely competitive aspect of PhD applications, so maybe we shouldn't surprised.

Anyway, my own sense is that, even though the admissions process has random aspects to it, someone who gets rejected by 20 different schools will (most likely) get rejected even if they apply to an additional 10 schools (the 10 of which would be even further outside their interests than the other 20). Applying to that many programs, assuming you can get in, may increase your options, but I doubt it would have a significant effect. 

I mean, while I guess I feel like anyone who just applies to 5 programs is probably taking a risk (even if they have a great application), I also feel like you are going to get diminishing returns from applying to schools beyond the ten or so that seem to best fit your interests. (Maybe you could extend this to about 15 or so in some cases.) And even if you do get accepted at one of those extra programs, you might not feel great there because you don't fit in very well in terms of research and overall fit.  

 

I think both of the inferences you make are fair:

Depending on how admissions teams process their applications, they may indeed be bogged down. I imagine most programs have processes, schemes, metrics, and cutoffs that they use to minimize applicants and eventually select students. Those programs that don't employ these sorts of methods may need to start, and those that already do may need to make their methods more sophisticated to prepare for potentially up to 300+ applications.

Also, yes, if it's the case that applying to more schools is to a student's advantage and the student can't afford to apply to an optimally high number of schools--which, I think many on this forum would argue isn't much higher than 15 or 20--then this student would be at a disadvantage. Personally, I have only applied to around a dozen programs because beyond that number it becomes difficult to find desirable schools with solid faculty working in my area of interest.

In the end, it's to the advantage of graduate programs to make offers to the most promising students, and it's to their advantage to use whatever metrics or vetting processes accomplish that goal. Maybe it would be simpler if philosophers hired economists to simplify the entire process like NYC did for their public school system.

Edited December 1, 2017 by dogman1212

[lyellgeo]

On 11/25/2017 at 9:42 AM, dogman1212 said:

I figured I would post an update. I just completed a dozen or so applications to PhD programs and a few MA apps. My main area of interest is political philosophy. All of the PhD programs I applied to have strong faculty working in political philosophy. The programs I applied to are a fairly even-spread sampling of top 40 PGR schools. I applied to many of the American programs found on the link below:

Leiter Reports - Best PhD Programs for Political Philosophy

On the whole, my application seems to be strong: 3.65 GPA and nearly 3.8 philosophy GPA from a liberal arts college known for its philosophy program; GRE: 168V, 162Q, 4.5 AW; graduated with honors; attended a summer program at Oxford; received some fancy academic awards, etc. Additionally, I have a strong writing sample in my area of interest; letters from three tenured philosophy faculty (all of whom have PhD's from strong programs); a clear and precise SOP.

Now that I've completed my applications, it's hard to refrain from speculation about where I'll get accepted! The application process is very hard to predict. My main concern is GPA cutoffs that admissions teams may employ to narrow down applicants. I started in engineering and had some health problems during freshman year: for these reasons, I think my philosophy GPA is more indicative of my abilities than my overall GPA.

I'll just have to wait at this point I guess! I graduated last spring and am working towards getting a temporary job--tutoring, writing, etc.--to keep me busy and help me save some money until next fall. Additionally, I've been reading A LOT since graduation. I completed Plato's Republic and Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia, am working through Rawls's A Theory of Justice and Pogge's World Poverty and Human Rights, and have read many articles from academics in my area of interest (Thomas Christiano, Elizabeth Anderson, Mathias Risse, Derek Parfit). I just ordered a number of other philosophy books as well that I am eager to crack open, including Sidgwick's Methods of Ethics. I've also read a number of novels and plays: some Jane Austen, Virginia Woolf, Shakespeare, Philip Roth and so on. I've also developed a habit of reading the New Yorker front to back every week (my brother subscribes to the online edition).

Anyways, if anyone has any advice for me at this stage of the cycle I'd be glad to hear it! I'm very eager to hear back from programs, but it's difficult to know that I'm most likely one of around 100-300 other excellent applicants at most of the programs I'm applying to.

Our applications seem like they should be similar in a lot of ways (at least in terms of numbers). I have a 3.6ish GPA (3.85 major), 167 V 164 Q 5.0 AW GRE, and also a summer abroad at Cambridge (one of the professors there wrote one of my letters). (My school isn't really known for its philosophy program, however, and it's a state school.) 

I'm mostly applying to continental-type programs, some more well known than others. From what I've read about department websites, I doubt anyone will throw out either of our applications based on a GPA cutoff, even at some of the more competitive schools. I would think that your other scores (like GRE), plus the international experience and so on, would be enough for them to look at your application seriously. But that's just my best guess, as I'm mostly in the same situation. 

 

[switzPHILO]

I'm currently in my 5th year of a philosophy major at UWO (came back to improve my marks and because I screwed up my grad school applications last year), and I'll be applying to Canadian MA programs this winter. My 3rd and 4th year GPA is 82 and in my 4th year my philosophy courses GPA was 87. I have a strong writing sample, pretty good letters (I think), and pretty good extra curricular to go along with a decent CV. Also, my grades from first year to fourth are in a strong upward trend. This year I'm only taking high level philosophy courses (3.5 credits) and should finish with a GPA somewhere in the 80s. 

I was wondering if I had a good chance at being admitted to the grad programs I'm applying to, which are UWO, McMaster, Dalhousie, and York (MA programs in philosophy). Thanks in advance for the replies.

[maxhgns]

1 hour ago, switzPHILO said:

I'm currently in my 5th year of a philosophy major at UWO (came back to improve my marks and because I screwed up my grad school applications last year), and I'll be applying to Canadian MA programs this winter. My 3rd and 4th year GPA is 82 and in my 4th year my philosophy courses GPA was 87. I have a strong writing sample, pretty good letters (I think), and pretty good extra curricular to go along with a decent CV. Also, my grades from first year to fourth are in a strong upward trend. This year I'm only taking high level philosophy courses (3.5 credits) and should finish with a GPA somewhere in the 80s. 

I was wondering if I had a good chance at being admitted to the grad programs I'm applying to, which are UWO, McMaster, Dalhousie, and York (MA programs in philosophy). Thanks in advance for the replies.

Of course you have a chance. Your grades won't get your application tossed out of hand. Just remember to focus on your writing sample and cover letter.

Why are you targeting those four MAs, though? Why not some of the other MA programs in Canada--or, indeed, in Ontario?

[switzPHILO]

11 hours ago, maxhgns said:

Of course you have a chance. Your grades won't get your application tossed out of hand. Just remember to focus on your writing sample and cover letter.

Why are you targeting those four MAs, though? Why not some of the other MA programs in Canada--or, indeed, in Ontario?

My research interests are in legal philosophy, ethics, and metaethics. Im from London, Ont, and so finding a program in Ontario would be optimal. The four programs I've listed suit my reseaerch interests, and are in Ontario (except for Dalhousie, which I chose because they have an exceptional ethics program, which a few of my profs were either enrolled in or worked at, and since I have a few friends living in Nova Scotia that could help me move out there).

[maxhgns]

12 hours ago, switzPHILO said:

My research interests are in legal philosophy, ethics, and metaethics. Im from London, Ont, and so finding a program in Ontario would be optimal. The four programs I've listed suit my reseaerch interests, and are in Ontario (except for Dalhousie, which I chose because they have an exceptional ethics program, which a few of my profs were either enrolled in or worked at, and since I have a few friends living in Nova Scotia that could help me move out there).

Have you considered Toronto (Toronto has one of the strongest phil. of law and metaethics concentrations in the world) or Queen's (by far the strongest ethics and applied ethics contingent in the country, and very strong in phil. of law too)?

 

[switzPHILO]

11 hours ago, maxhgns said:

Have you considered Toronto (Toronto has one of the strongest phil. of law and metaethics concentrations in the world) or Queen's (by far the strongest ethics and applied ethics contingent in the country, and very strong in phil. of law too)?

 

I've definitely considered Toronto, but in light of my grades I didn't think I would be considered a competitive candidate... I've also considered Queens, but wasn't aware that they were as strong as you suggest they are. Do you think I have a chance at being admitted into these institutions? 

[maxhgns]

2 hours ago, switzPHILO said:

I've definitely considered Toronto, but in light of my grades I didn't think I would be considered a competitive candidate... I've also considered Queens, but wasn't aware that they were as strong as you suggest they are. Do you think I have a chance at being admitted into these institutions? 

Yes. Your grades are fine.

Your chances of getting into an MA program are small, into a PhD program are slimmer, and getting a job are close to nonexistent. But that's got nothing to do with your grades; the competition is just really, really fierce. Don't take yourself out of the running, let the admissions committee do that.

At the MA level, you're competing against dozens of people. At the PhD level, a couple hundred. For jobs, between six and twelve hundred.

[downwardabsolute]

Took the GRE, my unofficial verbal score is 159 (and 165 on quantitative if that's relevant). How bad is that? Will it most likely keep me out of one of the better masters programs? 

Edited December 23, 2017 by downwardabsolute

[kretschmar]

20 hours ago, downwardabsolute said:

Took the GRE, my unofficial verbal score is 159 (and 165 on quantitative if that's relevant). How bad is that? Will it most likely keep me out of one of the better masters programs? 

GSU's published admissions numbers suggest that your score is within the acceptable range. No way that it will bar you from consideration. Nor will it be particularly helpful. 

[lyellgeo]

Anyone have any strategies for dealing with the wait? 

Over the last week or so I feel like I've read way too many old threads on GradCafe (everything back through page 20 or so), the Who Got In threads from a few years back, and a bunch of old posts on Leiter's blog. Even worse, however, is the habit browsing random department websites (e.g. GSU) and reading the student policies and handbooks, random faculty bios, going over parts of my application (over and over again), and reading old essays from faculty. I guess the last one isn't too bad, but the rest don't seem like healthy strategies.

If I can somehow avoid the grad websites for a while, I plan to i) try to do some skiing ii) find some things to read that aren't in my "AOS"—I want to read more of Irigaray's work, as well as some other texts I haven't gotten around to, like Bergson's Matter and Memory. I also want to have some time to work through Kant and Hume again, though at my own pace and in a more relaxed way.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by lyellgeo

[soproperlybasic]

7 hours ago, lyellgeo said:

Anyone have any strategies for dealing with the wait? 

Over the last week or so I feel like I've read way too many old threads on GradCafe (everything back through page 20 or so), the Who Got In threads from a few years back, and a bunch of old posts on Leiter's blog. Even worse, however, is the habit browsing random department websites (e.g. GSU) and reading the student policies and handbooks, random faculty bios, going over parts of my application (over and over again), and reading old essays from faculty. I guess the last one isn't too bad, but the rest don't seem like healthy strategies.

If I can somehow avoid the grad websites for a while, I plan to i) try to do some skiing ii) find some things to read that aren't in my "AOS"—I want to read more of Irigaray's work, as well as some other texts I haven't gotten around to, like Bergson's Matter and Memory. I also want to have some time to work through Kant and Hume again, though at my own pace and in a more relaxed way.

I've been doing the exact same thing! Going back through the results section and looking at people's stats, reading pages and pages back into Acceptance/Rejection/Venting threads from last year and the year before, spending sad amounts of time reading old Leiter posts, and complaining about editing my writing sample over winter break to everyone who will listen. I'm truly a nightmare to be around I think...

I've been wanting to take the time to do more relaxed reading as well now that I'll be taking classes in my other major to round out my last semester! I have a folder of stuff I want to read about Heidegger and random analytic stuff in Phil. Religion...

Since you mention Hume, I actually just read the Enquiry in my Early Modern class in the fall. I love his prose...and the closing paragraph is SAVAGE.

Edited December 31, 2017 by soproperlybasic

[kretschmar]

On 12/30/2017 at 3:09 PM, lyellgeo said:

Anyone have any strategies for dealing with the wait?

 

Admissions is like a ramp jump: intense acceleration followed by weightlessness.

But what would you do, in terms of study and preparation in philosophy, if you found out you were admitted to your top program? For my part, I would be studying as hard as I could, in order to be ready to start strong in the fall. And if I really believe I belong in such a program, hadn't I better be doing as much anyway?

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by kretschmar

[PhilosophyMatters]

who's applying from UK? And who's applying to Oxford?

[quinessloopypun]

On 12/31/2017 at 2:09 AM, lyellgeo said:

Anyone have any strategies for dealing with the wait? 

Over the last week or so I feel like I've read way too many old threads on GradCafe (everything back through page 20 or so), the Who Got In threads from a few years back, and a bunch of old posts on Leiter's blog. Even worse, however, is the habit browsing random department websites (e.g. GSU) and reading the student policies and handbooks, random faculty bios, going over parts of my application (over and over again), and reading old essays from faculty. I guess the last one isn't too bad, but the rest don't seem like healthy strategies.

If I can somehow avoid the grad websites for a while, I plan to i) try to do some skiing ii) find some things to read that aren't in my "AOS"—I want to read more of Irigaray's work, as well as some other texts I haven't gotten around to, like Bergson's Matter and Memory. I also want to have some time to work through Kant and Hume again, though at my own pace and in a more relaxed way.
 

In the same boat here.

My take was, if you intend to keep on what you have been doing (i.e. philosophy), then I take it that these are the best times to do some deadline-free, on-your-own-dime, no-strings-attached reading and research. Essentially, I had been at my writing sample for more than a year (M.A. thesis) and I am now pretty beat and exhausted on the subject, even though I like it to the heart still. I took a break from the subject and started exploring every which way. Normally, I am a philosophy of language, formal semantics/pragmatics and mathematical logic/truth person, but nowadays I am mostly reading metaphysics.

Also these may be the last times you can binge-watch stuff offhand, since, if you get in, you won't have much time and if you don't, then other plans will dominate. So, treat yourself a little.

Edited January 3, 2018 by quinessloopypun

[thehegeldialectic]

On 12/30/2017 at 6:09 PM, lyellgeo said:

Anyone have any strategies for dealing with the wait? 

 

 

My strategy is to stay as busy as possible worrying about other things. Going to be booking myself with tons of reading groups, conferences, and extra work.

[Scoots]

12 hours ago, PhilosophyMatters said:

who's applying from UK? And who's applying to Oxford?

Both! I’m just finishing off my Oxford application now. Are you applying to the US too?

[PhilosophyMatters]

5 hours ago, Scoots said:

Both! I’m just finishing off my Oxford application now. Are you applying to the US too?

That’s awesome. No just the UK. I’m Iranian so can’t study in America thanks to Trump  

Can I ask if you applying before finishing your degree or after? And your average? 

I’m midway in my degree but my average was only 61% last year. I will need 73% this year to get the minimum but I’m not applying after finishing my degree I’m applying this January. 

[Scoots]

On 1/4/2018 at 11:15 AM, PhilosophyMatters said:

That’s awesome. No just the UK. I’m Iranian so can’t study in America thanks to Trump  

Can I ask if you applying before finishing your degree or after? And your average? 

I’m midway in my degree but my average was only 61% last year. I will need 73% this year to get the minimum but I’m not applying after finishing my degree I’m applying this January. 

Ah, of course. Sorry to hear that :/

I finished my degree a couple of years back, and I’ve been working since. I got a first, but not a spectacular one. Best of luck getting your 73%!

Are you applying to anywhere other than Oxford? And what areas of philosophy do you want to specialize in? Oxford seems to have people working in pretty much everything, which is cool. 

[kretschmar]

How do you thank a recommender? There seems to be a view out there that there should be no gifts of any kind, so as to avoid the appearance of remuneration. But it seems insufficient to just write a note! These people have done a lot of work for me.... 

[hector549]

2 hours ago, kretschmar said:

How do you thank a recommender? There seems to be a view out there that there should be no gifts of any kind, so as to avoid the appearance of remuneration. But it seems insufficient to just write a note! These people have done a lot of work for me.... 

I know it might feel weird to just say "thank you," or to write a note, but that's really all that's necessary. It's part of the job! If you're close enough with them to take them out for a celebratory drink after you get accepted, you could do something like that. That's what I did, but it's not necessary.

[Duns Eith]

3 hours ago, kretschmar said:

How do you thank a recommender? There seems to be a view out there that there should be no gifts of any kind, so as to avoid the appearance of remuneration. But it seems insufficient to just write a note! These people have done a lot of work for me.... 

I wrote a thank-you card and bought a high quality mug with the logo of the school I will enroll in for each of them.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Duns Eith

[goldenstardust11]

11 hours ago, kretschmar said:

How do you thank a recommender? There seems to be a view out there that there should be no gifts of any kind, so as to avoid the appearance of remuneration. But it seems insufficient to just write a note! These people have done a lot of work for me.... 

I wrote a thank you note and gave them each a couple bars of organic dark chocolate. I intentionally did this before I had heard back from any schools (but after their letters were submitted) so they got thanked for their efforts regardless of the end result.

Edited January 8, 2018 by goldenstardust11

[kretschmar]

Thanks guys. Borrowing these ideas, I will take my recommenders out for a celebratory drink, which will be served in a logo mug from my chosen university, and crafted from organic dark chocolate. 

Fabulous.

[kretschmar]

I received a call this morning from an admissions director at one of my MA programs. He asked me if I would like to be considered for their PhD, which is funded (whereas the MA, it turns out, was not). He noted that the committee "quite liked" my writing sample and that if I didn't wish to remain in the program beyond the MA, that was no problem.

This seems like a pretty good sign. What do you think?